Lies about the Sabbath.

[SAAN]

You posted Canon 51 of the Laodicean council to say that Sabbath was kept. Did you read Canon 29?
Canon 29

Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.
SDA overreaches in many cases to take the common word used for 'Saturday' to imply Sabbath-keeping.

Canon 29???? Seriously?

You will put anti Jewish church leaders against your own bible in which your own Messiah was a Hebrew Jew that kept that day and showed others how to do good on that day.

On judgment day Jesus will judge you by the bible, not 2nd & 3rd century church history.

 

[Elder 111]

You posted Canon 51 of the Laodicean council to say that Sabbath was kept. Did you read Canon 29?
Canon 29

Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.
SDA overreaches in many cases to take the common word used for 'Saturday' to imply Sabbath-keeping.

My point is that if it was done away with in the time of the disciples the Gentles would never be contending with it on such a large scale 350 years later, and why are they doing service on the Sabbath any way?

 

[LarryP2]

My point is that if it was done away with in the time of the disciples the Gentles would never be contending with it on such a large scale 350 years later, and why are they doing service on the Sabbath any way?

It is clear that the Apostles began worshiping on Sunday morning of the Resurrection, and have been doing so for 2,000 years. Seventh Day Adventism has been squarely confronted with this fact, and has never denied it! Since 1888, the Adventist church has been systematically lying to its members about a Papal Conspiracy theory of Sabbath rejection their own Sabbath Scholar Samuele Bacchiochi has proven to be completely false. Yet they continue to teach that the Pope changed "Saturday to Sunday!!"

Christianity wasn't merely "contending with" the same Judaizing and Ebionite heresy that you propound. For 350 years prior to Laodicea, they were vigorously ejecting those heretics from the Church. The opposition to your Ebionite heresy was simply finally reduced to writing, and was no different than what the Church theology had been for 350 years. I understand that you do not accept the Council of Laodicea's decision, but it defined, and continues to define orthodox Christianity. You have completely rejected orthodox Christianity. You think you have something new, but you don't. Christianity has been confronted with PRECISELY what you propound and has squarely rejected for all time. So my question is: Why are you reading and writing on an orthodox christian webpage, in willful violation of their statement of faith?

That undisguised, visceral hatred of, and open rejection of orthodox Christianity and the Christian Councils is tolerated on this website is just mind-blowing. There is only a slight difference between the Salvation by Perfect Sabbath Keeping that is argued here, and Jehovah's Witness and Branch Davidian trash, and neither cult is EVER allowed to post their junk in the Orthodox Christianity portion of the site.

 

[from scratch]

Canon 29???? Seriously?

Why do you reject this Bible supportable Canon?

You will put anti Jewish church leaders against your own bible in which your own Messiah was a Hebrew Jew that kept that day and showed others how to do good on that day.

Why do you bring anti Semitism to the fore? Are the Christian leaders anti Jewish or against what they promote? You seem to only be able to relate everything on a personal level. Opposing false doctrine isn't an attack on a person or a group of people.

On judgment day Jesus will judge you by the bible, not 2nd & 3rd century church history.

No the Christian will be judged by the blood of the Lamb. John 5:24 says we already passed the judgment. Why are you even posing it as a threat by making it a fear factor?

 

[from scratch]

My point is that if it was done away with in the time of the disciples the Gentles would never be contending with it on such a large scale 350 years later, and why are they doing service on the Sabbath any way?

No they never give up just like you. You seem to have no understanding about the behavior of people and its cause.

 

[VictorC]

What do you mean working to show obedience? Do you also mean that God worked to show obedience and the rested from it? For the text says as God rested! 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
So the Sabbath is not the seventh day! 4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
But God said it was. Ex 20:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
The seventh day of Hebrews is the seventh day of Genesis but not the seventh day Sabbath although God said so and wrote it twice with His own hand?

No, God didn't say nor write that the seventh day of the creation account was the Sabbath. Don't forget that Exodus 20 is the oral declaration of the covenant from Mount Sinai, while Deuteronomy 5 is very likely Moses reading the record from the tablets of stone. Exodus 20:11 differentiates God's rest on the seventh day apart from the Sabbath that is given as a result of His own rest as the reason - and the impetus necessarily precedes the result, just as the Exodus precedes the Sabbath in Deuteronomy 5:15. Exodus 20:11 shows that the seventh day of creation wasn't the Sabbath, consistent with the rest of the Law's testimony.

