Liberals are Tolerant and Progressive?

[SolomonVII]

Yup, and loving our neighbors and enemies along the way. What makes you think loving means allowing anything? In loving my children they are disciplined and corrected along the way. We submit nothing in loving our enemies and neighbors.

I do not think that loving means allowing anything. I think just the opposite in fact. What I wrote was to make that distinction perfectly clear.

 

[SolomonVII]

Loving one's enemies is simply that-loving. It isn't anything else that what Jesus said. You can spin it into something that becomes just lip service and not love at all, but then it wouldn't be what the text simply says, would it?

It is more fun to have enemies we can hate and plot and plan against; to put a face on that which we despise. But that isn't what we are called to be nor do.

I don;t think this is one of your better posts, Mr. Jim. It seems as if you are more interested spinning me into something rather than dealing with what I am actually saying.

 

[MrJim]

I don;t think this is one of your better posts, Mr. Jim. It seems as if you are more interested spinning me into something rather than dealing with what I am actually saying.

I apologize~I'll work on it...don't know though what else to say other than what I've said.

Jimmy boy, I am not molding anything. I am just simply saying Self defense is not Wrong.

Not all conservatives are going to agree on how to work out these passages.

 

[SolomonVII]

Jimmy boy, I am not molding anything. I am just simply saying Self defense is not Wrong.

I would go even further and state that not defending oneself is wrong.

It is not a choice between the lesser of two evils, but the choice is always the lessening of evil in the world. All that it takes for evil to prevail in the world is for good people to do nothing.

We could set up the situation of a Christian sitting at a table with a loaded gun beside him as his wife and children get raped. There is no doubt that there would be a certain amount of evil in the act of placing a bullet in between the eyes of the perpetrator, in terms of the beliefs of the conscientious objector to violence of any kind.

But how could anyone live with themselves if their response was anything less than that?

 

[SolomonVII]

I apologize~I'll work on it...don't know though what else to say other than what I've said.

Maybe you could have given me the benefit of the doubt that I was actually being sincere, rather than accusing me of spinning?

 

[GQ Chris]

I would go even further and state that not defending oneself is wrong.

It is not a choice between the lesser of two evils, but the choice is always the lessening of evil in the world. All that it takes for evil to prevail in the world is for good people to do nothing.

We could set up the situation of a Christian sitting at a table with a loaded gun beside him as his wife and children get raped. There is no doubt that there would be a certain amount of evil in the act of placing a bullet in between the eyes of the perpetrator, in terms of the beliefs of the conscientious objector to violence of any kind.

But how could anyone live with themselves if their response was anything less than that?

Yes, I agree with you When good men stand by and do nothing, that is Evil, Edmund Burke said that. This is the point I been trying to make with other Christians here.

 

[Anglian]

Dear Solomon,

In the passage from Matthew quoted above, the Lord is not talking about Himself, but about us and how we should behave.

If what He says runs counter to our ideas, or even those of Edmund Burke, we have a duty to consider why we wish to depart from His teaching.

We do not, of course, have to put ourselves in harm's way, not should we; but I am not seeing in what Our Lord teaches a sanction for returning violence with violence.

Matthew 26:52:
52 But Jesus said to him, Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.

I understand the frustration you and Chris feel with what is being said here, but this is the teaching of the Lord; like many of His teachings it is a hard one for us. But we should do it.

Hug a liberal? Very hard, I know.

peace,

Anglian

 

[GQ Chris]

Dear Solomon,

In the passage from Matthew quoted above, the Lord is not talking about Himself, but about us and how we should behave.

If what He says runs counter to our ideas, or even those of Edmund Burke, we have a duty to consider why we wish to depart from His teaching.

We do not, of course, have to put ourselves in harm's way, not should we; but I am not seeing in what Our Lord teaches a sanction for returning violence with violence.

Matthew 26:52:
52 But Jesus said to him, Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.

I understand the frustration you and Chris feel with what is being said here, but this is the teaching of the Lord; like many of His teachings it is a hard one for us. But we should do it.

Hug a liberal? Very hard, I know.

peace,

Anglian

I'd hug a liberal. but by your logic, and we encounter a knife wielding Home invader at 3am, with the intent to rape and murder, what should we do? Have a rational discussion with him and offer some cookies?

 

[GreenMunchkin]

It is perhaps important to make a distinction between liberal and leftists here. Those with liberal tendancies by and large are more willing to be tolerant. In the last thirty years however, the political arena has become radicalized by the far left who are willing to resort to any kind of tactics to achieve power. The liberal voice has become drowned out.

Exactly, Solomon!! Exactly that! Liberal *means* liberal. Leftists have utterly misappropriated the term and turned it into something fisticuffy and aggressive and political and ugly, but "liberal" in and of itself just is not a Bad Thing.

Loving one's enemies is simply that-loving. It isn't anything else that what Jesus said. You can spin it into something that becomes just lip service and not love at all, but then it wouldn't be what the text simply says, would it?

