Let's Talk About Hell (3)

[Ed Bana]

Well then you are not looking where i am looking

Angel/messenger:
Strong’s Concordance.
NT:9999 inserted word (x);
This word angel was added by the translators for better readability in the English. There is no actual word in the Hebrew/Greek text. The word may be displayed in italics, or in parentheses or other brackets, to indicate that it is not in the original text.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

There is no 9999 in Strong's. The word used in the NT is
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]G32 άγγελος angel, messenger ΟΕ engel, ult. via eccles. L. from Gk angelos ‘messenger’.[/FONT][/FONT]

2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels/messengers that sinned, but He cast down to the grave, and delivered into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

 

[LutheranMafia]

What would you feel if you were alone in a large group of people who honestly believed (and I assure you, they are out there) that computers were invented by aliens, and nothing you said made any difference?

Come on dude, 3/4ths of people believe in UFOs, because the subject is so obviously true. I know for a fact that aliens exist. My grandfather was adjutant to Gen. Curtis Lemay, AF chief of staff from Roswell to the Cuban missile crisis. And I've met numerous other military men that confirm this, for example an Army Colonel that confided to me, after I told him what my grandfather had told me.

I find people that are so dimissive of aliens to be rather dense and yet ironically stuck up about their lack of objectivity. They think it is a "scientific" point of view, as if the subject could be treated like an 18th century naturalist expedition hunting new species. That is a completely ignorant approach to the subject. The only thing that would convince such people is a dead alien body or a hunk of wrecked spacecraft, like hunters bringing back a dead speciman tied to a large straight branch. That might work for a new species of deer, but not for a highly technically evolved civilization. The approach is utterly antiquated, like trying to use Euclid's axoims to approach the subject of real or complex analysis. If someone is convinced that Euclid's axioms are a valid litmus test of complex analysis, then they are so wrapped up in their own circular reasoning that there is no getting through to them.

 

[Soulgazer]

Come on dude, 3/4ths of people believe in UFOs, because the subject is so obviously true. I know for a fact that aliens exist. My grandfather was adjutant to Gen. Curtis Lemay, AF chief of staff from Roswell to the Cuban missile crisis. And I've met numerous other military men that confirm this, for example an Army Colonel that confided to me, after I told him what my grandfather had told me.

I find people that are so dimissive of aliens to be rather dense and yet ironically stuck up about their lack of objectivity. They think it is a "scientific" point of view, as if the subject could be treated like an 18th century naturalist expedition hunting new species. That is a completely ignorant approach to the subject. The only thing that would convince such people is a dead alien body or a hunk of wrecked spacecraft, like hunters bringing back a dead speciman tied to a large straight branch. That might work for a new species of deer, but not for a highly technically evolved civilization. The approach is utterly antiquated, like trying to use Euclid's axoims to approach the subject of real or complex analysis. If someone is convinced that Euclid's axioms are a valid litmus test of complex analysis, then they are so wrapped up in their own circular reasoning that there is no getting through to them.

You misunderstand the question. I picked "aliens" because some people actually do believe that computers were invented by aliens. If they believed it was pygmies, I would have said pigmies. The point being, that a computer engineer should know who invented computers.

 

[createdtoworship]

Your wrong gradyll. It is not the translators we need to trust it is the Spirit of Truth. John 16: 13 does not say bias translators, is come, they will guide you into all truth

John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
This is not my own religion there are thousands of God's people who lets God lead and guide them into all truth instead of the 10,000 daughters of Babylon.​

Where is your judgement unless it fits some religious bias just like you Mr. Hewey who had no clue what he was speaking of. Strong's is jst a small part of it. We have not got intothe meat of this conversation. KJ is so full of errors "easter, hell". Please siff.​

so you know how to make heads or tails of morphology and you know how to navigate grammar markings in the greek (inflected forms and parsings)? It's not hard but it takes some time. I am uncomfortable with the grammer myself. This is where I notice that the translators are actually quite smart.

