Lies about the Sabbath.

[LarryP2]

Why is it that you have to be ridiculous?

Not "ridiculous." "Accurate."

Did Jesus allow men to suffer on the Sabbath?

No. But Adventists do it all the time. See pasted excerpt.

Do you really think that SDA's would see person in need on the Sabbath and refuse to help because it is Sabbath?

Yes, as a matter of fact, I DO! And right HERE is the kind of unctuous, Pharisaic, self-righteous, gloating trash Sophrosyne is referring to:

"In silent horror, I listened to my Seventh-day Adventist pastor’s mini-sermon as I watched blood trickle down the little Boy Scout’s leg. After crashing his bicycle, the boy had timidly approached our picnic table. In a weak, shaky voice he begged, “I lost my group. Could you catch me up to my group?” Seeing this as a “teachable moment” my pastor responded to the young lad by gently putting his hand on the boy’s shoulder.

“Saturday is the Sabbath,” the pastor said with an enlightened smile and began a short homily explaining why the fourth commandment kept us from helping him. However, he offered to pray for him. To this day, I am baffled as to why the pastor refused the Boy Scout, unless it was the Adventist taboo of riding bikes on Sabbath. That experience symbolized my frustrations growing up in the SDA church."

From Prophetess to Pope – Conversion Story of Arthur and Teresa Beem | The Coming Home Network

Now let's reread the quote that sparked your rant and see if you can now comprehend what Sophrosyne was saying:

If your neighbor needs your help and suffers when you refuse to help him are you loving him or not? The thing here is you are using the Sabbath as an excuse to ignore your neighbor.

Now are you getting it?

 

[VictorC]

That is a LIE! There is no promotion of righteousness by law!

So much of your post is contrary to Scripture and various members pointing this out to you already - and instead of contemplative conversation you simply repeat errors attained by abusing the Word of God and making up notions foreign to His Word.

But at the very least it should be pointed out that you go out of your way to call the truth pointed out in another member's post "a LIE", and once again misrepresent Adventism -and your own previous claims- after it was shown to you.

Who said that they is salvation by the law? We are not saved by the Ten commandments. But I am not saved when I steal, and lie and kill.

With a short paragraph consisting of three sentences, you've contradicted yourself and show that your 'salvation' depends on compliance with the old covenant Law. You're attempting to save yourself via works of the flesh and you know you're lying on a public forum.

Review your own statement claiming that "I am not saved when I lie".
No one needs to refute your statements when you condemn yourself.

Besides, you've already seen plenty of quotes from the Pen of Liability proving that Adventist soteriology is based on compliance to the old covenant.

Testimonies for the Church
Volume Two, page 693, paragraph 2
Chapter Title: No Probation After Christ Comes

As we have followed down the chain of prophecy, revealed truth for our time has been clearly seen and explained. We are accountable for the privileges that we enjoy and for the light that shines upon our pathway. Those who lived in past generations were accountable for the light which was permitted to shine upon them. Their minds were exercised in regard to different points of Scripture which tested them. But they did not understand the truths which we do. They were not responsible for the light which they did not have. They had the Bible, as we have; but the time for the unfolding of special truth in relation to the closing scenes of this earth's history is during the last generations that shall live upon the earth. Special truths have been adapted to the conditions of the generations as they have existed. The present truth, which is a test to the people of this generation, was not a test to the people of generations far back. If the light which now shines upon us in regard to the Sabbath of the fourth commandment had been given to the generations in the past, God would have held them accountable for that light. When the temple of God was opened in heaven, John saw in holy vision a class of people whose attention was arrested and who were looking with reverential awe at the ark, which contained the law of God. The special test upon the fourth commandment did not come until after the temple of God was opened in heaven. Those who died before the light was given upon the law of God and the claims of the fourth commandment were not guilty of the sin of violating the seventh-day Sabbath. The wisdom and mercy of God in dispensing light and knowledge at the proper time, as the people need it, is unsearchable. Previous to His coming to judge the world in righteousness, He sends forth a warning to arouse the people and call their attention to their neglect of the fourth commandment, that they may be enlightened, and may repent of their transgression of His law, and prove their allegiance to the great Lawgiver. He has made provision that all may be holy and happy if they choose. Sufficient light has been given to this generation, that we may learn what our duties and privileges are, and enjoy the precious and solemn truths in their simplicity and power.​

