Lion Bear Leopard

[Marilyn C]

That is silly! The wings plucked off and then these have morphed into Eagle? Did God say that? Or you make it up?

Like I said, speculation! Bad interpreation.

The vision is pictorial. And so was the vision of the great Image. You don`t seem troubled to call a king a Head of a man, and Rome, legs.

Even Jesus was called a lamb. So get real, this is pictorial language.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The vision is pictorial. And so was the vision of the great Image. You don`t seem troubled to call a king a Head of a man, and Rome, legs.

Even Jesus was called a lamb. So get real, this is pictorial language.

LOL. Would you consider lamb as a beast or emblem if it's wool "plunker" off the lion? If God did not say that, your doctrine is wrong.

Think about it. If the eagle wings plucked off a lion, where did it go? To the floor? Or Eagle came and pick it up and put on its back and become the United States? Did God say that? No? So should we trust your "speculation"?

Of course not!

 

[Marilyn C]

LOL. Would you consider lamb as a beast or emblem if it's wool "plunker" off the lion? If God did not say that, your doctrine is wrong.

Think about it. If the eagle wings plucked off a lion, where did it go? To the floor? Or Eagle came and pick it up and put on its back and become the United States? Did God say that? No? So should we trust your "speculation"?

Of course not!

It seems you would dismiss all of God`s pictorial representations.

 

[TribulationSigns]

It seems you would dismiss all of God`s pictorial representations.

No, you do not get it. You need to get God's pictorial representations based on HIS WORD, not your speculation. Your need to compare Scripture with Scripture.

For example, look at the four beasts:

Revelation 4:6-9 KJV
[6] And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
[7] And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.
[8] And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
[9] And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,

Tell me do you think the flying eagle before the throne is the United States here in Revelation 4:7? What is God's definition of Eagle in Scripture? What does eagle's wings of Revelation 12:14 and Daniel 7:4 represent? Do you know how to search for in the Scripture or are you going to say, "Oh it must be the united states because the eagle is its emblem of the nation." Do you find that in Scripture?

 

[Marilyn C]

No, you do not get it. You need to get God's pictorial representations based on HIS WORD, not your speculation. Your need to compare Scripture with Scripture.

For example, look at the four beasts:

Revelation 4:6-9 KJV
[6] And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
[7] And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.
[8] And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
[9] And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,

Tell me do you think the flying eagle before the throne is the United States here in Revelation 4:7? What is God's definition of Eagle in Scripture? Do you know how to search for in the Scripture? Show me.

And are you telling me that the beast of Dan. 7 are before God`s throne saying `Holy, Holy, Holy.` Come on now let`s ne sensible in this discussion and not get silly.

The 4 living beings around the throne are the Lord`s four aspects of ministries -

1. Lion - rulership.
2. Calf - sacrifice
3. Man - mediator
4. Eagle - creator

 

[TribulationSigns]

The 4 living beings around the throne are the Lord`s four aspects of ministries -

1. Lion - rulership.
2. Calf - sacrifice
3. Man - mediator
4. Eagle - creator

You have presented some personal opinion or tradition on Daniel 7 with absolutely no Biblical validation or scriptural support for any of it. You need to understand that a biblical interpretation requires Biblical reference, support, or foundation. Not our guesswork. For example, you insisted that the lion must mean the monarchy of England with wings plucked out as the United States. God did not tell us how to find the interpretation that way. We go to Scripture just like you did with four living beings. The answer is RIGHT IN THE BIBLE. But you made something up for four beasts of Daniel 7. It is by definition not a Biblical interpretation. Period.

Anyway, The four beast or living creatures are the aspects of God through Christ:

1.) Christ is the eternal promise of the Lion of the tribe of Judah
2.) Christ is the calf or Lamb slain from the foundation of the world
3.) Christ is the Man who would take away the sins of the world
4.) Christ is the eagle, the protector of all His people under His wings.

Likewise with four beasts of Daniel 7. They are to be understood as the ASPECT of Satan rulership throughout the time that we need to search out for its meaning WITH SCRIPTURE. Not world history, looking for certain countries or empires fit with prophecies. Selah!

Now you try again and find God's definition IN SCRIPTURE for the four beasts of Daniel 7.

