Let's Talk About Hell (4)

[LutheranMafia]

As ususal you have NO SENSE of HUMOR...

What is UPLIFTING ...is the TRUTH... You should try it sometime bro... maybe that neck will loosen up a bit!

People who claim to give the "TRUTH" are always full of BS. If you think you have the "TRUTH" then it is a guarantee that you have no idea what you are talking about.

As too all this other stuff you wrote, do you really think that people have as much time on their hands as you do in order to read all of this blather? It just goes on and on and on... I certainly don't have time for it.

But as to giving you a verbal hug, as you protest about (I read briefly) I can say that your salvation is not effected so much by your condemnation of others, which is all that you show here, but by your love for others, which I suspect is much more prevelent in your day to day communications than it is online.

Are you the spokesman for everyone now, LM? The TRUTH certainly DIVIDES itself from FALSE WITNESS...

If that is what you are referring to, well, its the nature of the progression... as JESUS CLEARLY said (and you have yet to hear)...

Matt 10:34-35 -- THINK NOT, that I am not COME TO send PEACE on earth, I came not to send PEACE, but a SWORD... I am come to set a man at VARIANCE against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law agasinst her mother in law... and a mans FOES shall be THEY of their own HOUSEHOLD! (christianity)




...SEE how you are? (not really!)

See there? You OPENLY admit that YOU are DISAGREEABLE -- SELDOM with "gradyll" and... NEVER with me...

I disagree frequently with Grady, I just don't make a big deal about it. He says that souls are immortal and I believe that souls can be killed too, as I have posted in contradiction to him. Only spirits cannot be destroyed. But you haven't noticed these contradictions because you are so caught up in your own conflict with him, running circles in your own mind.

That is what most of your posts are, running circles in your own mind, chasing your own tail.

So do you conclude that it is MY shortcoming to not "agree" with you? Or is it YOURS?

I didn't come here to "agree" with you or gradyll! I came here on behalf of TRUTH... If you do not agree with my viewpoints... then what else is new with Christians?

The METHODIST CHRISTIANS don't "agree" with the BAPTIST CHRISTIANS, ...and the BAPTISTS dont "agree" with the CATHOLIC CHRISTIANS, ...and the CATHOLICS dont agree with the ASSEMBLY of GOD CHRISTIANS... (and How 'bout them JW's and MORMONS, LM?) ...and ON, and ON, and ON...

What's NEW, LM? ...not much. That you and I disagree is MORE COMMON than that we might AGREE...

If you truly are in pursuit of the TRUTH, then SOMEHOW you must therefore, agree with CORRECTION? And wouldn't it be just the GREATEST IRONY, ...if that "CORRECTION" were given by God, to come via my voice... you'd be TOTALLY missing the boat, eh LM? Think about it.

So the voice of God comes from you? That would certainly be a surprise.

...Please... Hey... You GET ...what you GIVE, bro...

In WHAT WAY, have YOU ...EVER... given ME... said "VERBAL HUG" there Mr. "LutheranMafia"? ...it has been a bit UNDERWHELMING to this point!


Want a bro? Hereyago:

I FIRMLY believe that - YOU are a SON of the MOST HIGH!

There... now shall I expect that you shall give me the SAME degree of HUG? ...somehow, I don't think it to be in my best interests to HOLD MY BREATH waiting for it from you? ...most are centered upon themsSELVES... so you will TAKE... but GIVE? I'm thinkin', ...Nah! (prove me wrong!)


Now that you have recieved a "HUG" from me... what pray tell, shall "your VERBAL HUG" be to me... ...a big smoochie? Or another VERBAL, "kick in the teeth"?

...'SUP to U! Mr. HUG...



PEACE...


...willieH

My hug to you is that I think you are probably a civized person to people in your immediate presence as opposed to the way you are with people online.

There is something about being online that mysteriously does not encourage community and brotherly love, it encourages animosity and divisiveness. Your interactions here are a prime example. Clearly you are looking for something to hold on to, some kind of communal sense to your being. And yet all your posts are mocking attacks on the most obvious targets for disagreement. I think you need to examine yourself and why you are here.

 

[LutheranMafia]

I didn't come here to "agree" with you or gradyll! I came here on behalf of TRUTH... If you do not agree with my viewpoints... then what else is new with Christians?

The METHODIST CHRISTIANS don't "agree" with the BAPTIST CHRISTIANS, ...and the BAPTISTS dont "agree" with the CATHOLIC CHRISTIANS, ...and the CATHOLICS dont agree with the ASSEMBLY of GOD CHRISTIANS... (and How 'bout them JW's and MORMONS, LM?) ...and ON, and ON, and ON...

What's NEW, LM? ...not much. That you and I disagree is MORE COMMON than that we might AGREE...

So if you acknowledge that there are 3000 different denominations of Christianity, what makes you so certain that you have the "TRUTH"?

You seem to be saying that you have a "new" truth. Do you have a personal revelation from God? Given how divisive Christianity is, a personal revelation from God would be quite welcome, but somehow I doubt that God would do this for you. You are too full of yourself, and I think that God would choose someone who is an empty vessel to pour His personal revelation into.

 

[createdtoworship]

This is WAY too EASY!

I said in conversation in POST #732 (of this thread)... that -- "satan did not exist as a sentient being, physical or spiritual"

GRADYLL indeed MISREPRESENTED what I said, by EDITING it to SAY... that I SAID: "satan does not exist, huh" In POST #735 (of this thread).

This is a DIRECT example of the use of the STRAWMAN FALLACY.

