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Let's Talk About Hell (4)

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Merlinius

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Without reading all the posts, I'm supposing that wisdom has prevailed here after 94 pages and all folk who are filled with the Spirit of Christ know that "hell" simply means "grave" where the dead go in anihilation, right?
I noticed that Timothy has it right, anyone else?
 
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Without reading all the posts, I'm supposing that wisdom has prevailed here after 94 pages and all folk who are filled with the Spirit of Christ know that "hell" simply means "grave" where the dead go in anihilation, right?
I noticed that Timothy has it right, anyone else?

There is also a judgment.
And the wicked take part in the second Resurrection.
 
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Sophrosyne

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Without reading all the posts, I'm supposing that wisdom has prevailed here after 94 pages and all folk who are filled with the Spirit of Christ know that "hell" simply means "grave" where the dead go in anihilation, right?
I noticed that Timothy has it right, anyone else?
Are you implying that those who disagree with you don't have the spirit of Christ?
 
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createdtoworship

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"satan" is NOT, and NEVER WAS, ...a "name"!

IT ...is a Hebrew WORD -- #H7854 / #H7853 -- which means ENEMY/ADVERSARY... and is so translated ADVERSARY / ADVERSARIES in the following OT verses -- 1 Sam29:4 --1 Kings 5:4 -- 1 Kings 11:14 - 1 Kings 11:23 -- 1 Kings 11:25 -- Numb 22:22 -- 2 Sam 19:22 - Psalm 38:20 -- Psalms 38:20 -- Psalms 109:4 -- Psalms 109:20 -- Psalms 109:29

every name has an etymology willie, even Jesus' name! Jesus means "God's salvation" usually expressed as "Yahweh saves." So just because the name of Jesus has an etymology doesn't mean that it isn't in fact a name! It is the same with satan/lucifer!
 
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createdtoworship

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Without reading all the posts, I'm supposing that wisdom has prevailed here after 94 pages and all folk who are filled with the Spirit of Christ know that "hell" simply means "grave" where the dead go in anihilation, right?
I noticed that Timothy has it right, anyone else?

actually sheol doesn't just mean the grave:

Psalm 9:17…

“The wicked shall be turned into hell (sheol), and all the nations that forget God.”


How can sheol merely mean the grave when the righteous go to the grave too? The verse says only the wicked go to the grave?

Isaiah 5:14…

“Therefore hell (sheol) hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.”

It wouldn't make any sense if "hell" merely meant the grave. What point would there be in condemning the wicked to hell if that's the same place where the righteous go? Clearly, Hell is a place only for the wicked who die in their sins. The righteous go to heaven to be with the Lord (2nd Corinthians 5:8).

from

Hell in the Scriptures
 
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NEW SONG

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actually sheol doesn't just mean the grave:

Psalm 9:17…

“The wicked shall be turned into hell (sheol), and all the nations that forget God.”


How can sheol merely mean the grave when the righteous go to the grave too? The verse says only the wicked go to the grave?

Isaiah 5:14…

“Therefore hell (sheol) hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.”

It wouldn't make any sense if "hell" merely meant the grave. What point would there be in condemning the wicked to hell if that's the same place where the righteous go? Clearly, Hell is a place only for the wicked who die in their sins. The righteous go to heaven to be with the Lord (2nd Corinthians 5:8).

from

Hell in the Scriptures

So you dead body when you die will not go to the grave?????

condemn also means to probate or judge. God's judgements are corrective not punative

Ecclesiastes 12: 7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Yes the wicked will be punished (pruned/chastised) but for ages not forever and ever until God calls them.

The Apostle Peter explained that "Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is eight souls were saved by water." (I Pet.3:18-20).

Obviously, since those disobedient spirits were from the days of Noah, Jesus preached to the dead. Here is a clear inference that death is NOT the end of the story! I can't leave this passage without commenting on the fact that Jesus went to hell to preach to those languishing there, showing us that there is nowhere too far removed for God to go after his wayward children.

If we make our bed in hell, the Psalmist declares, we will find Him there. (Ps. 139:8). The word hell, in most instances in the New Testament should be translated "Hades," meaning only the resting place of the dead, not the everlasting flames of torment that the church says it means.
 