1.) Lion = _______________(Hint: Not England/USA)
2.) Bear = ______________(Hint: Not Soviet/Russia)
3.) Leopard = ____________(Hint: Not EU)
4.) Strong and Terrible = _________________

 

[TribulationSigns]

Beast 1: The US/Great Britain alliance of the last century GB=Lion US=Eagle
Beast 2: Russia=Bear
Beast 3: The leopard beast is the only one that isn't directly represented in the present, although some suggest this may be a New World Order style power rising as an amalgam of several sources. Also interestingly Pakistan and Afghanistan have leopards as symbols, so possibility of a Muslim alliance being #3 works.
Beast 4: The description fits a dragon. China=dragon.

What? DO you know what is biblical exegesis?

Did God see the dragon as China in Scripture? Do you realize that God has already defined the dragon as Satan that old serpent? Why did you see it as China? China did not exist in the garden of Eden.

 

[Marilyn C]

You have presented some personal opinion or tradition on Daniel 7 with absolutely no Biblical validation or scriptural support for any of it. You need to understand that a biblical interpretation requires Biblical reference, support, or foundation. Not our guesswork. For example, you insisted that the lion must mean the monarchy of England with wings plucked out as the United States. God did not tell us how to find the interpretation that way. We go to Scripture just like you did with four living beings. The answer is RIGHT IN THE BIBLE. But you made something up for four beasts of Daniel 7. It is by definition not a Biblical interpretation. Period.

Anyway, The four beast or living creatures are the aspects of God through Christ:

1.) Christ is the eternal promise of the Lion of the tribe of Judah
2.) Christ is the calf or Lamb slain from the foundation of the world
3.) Christ is the Man who would take away the sins of the world
4.) Christ is the eagle, the protector of all His people under His wings.

Likewise with four beasts of Daniel 7. They are to be understood as the ASPECT of Satan rulership throughout the time that we need to search out for its meaning WITH SCRIPTURE. Not world history, looking for certain countries or empires fit with prophecies. Selah!

Now you try again and find God's definition IN SCRIPTURE for the four beasts of Daniel 7.

1.) Lion = _______________(Hint: Not England/USA)
2.) Bear = ______________(Hint: Not Soviet/Russia)
3.) Leopard = ____________(Hint: Not EU)
4.) Strong and Terrible = _________________

Actually the 4 living creatures, the 4 aspects of Christ`s ministries are found in the gospels and the book of Revelation.

Matthew - the lion, King.
Mark - the ox/calf, Heir. (sacrifice)
Luke - the Man, Mediator.
John - the Eagle, deity.

Then the 4 visions in revelation carry through these to their fulfilment.

Vision 1. Christ the Head of the Body.
Vision 2. Christ the Heir of the World.
Vision 3. Christ the Mediator of the new Covenant.
Vision 4. Christ the Judge and creator of all things new.

 

[Marilyn C]

_

Here is homework for you to do:

1.) What are the four winds of the heaven represent?
2.) What does the great sea represent?
3.) What does the Lion represent?
4.) Eagle's wings represent?
5.) Why do the Eagle's wings plucked and make the lion stand up upon the feet as a man?
6.) Why is man's heart was given to a lion?
7.) What does the Bear represent?
8.) Why was the bear raised up itself on one side and has its three ribs in its mouth? What does it mean?
9.) What does the Leopard represent? What do four wings of a fowl represent? Four heads? What dominion was given to it?
10.) Why is the fourth beast dreadful and terrible? Why is it different from first beasts?
11.) What do the ten horns represent?

 

[TribulationSigns]

Actually the 4 living creatures, the 4 aspects of Christ`s ministries are found in the gospels and the book of Revelation.

Matthew - the lion, King.
Mark - the ox/calf, Heir. (sacrifice)
Luke - the Man, Mediator.
John - the Eagle, deity.

False!

Do you realize that the same four living creatures found in Ezekiel 1:20?

Ezekiel 1:19-20 KJV
[19] And when the living creatures went, the wheels went by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up.
[20] Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.

Are they Matthew, Mark, Luke and John in the wheels? Why do these four living creatures follow the Spirit wherever He goes? Who were the armies in heaven that Revelation says followed Christ wherever he went? Is there any correlation validated by Scripture? Most important of all, why are these four living creatures following and not leading and redeemed by the blood of the Lamb? Is it because they are not God and are not the four gospels as you surmise?