To show Ellen's dependence on 1844, I will include this quote from Early Writings, Pg 42-43:

Sabbath, March 24, 1849, we had a sweet and very interesting meeting with the brethren at Topsham, Maine. The Holy Ghost was poured out upon us, and I was taken off in the Spirit to the city of the living God. Then I was shown that the commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ relating to the shut door could not be separated, and that the time for the commandments of God to shine out with all their importance, and for God’s people to be tried on the Sabbath truth, was when the door was opened in the most holy place in the heavenly sanctuary, where the ark is, in which are contained the ten commandments. This door was not opened until the mediation of Jesus was finished in the holy place of the sanctuary in 1844. Then Jesus rose up and shut the door of the holy place, and opened the door into the most holy, and passed within the second veil, where He now stands by the ark, and where the faith of Israel now reaches.

I saw that Jesus had shut the door of the holy place, and no man can open it; and that He had opened the door into the most holy, and no man can shut it (Revelation 3:7, 8); [see page 86. See also appendix.] and that since Jesus has opened the door into the most holy place, which contains the ark, the commandments have been shining out to God’s people, and they are being tested on the Sabbath question.

I saw that the present test on the Sabbath could not come until the mediation of Jesus in the holy place was finished and He had passed within the second veil; therefore Christians who fell asleep before the door was opened into the most holy, when the midnight cry was finished, at the seventh month, 1844, and who had not kept the true Sabbath, now rest in hope; for they had not the light and the test on the Sabbath which we now have since that door was opened. I saw that Satan was tempting some of God’s people on this point. Because so many good Christians have fallen asleep in the triumphs of faith and have not kept the true Sabbath, they were doubting about its being a test for us now.​

Ellen White's soteriology revolves around the Sabbath she failed to keep Holy according the Law that ordained it. This is evident in these quotes provided below that show the Adventist formula for 'salvation' to be compliance with the old covenant from Mount Sinai you don't acknowledge God's redemption from:

No one is saved who is a transgressor of the law of God, which is the foundation of his government in heaven and in earth. {RH June 17, 1890, par. 8}

It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord. God says: "Them that honor Me I will honor." 1 Samuel 2:30. {6T 356.4}

But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}

No one who disregards the fourth commandment, after becoming enlightened in regard to the claims of the Sabbath, can be held guiltless in the sight of God. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 14}

All will be judged according to the light that has shone upon them. If they have light upon the Sabbath, they cannot be saved in rejecting that light.{HS 234.3}

As persons become convinced from the Scriptures that the claims of the fourth commandment are still binding, the question is often raised, Is it necessary in order to secure salvation that we keep the Sabbath? This is a question of grave importance. If the light has shone from the word of God, if the message has been presented to men, as it was to Pharaoh, and they refuse to heed that message, if they reject the light, they refuse to obey God, and cannot be saved in their disobedience. {RH, January 5, 1886 par. 2}

“God requires of all His subjects obedience, entire obedience to all His commandments. He demands now as ever perfect righteousness as the only title to heaven. Christ is our hope and our refuge. His righteousness is imputed only to the obedient!” (Review & Herald, Sept. 21, 1886)

"Christ does not lessen the claims of the law. In unmistakable language He presents obedience to it as the condition of eternal life—the same condition that was required of Adam before his Fall. The Lord expects no less of the soul now than He expected of man in Paradise, perfect obedience, unblemished righteousness. The requirement under the covenant of grace is just as broad as the requirement made in Eden—harmony with God’s law, which is holy, just, and good." (Christ’s Object Lessons, p. 391)​

How much clearer does it need to be that the SDA church adopts a formula of 'salvation' by compliance to the old covenant? This is not a Christian organization that recognizes God's redemption from the covenant from Mount Sinai, and having one foot in the tenets of Judaism while giving lipservice to our Redeemer is their form of promoting adultery.

Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.​

The resulting conclusions are inescapable:

• The Seventh-day Adventist 'church' has rejected redemption in Jesus Christ.
• Elder111 is a habitual liar who wants others to forget what he posted.

 

[VictorC]

Show me just ONE place in the Bible that mentions a Gentile keeping the Sabbath.

Elder111 has been tasked with the responsibility of showing me when and where God ever assigned the Gentiles in Barbados the Sabbath for probably about a year now. His response has been a vacuum.

 

[LarryP2]

Elder111 has been tasked with the responsibility of showing me when and where God ever assigned the Gentiles in Barbados the Sabbath for probably about a year now. His response has been a vacuum.

Honestly, I have looked and looked an cannot find a suspicion of proof that Gentiles ever kept the Sabbath. Not in the Bible, not in the published law of the Sanhedrin, not in Josephus's "Antiquities of the Jews," not in the writings of First and Second Century Christian Fathers (their hatred of the Sabbath was viciously legendary), not in the Babylonian Talmud, not in contemporaneous Roman and Greek historians. I am at a dead loss. I would LOVE it if someone could prove me wrong. I can see in Acts 15 and the Decree from the Council of Jerusalem where some Pharisees wanted the Gentile Christian converts at Antioch to also convert to Judaism, but that is it. And they lost! The fact of the matter is, the Greek and Roman Pagans HATED the Sabbath and thought it was both stupid and lazy. They are on record saying that, many times. The Greek contempt for anything Jewish was so severe that many Jewish men would struggle to conceal their circumcision while in the public gymnasiums (everyone ran around buck naked). Had Christianity came saddled with the Sabbath, it would have died in its infancy, as far as the Greeks and Romans were concerned. The Romans had that deal after the 135 AD Bar Kokhba Revolt, where they "went Carthage/Postal" on the Jews:

"In the years following the revolt, Hadrian discriminated against all Judeo-Christian sects, but the worst persecution was directed against religious Jews. He made anti-religious decrees forbidding Torah study, Sabbath observance, circumcision, Jewish courts, meeting in synagogues and other ritual practices. Many Jews assimilated and many sages and prominent men were martyred including Rabbi Akiva and the rest of the Asara Harugei Malchut (ten martyrs). This age of persecution lasted throughout the remainder of Hadrian’s reign, until 138 C.E."
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/revolt1.html

This is driving me CRAZY. I know there must be ONE, somewhere? Anyone?

 

[Sophrosyne]

Why is it that you have to be ridiculous?
Did Jesus allow men to suffer on the Sabbath?
Do my neighbour only have Sabbath to fix a car etc.?
Do you really think that SDA's would see person in need on the Sabbath and refuse to help because it is Sabbath?
So why don't you stay away from church on Sundays and go around helping people?

We have seen an example posted here of an SDA seeing a person in need and refusing to help him because it was the Sabbath and it was an SDA Pastor. Jesus himself was admonished for helping someone on the Sabbath by people who held it higher of an esteem than they do Jesus himself. I don't have to stay away from Church on Sunday to help someone but I have skipped Church before to do so and not felt it wrong to do so at all. I don't feel obligated to be at church to the point that my salvation is at risk if I should not attend. I've gone months without attending on Sundays instead going on Saturdays and/or Wednesdays as I hold no allegiance to certain days when it comes to God I'm rather flexible and have been known to attend 2 days a week one week and none the next.

 

[Elder 111]

Not "ridiculous." "Accurate."



No. But Adventists do it all the time. See pasted excerpt.



Yes, as a matter of fact, I DO! And right HERE is the kind of unctuous, Pharisaic, self-righteous, gloating trash Sophrosyne is referring to:

"In silent horror, I listened to my Seventh-day Adventist pastor’s mini-sermon as I watched blood trickle down the little Boy Scout’s leg. After crashing his bicycle, the boy had timidly approached our picnic table. In a weak, shaky voice he begged, “I lost my group. Could you catch me up to my group?” Seeing this as a “teachable moment” my pastor responded to the young lad by gently putting his hand on the boy’s shoulder.