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Merlinius

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Lol, well I guess not.

"hell 101"...

Everyone goes to hell. Sheol. Hades. The grave. Even Jesus.

It is just... the... grave... lol.

(Psa 16:10) For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell (SHEOL-GRAVE); neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

(Act 2:27) Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell (HADES-GRAVE), neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Grrr - ave.

The place that has no power over Holy Spirit filled Christians;

(1Co 15:55) O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

That "second death" has no power over us, Praise Jesus.

There is no more to be added. That will only give those who add to this a curse;

(Rev 22:18) For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

That includes the carnal scripture wresters who make hell out to be some Dante's inferno type torture place over pagan ideas of disembodied souls/spirits. That is simply pagan.

No Holy Spirit filled person would believe that. That kind of a God they believe to allow such a thing does not exist.

A word to the wise.
 
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NEW SONG

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Lol, well I guess not.

"hell 101"...

Everyone goes to hell. Sheol. Hades. The grave. Even Jesus.

It is just... the... grave... lol.

(Psa 16:10) For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell (SHEOL-GRAVE); neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

(Act 2:27) Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell (HADES-GRAVE), neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Grrr - ave.

The place that has no power over Holy Spirit filled Christians;

(1Co 15:55) O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

That "second death" has no power over us, Praise Jesus.

There is no more to be added. That will only give those who add to this a curse;

(Rev 22:18) For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

That includes the carnal scripture wresters who make hell out to be some Dante's inferno type torture place over pagan ideas of disembodied souls/spirits. That is simply pagan.

No Holy Spirit filled person would believe that. That kind of a God they believe to allow such a thing does not exist.

A word to the wise.

The second death is not hell.

Is the death of the first death when we all did in Adam.
 
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tackattack

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actually sheol doesn't just mean the grave:

Psalm 9:17…

“The wicked shall be turned into hell (sheol), and all the nations that forget God.”


How can sheol merely mean the grave when the righteous go to the grave too? The verse says only the wicked go to the grave?

Isaiah 5:14…

“Therefore hell (sheol) hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.”

It wouldn't make any sense if "hell" merely meant the grave. What point would there be in condemning the wicked to hell if that's the same place where the righteous go? Clearly, Hell is a place only for the wicked who die in their sins. The righteous go to heaven to be with the Lord (2nd Corinthians 5:8).

from

Hell in the Scriptures

Barne's commentary on psalms 9:17

Into hell - - לשׁאולה lishe'ôlâh - to Sheol, Hades, the grave, the world of departed spirits. This is the usual meaning of this word. See Luke 16:23, note; Isaiah 14:9, note; Job 10:21-22, note. Though the word, however, originally denoted the grave, the region of the dead, the world of departed spirits, yet it was also supposed that there was a distinction in the condition of the dead; and the word gradually came to denote the abode of the wicked portion of the dead, and hence, the place of future punishment. So it is undoubtedly used in Luke 16:23. It is clear
(a) that this cannot be understood here as referring to the grave in its ordinary sense, for the righteous will be as certainly consigned to the, grave, or will as certainly die, as the wicked;
(b) that it cannot refer to the invisible world, the abodes of the dead, in the ordinary sense of the term - for it is as true that the righteous will enter that world as that sinners will.
There must be some sense, in which the word is used here, different from that of the grave, or different merely from death as such. This sense can be only one of two - either:
(1) that the author means that they will be cut off by a sudden and violent death, considered as a calamity or as a punishment; or
(2) that he regarded the Sheol mentioned here as a place of punishment.
Calvin thinks it is not improbable that the former of these is intended; but it may be observed in regard to this,
(a) that this is not the language usually employed to denote that idea - the phrase, to be cut off, or cut down, being that which a writer intending to express that idea, would most naturally use - since the phrase, to be sent to Sheol, considered as the grave or the region of the dead, would express nothing special in regard to the wicked; and
(b) the spirit of the passage seems to demand the idea that the wicked referred to here would he consigned to a place of punishment, that they would be cut off as wicked persons, and treated accordingly.
This interpretation is strengthened by the other member of the parallelism, where it is said, "and all the nations that forget God;" since it is no more true that the nations "that forget God" will be "turned into the grave, or the world of departed spirits," than it is that the nations that serve and obey him will. It seems to me, therefore, that this is one of the passages in which it is clear that the word Sheol had connected with it the idea of punishment beyond the grave - of a region where the wicked would be treated according to their deserts, and in a manner different from the treatment of the righteous; that although the general idea of that under-world was that it was a dark and gloomy place, yet that there was also the idea that the abode of the wicked there was far more gloomy than that of the righteous; and that it was regarded as a punishment to be consigned to that region. It is not necessary to suppose that they had the full idea attached to the word hell which we have, anymore than that they had the same full and clear idea of heaven that we have. Light has come into our world on all these subjects gradually, and there is nothing which requires us to suppose that the earlier sacred writers lind the same clear views which the later writers had, or that either of them knew all that is to be known. Compare 1 Peter 1:10-11.
 