Here are the posts if anyone wishes to INVESTIGATE:


I said THIS:






To which gradyll FALSELY responded by SAYING THIS:




I clearly stated: "for "satan" does not exist as a sentient being, physical or spiritual"


gradyll clearly MISREPRESENTED what I had said, by SAYING: "satan does not exist huh? "


CLEARLY removing/editing THE following WORDS and thereby MISREPRESENTING what indeed I DID SAY --- "...as a sentient being, physical or spiritual"

There are MANY other examples of gradyll's EDITING and EXAGGERATING...

Almost ALL of gradylls posts contain these STRAWMAN fallacies...

He LIES and EXAGGERATES and MISREPRESENTS just about everything in his replies, NEVER coming to the POINT or ADDRESSING the point... which indeed is the definition of the STRAWMAN term (link below)... deferring to other things, in an attempt to DISTRACT from addressing the POINT or question which was asked of him...

Straw man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


PEACE...


...willieH

thats all there is willie, if satan doesn't exist in the physical or spiritual realm, then He doesn't exist! How hard is that to figure out. Unless you say he exists in some alternate dimension.

 

[createdtoworship]

This guy must've gotten his theology off the subway walls... certainly NOT from the BIBLE...


Now its "286 times?" ...the terms SHEOL, HADES, GEHENNA, and TARTARUS are NEVER translated "FIRE"... NOT ONCE!

The OT (Hebrew) word for FIRE is -- ESH #H784 -- and,

The NT (Greek) word for FIRE is -- PUR #G4442 --

Neither of these terms are EVER used in reference to HELL ...let alone... "hundreds of times".

Does gradyll ever tire of LYING? He now says that HELL is in the KJV 286 times, which is also untrue... FIRST he says its 1308 times, ...now he says its 286 times...

Which is it? Well a LIAR cant ever remember which LIE he's told, so, to help him out, ...I'll tell you ----> NEITHER!



HERE is the TRUTH:

The HEBREW word SHEOL, and the GREEK words TARTARUS, GEHENNA and HADES are translated in the KJV as follows:

SHEOL is translated 31 times as GRAVE, and 31 times as HELL... and,

HADES is translated "HELL" -- 10 times... (31+10=41) and,

GEHENNA is translated "HELL" -- 11 times... (31+10+11=52) and,

TARTARUS is translated "HELL" -- 1 time... (31+10+11+1=53)

THAT'S IT!




A total of 53 times does ANY word find itself translated into the English word "HELL" in the KJV...


GRADYLL still must come up with 253 more, to fulfill his IMAGINARY belief... ...(maybe they're still in the subway).

Then maybe explain all of this...

After SAYING (as quoted below in his own words) that JESUS "spoke of Heaven 4642 times, and of HELL 1308 times"

His UNTRUTHFUL comments ARE what they ARE:




Originally Posted by gradyll

after your strawman attack on CARM, I noticed that 95% of their post was verses. Do you disagree with the Bible timothew? IF the post is "full of falsehoods" then you must not approve of God's Holy Word because it was simply a collection of verses. Secondly, you are correct in your assessment of the quote "Jesus spoke more of Hell than of Heaven." But the numbers are less than you think, He spoke of Heaven 4742 times, and of Hell 1308 times. So you are wrong saying it was 10 times more, when it is only about 4 times more. You have exaggerated with God's Holy Word!
​

The guy is just completely decieved, and it appears there is no hope to pull him out of that mud of deception...

Please do not fall for what HE SAYS... as I have clearly ILLUSTRATED that he alters words spoken to him... Pray, and then ...LOOK for YOURSELF!

COUNT them in your own CONCORDANCE... there are only 53 words which are MISTRANSLATED to the English word, HELL, in the KJV.

In TRUTH, ...JESUS spoke ARAMAIC, and never once used the word "HELL"...

The TRANLATORS of the Scriptures have INVENTED this DECEPTION, and HORRIBLY propose it to YOU.



PEACE...


...willieH

you are correct, in only the KJV there are only 54 verses about Hell. but I had my search engine on 20 versions when I did the count, I forgot and thought it was only the KJV. So now we know it was not a lie. But an honest mistake. (but doubt that you will be as gracious)


but as far as sheol being mistranslated as hell, think of this for a moment:


Psalm 9:17…

“The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.”


How can sheol merely mean the grave when the righteous go to the grave too? The verse says only the wicked go to the grave?


Psalm 139:8…

“If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.”

The contrast here is between Heaven and Hell; not between Heaven and the grave. Also notice the interesting phrase... "If I make my bed in hell." Everyone who goes to Hell chooses to go there by rejecting Jesus. It is sinful men who make their own bed in Hell. No sinner must go to Hell. The gift of eternal life is freely offered to all mankind through faith in Christ Jesus (John 14:6; Acts 10:43; Revelation 22:17).


Isaiah 5:14…

“Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.”

It wouldn't make any sense if "hell" merely meant the grave. What point would there be in condemning the wicked to hell if that's the same place where the righteous go? Clearly, Hell is a place only for the wicked who die in their sins. The righteous go to heaven to be with the Lord (2nd Corinthians 5:8).

from

Hell in the Scriptures

 

[createdtoworship]

So if you acknowledge that there are 3000 different denominations of Christianity, what makes you so certain that you have the "TRUTH"?

You seem to be saying that you have a "new" truth. Do you have a personal revelation from God? Given how divisive Christianity is, a personal revelation from God would be quite welcome, but somehow I doubt that God would do this for you. You are too full of yourself, and I think that God would choose someone who is an empty vessel to pour His personal revelation into.

He also believes one of his theological projects were the basis for an episode of "Lost" (post 654)

and that He is a professional musician.

 

[WillieH]

thats all there is willie, if satan doesn't exist in the physical or spiritual realm, then He doesn't exist! How hard is that to figure out. Unless you say he exists in some alternate dimension.

