Let's talk about Joe Biden getting Viktor Shokin fired

[essentialsaltes]

It is all based around a quid pro quo

We The People got something, and so did Ukraine. It's diplomacy.

 

[Truth7t7]

We The People got something, and so did Ukraine. It's diplomacy.

If you call Joe Biden bringing "Extortion" upon a nation Ukraine diplomacy, what's next?

Joe Biden: You don't get the $Billion$ until Shokin is fired?

 

[Truth7t7]

That President Biden was engaged in diplomacy, not quid pro quo is not part of the Congressional Record.

Q Is that fair? Now, Vice President Biden was vocal about his concerns about corruption in the 3 prosecutor general's office in Ukraine during this time period.
A Correct.
Q And called for the removal of Shokin from office. Is that correct?
A Yes. That was very well publicized.
Q Okay. And the Senate minority report, which I referenced earlier, described how Vice President's public calls for the Ukrainian Government to remove Shokin as prosecutor general was part of an anticorruption policy of the U.S. Government with broad bipartisan support, as well as support from allies and international institutions like the EU and the International Monetary Fund. Do you agree with that conclusion?
A Sorry. Can you repeat that?
Q Yeah. The Vice President's public calls for the removal of Shokin was part of this broad bipartisan, international anticorruption effort in Ukraine.
A Yes, I believe that was -- that was part of the conversation.
Q But it was bad for Burisma. That was the perception at Burisma, because 18 they had Shokin under their control.
A No. Burisma never informed me of that. I just was -- that's what was I told, that it was bad for Burisma. But I don't know. I don't know if it was good or bad.


Q But so do you have any basis to believe that Vice President Biden's call for Shokin's removal was driven by anything other than the U.S. Government's anticorruption policy in Ukraine?
A Yeah, I have no -- I have no other -- I have no proof or thought that that -- that he fired him for that reason.
Q You have no reason to believe otherwise.
A I have no reason to believe.

This is from Devon Archer's transcript.

Shokin was fired directly related to Joe Biden using extortion upon the country of Ukraine, if they didn't fire Shokin who was investigating his son Hunter, Ukraine wouldn't get the $Billion$ its that simple as seen in the attached clip below

In The Clip 1:15, Joe Biden Brags About His Extortion Of Ukraine

 

[essentialsaltes]

If you call Joe Biden bringing "Extortion" upon a nation Ukraine diplomacy

It was literally the policy of the Obama State Department. This was Joe Biden executing this policy on behalf of We The People.

Even John Solomon knows it. "President Obama named Biden the administration’s point man on Ukraine in February 2014, after a popular revolution ousted Russia-friendly President Viktor Yanukovych and as Moscow sent military forces into Ukraine’s Crimea territory."

 

[Always in His Presence]

We The People got something, and so did Ukraine. It's diplomacy.

Define Quid pro quo

 

[Truth7t7]

It was literally the policy of the Obama State Department. This was Joe Biden executing this policy on behalf of We The People.

Even John Solomon knows it. "President Obama named Biden the administration’s point man on Ukraine in February 2014, after a popular revolution ousted Russia-friendly President Viktor Yanukovych and as Moscow sent military forces into Ukraine’s Crimea territory."

Oh Sure, Big Smiles!

It was a clear explanation of extortion upon a foreign nation Ukraine, Joe Biden represented the interest of his son Hunter who was being investigated by Shokin, he used taxpayer dollars as the foundation for his crimes of extortion

 

[essentialsaltes]

Define Quid pro quo

Latin: "something for something"

 

[Always in His Presence]

Latin: "something for something"

Which is exactly what Joe Biden is on camera admitting to.

If you do not fire, Shulkin, you will not receive the billion dollars.

That is not diplomacy that is quid pro quo at its best.

Obama and his administration had already made the decision to give Ukraine $1 billion in aid. Joe Biden at the last minute in fact, he was leaving in six hours said you do this or you don’t get that.

That is quid pro quo.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Which is exactly what Joe Biden is on camera admitting to.

Are you under the impression that a quid pro quo is illegal? It's the basis of all trade and diplomacy.

But it's also important to consider "Cui bono?" [Latin: "Who benefits?"]

In this case, we have Ukraine getting aid, and the international community and American foreign policy benefitting from the removal of an ineffective and corrupt prosecutor.

In another case, we have Ukraine getting aid, and “I would like you to do us a favor though.” And the favor was Trump getting political assistance in his election against Joe Biden. It was to Trump's personal/political benefit, not We The People's.

 

[Truth7t7]

In this case, we have Ukraine getting aid, and the international community and American foreign policy benefitting from the removal of an ineffective and corrupt prosecutor.