Secondly, you pose a theory that gehennah is for believers only to purge them from their sins. Verses please?

 

[Ed Bana]

Not theory fact. Unless you can produce a verse that shows the that the heathen, the lost etc go to Gehenna.

The Greek word Gehenna which the preachers love to burn people up; what does the Bible say reference this word? Gehenna: Referring to the Valley of Hinnom, or Gehenna which is the city dump outside the walls of Jerusalem; (Jersalem is always symbolic of God people be it the earthy realm or the New Jerusalem in the ages to come; a city symbolic of the lost would be Rome pehaps Athen but no scipture not my opinion uses Jesusalem) Gehenna is a place of constant burning of refuge. Those who go to Gehenna are not sinners of the world; but are sinners of God’s people or the city dump. (how precious is this a type of purification outside of God’s holy city. All things that are not of God will be purified by God’s holy judgment fire.
　
Matt. 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell (Gehenna) fire.

Notice the word “brother” never you find the words heathen, sinner, lost, unbeliever with the word Gehenna.

so you know how to make heads or tails of morphology and you know how to navigate grammar markings in the greek (inflected forms and parsings)? It's not hard but it takes some time. I am uncomfortable with the grammer myself. This is where I notice that the translators are actually quite smart.

Secondly, you pose a theory that gehennah is for believers only to purge them from their sins. Verses please?

 

[Ed Bana]

Popes and carnal preachers are smart. God is a Spirit not a carnal brain.

so you know how to make heads or tails of morphology and you know how to navigate grammar markings in the greek (inflected forms and parsings)? It's not hard but it takes some time. I am uncomfortable with the grammer myself. This is where I notice that the translators are actually quite smart.

 

[he-man]

Secondly, you pose a theory that gehennah is for believers only to purge them from their sins. Verses please?

Indeed, his theory is false thinking.
Gehenna, gehinnam, or gehinnom (Hebrew: גהנום, גהנם, Greek γέενν&#945 are terms derived from a geographical site in Jerusalem known as the Valley of Hinnom, one of the two principal valleys surrounding the Old City where Jews who worshiped idols burned their children alive as a sacrifice to Moloch and Baal.

Deu 12:31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.


Lev 18:21 And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.


2Ki 23:10 And he defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of the children of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter to pass through the fire to Molech.


Jer 32:35 And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

Jer 7:31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart.
2Ch 28:3 Moreover he burnt incense in the valley of the son of Hinnom, and burnt his children in the fire, after the abominations of the heathen whom the LORD had cast out before the children of Israel.

from Moloch, a Caananite idol to whom children were sacrificed.
© Oxford University Press, 2004

 

[Hillsage]

Indeed, his theory is false thinking.
Gehenna, gehinnam, or gehinnom (Hebrew: גהנום, גהנם, Greek γέενν&#945 are terms derived from a geographical site in Jerusalem known as the Valley of Hinnom, one of the two principal valleys surrounding the Old City where JEWS who worshiped idols burned their children alive as a sacrifice to Moloch and Baal.

It may be false, but I don't see that proven by what you posted. You highlighted the wrong part of the definition above. That definition, and all the scriptures below, were made regarding the JEWS...not heathen Gentiles. It looks to me like what you've posted, actually supports the point Ed made.

Although I have not heard about hell being for God's elect and chosen who never purified themselves, it certainly is something new for everyone to argue about.

 

[Timothew]

It may be false, but I don't see that proven by what you posted. You highlighted the wrong part of the definition above. That definition, and all the scriptures below, were made regarding the JEWS...not heathen Gentiles. It looks to me like what you've posted, actually supports the point Ed made.

Although I have not heard about hell being for God's elect and chosen who never purified themselves, it certainly is something new for everyone to argue about.

It looks to me like it is Moloch and Baal worshipers who were putting people in flames in Gehenna not Yahweh worshipers, although it seems some Yahwehists got caught up in the spirit of things as it were.