Once again for the deaf of EAR and blind of EYE,

1. I DID NOT SAY that "satan does not exist in the physical realm"...

2. I SAID (IN PLAIN ENGLISH, for the "millionth" TIME) that "satan does not exist as a sentient BEING, physical or spiritual"



Instead of HUMBLY admitting his lack, gradyll further (with huge PRIDE) makes more excuses...

The problem with gradyll (and many others like him such as CARM) is that he percieves "satan" to be a "HE"... "satan" is no more a "HE" then is LAUGHTER, CRYING or FEAR...


"satan" ABSOLUTELY "exists", just as do LAUGHTER, CRYING and FEAR! "satan" is just not what most percieve ("a BEING")...
"satan" is the PRINCIPLE of the adversity of the FLESH...

"satan" is an IT... the measure of ADVERSITY in the FLESHLY members of the human being which WAR against the SPIRIT within the LAW of ADVERSITY (the FLESH) which comes against the LAW of YHVH God (the SPIRIT)...


as PAUL so aptly noted:

Rom 7:23 --- But I see ANOTHER LAW[ADVERSITY/EVIL] ...IN ...MY ...MEMBERS [flesh], ...WARRING AGAINST [that ""LAW" being an adversary] the LAW of my mind [which DELIGHTS serving the command of GOD/GOOD] and bringing me into CAPTIVITY to the LAW of SIN which... is ...IN ...MY ...MEMBERS [flesh].

The WORD explains elsewhere that it is GOD which sends men INTO CAPTIVITY -- Jer 29:14 -- and it is GOD which DELIVERS them FROM IT... ("it" being "satan")



GOD does NOT EVER CHANGE -- Mal 3:6 -- James 1:17 -- Heb 13:8 -- If HE sent men into CAPTIVITY (which they cannot escape from themselves) ...then this is ALWAYS the TRUTH...

And if it TOOK GOD to DELIVER them from CAPTIVITY (in one case), ...then it will ALWAYS be the case that DELIVERANCE from IT, shall ALWAYS come from HIM...

1. It is GOD which brings forth EACH MAN into this realm (sends them into CAPTIVITY) -- John 1:9 -- and,

2. It is GOD which has CONCLUDED ALL in UNBELIEF -- Rom 11:32 -- (see Adam and Eve) and,

3. It is GOD which has made ALL MEN to DIE ...IN... ADAM -- 1 Cor 15:22

4. It is GOD which AUTHORS FAITH to BELIEVE, via His WORD -- Heb 12:2 -- and,

5. It IS the WORD [GOD] which IS the SAVIOR -- Isaiah 43:11 -- 1 Tim 4:9-11 -- wihich IS GOD -- John 3:16 -- then,

MEN have nothing to do with ANY of those decisions as GOD recieves NO COUNSEL from ANY MAN -- Rom 11:34 -- Isaiah 40:13 -- EVER!


It aint that hard! ...but MEN (such as gradyll) make it hard!

There is absolutely NO mention of some "talking snake" or "red guy with a pitchfork" is found in -- Jer 29:14 -- and.

GOD is "holding the cards"... and it is HE which deals them out into REALITY, in whatever way HE CHOOSES to as HE WORKS ALL THINGS -- Eph 1:11

It just amazes me how many RELIGIOUSLY BOUND and BLINDED men and women, can FLAT OUT DISREGARD the WORD when it is CLEARLY SPOKEN...



PEACE...


...willieH

 

[BeOfGoodCheer]

How could Satan not be a sentient being? Even the demons that Jesus encountered had consciousness and made requests to be spared. They were spiritual beings, lessor than Satan. I believe Satan delights in the fruits of darkness and sin. The defiance of God shows sentience.

 

[Sophrosyne]

How could Satan not be a sentient being? Even the demons that Jesus encountered had consciousness and made requests to be spared. They were spiritual beings, lessor than Satan. I believe Satan delights in the fruits of darkness and sin. The defiance of God shows sentience.

I think his definition of "being" is not the same as everyone else, it certainly does not match the dictionary based definition.

 

[WillieH]

So if you acknowledge that there are 3000 different denominations of Christianity, what makes you so certain that you have the "TRUTH"?

There is TRUTH in EVERY religion (aside from "satanism") on the face of the earth. For principles of TRUTH which is ETERNAL can be found in ALL of them. There are principles of HONOR found in ALL philosphies (some more than others) which aspire to the ALMIGHTY...

And for the RECORD, ...I have never said that I "have the TRUTH", ...YOU (just) DID.

I am, just as (possibly) are you, in a progressive SEARCH for TRUTH. I spent 25 years in the "church systems"... and at one time BELIEVED (though questioned) many things which I have come to find within that SEARCH, ...to be FALSE. Yes indeed, I spent MUCH of my time approximately 25 years (figuratively) sitting right next to you, bro.


Only GOD knows the TRUTH... and Only GOD, reveals it to whomsoever He shall... but ONLY THOSE who SEARCH with the WHOLE HEART, shall find the TRUTH... Those who "are in a half-hearted, once in awhile, when I have time"... "SEARCH"... will NOT find it.


GOD calls us to REASON with HIM -- Isaiah 1:18 -- so if any portion of our views is devoid of REASON...then those views must be QUESTIONED, then DISCARDED. And the observation which includes REASON... sought after in our on-going SEARCH (incorporating the WHOLE HEART)!


If you go to church on Sunday, and confess your sins... then leave church and go about your fleshly LIFE, then repeat the process on the next "Sunday"... you are hardly "SEARCHING" at all... and more importantly, LYING to YOURSELF, that you are doing so...