“Saturday is the Sabbath,” the pastor said with an enlightened smile and began a short homily explaining why the fourth commandment kept us from helping him. However, he offered to pray for him. To this day, I am baffled as to why the pastor refused the Boy Scout, unless it was the Adventist taboo of riding bikes on Sabbath. That experience symbolized my frustrations growing up in the SDA church."

From Prophetess to Pope – Conversion Story of Arthur and Teresa Beem | The Coming Home Network

Now let's reread the quote that sparked your rant and see if you can now comprehend what Sophrosyne was saying:



Now are you getting it?

I am getting that you are looking to discredit Adventist in an attempt to discredit the Sabbath.
Are all Sunday keepers holy and honest, helping and loving their neighbours at all times? Are all SDA's non-loving and unhelpful?

 

[Sophrosyne]

I am getting that you are looking to discredit Adventist in an attempt to discredit the Sabbath.
Are all Sunday keepers holy and honest, helping and loving their neighbours at all times? Are all SDA's non-loving and unhelpful?

There goes the "Sunday Keeper" thing. There is almost no comparison to those who attend worship services on Sunday and those who pretend to "keep" the Sabbath. Very few Sunday worshippers abstain from working on Sunday to the point it would be considered an exercise equivalent to "keeping" it. In other words the statement alone is a poisoning the well fallacy in itself.

 

[Elder 111]

Originally Posted by LarryP2

Show me just ONE place in the Bible that mentions a Gentile keeping the Sabbath.
​

Elder111 has been tasked with the responsibility of showing me when and where God ever assigned the Gentiles in Barbados the Sabbath for probably about a year now. His response has been a vacuum.

Acts 13:
43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
Now it is obvious from verse 45 that the the whole city were not all Jews. So Gentles were worshiping on a Sabbath.
I would not bother to give any more, but there are others.

 

[VictorC]

Acts 13:
43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
Now it is obvious from verse 45 that the the whole city were not all Jews. So Gentles were worshiping on a Sabbath.
I would not bother to give any more, but there are others.

Meeting at a given time isn't keeping the Sabbath holy according to the Law that ordained it.
This is one of many points that has been repeated ad nausem to show that the SDA church has never kept the Sabbath Holy.
And...
You have never shown when and where the Gentiles in Barbados were ever charged with the Sabbath in the first place.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Originally Posted by LarryP2

Show me just ONE place in the Bible that mentions a Gentile keeping the Sabbath.
​

Acts 13:
43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
Now it is obvious from verse 45 that the the whole city were not all Jews. So Gentles were worshiping on a Sabbath.
I would not bother to give any more, but there are others.

Coming Together and worshiping isn't the same as KEEPING even if it is done on the Sabbath. I worship on Saturday and attend Church on Saturdays even at times but am I "keeping" a Sabbath? NO. Is it an example of "keeping" a Sabbath? NO.
You are essentially guilty of "conviction" by association and in a court room the Jury and Judge would ask you what proof do you have? Just because someone knows someone and even hangs around them doesn't necessarily mean they are guilty of doing the things they do, nor are they necessarily worthy of praise for doing right even.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Meeting at a given time isn't keeping the Sabbath holy according to the Law that ordained it.
This is one of many points that has been repeated ad nausem to show that the SDA church has never kept the Sabbath Holy.
And...
You have never shown when and where the Gentiles in Barbados were ever charged with the Sabbath in the first place.

What is it with this Gentiles in Barbados thing? Is is more important than Gentiles as a whole NEVER being commanded to "keep" any day whatsoever in Christianity?

 

[Elder 111]

Originally Posted by Elder 111

I am getting that you are looking to discredit Adventist in an attempt to discredit the Sabbath.
Are all Sunday keepers holy and honest, helping and loving their neighbours at all times? Are all SDA's non-loving and unhelpful?
​

There goes the "Sunday Keeper" thing. There is almost no comparison to those who attend worship services on Sunday and those who pretend to "keep" the Sabbath. Very few Sunday worshippers abstain from working on Sunday to the point it would be considered an exercise equivalent to "keeping" it. In other words the statement alone is a poisoning the well fallacy in itself.