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createdtoworship

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So you dead body when you die will not go to the grave?????

condemn also means to probate or judge. God's judgements are corrective not punative

Ecclesiastes 12: 7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Yes the wicked will be punished (pruned/chastised) but for ages not forever and ever until God calls them.

The Apostle Peter explained that "Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is eight souls were saved by water." (I Pet.3:18-20).

Obviously, since those disobedient spirits were from the days of Noah, Jesus preached to the dead. Here is a clear inference that death is NOT the end of the story! I can't leave this passage without commenting on the fact that Jesus went to hell to preach to those languishing there, showing us that there is nowhere too far removed for God to go after his wayward children.

If we make our bed in hell, the Psalmist declares, we will find Him there. (Ps. 139:8). The word hell, in most instances in the New Testament should be translated "Hades," meaning only the resting place of the dead, not the everlasting flames of torment that the church says it means.

But yes, eternal torment fits the majority of scripture in a most systematic way.

How do you explain these verses without a contradiction to your view?

Cast to outer darkness with weeping and gnashing of teeth
Matt. 8:12, "but the sons of the kingdom shall be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Those cast into the fire suffer consciously
Matt. 13:41-42, "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire; in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” See also Matt. 13:50.

Cast into a tormenting fire
Rev. 14:9-11, "And another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or upon his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."” See also, Rev. 21:8.

Thrown into the lake of Fire
"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

Hell is a place of eternal fire and punishment

Unquenchable Fire
Matt. 3:12 "And His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

Fiery Hell
Matt. 5:22, "whoever shall say, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell." See also, Matt. 5:29,30.

Fiery Hell
Matt. 18:8-9, "And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal fire. 9 "And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out, and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than having two eyes, to be cast into the fiery hell."

Eternal Fire
Matt. 25:41, "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels.

Eternal Punishment
Matt. 25:46, "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

The word "eternal" in both places is "aionios" which means 1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be; 2) without beginning; 3) without end, never to cease, everlasting. The word "punishment" is the word "kolasis" and it means "to punish, with the implication of resulting severe suffering - 'to punish, punishment.'"5

Eternal Fire
Jude 7, "Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire."

Thrown into the lake of Fire
"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

Lake of Fire
Rev. 20:15, "And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."
Luke 16:19-31, Lazarus and the Rich Man

In Luke 16:19-31 is the story of Lazarus and the rich man. Basically, Lazarus is a poor man who suffers during life. The rich man is, of course, rich. They both die. The rich man goes to Hades. Lazarus goes to Abraham's bosom, another term for paradise. In Hades, the rich man lifts up his eyes and sees Lazarus far off. He cries out to Abraham and asks for mercy because he is in agony in flame. Abraham says no. Then the rich man asks if someone from the dead were to rise and go tell his brothers not to come to this terrible place. Abraham teaches him that that will not be done either.

Some say that this is a parable. However, if it is, it is unique because no other parable actually names a person. It isn't a story. It is history. It really happened. But many who believe in no consciousness after death will say it is still a parable. The question is then, if it is a parable what is it teaching? If hell fire is false and if self-awareness after death is also false, then Jesus is using false doctrines to teach a truth. Parables illustrate truth. If it is a parable, what does the consciousness after death symbolize? Also, what does the agony in flame symbolize? Are they not real? Of course they are.
Conclusion

Hell is a real place. It is not mere unconsciousness. It is not temporal. It is eternal torment. Perhaps that is why Jesus spoke more of hell than heaven and spent so much time warning people not to go there. After all, if people just stopped existing, why warn them? If it was temporal, they'd get out in a while. But if it were eternal and conscious, then the warning is strong.

