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Let's Talk About Hell

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martymonster

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That's not well supported theory.
It works for animals, but Humans are different.
You may not have noticed.

Even though it will fall on deaf ears here it is again anyway.

Ecc 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
Ecc 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
Ecc 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.



Dead!

I do remember someone else contradicting God about this too.

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
 
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Timothew

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Timothew

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That's not very scary. Can I do drugs, kill people, steal money and live the good life until I die? No church time, no preachers...then I die?

Sounds like a good deal to me.

If you think that's a good deal, take it!

I don't think it's a good deal. Why life a short life, full of pain, and then die, when you could have lived a rich, fulfilling life, and be resurrected by God and live for eternity? :amen:?
 
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Der Alte

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Der Alter said:
Actually those 28 verses have everything to do with the topic of this thread which is, "Lets talk about hell." Problem is nobody will read them and try to address them.

Did you read post 453? The 28 verses were examined 1 by 1.
www.christianforums.com/t7463551-46/#post55041288

It was insightful, intellegent, witty, and informative.

I wrote it.

Oh good for you read and replied to only the first 17 of the 28 passages. And your replies were neither insightful, intelligent, witty, nor informative. Some one line retorts which I have seen before and which did NOT address anything in detail, and several 2-3 word references to a previous vs. You addressed each vs. as if it had no relation to any other other vss. And of course you did not even address some of the vss. Here is a link to the other 11 verses which you overlooked. http://www.christianforums.com/t7463551-45/#post55041007 When all the passages are taken in-context they support my position.
 
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Der Alte

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That's not very scary. Can I do drugs, kill people, steal money and live the good life until I die? No church time, no preachers...then I die?

Sounds like a good deal to me.

Were you actually familiar with the NT you would know that 9 of the 10 commandments are reiterated in the NT as binding on NT Christians. The only one omitted is Sabbath observance. Mark 12:29-31, Matt 19:16-19, Rom 13:8-10. In addition the disciples, more than once, list several wrongful practices which will prevent believers from entering the kingdom. Rom 13:8-10, 1 Cor 6:9-10, Gal 5:19-21, Eph 5:3-5.
 
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Der Alte

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"Punishment" is not accurate. "Cause and effect" is more apt.

IF thou eat from the tree, thou shalt surely die.

Cause....Effect. Not punishment
.

"Punishment" is the word the Bible uses, that is the word I use. When God punishes the disobedient for not obeying his commandments, that is NOT cause and effect. Because God can and does withhold punishment for those who repent. If I accidentally hit my thumb with a hammer it will bruise and swell up, each and every time, that is cause and effect.
 
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Timothew

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Oh good for you read and replied to only the first 17 of the 28 passages. And your replies were neither insightful, intelligent, witty, nor informative. Some one line retorts which I have seen before and which did NOT address anything in detail, and several 2-3 word references to a previous vs. You addressed each vs. as if it had no relation to any other other vss. And of course you did not even address some of the vss. Here is a link to the other 11 verses which you overlooked. http://www.christianforums.com/t7463551-45/#post55041007 When all the passages are taken in-context they support my position.

I'm not sure how verses like these two, for example,
22] Luke 13: 23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
make the point that the wicked are burning forever in a lake of fire.
 
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Der Alte

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Even though it will fall on deaf ears here it is again anyway.

Ecc 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
Ecc 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
Ecc 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.


Dead!

I do remember someone else contradicting God about this too.


Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

I know this will fall on deaf ears and blind eyes, again, but I replied to this same argument Here!

As with most false religious groups, e.g. JW, LDS, UU, OP, anti-Trin MJ, WWCVG, kristadelfian, Jim Jones, David Koresh, etc. you take a piece of a verse here and a piece of a verse there, ignoring the context, i.e. who is speaking to whom, and under what circumstances, and think you are proving something that nobody else knows but you. The reason nobody knows what you think you know is because that is not what the Bible says! You're like some guy who opens the Bible and reads, "Judas hanged himself," opens it again and reads , "Go thou and do likewise" and thinks he is supposed to hang himself.

