Timothew, martymonster, and others argue from the perspective that passages from Ecclesiastes determine that death means no more consciousness, and souls will not experience suffering for any more than briefly, and passages saying otherwise must be interpreted "spiritually", with another meaning to be understood. Sky Writing, Duckybill, and Der Ater particularly, and others have shown a number of passages that would show that souls of the unsaved will suffer perpetually, notwithstanding being dead. Der Ater has shown a lot of research behind all these passages, and they are authoritative, but when those arguing that death means no more consciousness look at these, it appears that they conclude that they are right and have an argument for their case ready, they do not have to look at all those verses to deal with them. It seems me better to concentrate the argument to the most decisive points. I wanted to post passages of the following from direct word for word translation from Greek, which I prepared, but did not bring with me to where I post this from, but it does make the point, and I know from seeing it this is the meaning in the Greek.
Mark 3 29"but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”
Matthew 25 46"And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Revelation 20 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Revelation 14 9 ...“If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
The words translated for it do mean eternal, and the same word is used meaning eternal in Matthew for eternal punishment and eternal life, the parallelism meaning that the one is comparible to the other in duration. Infinity has nothing comparible to it other than infinity, if punishment in that passage is meant to be finite in duration, the parallel would mean that the life described as eternal is also of finite duration, in fact of comparible duration. And the Greek phrase translated "for ever and ever" is emphatic over simply "aionon", and is correctly to be translated as such. If punishment for all one's sin was to be accomplished in the brief time it would take to be ignited and be burned to death, it would not correspond to what suffering we would have the capacity to experience to give justice to all the wrong we have done, and it would certainly not provide just penalty for the different degrees of punishment different persons should be subject to. It corresponds to the Creator's eternity to have made those in his image to persist forever, and it might be seen as gracious to stretch suffering of whatever degree is called for through that eternity, as the intensity then is not as great as if given in a finite time, and such persons will never be atoned in such manner as to be fit to enter the realm of God with the blessed that has never and will never have anything sinful within it.
I acknowledge these passages have been posted before, but I wanted them shown exclusively, and I am just very sorry not to have been ready with it word for word from the Greek, but thought it should not wait, as I knew what verses I wanted to show and did not want the discussion to get old and the opportunity to have this seen pass. As has been said, their is no good basis to say that the quotes from Solomon that may appear to lead to a contrary view should take precedence in deciding doctrine. Solomon indeed had fallen into great sin and idolatry, and though it can be concluded that he returned to faith in Yahweh God and the Holy Spirit inspired him to write what is credited to him in scripture, what he wrote under inspiration in Ecclesiastes was from the perspective of being only based in worldly wisdom without godly perspective, as seen as was said from his repeated use of the phrase "under the sun", ie in our material world with no spiritual insight. Hence everything is vanity, or meaningless, as he wrote. There is no perceived difference in value or destiny between people and other animals. A number of points do not correspond to Christian world view that is based on what the Lord Jesus said or the new testament scriptures, and yet the Holy Spirit shows in Ecclesiastes that even with the perspective of such an unregenerate man, the conclusion can still be reached that it is best just to surrender to what good God gives to man and remain obedient to living right according to God's standards. But the fallen man can be shown to not have an understanding of what waits after death, and such statements cannot be taken as authoritative over the meaning of the words of Jesus or new testament teaching truthfully.
Let's look at those verses.
Mark 3:29
ὃς δ’ ἂν βλασφημήσῃ εἰς τὸ πνεῦμα τὸ ἅγιον,
οὐκ ἔχει ἄφεσιν εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα,
ἀλλὰ ἔνοχος ἐστιν αἰωνίου ἁμαρτήματος.
(word-word)
Whoever but would blaspheme against the Spirit the Holy (
or The Holy Spirit),
not have forgiveness against the age,
but guity-of is eternal sin.
(translated)
Whoever would blaspheme against the Holy Spirit,
will not have forgiveness in that age,
but is guilty of an eternal sin.
Matt 25:46
καὶ ἀπελεύσονται οὗτοι εἰς κόλασιν αἰώνιον,
οἱ δὲ δίκαιοι εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον.
(word-word)
And will-go-away these into punishment eternal,
the but just into life eternal.
(translated)
And these will go away into eternal punishment,
but the just (will go) into eternal life.
Rev 20:10
καὶ ὁ διάβολος ὁ πλανῶν αὐτοὺς ἐβλήθη εἰς τὴν λίμνην τοῦ πυρὸς καὶ θείου ὅπου καὶ τὸ θηρίον καὶ ὁ ψευδοπροφήτης, καὶ βασανισθήσονται ἡμέρας καὶ νυκτὸς εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων.
(word-word)
And the devil the deceived them was-thrown into the lake the fire and sulfur where-were also the beast and the false-prophet, and will-have-torment day and night into the age the age.
(translated)
And the devil that deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where were also the beast and the false prophet, and will have torment day and night forever.
Rev 14:10
καὶ αὐτὸς πίεται ἐκ τοῦ οἴνου τοῦ θυμοῦ τοῦ θεοῦ τοῦ κεκερασμένου ἀκράτου ἐν τῷ ποτηρίῳ τῆς ὀργῆς αὐτοῦ καὶ βασανισθήσεται ἐν πυρὶ καὶ θείῳ ἐνώπιον ἀγγέλων ἁγίων καὶ ἐνώπιον τοῦ ἀρνίου.
(word-word)
And they will-drink from the wine the wrath the God the prepared unmixed in the cup the anger his and will-be-tormented in fire and sulfur in-the-presence angels holy and in-the-presence the lamb.
(translated)
And they will drink from the wine of wrath which God prepared straight-up in the cup of his anger, and will be tormented in fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the the lamb.
Rev 14:11
καὶ ὁ καπνὸς τοῦ βασανισμοῦ αὐτῶν εἰς αἰῶνας αἰώνων ἀναβαίνει, καὶ οὐκ ἔχουσιν ἀνάπαυσιν ἡμέρας καὶ νυκτὸς οἱ προσκυνοῦντες τὸ θηρίον καὶ τὴν εἰκόνα αὐτοῦ καὶ εἴ τις λαμβάνει τὸ χάραγμα τοῦ ὀνόματος αὐτοῦ.
(word-word)
And the smoke the torment his into ages ages rises, and not have rest day and night the worship the beast and the image his and if anyone receives the charagma the name his.
(translated)
And the smoke of his torment rises forever, and he does not have rest day and night, who worships the beast and his image and whoever receives the mark of his name.