When you truncate a sentence as you did with Exodus 20:10, omitting verse 9, you ignore the Sabbath being a weekly event instead of referring to the seventh day of creation. You've seen many posts for probably a year showing you this, and you haven't provided an answer to them. You aren't answering posts anymore. You haven't any defense for your mutilation of the Law's account in Exodus 20, nor how you've re-written Hebrews 4 in your mind.

The result is that you have rejected God's rest, that those who had the Sabbath all its 1400-year tenure didn't enter into.

So God gave the Sabbath because He knew that nobody will be able to enter into the rest that He wanted them to have. Smart of Him don't you think? The command to keep the Sabbath is accusally one not to keep it?

Since God never gave you, a Gentile in Barbados, the Sabbath exclusive to the children of Israel (Exodus 31:13), your complaint is a moot issue. The Sabbath isn't the rest God wanted us to enter into.

The morning and evening of the Seventh day is eternity?
You must carry your idea to the legal authorities, we will have less criminals. The way to stop crime is not to have laws. Remove the law and the would be no disobedience! God could have done that from the beginning, He is not perfect after all then.

The result of your foolish intent to bind everyone under the Law is to conclude everyone "guilty before God" (Romans 3:19) with no recourse nor solution. For you, there is no Gospel. There is no salvation, redemption from the temporal husband that has died, no adoption as children of God. There is no reconciliation to God, and everybody is thrown into the lake of fire with no exceptions.

That's Adventism in a nutshell. This is why we look at your posts that fail to recognize the nature of a legal covenant that had a limited jurisdiction, see that you have nothing to offer other than universal condemnation of all humanity, and easily conclude you've rejected the basic tenets of Christianity.

What was finished? The Sabbath or His sacrifice for all mankind?

Finished? Your rhetorical question isn't remotely cognizant of what Romans 11:32 actually says. God's conclusion of disobedience is final, and so is His offer of mercy that is contingent on His conclusion. God didn't make an exception for anyone outside His declaration that encompasses "ALL". It includes you, and all the rebels in your cult seeking to 'vindicate the law of God' by your habitual disobedience.

 

[Sophrosyne]

What do you mean working to show obedience? Do you also mean that God worked to show obedience and the rested from it? For the text says as God rested! 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
So the Sabbath is not the seventh day! 4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
But God said it was. Ex 20:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
The seventh day of Hebrews is the seventh day of Genesis but not the seventh day Sabbath although God said so and wrote it twice with His own hand?

No, because unless someone starts works again after the sabbath it isn't a SABBATH DAY being kept. Show me where the "works" cycle started again.. you can't.

So God gave the Sabbath because He knew that nobody will be able to enter into the rest that He wanted them to have. Smart of Him don't you think? The command to keep the Sabbath is accusally one not to keep it?
The morning and evening of the Seventh day is eternity?
You must carry your idea to the legal authorities, we will have less criminals. The way to stop crime is not to have laws. Remove the law and the would be no disobedience! God could have done that from the beginning, He is not perfect after all then.


What was finished? The Sabbath or His sacrifice for all mankind?

There is a rest and there is keeping of a day which includes rest. God didn't start a cycle of work/rest 6 days/ 1 day like he commanded man to do. You cannot ENTER into God's rest if you are STILL working 6 days while he is NOT WORKING them. God's rest is ALL DAYS not just ONE.

 

[from scratch]

No, because unless someone starts works again after the sabbath it isn't a SABBATH DAY being kept. Show me where the "works" cycle started again.. you can't.

There is a rest and there is keeping of a day which includes rest. God didn't start a cycle of work/rest 6 days/ 1 day like he commanded man to do. You cannot ENTER into God's rest if you are STILL working 6 days while he is NOT WORKING them. God's rest is ALL DAYS not just ONE.

Excellent point.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Excellent point.

I don't think SDAs and the like can differentiate between God's rest and the "rest" made for mankind (forced ceremonial rest).

 

[LarryP2]

Canon 29???? Seriously?

You will put anti Jewish church leaders against your own bible in which your own Messiah was a Hebrew Jew that kept that day and showed others how to do good on that day.

On judgment day Jesus will judge you by the bible, not 2nd & 3rd century church history.

Jesus founded a Church, not a book. The book reveals his church. The Church is his body, his body is not a book. Simply put, the Early Church leaders quickly realized that Judaizing Sabbath Keepers were disruptive and not in obedience to the clear instructions of the Apostles. The Apostles jettisoned forevermore the Sabbath on Resurrection morning, and instructed their followers to do likewise. This is the unchallenged history of the First Century Christian Church. Canon 29 merely states in writing what the Church doctrine had been for over 300 years. It says what it means, and means what it says, and it was adopted unanimously by the Body of Christ.