Correction: The honest and effective prosecutor that was investigating Hunter Biden and Burisma for criminal corruption

Something so basic, how far will one go in denial, embarrassing in my opinion

 

[essentialsaltes]

Oh Sure, Big Smiles!

Joe Biden represented the interest of his son Hunter who was being investigated by Shokin

No, as I said before: This was Joe Biden executing this policy on behalf of We The People.

Back to the OP:

2. The United States had an ongoing policy that Ukraine (which like many post-Soviet, former SSRs was suffering from severe corruption issues) needed to clean up it's act before the U.S. would invest in closer ties, especially military ties. President Obama put that policy into action by demanding that Shokin be removed and replaced with a prosecutor who actually would investigate and go after corruption. He dispatched then VP Biden on a diplomatic mission to deliver the message.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Correction, the honest and effective prosecutor that was investigating Hunter Biden and Burisma for criminal corruption

Something so basic, how far will one go in denial, embarrassing in my opinion

Since it is so basic, no doubt you will be able to provide evidence for your statements that Shokin:

*was honest
*was effective
*was investigating Hunter Biden

And this evidence be somehow more conclusive or convincing than the evidence in the OP.

 

[DaisyDay]

Which is exactly what Joe Biden is on camera admitting to.

Biden did not "admit" this, he bragged about it openly, knowing it was being televised, because he was proud of this accomplishment of reducing corruption in Ukraine.

If you do not fire, Shulkin, you will not receive the billion dollars.

That is not diplomacy that is quid pro quo at its best.

Yes, it is quid pro quo - America will give Ukraine aid in exchange for Ukraine cleaning its corruption by firing Shokin who was not doing his job.

Obama and his administration had already made the decision to give Ukraine $1 billion in aid. Joe Biden at the last minute in fact, he was leaving in six hours said you do this or you don’t get that.

No, this was not a last minute rogue decision of Biden's; this was official policy, not only of the US (Biden was a part of Obama's administration) but of the IMF, NATO and the EU.

That is quid pro quo.

But Biden got no quid and gave no quo for himself. This is what you're missing. Biden acted on behalf of the US government according to its policies.

When Donald tried to extort Zelenskiy, the dirt on Biden was for his personal use - we know this because Donald directed that any dirt be given to his personal attorney, Giuliani, not to any official of the US government. Iirc, he also said he would be satisfied if Zelenskiy would simply announce that Biden was being investigated.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Biden did not "admit" this, he bragged about it openly.

Watch the video. He is openly bragging that he forced a foreign government to do what he wants at the cost of a billion dollars WE THE PEOPLE already authorized.

 

[DaisyDay]

Watch the video. He is openly bragging that he forced a foreign government to do what he wants at the cost of a billion dollars WE THE PEOPLE already authorized.

I have seen the video, obviously. WE THE PEOPLE authorized the aid CONDITIONALLY. It wasn't what he, Biden, wanted personally but what WE THE PEOPLE wanted - he represented WE US THE PEOPLE in this deal.

Again, openly bragging. On the other hand, Donald tried to conceal what he was doing.

White House lawyer moved transcript of Trump call to classified server after Ukraine adviser raised alarms​

 

[essentialsaltes]

Watch the video. He is openly bragging that he forced a foreign government to do what he wants

It is not "what Joe wants". It is what Obama tasked him to do as part of American foreign policy. This has been gone over countless times, including in the OP, no matter how much Biden-foes wish the reality were something else.

2. The United States had an ongoing policy that Ukraine (which like many post-Soviet, former SSRs was suffering from severe corruption issues) needed to clean up it's act before the U.S. would invest in closer ties, especially military ties. President Obama put that policy into action by demanding that Shokin be removed and replaced with a prosecutor who actually would investigate and go after corruption. He dispatched then VP Biden on a diplomatic mission to deliver the message.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Shokin was fired directly related to Joe Biden using extortion upon the country of Ukraine, if they didn't fire Shokin who was investigating his son Hunter, Ukraine wouldn't get the $Billion$ its that simple as seen in the attached clip below

In The Clip 1:15, Joe Biden Brags About His Extortion Of Ukraine

The US, the European Union, other countris, anti-corruption activists in Ukraine and the IMF viewed Shokin was corrupt and Shokin had done nothing to investigare a case he inherited on Burisma. Shokin's own deputy said Shokin was not investigating Burisma.

As already stated, Biden was acting for the Obama administration and the State Department when he threatened to withhold aid unless the corrupt prosecuter was fired. Biden personally got nothing out of it.

What you are repeating is the lie that Donald Trump told during the 2020 election. The criminally indicted former President lied a great deal, taking a clip and giving it his alternative universe view of it.