 

[Soulgazer]

It may be false, but I don't see that proven by what you posted. You highlighted the wrong part of the definition above. That definition, and all the scriptures below, were made regarding the JEWS...not heathen Gentiles. It looks to me like what you've posted, actually supports the point Ed made.

Although I have not heard about hell being for God's elect and chosen who never purified themselves, it certainly is something new for everyone to argue about.

"Secret John" which came out of the Johnite sect about the same time as the "Epistles of John" (There was a split in the sect and they were writing against each other) had this to say; it reflects the beliefs that were prevalent from 120-180AD, the period of time when several versions of this scripture were composed:

And I said to the savior, "Lord, will all the souls then be brought safely into the pure light?" He answered and said to me, "Great things have arisen in your mind, for it is difficult to explain them to others except to those who are from the immovable race. Those on whom the Spirit of life will descend and (with whom) he will be with the power, they will be saved and become perfect and be worthy of the greatness and be purified in that place from all wickedness and the involvements in evil. Then they have no other care than the incorruption alone, to which they direct their attention from here on, without anger or envy or jealousy or desire and greed of anything. They are not affected by anything except the state of being in the flesh alone, which they bear while looking expectantly for the time when they will be met by the receivers (of the body). Such then are worthy of the imperishable, eternal life and the calling. For they endure everything and bear up under everything, that they may finish the good fight and inherit eternal life."
I said to him, "Lord, the souls of those who did not do these works (but) on whom the power and Spirit descended, (will they be rejected?" He answered and said to me, "If) the Spirit (descended upon them), they will in any case be saved, and they will change (for the better). For the power will descend on every man, for without it no one can stand. And after they are born, then, when the Spirit of life increases and the power comes and strengthens that soul, no one can lead it astray with works of evil. But those on whom the counterfeit spirit descends are drawn by him and they go astray."
And I said, "Lord, where will the souls of these go when they have come out of their flesh?" And he smiled and said to me, "The soul in which the power will become stronger than the counterfeit spirit, is strong and it flees from evil and, through the intervention of the incorruptible one, it is saved, and it is taken up to the rest of the aeons."
And I said, "Lord, those, however, who have not known to whom they belong, where will their souls be?" And he said to me, "In those, the despicable spirit has gained strength when they went astray. And he burdens the soul and draws it to the works of evil, and he casts it down into forgetfulness. And after it comes out of (the body), it is handed over to the authorities, who came into being through the archon, and they bind it with chains and cast it into prison, and consort with it until it is liberated from the forgetfulness and acquires knowledge. And if thus it becomes perfect, it is saved."
And I said, "Lord, how can the soul become smaller and return into the nature of its mother or into man?" Then he rejoiced when I asked him this, and he said to me, "Truly, you are blessed, for you have understood! That soul is made to follow another one (fem.), since the Spirit of life is in it. It is saved through him. It is not again cast into another flesh."
And I said, "Lord, these also who did not know, but have turned away, where will their souls go?" Then he said to me, "To that place where the angels of poverty go they will be taken, the place where there is no repentance. And they will be kept for the day on which those who have blasphemed the spirit will be tortured, and they will be punished with eternal punishment."

 

[Ed Bana]

There is no hell. Gehenna is not hell. That is a religious lie. God’s fire is spiritual not literal fire. God is not going to build a big campfire and torture the wicked at the stake lie the Catholic Church did back in the dark ages of Christian dark ages.
　
And then we have the glorious promise that "As in (Greek, Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order." (1 Corinthians 15:22-23).

Tell me why brimstone?

It is not a manner of if you go thought the fire, but when. It is interesting to note that the Greek word for fire is PUR, a derivative of which is the Latin word PYRA (pure) and the English word PYRE - the place for the burning of a corpse. PYREX also comes from the same root, PYR or PUR, meaning a fire, and REX, meaning a king - that which is king, thus ruling over the fire, hence a "heatresistant" glassware. All our English words having to do with that which is pure are related to the Greek word PUR, indicating clearly that that which is pure is so because it has been cleansed BY FIRE! Consider: PURE, PURity, PURify, PURification, PURitan and yes the catholic word PURgatory.