You seem to be saying that you have a "new" truth. Do you have a personal revelation from God? Given how divisive Christianity is, a personal revelation from God would be quite welcome, but somehow I doubt that God would do this for you. You are too full of yourself, and I think that God would choose someone who is an empty vessel to pour His personal revelation into.

FIRST --- I am no more "full of myself", than are you, brother LM...

Do you "have the "TRUTH"? And if you DO NOT... then are you thereby REJECTING what has been presented you in the areas which you DO NOT "have the TRUTH", ...and SEARCHING for IT with your WHOLE HEART? ...on a DAILY basis? If you are NOT, then your "SEARCH" is "half-hearted", not "whole hearted"...

Don't get me wrong. I have spent much of my time in a "half-hearted" SEARCH... and do not hold myself over you (or anyone else) in any way. But I am about RECOMMENDING that, ...ASAP... you get into a DAILY SEARCH of the WORD... reading, comparing, researching, DILIGENTLY.

I would ask you:

When you come upon CORRECTION of your present view (as you "SEARCH"), ...do you inspect the "correction" by comparing it with Scripture elsewhere in order to VERIFY it via the "2-3 witnesses" principle? And when your PREVIOUS belief, is thereby "CORRECTED", do you DROP that PREVIOUS BELIEF? Well, DOYA?

SELF DELUSION, is the most common state of the human heart -- Jer 17:9 -- which is DECEITFUL (even to ITSELF) ABOVE ...ALL THINGS...

And MANY if not MOST... are amidst that SELF-DECEIT... which is not really "SEEKING" and "SEARCHING", at all... but is mostly a member of a SOCIAL CLUB that meets once a week on Sunday or Saturday (depending on which denomination you might be affiliated with)




SECOND --- There never was, nor EVER will be, a "NEW" truth! You should already KNOW this if indeed you ARE truly SEARCHING for TRUTH!


To hear a revelation of that which is ETERNAL from the WORD, is not EVER something "NEW"! Not even! It is WONDEROUS gifting from the ETERNAL which has ALWAYS BEEN as it ...IS... not NEW, nor OLD, just ALWAYS TRUE


For me, it is a great HONOR to hear the GIFT of TRUTH being shared with me! If you are NOT SEARCHING to LEARN more, then you are NOT SEARCHING! And if THINGS might enter into your ears that you have never before HEARD, ...is that not what the SEARCH is ALL ABOUT, LM?


Yes, it is absolutely necessary to EXAMINE these "REVELATIONS" with other Scripture before EMBRACING them, but THAT TOO is part of the SEARCH, is it NOT?


The JEWS rejected CHRIST... because He spoke of "NEW" things which were CONTRARY to their RELIGION... and yet, you think to be different than they? Nah, ...You are EXACTLY as were THEY...


And if you find ANYTHING within the things which you BELIEVE are UNREASONABLE and IGNORE that discrepancy, ...then you FAIL to heed the instruction of the SCRIPTURES which CALL you unto REASON -- Isaiah 1:18 -- Is that what you do, LM? If that is what you DO... then obviously you have not HEARD the CALL... ...without ...EARS to HEAR... Left to yourSELF and to the PRIDE which engulfs you.



PRIDE of TRADITION, as was found in the JEWS, is also found in her daughter, the CHRISTIAN church... which instead of SEARCHING with the WHOLE HEART... goes to church each Sunday (wrong day of worship, btw), and sings a few choruses, speaks a little in tongues, swallows the ENTIRE SERMON of ONE MAN in one gulp... and then goes home, thinking he/she is cleansed, having EATEN his/her "once a week meal"... and has accomplished his/her "SEARCH" for the week...


LAYING comfortably in the BABYLONIAN lap of the DECEIT of the harlot -- Rev 17:5-- Drinking the wine of her FORNICATIONS...

The TV Evangelists and the HIERARCHY of each "denomination" are clearly spoken of here ---> Rev 18:3 -- to which GOD CALLS... "come out of HER my people" -- Rev 18:4 -- and goes on to say -- Rev 18:5 -- for HER SINS have reached unto Heaven, and GOD hath remembered HER INIQUITIES -- Matt 7:22-23



Failing to SEEK (sometimes not even bothering until "Sunday")... thinking that "wonderful works" have been done in that 2-3 hour period in Church... or that are found IN the MONEY which MANY percieve has been generously and righteously given to the poor -- Matt 7:22-23


This "MANY" shall find deep REGRET and REJECTION... and of one thing you can be SURE my friend, ...I shall not be counted amongst them!


YOU are more than welcome to your present course... Your life is yours... to waste or prosper as you might... But when it comes to the conclusion... no excuses BY ANY MAN, ...shall be considered... Please think about it.


What you do or say, does not in the least matter to me.


How your life is seen by GOD is between you and Him... But if you are depending on the PASTOR to hold your hand when you face YHVH... you are in for a big surprise. Each of us shall stand before Him... and though I have likely some UNREVEALED aspects to my viewpoints, they are not EXISTENT because I was "satisfied" with what the CHURCH taught, because I was "accepted" by them, and LOVED by them...


I would rather be LOVED by YHVH (one), then to be LOVED by ALL HUMANITY. Knowing that in my IMPERFECTION... I diligently sought HIM and HIS PERFECTION ...DAILY... not once a week.


My BIBLE is practically shredded from use... half of it marked up in places I have been within it.... and it is THAT BIBLE which is the witness to my LIFE... How about you LM?

You choose which is important to you... AGAIN, it doesn't matter to me what "you choose"!


PEACE...


...willieH

 

[WillieH]

How could Satan not be a sentient being? Even the demons that Jesus encountered had consciousness and made requests to be spared. They were spiritual beings, lessor than Satan. I believe Satan delights in the fruits of darkness and sin. The defiance of God shows sentience.