It is more fun to have enemies we can hate and plot and plan against; to put a face on that which we despise. But that isn't what we are called to be nor do.

QFT. I know this is something I struggle with SO much. *How* do we actually love those who are mean to us, or those whom we feel are warping the message of Christ?

But that's His exhortation, and we just have to. I don't really think we have a choice in it. Not if we're to truly follow Him, anyway; not if we truly believe He is the Lord. But, wow, it's so incredibly difficult

No, you've taken everything out of context. By your logic I should just stand by and let an attacker have his way in my Home. By your logic what Police Officers do is wrong.

Chris, d'ya wanna dial it back a wee bit, maybe? I find your posts in this thread sort of aggressive, and prohibitive... am sorry Can we all just be a little kinder, please? We're allowed to disagree - there's no need for it to turn nasty.

 

[GQ Chris]

Chris, d'ya wanna dial it back a wee bit, maybe? I find your posts in this thread sort of aggressive, and prohibitive... am sorry Can we all just be a little kinder, please? We're allowed to disagree - there's no need for it to turn nasty.

I didn't say anything nasty, if you perceive it that way maybe consider not reading my posts I'm simply being truthful, saying Yes where I mean Yes. And I am really trying to perceive how my other Christian brothers in here would have me handle a life and death situation with their logic.

 

[GQ Chris]

I will always use physical violence as an Extreme Last resort, when all other efforts are exhausted, but once you mess with people I love, all bets are Off.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

I didn't say anything nasty, if you perceive it that way maybe consider not reading my posts I'm simply being truthful, saying Yes where I mean Yes. And I am really trying to perceive how my other Christian brothers in here would have me handle a life and death situation with their logic.

Humm... I guess this possibly strays into the area of passivity in some ways. But those of us, for example, who agree with Jimminy's interpretation of Scriptures aren't necessarily wrong, and we're certainly not liberals, much less leftists.

Actually, we should probably all specify whether we're referring to liberals or leftists from now on, cos I really don't think they're one and the same.

But in answer to the OP, no, leftists most certainly are not peaceable and tolerant and progressive, and waving the "liberal" banner was a truly crafty move to make. Unfortunately, though, it's both altered the meaning of liberal, and given far leftists a cloak of tolerance and love and they absolutely do not deserve

 

[GQ Chris]

Humm... I guess this possibly strays into the area of passivity in some ways. But those of us, for example, who agree with Jimminy's interpretation of Scriptures aren't necessarily wrong

All I will say then is that for people that will face a life/death situation, they better hope the police arrive in time.

 

[Anglian]

I'd hug a liberal. but by your logic, and we encounter a knife wielding Home invader at 3am, with the intent to rape and murder, what should we do? Have a rational discussion with him and offer some cookies?

Dear Chris,

Having had to deal with an Islamic mob which threatened me, and others with violence, I can recommend rational discussion; I can also recommend flight, for those fleeter of foot than myself. Bruises heal, as do broken bones, and if it is God's will that I should come to Him sooner, it is not my part to contest that. As Christians, we are strangers in this world, and as we are told in 1 John 2 :15-17:

2:15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
2:16 For all that is in the world--the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life--is not of the Father but is of the world.
2:17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.

It is a hard saying for us, to love those who hate us and misuse us; but that is what He says. To this day I bear the marks of trying to follow His words here; they serve as a reminder when, as so often, I fail to follow His teachings.

peace,

Anglian

 

[GQ Chris]

Dear Chris,

Having had to deal with an Islamic mob which threatened me, and others with violence, I can recommend rational discussion; I can also recommend flight, for those fleeter of foot than myself. Bruises heal, as do broken bones, and if it is God's will that I should come to Him sooner, it is not my part to contest that. As Christians, we are strangers in this world, and as we are told in 1 John 2 :15-17:

It is a hard saying for us, to love those who hate us and misuse us; but that is what He says. To this day I bear the marks of trying to follow His words here; they serve as a reminder when, as so often, I fail to follow His teachings.

peace,

Anglian

I think what you are prescribing is Evil.

You reccomend fleeing from a home invader with the intent to rape and murder.

 

[ladyt28]

It is one thing to disagree with people but the amount of hatefulness I am seeing in this thread is heartbreaking. Is this what conservatism has come to - that it's ok to use name-calling and open hatefulness? Don't people know how to disagree without being nasty anymore?

 

[GQ Chris]

Isaiah 5:20

20Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness;
Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!

 

[GQ Chris]

It is one thing to disagree with people but the amount of hatefulness I am seeing in this thread is heartbreaking. Is this what conservatism has come to - that it's ok to use name-calling and open hatefulness? Don't people know how to disagree without being nasty anymore?

Did anyone call anyone else profane names? I don't think that disagreement is the same as "hate". I simply think that running away from an evil person intent to do harm to loved ones is Evil, and cowardly.

 

[GQ Chris]

It is appalling to me when Christians will be passive in the guise of "holiness".

 

[MrJim]

It is appalling to me when Christians will be passive in the guise of "holiness".

What you interpret as "passive" may well be obedience