Fire, in the scriptures, symbolized two things - judgment and cleansing.

But God is not schizophrenic in His nature - one side of His character disposed to forgive, save, heal, redeem, deliver and restore, while another part of His nature is bent on vengeful destruction and the sadistic torture of His enemies. His action in fire, as His action in grace, is pure, harmonious, and balanced, directed towards the purging that will lead to restoration.

His fire cleanses the believer that he may qualify for God's highest.
His action of fire towards the unbeliever is to the same end, conditioning and preparing that one for good results, when, having been broken and purged from pride and rebellion, he bows low before the Saviour, penitently receiving the gracious gift of life. The fire does not save him, but it removes the hindrance that separates him from the kind mercy of the Lord.

Christ Jesus is the High Priest of the new order, the Melchizedekian priesthood, the priesthood that is being formed now, and THIS IS THE PRIESTHOOD THAT HE CLEANSES AND PURIFIES WHEN HE RETURNS TO HIS TEMPLE.

The apostle Peter expressed the truth of it this way: "Beloved, do not be amazed and bewildered by the fiery ordeal which is taking place to test your quality, as though something strange - unusual and alien to you and your position - were befalling you" (I Pet. 4:12, Amplified). "THINK IT NOT STRANGE," the King James version says - do not be amazed and bewildered, do not be astonished, do not be alarmed as though the experience is foreign, unexpected, abnormal, a surprise. It is not an accident - it was PLANNED. It is not a surprise - it was PURPOSED.

Who may abide - endure - wait for - the day of HIS COMING? So many are content in that spiritual place where they are. The vast majority of Christians are satisfied with the forgiveness realm, the blessing realm, the gift realm where all is received by free grace through faith. Everything in those elementary realms is free! There are no conditions, no qualifications, no price - neither is there any great attainment in God.

It is the realm of children, of babes in Christ. "Ask, and ye shall receive." To the spiritual children Jesus promised, "If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your heavenly Father give good things to them that ask Him?" (Mat. 7:11). The world of children receiving gifts from their parents is a blessed world indeed!

1 Peter 1:7 (KJV) That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 1:7 (ESV) so that(A) the tested genuineness of your faith—more precious than gold that perishes(B) though it is tested by(C) fire—may be found to result in(D) praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 1:7 (WYC) that the proving of your faith be much more precious than gold, that is proved by fire; and be found into praising, and glory, and honour, in the revelation of Jesus Christ.


"He knoweth the way that I take, and when He hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold." Job 23:10.


Isaiah. 48:10 & 11 says, "Behold I have refined thee, and I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction. For mine own name's sake I will do it, for I will not have My name to be polluted." The name of God means that He will become whatever He wants to become to meet everyone's need, whenever He wants to do it. In order for us to become the expression of the name of the Lord in the earth, it is essential that we be purified from all that does not bring glory to His name. This is what the furnace of affliction will do. Affliction includes all of the adversities, hardships and trying experiences that are a part of our life. The Greek word for affliction means pressure. Paul said that we are pressed, not only from without, but from within. All of these pressures, both external and internal, are controlled by God and are urging us into Him. Paul tells us that we must through much pressure, enter the kingdom of God.

We should never view suffering in a negative way. We should always see it as a totally positive handiwork of God that will always have excellent results, without any defeat whatsoever. In all Job's suffering He did not attribute folly to God. Job 1:22. God Himself is fully responsible for all of our negative situations. The statement is true that was made by a man of God back in the eighteen hundreds: "

　
　
　

It may be false, but I don't see that proven by what you posted. You highlighted the wrong part of the definition above. That definition, and all the scriptures below, were made regarding the JEWS...not heathen Gentiles. It looks to me like what you've posted, actually supports the point Ed made.

Although I have not heard about hell being for God's elect and chosen who never purified themselves, it certainly is something new for everyone to argue about.