Jesus said, "And if your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 "And if your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to go into hell," (Matt. 5:29-30).

from CARM.org
 
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createdtoworship

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Barne's commentary on psalms 9:17

Into hell - - לשׁאולה lishe'ôlâh - to Sheol, Hades, the grave, the world of departed spirits. This is the usual meaning of this word. See Luke 16:23, note; Isaiah 14:9, note; Job 10:21-22, note. Though the word, however, originally denoted the grave, the region of the dead, the world of departed spirits, yet it was also supposed that there was a distinction in the condition of the dead; and the word gradually came to denote the abode of the wicked portion of the dead, and hence, the place of future punishment. So it is undoubtedly used in Luke 16:23. It is clear
(a) that this cannot be understood here as referring to the grave in its ordinary sense, for the righteous will be as certainly consigned to the, grave, or will as certainly die, as the wicked;
(b) that it cannot refer to the invisible world, the abodes of the dead, in the ordinary sense of the term - for it is as true that the righteous will enter that world as that sinners will.
There must be some sense, in which the word is used here, different from that of the grave, or different merely from death as such. This sense can be only one of two - either:
(1) that the author means that they will be cut off by a sudden and violent death, considered as a calamity or as a punishment; or
(2) that he regarded the Sheol mentioned here as a place of punishment.
Calvin thinks it is not improbable that the former of these is intended; but it may be observed in regard to this,
(a) that this is not the language usually employed to denote that idea - the phrase, to be cut off, or cut down, being that which a writer intending to express that idea, would most naturally use - since the phrase, to be sent to Sheol, considered as the grave or the region of the dead, would express nothing special in regard to the wicked; and
(b) the spirit of the passage seems to demand the idea that the wicked referred to here would he consigned to a place of punishment, that they would be cut off as wicked persons, and treated accordingly.
This interpretation is strengthened by the other member of the parallelism, where it is said, "and all the nations that forget God;" since it is no more true that the nations "that forget God" will be "turned into the grave, or the world of departed spirits," than it is that the nations that serve and obey him will. It seems to me, therefore, that this is one of the passages in which it is clear that the word Sheol had connected with it the idea of punishment beyond the grave - of a region where the wicked would be treated according to their deserts, and in a manner different from the treatment of the righteous; that although the general idea of that under-world was that it was a dark and gloomy place, yet that there was also the idea that the abode of the wicked there was far more gloomy than that of the righteous; and that it was regarded as a punishment to be consigned to that region. It is not necessary to suppose that they had the full idea attached to the word hell which we have, anymore than that they had the same full and clear idea of heaven that we have. Light has come into our world on all these subjects gradually, and there is nothing which requires us to suppose that the earlier sacred writers lind the same clear views which the later writers had, or that either of them knew all that is to be known. Compare 1 Peter 1:10-11.

so your commentary agrees that sheol is not always the grave, but can mean Hell as well. I agree too.
 
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createdtoworship

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The second death is not hell.

Is the death of the first death when we all did in Adam.

uuuhm

yes the second death is hell


Revelation 20:14
And death and sheol were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
 
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Timothew

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uuuhm

yes the second death is hell


Revelation 20:14
And death and sheol were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Revelation 20:14
And death and sheol were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
The second death is not hell.
 
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NEW SONG

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To believe that Jesus is going to torture billions upon billions of people He never called forever and ever is but a lack of spiritual decernment. It is the same as Jews during Jesus day whos traditions made God's Word of no effect.

Religious man is so caught up with the traditions and creeds and dogmas there is no room for divine truth. It is like a vessel full of old wine; there is no room for the new wine of the spirit.

Their whole approach to the Bible is totally wrong this is obviously by the fact you they cannot receive the new wine of the spirit or the revelation of God’s Word. His spiritual Word has always been their but men understand only the letter that killeth.