Everything in the Bible has a context. A text without a context is a pretext!! God said "Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch." But I am not going to build an ark because the context is God was going to destroy the world with a flood and he wanted to save Noah and his family in ark.
 
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Der Alte

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I'm not sure how verses like these two, for example,
DA said:
22] Luke 13: 23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able
.
make the point that the wicked are burning forever in a lake of fire.

I don't believe Jesus ever mentioned a "lake of fire." If these 2 vss. were all that Jesus ever said about the fate of the unrighteous, I would agree with you but he said many other things on different occasions and what Jesus taught about this must be based on everything he said. Jesus could not and did NOT teach the entire Bible every time he spoke. Therefore these 2 vss. must be understood in the light of everything Jesus said, e.g. Matt 18:8-9, 25:41-46, Mark 9:43-48, Luke 16:19-48. All of which I listed but I don't recall seeing any reply to.
 
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Timothew

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I'm not JW, LDS, UU, OP, anti-Trin MJ, WWCVG, kristadelfian, Jim Jones, David Koresh, etc.

I'm just asking questions. If the bible says we burn for eternity, I'm good with that (especially if I'm not the one that burns).

But if the bible says the wages of sin is death,
If the bible says, Whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish,
Well, I'm prepared to believe that as well.

I just want to know what the bible has to say on the subject of folks burning forever in hellfire. Perhaps the idea of hell is not so much biblical as it is Dante-esque.
 
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Chicken Little

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"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

It is not desirable for any human to go to hell. But even people who commit suicide can end up in hell. Even people who believe they are Christians can end up in hell.

yes because their last act was a worship of death... their life lived for death.


well even the first life he gave them was a gift a chance at something larger and more REAL. But are they thankful for it? they are not using it to their own better benefits. so they like sins benefits thus bury their life in a hole in the back yard and do not increase in his life.. we were all given a tiny bit of his life , it is up to us to lawfully increase in his life..
I mean it is his heaven! and if he only wants lawful and useful and content people, who know their own minds and can make decisions and stick to their own choices and don't have to LEARN BY destruction and decay, and they only chose LIFE his way on his terms. I mean he isn't going to let deathers and decayers into the next world to distroy it, he just can't let that happen.
you see the Lawful realize that they are not capable of even defining REAL Truth or real life...with out his help and his spirit .. if he only wants lawful to go to his heaven.. isn't that his right? It is HIS HEAVEN after all. it is His to offer us under his terms.
Other wise we all got a gift of one life to use as we saw fit! and they did just that! some of us here see fit to serve the author of that life because we see the results of what death and destruction has done in the world through those who only serve themselves and don't want to be part of anything of him!

some partially serve him with their only life and they are partially rewarded in this life.....

some serve him because he is a great father and funny fellow too,but mostly who else but him offered and has and can even define any kind of life! no one.
for more life...He asks for two things! only two to start the process ! and no one is willing to give those two things to him!
that is not his problem! he gave everyone one life he doesn't have to give anyone two lives.
 
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Der Alte

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I'm not JW, LDS, UU, OP, anti-Trin MJ, WWCVG, kristadelfian, Jim Jones, David Koresh, etc.

I'm just asking questions. If the bible says we burn for eternity, I'm good with that (especially if I'm not the one that burns).[/SIZE][/FONT]

Read the 28 passages in the two posts I linked to. What does Jesus say in e.g. Matt 18:8-9, 25:41-46, Mark 9:43-48, Luke 16:19-48. All of which I listed but I don't recall seeing any reply to.

But if the bible says the wages of sin is death,
If the bible says, Whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish,
Well, I'm prepared to believe that as well.

Context, context, context. This is "proof text" theology, a part of this verse and a part of that verse and "voila" we have a doctrine. Yes the "wages" of sin is death. God told Adam and Eve that in the day that they ate the forbidden fruit dying they would die, but they continued to live a few hundred years from that time.