Let read Ezekiel again:

Ezekiel 1:10-12 KJV
[10] As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle.
[11] Thus were their faces: and their wings were stretched upward; two wings of every one were joined one to another, and two covered their bodies.
[12] And they went every one straight forward: whither the spirit was to go, they went; and they turned not when they went.

They went every one straight forward, not to the left hand nor to the right. And wherever the spirit went, that's where they went, and they did not turn as they went. God doesn't follow the Spirit, He is the Spirit that His people follow. Remember in Revelation the woman, who are God's redeemed people, was given Eagles wings to protect her from the Devil? In fact, in all aspects, this doesn't equate to the four gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, but to the universally redeemed of God in the Kingdom of heaven.

Revelation 5:8-9

• "And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
• And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;"

The four living creatures sung this song saying "they" were redeemed from every people. Can the four gospels sing? Are the four Apostles redeemed from every nation? Was Christ Himself redeemed so He would be singing as these four living creatures? No. So then, I would say this supports these four living creatures representing neither God specifically nor the gospels, but those in Christ redeemed to God by the blood of the Lamb.

Sorry, you remained refuted, as I have provided a biblical answer here! You need to LEARN how to compare Scripture with Scripture as I have done above.

 

[Marilyn C]

False!

Do you realize that the same four living creatures found in Ezekiel 1:20?

Ezekiel 1:19-20 KJV
[19] And when the living creatures went, the wheels went by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up.
[20] Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.

Are they Matthew, Mark, Luke and John in the wheels? Why do these four living creatures follow the Spirit wherever He goes? Who were the armies in heaven that Revelation says followed Christ wherever he went? Is there any correlation validated by Scripture? Most important of all, why are these four living creatures following and not leading and redeemed by the blood of the Lamb? Is it because they are not God and are not the four gospels as you surmise?

Let read Ezekiel again:

Ezekiel 1:10-12 KJV
[10] As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle.
[11] Thus were their faces: and their wings were stretched upward; two wings of every one were joined one to another, and two covered their bodies.
[12] And they went every one straight forward: whither the spirit was to go, they went; and they turned not when they went.

They went every one straight forward, not to the left hand nor to the right. And wherever the spirit went, that's where they went, and they did not turn as they went. God doesn't follow the Spirit, He is the Spirit that His people follow. Remember in Revelation the woman, who are God's redeemed people, was given Eagles wings to protect her from the Devil? In fact, in all aspects, this doesn't equate to the four gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, but to the universally redeemed of God in the Kingdom of heaven.

Revelation 5:8-9

• "And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
• And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;"

The four living creatures sung this song saying "they" were redeemed from every people. Can the four gospels sing? Are the four Apostles redeemed from every nation? Was Christ Himself redeemed so He would be singing as these four living creatures? No. So then, I would say this supports these four living creatures representing neither God specifically nor the gospels, but those in Christ redeemed to God by the blood of the Lamb.

Sorry, you remained refuted, as I have provided a biblical answer here! You need to LEARN how to compare Scripture with Scripture as I have done above.

The gospels show the Lord in those aspects, TS. You tend to over react instead of asking for more information as we should do in our discussions.

And yes I do see the 4 living beings mentioned in Ezekiel. They are the 4 ministries of Christ that outwork His purposes through the earth. Thus we see the picture of the Spirit of God moving, of the `wheels within wheels.`

In Rev. 4 we are shown the 4 ministries of Christ (4 living beings) who are in the midst of the throne, and around the throne, with `eyes in front and behind,` signifying all wisdom and knowledge.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The gospels show the Lord in those aspects, TS. You tend to over react instead of asking for more information as we should do in our discussions.

And yes I do see the 4 living beings mentioned in Ezekiel. They are the 4 ministries of Christ that outwork His purposes through the earth. Thus we see the picture of the Spirit of God moving, of the `wheels within wheels.`

In Rev. 4 we are shown the 4 ministries of Christ (4 living beings) who are in the midst of the throne, and around the throne, with `eyes in front and behind,` signifying all wisdom and knowledge.

I didn’t overreact. I was the one who actually quote verses and explain them. You didn’t. You just throw in your opinions and private interpretation without scripture reference or foundation.

I prefer to deal with someone who knows how to quote scripture and explain it and prove it by comparing with scripture instead of making assumptions by linking verses with world news and history book. Based on your posts here, you obviously lacks biblical exegesis and hermeneutics.

I’m done with this thread. Good night.