There are question lefted unanswered.

 

[Elder 111]

Meeting at a given time isn't keeping the Sabbath holy according to the Law that ordained it.
This is one of many points that has been repeated ad nausem to show that the SDA church has never kept the Sabbath Holy.
And...
You have never shown when and where the Gentiles in Barbados were ever charged with the Sabbath in the first place.

Hog wash! You would promote a first day meeting as church without any statement saying that it was but a Sabbath meeting can not be church. Why?
There are only three first day meetings mentioned or implied but dozens of Sabbath meetings. Since when was lest more?

 

[VictorC]

What is it with this Gentiles in Barbados thing? Is is more important than Gentiles as a whole NEVER being commanded to "keep" any day whatsoever in Christianity?

Elder111 is a Gentile living in Barbados. I'm surprised that you never noticed this from his profile moniker before. Elder111 was never given the Sabbath, and yet his whole soteriology is contrary to this basic fact. See what he posted Christmas day last year:

Sabbath should be a day of rest and worship as God requires not as SDA's say.

God required the Sabbath from the children of Israel, as Exodus 31:13 plainly shows exclusive to them. This was until the fullness of time had come for God's redemption from the covenant from Mount Sinai (Galatians 4:4-7), after which God's elect aren't accounted as the children of anyone else other than our Redeemer.

 

[Elder 111]

Coming Together and worshiping isn't the same as KEEPING even if it is done on the Sabbath. I worship on Saturday and attend Church on Saturdays even at times but am I "keeping" a Sabbath? NO. Is it an example of "keeping" a Sabbath? NO.
You are essentially guilty of "conviction" by association and in a court room the Jury and Judge would ask you what proof do you have? Just because someone knows someone and even hangs around them doesn't necessarily mean they are guilty of doing the things they do, nor are they necessarily worthy of praise for doing right even.

So explain to me how you can say the disciple held church on Sunday? Please do that!

 

[VictorC]

Hog wash! You would promote a first day meeting as church without any statement saying that it was but a Sabbath meeting can not be church. Why?
There are only three first day meetings mentioned or implied but dozens of Sabbath meetings. Since when was lest more?

Two things stand out in your post:

• It is discontinuous from the post you replied to, showing that you can't carry a conversation. Read: you don't have any defense for your inability to show the Sabbath conveyed to the Gentile nations.
• Your ignorance of the requirements of the Sabbath causes you to equate meeting at a given time with 'keeping' the Sabbath - and you can't even reconcile this meeting=keeping with your own observation that the early church met on Sunday.

The church isn't driven by the Law we have been redeemed from. You already know that those retained by the covenant from Mount Sinai have no claim to eternal life, according to Galatians 4:21-31. And yet it seems your purpose in life to prove over and over on a public discussion forum that the SDA church -and you- are not remotely Christian in their outlook on the Gospel.

Another point that you're addicted to erroneously is this fixation on "keeping Sunday", which ignores many posts such as the one below showing that isn't what we do.

Agreed. SDA compliance with the old covenant has already been shown as requisite for them to earn eternal life. This is contrary to Galatians 4:30, which shows that those retained by the covenant from Mount Sinai (as defined in v.24) have no claim to eternal life with the Heir.

I have looked at a summary of Seventh-day Baptist beliefs, and they convey some of the errors regarding the origin of the Law's components that made their way into the London Baptist Confession (and Westminster as well). They attribute the Sabbath to creation, unable to distinguish God's rest apart from the Sabbath that originated thousands of years later when Moses lived. An error in attribution leads to an error in conclusion, and they merely follow the error logically. But, it is still an error. At least their salvation isn't dependent on their error. Come to think of it, none of us depend on our doctrine to save us, rather placing our faith in the capable Hands of the Living God to perform what we can't.