 

[Ed Bana]

Moloch and Baal worshipers are not brothers.

It looks to me like it is Moloch and Baal worshipers who were putting people in flames in Gehenna not Yahweh worshipers, although it seems some Yahwehists got caught up in the spirit of things as it were.

 

[createdtoworship]

There is no hell. Gehenna is not hell. That is a religious lie. God’s fire is spiritual not literal fire. God is not going to build a big campfire and torture the wicked at the stake lie the Catholic Church did back in the dark ages of Christian dark ages.
　
　

Gehenna/purgatory/purging:


When Jesus died on the cross, He said "It is finished" (John 19:30). Jesus completed the work of redemption at the cross. In His high priestly prayer to the Father, Jesus said, "I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do" (John 17:4). Hebrews 10:14 emphatically declares, "By one sacrifice he has made perfect for ever those who are being made holy." Hence, those who believe in Christ are "made perfect" forever; no further "purging" is necessary. First John 1:7 says, "The blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin." Romans 8:1 says, "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."

Jesus took care of "purging" our sins by His work of salvation at the cross. Hebrews 1:3 affirms, "After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven." Jesus provided full purification for our sins.

 

[Ed Bana]

You are going to be surprised.

Jesus provided full purification for our sins.

So I should believe you and ignore God's Word??


Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Explain baptism of fire?

Mark 9:49For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.

Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Luke 3:17 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable

Do you know anything about farming, the chaff is the outer (flesh) of the wheat until the wheat is mature the chaff and the wheat are the same and cannot be separated.
Hebrews 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,


1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

Gehenna/purgatory/purging:


When Jesus died on the cross, He said "It is finished" (John 19:30). Jesus completed the work of redemption at the cross. In His high priestly prayer to the Father, Jesus said, "I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do" (John 17:4). Hebrews 10:14 emphatically declares, "By one sacrifice he has made perfect for ever those who are being made holy." Hence, those who believe in Christ are "made perfect" forever; no further "purging" is necessary. First John 1:7 says, "The blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin." Romans 8:1 says, "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."

Jesus took care of "purging" our sins by His work of salvation at the cross. Hebrews 1:3 affirms, "After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

" Jesus provided full purification for our sins.

 

[Hillsage]

There is no hell. Gehenna is not hell. That is a religious lie. God’s fire is spiritual not literal fire.

I can't tell for sure why you quoted me for this post. I can't say we are in too much disagreement. But, in guessing why you addressed this to me I'll answer. Sometimes it's easier to use the common vernacular when trying to get someone to see what you see...I hope you can see what I mean. IOW Gehenna is hell by the Greek translation of today. Unfortunately the definition of hell came from religious men with an agenda. And IOO (In Our Opinion) Hell just isn't what orthodoxy has people believing.

And then we have the glorious promise that "As in (Greek, Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order." (1 Corinthians 15:22-23).

One of the foundational verses for those of us believing God's plan for salvation was just that...His plan and He will finish it according to His counsel in the ages to come...praise be to His name.

Tell me why brimstone?

Because historically it has always been used as a PURgative and a preservative....but I couldn't find any record of it ever being used for any torture techinques. So either God inspired a stupid scripture to scare those people 2000 years ago...or orthodoxy has dumbed down those smart Christians of today....hence I've recently added a second 'signature byline' at the bottom.

Consider: PURE, PURity, PURify, PURification, PURitan and yes the catholic word PURgatory.

His fire cleanses the believer that he may qualify for God's highest.

I agree. But His highest isn't us sinful saints throwing mud on His grace. His highest is us overcoming sin and the devil as well as all strongholds of 'stinkin thinkin'. In doing so, we then become ambassadors worthy of holding His name before the world.

THIS IS THE PRIESTHOOD THAT HE CLEANSES AND PURIFIES WHEN HE RETURNS TO HIS TEMPLE.

In almost all verses of the NT WE ARE His temple...and not some building made with brick an stone.