CHRIST was and referred to Himself, as a DOCTOR -- Luke 5:31 -- Matt 9:12 -- Healing the sick... The SICKNESSES invading the prosperity of LIFE which ANY DOCTOR deals with, are not SENTIENT... they are DISEASES which are CONTRARY to the welfare of LIFE...

The EVIDENCES of SICKNESS and DISEASE are not sentient, rather are OBSERVED by DOCTORS... and then dealt with, apart from any "communication" forthcoming of sentience


PEACE...


...willieH

 

[createdtoworship]

Once again for the deaf of EAR and blind of EYE,

1. I DID NOT SAY that "satan does not exist in the physical realm"...

2. I SAID (IN PLAIN ENGLISH, for the "millionth" TIME) that "satan does not exist as a sentient BEING, physical or spiritual"



Instead of HUMBLY admitting his lack, gradyll further (with huge PRIDE) makes more excuses...

The problem with gradyll (and many others like him such as CARM) is that he percieves "satan" to be a "HE"... "satan" is no more a "HE" then is LAUGHTER, CRYING or FEAR...


"satan" ABSOLUTELY "exists", just as do LAUGHTER, CRYING and FEAR! "satan" is just not what most percieve ("a BEING")...
"satan" is the PRINCIPLE of the adversity of the FLESH...

"satan" is an IT... the measure of ADVERSITY in the FLESHLY members of the human being which WAR against the SPIRIT within the LAW of ADVERSITY (the FLESH) which comes against the LAW of YHVH God (the SPIRIT)...


as PAUL so aptly noted:

Rom 7:23 --- But I see ANOTHER LAW[ADVERSITY/EVIL] ...IN ...MY ...MEMBERS [flesh], ...WARRING AGAINST [that ""LAW" being an adversary] the LAW of my mind [which DELIGHTS serving the command of GOD/GOOD] and bringing me into CAPTIVITY to the LAW of SIN which... is ...IN ...MY ...MEMBERS [flesh].

The WORD explains elsewhere that it is GOD which sends men INTO CAPTIVITY -- Jer 29:14 -- and it is GOD which DELIVERS them FROM IT... ("it" being "satan")



GOD does NOT EVER CHANGE -- Mal 3:6 -- James 1:17 -- Heb 13:8 -- If HE sent men into CAPTIVITY (which they cannot escape from themselves) ...then this is ALWAYS the TRUTH...

And if it TOOK GOD to DELIVER them from CAPTIVITY (in one case), ...then it will ALWAYS be the case that DELIVERANCE from IT, shall ALWAYS come from HIM...

1. It is GOD which brings forth EACH MAN into this realm (sends them into CAPTIVITY) -- John 1:9 -- and,

2. It is GOD which has CONCLUDED ALL in UNBELIEF -- Rom 11:32 -- (see Adam and Eve) and,

3. It is GOD which has made ALL MEN to DIE ...IN... ADAM -- 1 Cor 15:22

4. It is GOD which AUTHORS FAITH to BELIEVE, via His WORD -- Heb 12:2 -- and,

5. It IS the WORD [GOD] which IS the SAVIOR -- Isaiah 43:11 -- 1 Tim 4:9-11 -- wihich IS GOD -- John 3:16 -- then,

MEN have nothing to do with ANY of those decisions as GOD recieves NO COUNSEL from ANY MAN -- Rom 11:34 -- Isaiah 40:13 -- EVER!


It aint that hard! ...but MEN (such as gradyll) make it hard!

There is absolutely NO mention of some "talking snake" or "red guy with a pitchfork" is found in -- Jer 29:14 -- and.

GOD is "holding the cards"... and it is HE which deals them out into REALITY, in whatever way HE CHOOSES to as HE WORKS ALL THINGS -- Eph 1:11

It just amazes me how many RELIGIOUSLY BOUND and BLINDED men and women, can FLAT OUT DISREGARD the WORD when it is CLEARLY SPOKEN...



PEACE...


...willieH

Oxford dictionary states:

Sentience is from early 17th century: from Latin sentient- 'feeling', from the verb sentire

so it means that a being can feel.

So if satan is not a sentient being, and cannot feal the pains of either death or nonexistence or fires of Hell, then Satan is immune to Hell of any sort, the grave, the Lake of Fire etc.

But the beast and the false prophet are sentient beings of scripture.

So that would mean that satan would have an easier time of Hell, because He can't feel anything.

Would this be fair?

Secondly, if demons can't feel either...

why would they ask Christ a emotional question of torment and pain?

"And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?"
Matthew 8:29

torment means this:
"In the NT básanoi means “pains” in Mt. 4:24 and “torments” (of hell) in Lk. 16:23. basanízein means “to plague, torment” in Mt. 8:6 (the servant) and Mt. 8:29 (the demons). The boat is “battered” by the waves in Mt. 14:24. The reference in Rev. 12:2 is to “birth pangs.” Lot’s “torment” at the sight of wickedness is the point in 2 Pet. 2:8. basanismós occurs only in Revelation, and is actively the “torment” that comes on the race in 9:5 and passively the “suffering” of Babylon in 18:7ff. basanistḗs is used in Mt. 18:34, not for “tester,”‘ but for “tormentor.” [J. Schneider, I, 561-63]"

Kittel, Gerhard ; Friedrich, Gerhard ; Bromiley, Geoffrey William: Theological Dictionary of the New Testament. Grand Rapids, Mich. : W.B. Eerdmans, 1995, c1985, S. 96

thirdly, why would demons be afraid, if they were not sentient beings?

it says in the Bible that demons tremble at the idea of one God.