These discussions over the Sabbath after the tenure of the old covenant are academic at best. However, the learning experience that comes from working through the Scriptures explaining what we have been redeemed from (Galatians 4:4-7 summarizes the whole Gospel in 4 verses flat) gives us a better appreciation for what we believe. And, the reason that we generally assemble on Sunday, which is rooted in a tradition:

John 20:19-20
Then, the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them, “Peace be with you.” When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord.​

The whole reason we assemble on Sunday stems from this being the day the Lord chose to meet with us. We hope for a repeat of this every time we gather together.
...
Seventh-day Adventists have rightfully earned themselves the "stigma of being a cult", as Dr. Walter Martin wrote in the mid-1960's. They've done more damage to those wishing to gather on Saturday by associating their rendition of Sabbatarianism with 1844 fanaticism and denying Christ's redemption.

 

[VictorC]

So explain to me how you can say the disciple held church on Sunday? Please do that!

Repeating the same straw man fallacy doesn't meet your responsibility:

Elder111 has been tasked with the responsibility of showing me when and where God ever assigned the Gentiles in Barbados the Sabbath for probably about a year now. His response has been a vacuum.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Hog wash! You would promote a first day meeting as church without any statement saying that it was but a Sabbath meeting can not be church. Why?
There are only three first day meetings mentioned or implied but dozens of Sabbath meetings. Since when was lest more?

It wasn't a "Sabbath" specific meeting according to scripture all you can equate from it is that it was people meeting on the Sabbath. If you are going to use that logic all a person needs to do to "keep" the Sabbath is go to church on Saturday and NOTHING else.... no preparing for it... no abstaining from work... no other obligation that was PROVEN to be done by those Gentiles who were most likely NOT allowed to participate as a "keeper" of the Sabbath at all but showed up as SPECTATORS curious about God and since this was just about the only way they could learn anything about God apart from hoping to stumble upon Christians it isn't surprising they would show up where the Jews meet together.
You haven't shown a thing that these Gentiles were even starting to honestly attempt to KEEP a Sabbath here.... all we can ascertain here is they showed up where SOME people were KEEPING the Sabbath. If a dog showed up there I suppose he was "KEEPING" the Sabbath too by this ludicrous show of logic.

 

[LarryP2]

I am getting that you are looking to discredit Adventist in an attempt to discredit the Sabbath.
Are all Sunday keepers holy and honest, helping and loving their neighbours at all times? Are all SDA's non-loving and unhelpful?

I know of no Sunday Keepers that go trolling on threads like these, trying to snare gullible Christians with a bizarre and discredited Salvation By Works theology. Sunday keepers would be much more tolerant if it were not for your obvious deceitful trolling behavior and your typical refusal to give straight answers to obvious questions, or engage in meaningful dialogue.

The Sabbath isn't for me to "discredit," since it was completely irrelevant to Gentiles, before, during and after Christ. Your dishonest mangling of blatantly-obvious instructions to the Gentiles, like what were given in Acts 15, is just mystifying (like you have a learning disability), and represents a curious inability to understand the New Covenant. Outside of the Seventh Day Baptists, I know of no denomination where the Sabbath has not morphed into an unbiblical Salvation by Works scheme. That's a problem, when a mere obsolete Day takes precedence over the Resurrection. And don't tell me that is not true, because I spent 22 years listening to it. Hundreds of Sabbath sermons, NONE on the Resurrection.

And steaming pile, sickening rants about Resurrection-celebrating Christians being "Devil Worshipers engaged in Satanic Rites." And some of the most decent, saintly and heroic people I have ever met in my life - Roman Catholics - being referred to as the "harlot of Babylon." And some of the most virtuous, kind, and loving people I have ever met in my life - Protestants of all stripe - referred to as "The Apostate Daughters of the harlot of Babylon." And why is this?

Well the Resurrection-celebrants, i.e. "The Devil Worshipers engaged in Satanic Rites"; attend week-long, joyous, and praise-filled services, focusing in on the events leading up to the Resurrection with laser-like intensity, their knees buckling and them swooning over their Resurrected Lord and savior Jesus Christ. And this crosses 100's of denominational boundaries: the same thing is celebrated in pretty much the same way no matter what church you attend. It doesn't matter whether it's in an incredible work of art Gothic Cathedral with a 4900 pipe organ and a Bishop with a doctorate in theology from Yale; or a sawdust-floored revival tent presided over by a stump-toothed hillbilly with a 6 week internet Bible correspondence course under his belt. Oh, but they are all dead wrong, holler Seventh Day Adventists, denouncing the Resurrection as a satanic plot in fiery Sabbath sermons. Little kids getting a few desultory jellybeans, with a stern warning not to let anyone from the Church know.