You sit and discuss all the belief you have been taught though out the ages from one generation to another and hang on to these beliefs as if they were the truth; but in actually all you have created is a dogma or creed that hold little truth, When some out side of that nest tries to show you something wrong using God’s Word you cannot receive it. Just like the Jews during Jesus day the same pattern continues by religious men; that is why so many verses in God’s do not fit in your warn out wine skin. God’s Word is a progressive Word, a spiritual Word it flows and grows like the old hymn "There is a River that flows from deep with in"

Mark 7:13

Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Colossians 2:8
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
 
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uuuhm

yes the second death is hell


Revelation 20:14
And death and sheol were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Again you take a verse out of context and call it truth. I like how J Preston Eby put it.

The fourth horse, the Pale Horse. "And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, come and see. And I looked, and lo a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with the sword (Word of God), and with hunger (lack of spiritual food), and with death, and with the beasts of the earth (our beastly carnal nature." (Rev. 6:7-8).

There is a significance to the description of the fourth horseman -- he whose name is Death -- and Hell followed with him. Death and Hades are specially linked in the Revelation.

Christ destroyed him that had the power of death, that is, the devil (Heb. 2:14), Christ came and abolished death (II Tim. 1:10) He now boldly proclaims: "I am He that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the KEYS OF HELL AND OF DEATH" (Rev. 1:18).

And since the Christ now possesses both hades and death neither of them ride anywhere except by His power and will!

This horse is given power over the fourth part of the earth-realm, to kill with the sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

This "fourth part of the earth" is clearly that portion of earthiness not already dealt with by the three preceding horses. It means the final destruction of everything within us that is contrary to HIS life and kingdom. To kill with DEATH There is an amazing statement in the passage that we do not want to miss. "And power was given unto Him to kill...with death."!

How does Jesus kill with death?
"Our God is a consuming fire. To kill with death means a death by death. Later on in the book of Revelation the same truth is presented thus: "Death and hell were cast into the lake of Fire. This is the second death" (Rev. 20:14).

Now let us turn this around for clarity. "The second death IS death and hell cast into the lake of fire." Therefore we have exactly the same meaning either way it is stated. What is the second death? It is the first death and hell cast into the lake of fire! " This fact is extremely IMPORTANT. The second death is not merely the lake of fire. Nor is the second death men being tortured forever in the lake of fire.

The second death is the first death and hell CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE. That is the God's Spirit's definition, not mine. Can we now open the eyes of our understanding to see that everything cast into the lake of fire pertains to DEATH? Death itself is cast into the lake of fire.
Hades, the realm of the dead, is cast into the lake of fire.
And those whose names are not written in the Book of Life, i.e. those who are dead, in trespasses and in sins, who inhabit hades, are cast into the lake of fire.

This is the end of death and hades and sin and sinners, for God shall destroy the whole realm of death in the lake of fire. He shall burn up hell in the lake of fire, He shall destroy death in the lake of fire, and He shall consume sin in the lake of fire. How I long to see the end of sin and death and hades!

It is clear that God does not destroy men in the lake of fire, nowhere does it say that, for that would be a contradiction of terms. How can you destroy death by creating death? How can you abolish death by bringing men under the power of eternal death from which there is no escape? Oh, no, it is not men who are destroyed in the lake of fire -- it is sin and death and hades that are destroyed.

"And the last enemy that shall be destroyed is death" (I Cor. 15:26). "And there shall be no more death: for the former things are passed away" (Rev. 21:4). Thus, the lake of fire is nothing more nor less than THE DEATH OF DEATH! "And power was given unto them to kill...with death. " 0, the wonder of it!
 
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NEW SONG

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But yes, eternal torment fits the majority of scripture in a most systematic way.

How do you explain these verses without a contradiction to your view?

Cast to outer darkness with weeping and gnashing of teeth
Matt. 8:12, "but the sons of the kingdom shall be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Those cast into the fire suffer consciously
Matt. 13:41-42, "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire; in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” See also Matt. 13:50.

Cast into a tormenting fire
Rev. 14:9-11, "And another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or upon his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."” See also, Rev. 21:8.

