Let's Talk About Hell (4)

[LutheranMafia]

He didn't contradict Matthew 10:28.
καὶ μὴ φοβηθῆτε ἀπὸ τῶν ἀποκτεινόντων τὸ σῶμα, τὴν δὲ ψυχὴν μὴ δυνάμενων ἀποκτεῖναι· φοβεῖσθε δὲ μᾶλλον τὸν δυνάμενον καὶ ψυχὴν καὶ σῶμα ἀπολέσαι ἐν γεέννῃ.

And don't be afraid of those that kill the body but cannot kill the life - Rather fear the one who is able to destroy both life and body in gehenna.

That doesn't make any sense, Timothew.

 

[Timothew]

That doesn't make any sense, Timothew.

Sorry, It's the original greek.
I posted the translation under it.

My bad.

 

[LutheranMafia]

Sorry, It's the original greek.
I posted the translation under it.

My bad.

I was referring to your translation. What versions of the Bible is that? It makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Timothew]

I was referring to your translation. What versions of the Bible is that? It makes absolutely no sense.

It isn't from any version, it is a translation from the original language.

 

[LutheranMafia]

The wages of sin is DEATH.

And you are wrong about what death means from start to finish. Death is not the end of consciousness, even though atheists disagree.

 

[LutheranMafia]

It isn't from any version, it is a translation from the original language.

Surprise surprise, it is your own concoction. That explains why it makes so little sense.

 

[Sophrosyne]

And you are wrong about what death means from start to finish. Death is not the end of consciousness, even though atheists disagree.

You know one thing that puzzles me, annihilists go on and on about the wages of sin is death yet if Jesus took all our sin why was he not annihilated for it (as they contend instant obliteration etc.)?

 

[Timothew]

Surprise surprise, it is your own concoction. That explains why it makes so little sense.

I didn't translate psychen as soul because there is a LOT of confusion about what soul means. So why even go there? Some people, Ithink you may even be one of them, think of "soul" in the Platonic sense of a disembodied part of a person that survives death. Translating Psyche as "soul" just adds to that confusion.

Insert "soul" into the translation if you wish, but you need to understand that pysche in greek refers to the person, not some ghostly part of the person.

Incidentally, all of my new testament reading is in the original language so it shouldn't surprise you that I go there first, then translate.

 

[LutheranMafia]

There's no such thing as a "dose" of infinity. It's either forever or it's not.

That is not correct. There are an infinite number of different kinds of infinity. There is infinity (integers), infinity squared (real numbers), infinity to the power of 4 (complex numbers), infinity to the power of infinity, infinity to the power of infinity to the power of infinity, etc, etc... So which infinity are you referring to that we can't get a dose of?

I think his thesis is very compelling. It jives with more contemporary experiences of Hell that explain it in more detail as an endless process of disintegration of the spirit.

 

[Timothew]

You know one thing that puzzles me, annihilists go on and on about the wages of sin is death yet if Jesus took all our sin why was he not annihilated for it (as they contend instant obliteration etc.)?

Yes, that is puzzlilng. If the wages of sin is really eternal torment in hell, and if Jesus took all of our sin, why is He not in eternal torment in hell right now?

However if the wages of sin is really death as the bible clearly states and Jesus took our sin (as the bible states) and He DIED on the cross (as the bible states), why are you still puzzled?

 

[LutheranMafia]

I didn't translate psychen as soul because there is a LOT of confusion about what soul means. So why even go there? Some people, Ithink you may even be one of them, think of "soul" in the Platonic sense of a disembodied part of a person that survives death. Translating Psyche as "soul" just adds to that confusion.

Insert "soul" into the translation if you wish, but you need to understand that pysche in greek refers to the person, not some ghostly part of the person.

Incidentally, all of my new testament reading is in the original language so it shouldn't surprise you that I go there first, then translate.

In both the OT and the NT the word soul is sometimes a reference to the totality of one's being and not just the physical part that is usually all that is effected or referred to, and at other times refers exclusively to the non-physical part.

Matthew 10:28 is clearly that latter. It makes no sense what-so-ever when trying to translate it as the former meaning. That is why no Greek scholar in his right mind would touch your doctored translation with a 10 foot pole.

 

[Timothew]

Surprise surprise, it is your own concoction. That explains why it makes so little sense.

Can I get a second opinion from someone who knows greek? He-Man? What do you think of my translation? Is it way off base as LM suggests?

LM, Perhaps you could find out the meaning of psyche and then get back to me on this, instead of just guessing and speculating.

 

[LutheranMafia]

Incidentally, all of my new testament reading is in the original language so it shouldn't surprise you that I go there first, then translate.

That is where you get into trouble. You clearly are not competent enough in Greek to do the translation yourself.

 

[LutheranMafia]

LM, Perhaps you could find out the meaning of psyche and then get back to me on this, instead of just guessing and speculating.

I've already done quite a study of it, thank you. I've been arguing with Mikecpking about it for years.

 

[LutheranMafia]

Can I get a second opinion from someone who knows greek? He-Man? What do you think of my translation? Is it way off base as LM suggests?

Oh yes, we'll get a level headed answer from him.

Hentenza seemed infinitely more competent in Greek to me than either of you.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Yes, that is puzzlilng. If the wages of sin is really eternal torment in hell, and if Jesus took all of our sin, why is He not in eternal torment in hell right now?

However if the wages of sin is really death as the bible clearly states and Jesus took our sin (as the bible states) and He DIED on the cross (as the bible states), why are you still puzzled?

I have already explained myself previously you however are just being evasive. How come Jesus was not annihilated for our sins as you contend happens?

 

[Timothew]

That is where you get into trouble. You clearly are not competent enough in Greek to do the translation yourself.

According to you, yet your opinion is worth nothing to me.

Anyway, regardless of your OPINION of me, The point was, and still is that Mikecpking did not contradict Matthew 10:28.

 

[LutheranMafia]

According to you, yet your opinion is worth nothing to me.

Anyway, regardless of your OPINION of me, The point was, and still is that Mikecpking did not contradict Matthew 10:28.

Based on interpreting the verse into meaninglessness? Only by interpretating the Bible into nothing, completely void of meaning, can you support your stance. Over and over again this is the case with you.

 

[LutheranMafia]

Yes, that is puzzlilng. If the wages of sin is really eternal torment in hell, and if Jesus took all of our sin, why is He not in eternal torment in hell right now?

However if the wages of sin is really death as the bible clearly states and Jesus took our sin (as the bible states) and He DIED on the cross (as the bible states), why are you still puzzled?

As he said, it was a dose. A dose means you don't get the full treatment.

 

[Timothew]

I have already explained myself previously you however are just being evasive. How come Jesus was not annihilated for our sins as you contend happens?

Annihilation is the opposing side's word. The word is death. Jesus died for our sins. He died on the cross. He became a dead person. Unconscious, dead, not alive, dead. Then 3 days later He came back to life.

I'm not being evasive. If the penalty for sin is eternal torment why wasn't Jesus eternally tormented when He took on our sins?