Trump ad misleads about Biden, Ukraine and the prosecutor

A campaign ad from President Donald Trump claims it has "facts" about the Bidens and Ukraine, but instead mashes ideas t

www.politifact.com

Biden did call for Ukraine to fire Shokin, but the ad fails to note that there were widespread calls for his ouster.​

​

Biden assumed a lead role in U.S. diplomacy toward Ukraine after a popular revolution in early 2014 that led to pro-Russia President Viktor Yanukovych fleeing the country. Shokin became top prosecutor in 2015, after Yanukovych went into exile. A frustrated Biden in Dec. 2015 threatened to withhold $1 billion unless Shokin was fired, in hopes that a new prosecutor would do more to enforce the law. According to Biden, it worked........​

​

But Vitaliy Kasko, who served as Shokin’s deputy overseeing international cooperation until he resigned in protest, told Bloomberg in 2019 that, under Shokin, the investigation into Burisma remained dormant. Kasko said the matter was "shelved by Ukrainian prosecutors in 2014 and through 2015," and Bloomberg reported that documents backed up his account​

 

[SimplyMe]

Oh Sure, Big Smiles!

It was a clear explanation of extortion upon a foreign nation Ukraine, Joe Biden represented the interest of his son Hunter who was being investigated by Shokin, he used taxpayer dollars as the foundation for his crimes of extortion

No, Hunter was not being "investigated" by Shokin. The crime that Shokin was investigating (leases obtained by Burisma around 2010 and possible corruption in obtaining them) occurred well before Hunter joined the board and largely centered around Mykola Zlochevsky, the oligarch owner of Burisma. Shokin claims he wanted to interview Hunter, since he was a member of the board, but Hunter was not a member of the board when the crimes occurred.

 

[Pommer]

Since this falsehood/historical revisionism has been cropping up numerous times and Rep. Taylor Greene repeated it in the House chambers last week, let's try putting this baby to bed at least in this section of CF. It's been almost 3 years. It's time to stop with the nonsense.

1. The most important point is that Vice Presidents have very little control over money outside of their own office. Spending is authorized by congress and controlled (mostly) by the President. Even if VP Biden wanted to shake down the Ukrainians for personal gain, he didn't have he power to do so
.
2. The United States had an ongoing policy that Ukraine (which like many post-Soviet, former SSRs was suffering from severe corruption issues) needed to clean up it's act before the U.S. would invest in closer ties, especially military ties. President Obama put that policy into action by demanding that Shokin be removed and replaced with a prosecutor who actually would investigate and go after corruption. He dispatched then VP Biden on a diplomatic mission to deliver the message.
2. a. There were eight U.S. Senators who actively were calling for Shokin's removal in 2016 - three of them, Ron Johnson, Rob Portman and Mark Kirk are Republicans. If Biden only wanted Shokin gone to protect Hunter, why did 3 Republican Senators sign a letter stating he needed to go?

3. The desire to see Shokin removed was internal (Ukrainians had been protesting outside his house), European the EU wanted him gone, individual countries like the British wanted him gone, international (both DoD and State said he need to go), and multi-national (NATO and IMF wanted him removed. The suggestion that the decision was solely Joe Biden and solely for the purpose of protecting Hunter simply cannot withstand scrutiny.

4. The reason the infamous Council on Foreign Relations video is usually shown in a truncated version is to remove context and to count on the ignorance and/or trust of the intended audience.

Here are some fact checks. Please address the content rathe than talk about the sources.

Trump Revives False Narrative on Biden and Ukraine - FactCheck.org

At a campaign rally in Iowa, President Trump cited an unsubstantiated news report to revive a widely debunked false narrative about Joe Biden's work in Ukraine on behalf of the Obama administration.

www.factcheck.org

Fact check: Biden leveraged $1B in aid to Ukraine to oust corrupt prosecutor, not to help his son

Despite a Senate GOP investigation that found no wrongdoing by Joe Biden on foreign policy in Ukraine, claims to the contrary continue to circulate.

www.usatoday.com

Good, normal functioning Governmental action is sought to be turned into corruption in daylight!

Believe as you will, but this is the crux of our problems.

 

[Truth7t7]

Biden did not "admit" this, he bragged about it openly, knowing it was being televised, because he was proud of this accomplishment of reducing corruption in Ukraine.


Yes, it is quid pro quo - America will give Ukraine aid in exchange for Ukraine cleaning its corruption by firing Shokin who was not doing his job.


No, this was not a last minute rogue decision of Biden's; this was official policy, not only of the US (Biden was a part of Obama's administration) but of the IMF, NATO and the EU.