"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

James 2:19 KJV

Tremble means just that, "to shudder in fear"

"19. Tremble (φρίσσουσι&#957. Only here in New Testament. It means, originally, to be rough on the surface; to bristle. Hence, used of the fields with ears of corn; of a line of battle bristling with shields and spears; of a silver or golden vessel rough with embossed gold. Aeschylus, describing a crowd holding up their hands to vote, says, the air bristled with right hands. Hence, of a horror which makes the hair stand on end and contracts the surface of the skin, making “gooseflesh.” Rev., much better, shudder."


Vincent, Marvin Richardson: Word Studies in the New Testament. Bellingham, WA : Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2002, S. 1:744

 

[WillieH]

People who claim to give the "TRUTH" are always full of BS. If you think you have the "TRUTH" then it is a guarantee that you have no idea what you are talking about.

As too all this other stuff you wrote, do you really think that people have as much time on their hands as you do in order to read all of this blather? It just goes on and on and on... I certainly don't have time for it.

But as to giving you a verbal hug, as you protest about (I read briefly) I can say that your salvation is not effected so much by your condemnation of others, which is all that you show here, but by your love for others, which I suspect is much more prevelent in your day to day communications than it is online.



I disagree frequently with Grady, I just don't make a big deal about it. He says that souls are immortal and I believe that souls can be killed too, as I have posted in contradiction to him. Only spirits cannot be destroyed. But you haven't noticed these contradictions because you are so caught up in your own conflict with him, running circles in your own mind.

That is what most of your posts are, running circles in your own mind, chasing your own tail.

So the voice of God comes from you? That would certainly be a surprise.



My hug to you is that I think you are probably a civized person to people in your immediate presence as opposed to the way you are with people online.

There is something about being online that mysteriously does not encourage community and brotherly love, it encourages animosity and divisiveness. Your interactions here are a prime example. Clearly you are looking for something to hold on to, some kind of communal sense to your being. And yet all your posts are mocking attacks on the most obvious targets for disagreement. I think you need to examine yourself and why you are here.

What a pathetic answer, which is full of excuses...

1. Your "LOVE" (hug) is almost as UNDERWHELMING as is gradylls... and my prophecy of you concerning it, was RIGHT ON POINT!

2. You complain of my use of smiles, then do it yourself? This only identifies you as a ...HYPOCRITE.

3. I condemn NO one... and defy you to show where I have...



PEACE...


...willieH

 

[WillieH]

Oxford dictionary states:

Sentience is from early 17th century: from Latin sentient- 'feeling', from the verb sentire

so it means that a being can feel.

This is only PART of the definition of the word...

Gradyll only quotes the portion of the definition of "sentience" that benefit his misled position...

Sentience not only means "able to FEEL"... but it also means to be AWARE (only thinking entities can be "aware")... It also means FINELY sensitive in PERCEPTION (only thinking entities can "percieve")

"satan" is a principality and I have already proven it...

Otherwise, we must conclude that the Apostle PETER ...IS... "satan", as CHRIST Himself so "NAMED" Peter...

For a more thorough definition (which is NOT "partial" and thereby MISREPRESENTED by gradyll to protect his imaginary theology) go here:

Sentient - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary


PEACE...


...willieH

 

[createdtoworship]

This is only PART of the definition of the word...

Gradyll only quotes the portion of the definition of "sentience" that benefit his misled position...

Sentience not only means "able to FEEL"... but it also means to be AWARE (only thinking entities can be "aware")... It also means FINELY sensitive in PERCEPTION (only thinking entities can "percieve")

"satan" is a principality and I have already proven it...

Otherwise, we must conclude that the Apostle PETER ...IS... "satan", as CHRIST Himself so "NAMED" Peter...

For a more thorough definition (which is NOT "partial" and thereby MISREPRESENTED by gradyll to protect his imaginary theology) go here:

Sentient - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary


PEACE...


...willieH

all dictionaries state that sentient beings are beings that can feel. This definition is not partial to my theory, if all dictionaries state it. Maybe you didn't have an answer to the rest of the post so you had to attack the definition that was posted! If anything, you are the one showing partiality because you are taking AWAY from the definition that every single dictionary has!

You didn't respond to the following section so I will gladly repost it



So if satan is not a sentient being, and cannot feel the pains of either death or nonexistence or fires of Hell, then Satan is immune to Hell of any sort, the grave, the Lake of Fire etc.

But the beast and the false prophet are sentient beings of scripture.

So that would mean that satan would have an easier time of Hell, because He can't feel anything.

Would this be fair?

Secondly, if demons can't feel either...

why would they ask Christ a emotional question of torment and pain?

"And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?"
Matthew 8:29

torment means this:
"In the NT básanoi means “pains” in Mt. 4:24 and “torments” (of hell) in Lk. 16:23. basanízein means “to plague, torment” in Mt. 8:6 (the servant) and Mt. 8:29 (the demons). The boat is “battered” by the waves in Mt. 14:24. The reference in Rev. 12:2 is to “birth pangs.” Lot’s “torment” at the sight of wickedness is the point in 2 Pet. 2:8. basanismós occurs only in Revelation, and is actively the “torment” that comes on the race in 9:5 and passively the “suffering” of Babylon in 18:7ff. basanistḗs is used in Mt. 18:34, not for “tester,”‘ but for “tormentor.” [J. Schneider, I, 561-63]"

Kittel, Gerhard ; Friedrich, Gerhard ; Bromiley, Geoffrey William: Theological Dictionary of the New Testament. Grand Rapids, Mich. : W.B. Eerdmans, 1995, c1985, S. 96

thirdly, why would demons be afraid, if they were not sentient beings?

it says in the Bible that demons tremble at the idea of one God.