Christianity has defined itself just fine, with no help from any of us. But its definition of itself is crystal clear. And Canon 29 set one standard so that nobody could misunderstand: If you cannot or will not meet that standard, then don't call yourself a Christian. It says right on its face that you should be excommunicated. Feel free to call yourself a Muslim, a Buddhist, a Jehovah's Witness, a Messianic Jew, a Branch Davidian, World Wide Church of God, People's Temple, The Way International.....whatever you want. But if you do not meet the written standards of Christianity as it has consistently defined itself, you should not be here posting and writing, nor should you be proselytizing gullible Christians with your anti-Christian beliefs, nor should you be venting your extreme anti-Christian hatred at the written standards, set forth once and for all, by the Church Councils. Canon 29 has NEVER been challenged by Christianity. And it sets clear standards for removing a virulent heresy that is totally incompatible with Christianity.

I cannot see ANY difference between challenging the Nicene Creed (adopted by the First Council of Nicaea) and the Council of Laodicea, Canon 29. They are both equally expressions of the definition of orthodox Christianity. Christianity has made itself very very clear.

 

[from scratch]

I don't think SDAs and the like can differentiate between God's rest and the "rest" made for mankind (forced ceremonial rest).

You're absolutely correct.

 

[Elder 111]

It is clear that the Apostles began worshiping on Sunday morning of the Resurrection, and have been doing so for 2,000 years. Seventh Day Adventism has been squarely confronted with this fact, and has never denied it! Since 1888, the Adventist church has been systematically lying to its members about a Papal Conspiracy theory of Sabbath rejection their own Sabbath Scholar Samuele Bacchiochi has proven to be completely false. Yet they continue to teach that the Pope changed "Saturday to Sunday!!"

Christianity wasn't merely "contending with" the same Judaizing and Ebionite heresy that you propound. For 350 years prior to Laodicea, they were vigorously ejecting those heretics from the Church. The opposition to your Ebionite heresy was simply finally reduced to writing, and was no different than what the Church theology had been for 350 years. I understand that you do not accept the Council of Laodicea's decision, but it defined, and continues to define orthodox Christianity. You have completely rejected orthodox Christianity. You think you have something new, but you don't. Christianity has been confronted with PRECISELY what you propound and has squarely rejected for all time. So my question is: Why are you reading and writing on an orthodox christian webpage, in willful violation of their statement of faith?

That undisguised, visceral hatred of, and open rejection of orthodox Christianity and the Christian Councils is tolerated on this website is just mind-blowing. There is only a slight difference between the Salvation by Perfect Sabbath Keeping that is argued here, and Jehovah's Witness and Branch Davidian trash, and neither cult is EVER allowed to post their junk in the Orthodox Christianity portion of the site.

Why is truth rejected. Why are statement made that are not factual? There are historical facts to show clearly that the Sabbath was observed up to the fourth century even the Catholic church admits to that. I have read such in Catholic literature already so at least you don't fool me, and I hope others will look for themselves. Here is one encyclopedia.
http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Sabbath.aspx.
Since Christianity emerged as an interpretation of Judaism with Jesus accepted as messiah, many early ‘Christians’ (the name first appeared at Antioch, according to Acts 11. 26) observed the Sabbath and attended synagogue. The transfer of ‘rest’ from the Sabbath to Sunday began from about the 4th cent., but the reason given was to enable people to worship God, rather than to revive the abstention from work in imitation of the sabbath rest. The phrase ‘the Christian sabbath’ dates from about the 12th cent. The early Reformers (e.g. Luther, Calvin, Cranmer, Knox), insisted on the day of rest, though not in imitation of the Sabbath. The Evangelical Revival reinforced strict sabbath observance in 19th cent. Britain (the Lord's Day Observance Society was founded in 1831), but the influence of Sabbatarian movements on the Continent was more limited. The erosion of ‘sabbath observance’ is now extensive. Seventh-Day Adventists believe that the churches have been in error in abandoning the observance of the Sabbath on the original day and have reverted to that practice.