I just want to know what the bible has to say on the subject of folks burning forever in hellfire. Perhaps the idea of hell is not so much biblical as it is Dante-esque.

The ancient Jews had a doctrine of punishment of the wicked in Gehenna hundreds of years before Dante. Both rabbinical schools in Israel at the time of Jesus, Hillel and Shammai taught that.

Revelation is also quite clear on what happens to the unrighteous.
Rev 14:9-11
(9)
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
(10) The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
(11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.​
Is there day and night in hell? Maybe, maybe not. I don't want to bet my eternal soul on this being figurative. With this double reference, John's first century audience would certainly have understood that torment was eternal, unending. Just as they would have understood that the elders before the throne served God eternally, without end; and the devil, the beast, and the false prophet are tormented eternally without end: .
Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.​
 
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Der Alte

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Ever wonder where Dante got his inspiration?

He very well may have gotten his inspiration from the ancient Jews who from the time Moses gave the law, believed in a literal place where the unrighteous were punishment in flames. For those who (choose to) miss it the scripture references are highlighted in blue.
Jewish Encyclopedia, GEHENNA
by : Kaufmann Kohler Ludwig Blau

The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch was originally in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). For this reason the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a); [Note, this is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT the bias of Christian translators.] according to Gen. R. ix. 9, the words "very good" in Gen. i. 31 refer to hell; hence the latter must have been created on the sixth day.

The "fiery furnace" that Abraham saw (Gen. xv. 17, Hebr.) was Gehenna (Mek. xx. 18b, 71b; comp. Enoch, xcviii. 3, ciii. 8; Matt. xiii. 42, 50; 'Er. 19a, where the "fiery furnace" is also identified with the gate of Gehenna). Opinions also vary as to the situation, extent, and nature of hell. The statement that Gehenna is situated in the valley of Hinnom near Jerusalem, in the "accursed valley" (Enoch, xxvii. 1 et seq.), means simply that it has a gate there. It was in Zion, and had a gate in Jerusalem (Isa. xxxi. 9). It had three gates, one in the wilderness, one in the sea, and one in Jerusalem ('Er. 19a). The gate lies between two palm-trees in the valley of Hinnom, from which smoke is continually rising (ib.).

Because of the extent of Gehenna the sun, on setting in the evening, passes by it, and receives from it its own fire (evening glow; B. B. 84a). A fiery stream ("dinur") falls upon the head of the sinner in Gehenna (hag. 13b).

There is a smell of sulfur in Gehenna (Enoch, lxvii. 6). This agrees with the Greek idea of hell (Lucian, Αληθεις Ιστοριαι, i. 29, in Dietrich, "Abraxas," p. 36). The sulfurous smell of the Tiberian medicinal springs was ascribed to their connection with Gehenna. In Isa. lxvi. 16, 24 it is said that God judges by means of fire.

Gehenna is dark in spite of the immense masses of fire; it is like night (Yeb. 109b; comp. Job x. 22). The same idea also occurs in Enoch, x. 4, lxxxii. 2; Matt. viii. 12, xxii. 13, xxv. 30 (comp. Schwally, l.c. p. 176).

It is assumed that there is an angel-prince in charge of Gehenna. He says to God: "Put everything into my sea; nourish me with the seed of Seth; I am hungry." But God refuses his request, telling him to take the heathen peoples (Shab. 104). God says to the angel-prince: "I punish the slanderers from above, and I also punish them from below with glowing coals" ('Ar. 15b).

Judgment.

It is assumed in general that sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell (B.M. 83b). To every individual is apportioned two shares, one in hell and one in paradise. At death, however, the righteous man's portion in hell is exchanged, so that he has two in heaven, while the reverse is true in the case of sinners (hag. 15a). Hence it would have been better for the latter not to have lived at all (Yeb. 63b).

They are cast into Gehenna to a depth commensurate with their sinfulness. They say: "Lord of the world, Thou hast done well; Paradise for the pious, Gehenna for the wicked" ('Er. 19a). There are three categories of men; the wholly pious and the arch-sinners are not purified, but only those between these two classes (Ab. R. N. 41). A similar view is expressed in the Babylonian Talmud, which adds that those who have sinned themselves but have not led others into sin remain for twelve months in Gehenna; "after twelve months their bodies are destroyed, their souls are burned, and the wind strews the ashes under the feet of the pious. But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).