Pure, undisguised Resurrection Denial!

We will discuss those evil Roman Catholics......do you have any idea of how terribly rotten it is to smear those decent, kindly and giving people "The harlot of Babylon?" Has Adventism EVER produced a Mother Theresa, a Saint Teresa of France, a Saint Francis of Assisi? I could reel off THOUSANDS more that have lived lives in exemplary service to Christ that FAR surpass anything Adventism has ever DREAMED of producing. How about St. Teresa of France spending her life in a leper colony, licking their oozing sores and swooning over the horribly disfigured as something beautiful for Jesus? How about Mother Theresa, living in abject poverty in Calcutta, leaving less than $20 in worldly possession at her death, giving dignity to thousands of dying Untouchables? How about the tiny Maryknoll nun - an attorney - I met at a Jesuit-sponsored attorney-training Death Penalty Conference? She - all 4'8" and 90 pounds - represented a client that savagely-raped and beheaded two of her sister nuns, took their meager nun pay after sexually-violating her Dear friends' corpses for four days, and got drunk with it.

Why?

Why would anyone help someone like that?

Cuz Catholics mean what they say about the value of human life, that's why.

And cuz: "For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

There's that.

She sat in the jail cell with that Inhuman Mutant from Hell.......that "thing" for years, patiently teaching "it" how to testify; zealously representing "it" in court with fire-eating, unbending, unflinching determination; openly-defiant at the Judge that her client would "suck from the pipe" as soon as they tore him loose from her cold, dead, lifeless hands. Spending three months solid in a courtroom, eating maybe once every three days or so, and being within an inch of being thrown into jail herself for contempt almost every minute of it.

Yes. "harlot of Babylon," that.

You couldn't get more horrifying, more ghastly-stomach churning..... in describing people like that, the way Adventists do. And to top it off, The Great Controversy is such a malignant, horrifying piece of virulent filth, it was investigated by the Canadian authorities as a potential hate crime for the way it recklessly smears these wonderful, selfless people.

Now we turn to the Protestants, AKA "The Apostate Daughters of the harlot of Babylon." How about preacher Henry Ward Beecher, passing the offering plate at his fiery abolitionist church, his congregants putting their wedding rings in the plate to ransom slaves -total strangers! - out of cruel captivity!!!

Their wedding rings!

His Church a virtual full-time hotel stopover for tens of thousands of fugitive slaves, openly violating the Fugitive Slave Act and taunting US Marshalls to come and arrest him. Southern slave-owners raised a $500,000 (a cool $50 million in today's dollar) bounty for his head, "Dead or Alive." Northern Protestants dynamiting prisons to free captive slaves, raising money to buy guns for Kansas anti-slavery militias. "Beecher Bibles" they called them guns. Scores of Protestant Churches were stopovers on the Underground Railroad and were burnt to the ground by Southern slave bounty hunters. This just one 20-year period in the almost unbelievably-heroic lives of these jaw-dropping amazing people who literally threw themselves bodily onto the "hand grenade" that was meant for those escaped slaves.

"Apostate Daughters of the harlot of Babylon."

And where were Adventists during all of this? Why, Ellen White was predicting that the North would lose and slavery would be a permanent institution, mocking Lincoln's conduct of the war, and refusing to allow Adventists to serve in the GREATEST human rights issue of our nation's history. That's where.

So no, it doesn't surprise me one little bit that an Adventist minister would refuse to help a bleeding Boy Scout because it was on the Sabbath.

Who needs me to "discredit them?" They are doing just fine without my help.

 

[Sophrosyne]

So explain to me how you can say the disciple held church on Sunday? Please do that!

going to church is not the same as keeping the sabbath.... we don't even see mention of worship on the sabbath in the OT when it was first instituted.. We don't see that worship is REQUIRED on the Sabbath anywhere in scripture either.