 

[Elder 111]

Why do you reject this Bible supportable Canon?Why do you bring anti Semitism to the fore? Are the Christian leaders anti Jewish or against what they promote? You seem to only be able to relate everything on a personal level. Opposing false doctrine isn't an attack on a person or a group of people. No the Christian will be judged by the blood of the Lamb. John 5:24 says we already passed the judgment. Why are you even posing it as a threat by making it a fear factor?

James 2:
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

 

[Elder 111]

No, because unless someone starts works again after the sabbath it isn't a SABBATH DAY being kept. Show me where the "works" cycle started again.. you can't.

There is a rest and there is keeping of a day which includes rest. God didn't start a cycle of work/rest 6 days/ 1 day like he commanded man to do. You cannot ENTER into God's rest if you are STILL working 6 days while he is NOT WORKING them. God's rest is ALL DAYS not just ONE.

The God that never rest has been resting since creation?

Ps. 121:
3 He will not suffer thy foot to be moved: he that keepeth thee will not slumber.
4 Behold, he that keepeth Israel shall neither slumber nor sleep.
5 The Lord is thy keeper: the Lord is thy shade upon thy right hand.

 

[Elder 111]

I hope that you who have been observing have seen how truth, plain scripture has been reject over and over again.
It will get worse.

 

[Elder 111]

Maybe some who are not Adventist may help.
THE SIN OF NOT KEEPING THE SABBATH DAY

 

[Sophrosyne]

The God that never rest has been resting since creation?

Ps. 121:
3 He will not suffer thy foot to be moved: he that keepeth thee will not slumber.
4 Behold, he that keepeth Israel shall neither slumber nor sleep.
5 The Lord is thy keeper: the Lord is thy shade upon thy right hand.

Are you saying God NEVER RESTED and started creating another 6 days then another rest then another 6 days then another rest?
You Sabbath promoters just don't have a clue that there are more than 1 type of sabbath in the Bible. Jesus slept and is God.... deal with that in your warped idea of out of context scripture.

 

[Sophrosyne]

I hope that you who have been observing have seen how truth, plain scripture has been reject over and over again.
It will get worse.

I don't think you will get any worse about rejecting scripture than you already are.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Maybe some who are not Adventist may help.
THE SIN OF NOT KEEPING THE SABBATH DAY

I think people needing help can read all the threads in the Sabbath/Law forum and get an idea rather quickly regarding the Sabbath and why it is an utter farce that Gentiles should have to even bother with it when Paul himself said it was optional and nobody in the New Testament advocated it.
The Sabbath is like a mirage that if you keep chasing it you will just end up wandering around the desert for 40 years getting nowhere in Christ.

 

[LarryP2]

Why is truth rejected. Why are statement made that are not factual? There are historical facts to show clearly that the Sabbath was observed up to the fourth century even the Catholic church admits to that. I have read such in Catholic literature already so at least you don't fool me, and I hope others will look for themselves. Here is one encyclopedia.

Seventh Day Adventism has been telling its membership that same bald-faced lie for 140 years, and has deliberately withheld the following statement from the Eastern Orthodox church from its membership:

"Our Church, which includes all the very first Churches founded by the apostles, such as Jerusalem, Antioch, Ephesus, Corinth, Alexandria, and even Rome, for the first three hundred years, has kept the 'first day of the
week' as a day of rest and in holy remembrance of the Resurrection of our Blessed Lord from the dead. From the dawn of Christianity she bears witness that it has been the Sacred Day on which the faithful assembled for the partaking of the Lord's Supper, for the saying of public prayer, and the hearing of sermons."
"Our Holy Traditions, the Sub-Apostolic, Anti-Nicene and Sub-Nicene Fathers, as well as all of our historians, also bear testimony to this fact. Under the head of the Fourth Commandment in our Catechism, which is accepted by the whole Holy Orthodox Catholic Apostolic Church, this instruction is given. And both the Roman Church and all other Churches which regard the authority of antiquity, calling themselves Protestant, agree on this very fact, viz., that the Lord's Day (the first day of the week) has been observed from the morning of the Resurrection till this moment."

Catholicism had NOTHING to do with Sunday worship and Seventh Day Adventism has been lying to its membership about it for a solid 140 years.

I hope that you who have been observing have seen how truth, plain scripture has been reject over and over again.
It will get worse.

The above is the "truth" that has been systematically-withheld by Seventh Day Adventism leadership from its membership for over 140 years. Seventh Day Adventism has NEVER acknowledged, let alone addressed, let alone contested, let alone refuted, let alone disputed, let alone disproved the above statement.

It stands completely and solidly historical, with NO dissent from the Adventist Church.......EVER.