"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

James 2:19 KJV

Tremble means just that, "to shudder in fear"

"19. Tremble (φρίσσουσι&#957. Only here in New Testament. It means, originally, to be rough on the surface; to bristle. Hence, used of the fields with ears of corn; of a line of battle bristling with shields and spears; of a silver or golden vessel rough with embossed gold. Aeschylus, describing a crowd holding up their hands to vote, says, the air bristled with right hands. Hence, of a horror which makes the hair stand on end and contracts the surface of the skin, making “gooseflesh.” Rev., much better, shudder."


Vincent, Marvin Richardson: Word Studies in the New Testament. Bellingham, WA : Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2002, S. 1:744

 

[WillieH]

all dictionaries state that sentient beings are beings that can feel. This definition is not partial to my theory, if all dictionaries state it. Maybe you didn't have an answer to the rest of the post so you had to attack the definition that was posted! If anything, you are the one showing partiality because you are taking AWAY from the definition that every single dictionary has!

You didn't respond to the following section so I will gladly repost it



So if satan is not a sentient being, and cannot feel the pains of either death or nonexistence or fires of Hell, then Satan is immune to Hell of any sort, the grave, the Lake of Fire etc.

But the beast and the false prophet are sentient beings of scripture.

So that would mean that satan would have an easier time of Hell, because He can't feel anything.

Would this be fair?

Secondly, if demons can't feel either...

why would they ask Christ a emotional question of torment and pain?

"And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?"
Matthew 8:29

torment means this:
"In the NT básanoi means “pains” in Mt. 4:24 and “torments” (of hell) in Lk. 16:23. basanízein means “to plague, torment” in Mt. 8:6 (the servant) and Mt. 8:29 (the demons). The boat is “battered” by the waves in Mt. 14:24. The reference in Rev. 12:2 is to “birth pangs.” Lot’s “torment” at the sight of wickedness is the point in 2 Pet. 2:8. basanismós occurs only in Revelation, and is actively the “torment” that comes on the race in 9:5 and passively the “suffering” of Babylon in 18:7ff. basanistḗs is used in Mt. 18:34, not for “tester,”‘ but for “tormentor.” [J. Schneider, I, 561-63]"

Kittel, Gerhard ; Friedrich, Gerhard ; Bromiley, Geoffrey William: Theological Dictionary of the New Testament. Grand Rapids, Mich. : W.B. Eerdmans, 1995, c1985, S. 96

thirdly, why would demons be afraid, if they were not sentient beings?

it says in the Bible that demons tremble at the idea of one God.

"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

James 2:19 KJV

Tremble means just that, "to shudder in fear"

"19. Tremble (φρίσσουσι&#957. Only here in New Testament. It means, originally, to be rough on the surface; to bristle. Hence, used of the fields with ears of corn; of a line of battle bristling with shields and spears; of a silver or golden vessel rough with embossed gold. Aeschylus, describing a crowd holding up their hands to vote, says, the air bristled with right hands. Hence, of a horror which makes the hair stand on end and contracts the surface of the skin, making “gooseflesh.” Rev., much better, shudder."


Vincent, Marvin Richardson: Word Studies in the New Testament. Bellingham, WA : Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2002, S. 1:744

For some reason, ...after all this time, ...gradyll somehow STILL cannot understand that I am not the least bit interested in his COPIED Religion... which are the foolishnesses of other men... which gradyll LAZILY embraces in the stead of doing his own study, and thereby finding HIS OWN personal beliefs...


Until gradyll learns to RESPOND, he will get little or no (likely no) response from me. At least his buddy LM... knows how to address the points made to him, and regardless of his disagreement with most of the things I bring up, I do appreciate his ability to at least makes some semblance of DISCUSSION occur...

PEACE...


...willieH

 

[WillieH]

Btw... all a DICTIONARY really is, ...is a historical report of the uses of a given word and the meanings attached to them. The DICTIONARY is by no means the END-ALL of word meanings...

FOR EXAMPLE ---

(1) In the 40's-50's (70yrs agod), the word "GAY" meant HAPPY...

(2) Then in the 70's-80's the word "GAY" was used in reference to HOMOSEXUALS...

(3) Now here in 2011 the word "GAY" is used to mean something is LAME...

(4) if 10 years from now the word "GAY" is used in reference to (because it is so used) gradyll... then that meaning shall be found in the DICTIONARY as well!

So... which is the defintion of the word GAY?

ALL of the above...

PEACE...


...willieH

 

[Timothew]

The Bible is equivocal about a complex issue, in some respects yes, ordinary consciousness ceases, but that is not the sum toto of consciousness. And as far as common sense goes, you are speaking of the common sense of an atheist.

And of course none of this says anything about uplifting values. What in your belief that death, even ordinary death, is annihilation, is uplifting? Absolutely nothing. It is a belief that tears down faith, not building it up.

Yes, I am just like an atheist except that:
1. I believe in God.
2. I believe that God Resurrects us from death to eternal life.

(I guess I am not much like an atheist at all.)

I don't believe that death is uplifting. Death is the opposite of uplifting. Christ is uplifting, He lifts us up from death when He raises us to eternal life.

I have faith that Christ will resurrect us and give us eternal life. This is a belief that builds up faith. Telling someone they are going to hell to be tortured by God for all eternity tears down faith. The first question I would ask is why would I want to be with someone who tortures others?

 

[createdtoworship]

For some reason, ...after all this time, ...gradyll somehow STILL cannot understand that I am not the least bit interested in his COPIED Religion... which are the foolishnesses of other men... which gradyll LAZILY embraces in the stead of doing his own study, and thereby finding HIS OWN personal beliefs...


Until gradyll learns to RESPOND, he will get little or no (likely no) response from me. At least his buddy LM... knows how to address the points made to him, and regardless of his disagreement with most of the things I bring up, I do appreciate his ability to at least makes some semblance of DISCUSSION occur...