Thrown into the lake of Fire
"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

Hell is a place of eternal fire and punishment

Unquenchable Fire
Matt. 3:12 "And His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

Fiery Hell
Matt. 5:22, "whoever shall say, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell." See also, Matt. 5:29,30.

Fiery Hell
Matt. 18:8-9, "And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal fire. 9 "And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out, and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than having two eyes, to be cast into the fiery hell."

Eternal Fire
Matt. 25:41, "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels.

Eternal Punishment
Matt. 25:46, "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

The word "eternal" in both places is "aionios" which means 1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be; 2) without beginning; 3) without end, never to cease, everlasting. The word "punishment" is the word "kolasis" and it means "to punish, with the implication of resulting severe suffering - 'to punish, punishment.'"5

Eternal Fire
Jude 7, "Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire."

Thrown into the lake of Fire
"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

Lake of Fire
Rev. 20:15, "And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."
Luke 16:19-31, Lazarus and the Rich Man

In Luke 16:19-31 is the story of Lazarus and the rich man. Basically, Lazarus is a poor man who suffers during life. The rich man is, of course, rich. They both die. The rich man goes to Hades. Lazarus goes to Abraham's bosom, another term for paradise. In Hades, the rich man lifts up his eyes and sees Lazarus far off. He cries out to Abraham and asks for mercy because he is in agony in flame. Abraham says no. Then the rich man asks if someone from the dead were to rise and go tell his brothers not to come to this terrible place. Abraham teaches him that that will not be done either.

Some say that this is a parable. However, if it is, it is unique because no other parable actually names a person. It isn't a story. It is history. It really happened. But many who believe in no consciousness after death will say it is still a parable. The question is then, if it is a parable what is it teaching? If hell fire is false and if self-awareness after death is also false, then Jesus is using false doctrines to teach a truth. Parables illustrate truth. If it is a parable, what does the consciousness after death symbolize? Also, what does the agony in flame symbolize? Are they not real? Of course they are.
Conclusion

Hell is a real place. It is not mere unconsciousness. It is not temporal. It is eternal torment. Perhaps that is why Jesus spoke more of hell than heaven and spent so much time warning people not to go there. After all, if people just stopped existing, why warn them? If it was temporal, they'd get out in a while. But if it were eternal and conscious, then the warning is strong.

Jesus said, "And if your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 "And if your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to go into hell," (Matt. 5:29-30).

from CARM.org

Every scripture you quoted here has been refuted over and over again to you but you still have not the spiritual decernment to understand the deep things are God are hidden.


MT Zion is Universal Salvation. Do you understand this?
 
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NEW SONG

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The message of the Tabernacle of David is an offense to all of God's people who are so locked into the heresy's of damnation they do not see the savior who saves not damns. The wrath of the lamb. Mt Zion is the tabernacle of David for that is where the Tabernacle of David is/was located

Mt Zion is a stumblingstone and rock of offence to those who approach God’s Word with religious bias eyes. Mt Zion is where the Tabernacle of David was brought.

1 Peter 2
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

Romans 9
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
 
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Merlinius

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There is also a judgment.
And the wicked take part in the second Resurrection.

There is no such thing as a "second resurrection". Chapter and verse please if you think otherwise. That is a false doctrine.

The judgement is simply our life's course resulting in Life or death.

This is by the Word that Jesus spoke to us. Not an "event".

(Joh 12:48) He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

The day you breath your last breath on this planet, the "judgement" of Christ's Word will conclude.

By the same Jesus and by THIS Word of His, I receive THIS judgement;

(Joh 15:3) Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

That is how it works :)
Not some futuristic world wide tribunal lol. That is fiction.
 
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WillieH

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Without reading all the posts, I'm supposing that wisdom has prevailed here after 94 pages and all folk who are filled with the Spirit of Christ know that "hell" simply means "grave" where the dead go in anihilation, right?
I noticed that Timothy has it right, anyone else?

I vote in favor of GRAVE... which is the correct translation of HADES, TARTARUS and SHEOL... As far as GEHENNA, it was common JEWISH knowledge that it represented a place of SHAME, ...NOT once was a LIVING person ever cast into it. ;)


PEACE... :groupray:


...willieH :clap:
 
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