We should never view suffering in a negative way.

Maybe we shouldn't, but it's pretty obvious we all do. Even Jesus prayed "take this cup from me". Why would he do such a thing? Cause he didn't want to suffer either, that's why. And on the cross that's what he was referring to when, just before dying, He said "It is finished". He was talking about the end of his suffering..and not redemption. According to scripture there was more to redemption than death on the cross.

1CO 15:13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised; 14 if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain.

 

[Hillsage]

"Secret John" which came out of the Johnite sect about the same time as the "Epistles of John" (There was a split in the sect and they were writing against each other) had this to say; it reflects the beliefs that were prevalent from 120-180AD, the period of time when several versions of this scripture were composed:

I read what you posted but am unsure how it related to the Jewish idol worshipers who sacrificed their children. Did I miss something?

 

[Ed Bana]

Hillstage,
I have no idea why I went after you post. I get a bit carried away on these forums.
Brimstone was used in the Greek pagan temples as something to purify the temple. This was common knowledge in Jesus day. It speaks of purification.
BRIMSTONE 1. theion ^2303^ originally denoted "fire from heaven." It is connected with sulphur. Places touched by lightning were called theia, and, as lightning leaves a sulphurous smell, and sulphur was used in pagan purifications, it received the name of theion <Luke 17:29; Rev. 9:17-18; 14:10; 19:20; 20:10; 21:8>.#
&#12288;&#12288;&#12288;&#12288;&#12288;&#12288;&#12288;
2. theiodes ^2306^, akin to No. 1, signifies "brimstone-like, or consisting of brimstone," <Rev. 9:17>.#

 

[he-man]

Moloch and Baal worshipers are not brothers.

Exactly my point, only unbelievers will go to the place called the grave (The symbolical Gehenna) eternally and not be resurrected. They will cease to exist.

 

[served]

There is no hell. Gehenna is not hell. That is a religious lie. God’s fire is spiritual not literal fire. God is not going to build a big campfire and torture the wicked at the stake lie the Catholic Church did back in the dark ages of Christian dark ages.
&#12288;
And then we have the glorious promise that "As in (Greek, Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order." (1 Corinthians 15:22-23).

Tell me why brimstone?

It is not a manner of if you go thought the fire, but when. It is interesting to note that the Greek word for fire is PUR, a derivative of which is the Latin word PYRA (pure) and the English word PYRE - the place for the burning of a corpse. PYREX also comes from the same root, PYR or PUR, meaning a fire, and REX, meaning a king - that which is king, thus ruling over the fire, hence a "heatresistant" glassware. All our English words having to do with that which is pure are related to the Greek word PUR, indicating clearly that that which is pure is so because it has been cleansed BY FIRE! Consider: PURE, PURity, PURify, PURification, PURitan and yes the catholic word PURgatory.

Fire, in the scriptures, symbolized two things - judgment and cleansing.

But God is not schizophrenic in His nature - one side of His character disposed to forgive, save, heal, redeem, deliver and restore, while another part of His nature is bent on vengeful destruction and the sadistic torture of His enemies. His action in fire, as His action in grace, is pure, harmonious, and balanced, directed towards the purging that will lead to restoration.

His fire cleanses the believer that he may qualify for God's highest.
His action of fire towards the unbeliever is to the same end, conditioning and preparing that one for good results, when, having been broken and purged from pride and rebellion, he bows low before the Saviour, penitently receiving the gracious gift of life. The fire does not save him, but it removes the hindrance that separates him from the kind mercy of the Lord.

Christ Jesus is the High Priest of the new order, the Melchizedekian priesthood, the priesthood that is being formed now, and THIS IS THE PRIESTHOOD THAT HE CLEANSES AND PURIFIES WHEN HE RETURNS TO HIS TEMPLE.