As mentioned above, heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al.). " The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). (see image) Valley of Ge-Hinnom.(From a photograph by Bonfils.) The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according to Isa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b). Enoch also holds (xlviii. 9) that the sinners will disappear like chaff before the faces of the elect. There will be no Gehenna in the future world, however, for God will take the sun out of its case, and it will heal the pious with its rays and will punish the sinners (Ned. 8b).

Copyright 2002 JewishEncyclopedia.com. All rights reserved.

JewishEncyclopedia.com - GEHENNA
Here from the Talmud the teaching of Hillel and Shammai the two rabbinical schools in Israel at the time of Jesus.
Talmud - Tractate Rosh Hashana (New Year's Day)

R. Kruspedai said in the name of R. Johanan: Three books are opened on New Year's Day: one for the utterly wicked, one for the wholly good, and one for the average class of people. The wholly righteous are at once inscribed, and life is decreed for them; the entirely wicked are at once inscribed, and destruction destined for them; the average class are held in the balance from New Year's Day till the Day of Atonement; if they prove themselves worthy they are inscribed for life, if not they are inscribed for destruction. Said R. Abhin: Whence this teaching? From the passage [Psalms, lxix. 29]: "Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and they shall not be written down with the righteous."

We have learned in a Boraitha: The school of Shammai said: There are three divisions of mankind at the Resurrection: the wholly righteous, the utterly wicked, and the average class. The wholly righteous are at once inscribed, and life is decreed for them; the utterly wicked are at once inscribed, and destined for Gehenna, as we read [Dan. xii. 2]: "And many of them that sleep in the dust shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." The third class, the men between the former two, descend to Gehenna, but they weep and come up again, in accordance with the passage [Zech. xiii. 9]: "And I will bring the third part through the fire, and I will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried; and he shall call on My name, and I will answer him." Concerning this last class of men Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 6]: "The Lord causeth to die and maketh alive, He bringeth down to the grave and bringeth up again." The school of Hillel says: The Merciful One inclines (the scale of justice) to the side of mercy, and of this third class of men David says [Psalms, cxvi. 1]: "It is lovely to me that the Lord heareth my voice"; in fact, David applies to them the Psalm mentioned down to the words, "Thou hast delivered my soul from death" [ibid. 8].

Transgressors of Jewish birth and also of non-Jewish birth, who sin with their body descend to Gehenna, and are judged there for twelve months; after that time their bodies are destroyed and burnt, and the winds scatter their ashes under the soles of the feet of the righteous, as we read [Mal. iii. 23]: "And ye shall tread down the wicked, for they shall be as ashes under the soles of your feet"; but as for Minim, informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]: "And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written [Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more. Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces." R. Itz'hac b. Abhin says: "Their faces are black like the sides of a caldron"; while Rabha remarked: "Those who are now the handsomest of the people of Me'huzza will yet be called the children of Gehenna."

Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.
 
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Timothew

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Read the 28 passages in the two posts I linked to. What does Jesus say in e.g. Matt 18:8-9, 25:41-46, Mark 9:43-48, Luke 16:19-48. All of which I listed but I don't recall seeing any reply to.

God's fire is eternal. The wood is not. I guess you didn't understand what I meant by this. I was replying to Matt 18:8, You said, correctly "cast into eternal fire," So what happens to the people who are cast into eternal fire? They are burnt up. So this verse doesn't prove that God holds their feet over the fire for eternity.

I know this is frustrating, please be patient with me. You provided a lot of verses, but sheer quantity doesn't tell you anything, if the verses don't say what you want them to say. Verses saying the righteous will live forever don't say anything about the state of the unrighteous. Please cull your list to just what is pertinent.
 