But Biden got no quid and gave no quo for himself. This is what you're missing. Biden acted on behalf of the US government according to its policies.

When Donald tried to extort Zelenskiy, the dirt on Biden was for his personal use - we know this because Donald directed that any dirt be given to his personal attorney, Giuliani, not to any official of the US government. Iirc, he also said he would be satisfied if Zelenskiy would simply announce that Biden was being investigated.

You conveniently forgot Bidens son Hunter was criminally being investigated by Shokin "Why"?

Yes Biden used "Extortion" upon Ukraine, with the quid, pro, quo, fire Shokin or you don't receive the $Billion$ from the US

You aren't going to change the facts, was Hunter Biden being criminally investigated by Shokin, 100% yes

Oversight.house.gov

Comer Statement on Devon Archer’s Testimony​

July 31, 2023

WASHINGTON—House Committee on Oversight and Accountability Chairman James Comer (R-Ky.) issued the following statement following Devon Archer’s four-hour transcribed interview with the committee:

“Devon Archer’s testimony today confirms Joe Biden lied to the American people when he said he had no knowledge about his son’s business dealings and was not involved. Joe Biden was ‘the brand’ that his son sold around the world to enrich the Biden family. When Joe Biden was Vice President of the United States, he joined Hunter Biden’s dinners with his foreign business associates in person or by speakerphone over 20 times. When Burisma’s owner was facing pressure from the Ukrainian prosecutor investigating the company for corruption, Archer testified that Burisma executives asked Hunter to ‘call D.C.’ after a Burisma board meeting in Dubai.

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Press ReleasePublished: Jul 31, 2023

Comer Statement on Devon Archer’s Testimony​

WASHINGTON—House Committee on Oversight and Accountability Chairman James Comer (R-Ky.) issued the following statement following Devon Archer’s four-hour transcribed interview with the committee:

“Devon Archer’s testimony today confirms Joe Biden lied to the American people when he said he had no knowledge about his son’s business dealings and was not involved. Joe Biden was ‘the brand’ that his son sold around the world to enrich the Biden family. When Joe Biden was Vice President of the United States, he joined Hunter Biden’s dinners with his foreign business associates in person or by speakerphone over 20 times. When Burisma’s owner was facing pressure from the Ukrainian prosecutor investigating the company for corruption, Archer testified that Burisma executives asked Hunter to ‘call D.C.’ after a Burisma board meeting in Dubai.

“Why did Joe Biden lie to the American people about his family’s business dealings and his involvement? It begs the question what else he is hiding from the American people. The House Committee on Oversight and Accountability will continue to follow the Bidens’ money trail and interview witnesses to determine whether foreign actors targeted the Bidens, President Biden is compromised and corrupt, and our national security is threatened.”

Below are key takeaways from Devon Archer’s transcribed interview:

• Devon Archer testified that the value of adding Hunter Biden to Burisma’s board was “the brand” and confirmed that then-Vice President Joe Biden was “the brand.”
• Archer admitted that “Burisma would have gone out of business if ‘the brand’ had not been attached to it.” He believed that Hunter Biden being on the board and the Biden brand contributed to Burisma’s longevity. People would have been intimidated to mess with Burisma legally because of the Biden brand.
• In December 2015, Mykola Zlochevsky, the owner of Burisma, and Vadym Pozharski, an executive of Burisma, placed constant pressure on Hunter Biden to get help from D.C. regarding the Ukrainian prosecutor, Viktor Shokin. Shokin was investigating Burisma for corruption. Hunter Biden, along with Zlochevsky and Pozharski, “called D.C.” to discuss the matter. Biden, Zlochevsky, and Pozharski stepped away to make the call. This raises concerns that Hunter Biden was in violation of the Foreign Agents Registration Act.
• Devon Archer testified that Hunter Biden put then-Vice President Joe Biden on the speakerphone during business meetings over 20 times. Archer testified that Joe Biden was put on the phone to sell “the brand.” These phone calls include a dinner in Paris with a French energy company and in China with Jonathan Li, the CEO of BHR.
• Archer acknowledged that then-Vice President Biden had coffee with Jonathan Li, the CEO of BHR, in Beijing. Then-Vice President Biden even wrote a letter of recommendation for college for Li’s daughter.
• Archer confirmed Joe Biden was referred to as “my guy” by Hunter Biden.
• In spring of 2014, then-Vice President Biden attended a business dinner with his son, Hunter, and his associates at Café Milano in Washington, D.C. Elena Baturina, a Russian oligarch who is the widow of the former mayor of Moscow, attended the dinner. Notably, the Biden Administration’s public sanctions list for Russian oligarchs does not contain Baturina.