The apostle Peter expressed the truth of it this way: "Beloved, do not be amazed and bewildered by the fiery ordeal which is taking place to test your quality, as though something strange - unusual and alien to you and your position - were befalling you" (I Pet. 4:12, Amplified). "THINK IT NOT STRANGE," the King James version says - do not be amazed and bewildered, do not be astonished, do not be alarmed as though the experience is foreign, unexpected, abnormal, a surprise. It is not an accident - it was PLANNED. It is not a surprise - it was PURPOSED.

Who may abide - endure - wait for - the day of HIS COMING? So many are content in that spiritual place where they are. The vast majority of Christians are satisfied with the forgiveness realm, the blessing realm, the gift realm where all is received by free grace through faith. Everything in those elementary realms is free! There are no conditions, no qualifications, no price - neither is there any great attainment in God.

It is the realm of children, of babes in Christ. "Ask, and ye shall receive." To the spiritual children Jesus promised, "If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your heavenly Father give good things to them that ask Him?" (Mat. 7:11). The world of children receiving gifts from their parents is a blessed world indeed!

1 Peter 1:7 (KJV) That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 1:7 (ESV) so that(A) the tested genuineness of your faith—more precious than gold that perishes(B) though it is tested by(C) fire—may be found to result in(D) praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 1:7 (WYC) that the proving of your faith be much more precious than gold, that is proved by fire; and be found into praising, and glory, and honour, in the revelation of Jesus Christ.


"He knoweth the way that I take, and when He hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold." Job 23:10.


Isaiah. 48:10 & 11 says, "Behold I have refined thee, and I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction. For mine own name's sake I will do it, for I will not have My name to be polluted." The name of God means that He will become whatever He wants to become to meet everyone's need, whenever He wants to do it. In order for us to become the expression of the name of the Lord in the earth, it is essential that we be purified from all that does not bring glory to His name. This is what the furnace of affliction will do. Affliction includes all of the adversities, hardships and trying experiences that are a part of our life. The Greek word for affliction means pressure. Paul said that we are pressed, not only from without, but from within. All of these pressures, both external and internal, are controlled by God and are urging us into Him. Paul tells us that we must through much pressure, enter the kingdom of God.

We should never view suffering in a negative way. We should always see it as a totally positive handiwork of God that will always have excellent results, without any defeat whatsoever. In all Job's suffering He did not attribute folly to God. Job 1:22. God Himself is fully responsible for all of our negative situations. The statement is true that was made by a man of God back in the eighteen hundreds: "

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Great post, Thanks for this!

 

[Ed Bana]

No. Wrong. In the end all will be resurrected the grave is not Gehenna,

Acts 24:15
And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Resurrection means to rise; notice the word unjust.


And then we have the glorious promise that "As in (Greek, in, with, by) Adam all die, even so in (in, with, by) Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order." (1 Corinthians 15:22-23).
NT:1722
en (en); a primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), i.e. a relation of rest (intermediate between NT:1519 and NT:1537); "in," at, (up-) on, by, etc.:
God is not calling all people to salvation now; but each in their own order.
"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.&#12288; But every man in His own order; Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming." (I Cor. 15:22-23).&#12288; There is no doubt concerning the totality of salvation for every man-- whatever was affected by death through Adam, shall be MADE ALIVE THROUGH CHRIST.&#12288; The triumph of Christ is far greater than the sin of Adam.&#12288; But the point that is before us is that of TIMING-- with "every man in his own order." There is DIVINE ORDER in this NEW CREATION that is being brought forth, as God gathers one by one a people unto Himself.&#12288; From Calvary until this present time, God has been working in what is rightly termed "HIS FIRSTFRUITS." We who are living at the ending of this age (web ed. note: which still could be a long ways away) are still being drawn into this "firstfruits order." But never forget, the firstfruits of a harvest are the PROMISE that all the rest of the harvest will follow in its time. Ray Prinzing
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That is why we will become Kings and Priest unto to God for the remainder of all pagan people.



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Exactly my point, only unbelievers will go to the place called the grave (The symbolical Gehenna) eternally and not be resurrected. They will cease to exist.