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I just want to know what the bible has to say on the subject of folks burning forever in hellfire. Perhaps the idea of hell is not so much biblical as it is Dante-esque.

You can read what I believe about hell in another thread, if you want to. Here's the link and it's post #465. Just a suggestion.
 
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addo

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God's fire is eternal. The wood is not. I guess you didn't understand what I meant by this. I was replying to Matt 18:8, You said, correctly "cast into eternal fire," So what happens to the people who are cast into eternal fire? They are burnt up. So this verse doesn't prove that God holds their feet over the fire for eternity.
I have a verse that supports your argument:
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
(Jude 1:7)
No Sodom and Gomorrah burning today (and the fire didn't last forever either), thus being thrown into eternal fire doesn't mean eternal life in that fire. Sodom and Gomorrah were burnt with "eternal fire" but yet they (the cities) aren't burning today and neither is the "eternal" fire.
 
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Der Alte

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Read the 28 passages in the two posts I linked to. What does Jesus say in e.g. Matt 18:8-9, 25:41-46, Mark 9:43-48, Luke 16:19-48. All of which I listed but I don't recall seeing any reply to.

God's fire is eternal. The wood is not. I guess you didn't understand what I meant by this. I was replying to Matt 18:8, You said, correctly "cast into eternal fire,"

Where does any of the scripture I posted say anything about wood? A meaningless distinction which is not stated in scripture. "Eternal punishment" in contrast to "Eternal life." The same word does NOT have two different meanings in the same sentence spoken by Jesus.

So what happens to the people who are cast into eternal fire? They are burnt up. So this verse doesn't prove that God holds their feet over the fire for eternity.

Yes, lets just read this verse in isolation and ignore every other verse spoken by Jesus, such as Matt 25:41-46, Mark 9:43-48, Luke 16:19-48. The verse says nothing about them being burned up or destroyed.

I know this is frustrating, please be patient with me. You provided a lot of verses, but sheer quantity doesn't tell you anything, if the verses don't say what you want them to say. Verses saying the righteous will live forever don't say anything about the state of the unrighteous. Please cull your list to just what is pertinent.

I did not compile the list of scripture and write my comments in a few minutes, take as much time as you need to reply. I'll be here. I did this a few years ago, I got tired of replying to the same specious questions and arguments and having to research and type in the same replies over and over.

Verses saying the righteous will live forever don't say anything about the state of the unrighteous.
Mark 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Jesus did NOT say "Hey guys, don't worry about the worms and the fire, that doesn't really mean anything, you are instantly annihilated."
Matt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting [αιωνιον/aiónion] fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
[…]
46 And these [the cursed, vs. 41] shall go away into everlasting [αιωνιον/aiónion] punishment: but the righteous into life eternal [αιωνιον/aiónion].
The same word "eternal, [αιωνιον/aiónion]", cannot have two different meanings in one sentence!
 
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Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president
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I have a verse that supports your argument:

Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
(Jude 1:7)

No Sodom and Gomorrah burning today (and the fire didn't last forever either), thus being thrown into eternal fire doesn't mean eternal life in that fire. Sodom and Gomorrah were burnt with "eternal fire" but yet they (the cities) aren't burning today and neither is the "eternal" fire.

One out-of-context proof text while you, and others ignore, all the scripture that have been posted here. Guess eternal life, in Matt 25, doesn't mean eternal life either.

I understand that there are volcanic fires still burning in the area of Sodom and Gomorrah. Let us read another scholarly translation of this vs.
Jamieson, Faussett, Brown - suffering — undergoing to this present time; alluding to the marks of volcanic fire about the Dead Sea.

the vengeance — Greek, “righteous retribution.”

eternal fire — The lasting marks of the fire that consumed the cities irreparably, is a type of the eternal fire to which the inhabitants have been consigned. Bengel translates as the Greek will admit, “Suffering (the) punishment (which they endure) as an example or sample of eternal fire (namely, that which shall consume the wicked).” Eze_16:53-55 shows that Sodom’s punishment, as a nation, is not eternal. Compare also 2Pe_2:6.​
 
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