PEACE...


...willieH

prove that this post was copied! If you can willie. Because it was all original. The only parts copied were definitions since you never take my word for it.

secondly, you must not have the answer to my rebuttal about satan willie.

I will repost it again since you were obviously mistaken about the copying, and will give you yet a third chance to actually reply to it.

So if satan is not a sentient being, and cannot feel the pains of either death or nonexistence or fires of Hell, then Satan is immune to Hell of any sort, the grave, the Lake of Fire etc.

But the beast and the false prophet are sentient beings of scripture.

So that would mean that satan would have an easier time of Hell, because He can't feel anything.

Would this be fair?

Secondly, if demons can't feel either...

why would they ask Christ a emotional question of torment and pain?

"And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?"
Matthew 8:29

torment means this:
"In the NT básanoi means “pains” in Mt. 4:24 and “torments” (of hell) in Lk. 16:23. basanízein means “to plague, torment” in Mt. 8:6 (the servant) and Mt. 8:29 (the demons). The boat is “battered” by the waves in Mt. 14:24. The reference in Rev. 12:2 is to “birth pangs.” Lot’s “torment” at the sight of wickedness is the point in 2 Pet. 2:8. basanismós occurs only in Revelation, and is actively the “torment” that comes on the race in 9:5 and passively the “suffering” of Babylon in 18:7ff. basanistḗs is used in Mt. 18:34, not for “tester,”‘ but for “tormentor.” [J. Schneider, I, 561-63]"

Kittel, Gerhard ; Friedrich, Gerhard ; Bromiley, Geoffrey William: Theological Dictionary of the New Testament. Grand Rapids, Mich. : W.B. Eerdmans, 1995, c1985, S. 96

thirdly, why would demons be afraid, if they were not sentient beings?

it says in the Bible that demons tremble at the idea of one God.

"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

James 2:19 KJV

Tremble means just that, "to shudder in fear"

"19. Tremble (φρίσσουσι&#957. Only here in New Testament. It means, originally, to be rough on the surface; to bristle. Hence, used of the fields with ears of corn; of a line of battle bristling with shields and spears; of a silver or golden vessel rough with embossed gold. Aeschylus, describing a crowd holding up their hands to vote, says, the air bristled with right hands. Hence, of a horror which makes the hair stand on end and contracts the surface of the skin, making “gooseflesh.” Rev., much better, shudder."


Vincent, Marvin Richardson: Word Studies in the New Testament. Bellingham, WA : Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2002, S. 1:744

 

[createdtoworship]

This is only PART of the definition of the word...

Gradyll only quotes the portion of the definition of "sentience" that benefit his misled position...

Sentience not only means "able to FEEL"... but it also means to be AWARE (only thinking entities can be "aware")... It also means FINELY sensitive in PERCEPTION (only thinking entities can "percieve")

"satan" is a principality and I have already proven it...

Otherwise, we must conclude that the Apostle PETER ...IS... "satan", as CHRIST Himself so "NAMED" Peter...

For a more thorough definition (which is NOT "partial" and thereby MISREPRESENTED by gradyll to protect his imaginary theology) go here:

Sentient - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary


PEACE...


...willieH

When Christ named peter satan, He obviously wasn't meaning a principality of adversity. Because other places where people have sinned in scripture there is no account of satans name being used. Surely if satan is the principality of adversity, then IT is responsible for ALL sin? That is, if your theory is to be correct. Right willie? Secondly, according to the hermeneutical law of constancy, Jesus must have been referring to the acts of peter being similar to the acts of Satan. Jesus called the pharisees a brood of vipers, but in no way was He referring to them being reptiles. Rather it was an expression that they were acting in an animistic behavior similar to a snake.

 

[WillieH]

When Christ named peter satan, He obviously wasn't meaning a principality of adversity.

So sorry to be the one to inform, but of course He was, and anyone that can READ will see it pointed out in the REBUKE in -- Matt 16:23

As always ...once again with PURPOSE, ...gradyll IGNORES the rest of the REBUKE of Peter... which CLEARLY NOTES that PETER indeed was speaking in ADVERSITY to the MISSION of CHRIST, and promoting the THINGS of MEN... just as does gradyll... -- Matt 16:23

Matt 16:23 --- But He turned and SAID ---> UNTO PETER [speaking DIRECTLY to PETER, CHRIST said:]

"Get THEE behind Me "satan" THOU [Peter] art an offense to Me... for THOU [Peter] ...savorest NOT the things that be of GOD, ...BUT THOSE THAT BE OF MEN"...

(just as does ...gradyll = dallas the-ILLOGICAL cemetary)

The IGNORANT are left to their (false) RELIGIOUS TRADITION and their (prideful) IGNORANCE, ...certainly not the TRUTH!

Because other places where people have sinned in scripture there is no account of satans name being used

One who begins with a FALSE FOUNDATION, ends up with FALLACY, something gradyll does with the greatest of efficiency...

"satan" is NOT, and NEVER WAS, ...a "name"!

IT ...is a Hebrew WORD -- #H7854 / #H7853 -- which means ENEMY/ADVERSARY... and is so translated ADVERSARY / ADVERSARIES in the following OT verses -- 1 Sam29:4 --1 Kings 5:4 -- 1 Kings 11:14 - 1 Kings 11:23 -- 1 Kings 11:25 -- Numb 22:22 -- 2 Sam 19:22 - Psalm 38:20 -- Psalms 38:20 -- Psalms 109:4 -- Psalms 109:20 -- Psalms 109:29

Some people (like gradyll) ...NEVER LEARN...


PEACE...

...willieH