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Let's Talk About Hell (3)

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Ed Bana

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A balanced God. Controlling all good and evil, light and darkness

He is spiritual and He is sovereign over all things.

Nothing happens out side of His complete and sovereign control.

He hides his deepness for they that do not seek him with all that they are.

He is a secretive and many deep hidden spiritual messages.

Great question but I got to run.

Yes, it asks the question "what do we believe God is like?"
 
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LutheranMafia

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The debate is a far cry from a tit for tat.

We are debating God's Word if it is spiritual or literal. We are debating if God is going to torture billion upon billions of lost souls for ever and ever...
No, that is not the tenur of the debate, at least not for me, or Timothew, as he has stated it. There are only millions at stake, not billions. People of other religions do not automatically go to Hell. God is love and "Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God." (1 John 4:7). It doesn't matter what religion they are.

Those who are damned to Hell are the psychopathic fraction of a percent of the populate who delight in human suffering. They are there and they are real, but it is only millions, not billions of people.
 
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createdtoworship

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createdtoworship

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The debate is a far cry from a tit for tat.

We are debating God's Word if it is spiritual or literal. We are debating if God is going to torture billion upon billions of lost souls for ever and ever with no mercy and God who is omnipresence will be helpless to do anything about it. Or will God ultimately save all people.

This is one of the most serious debates a believer can have.

the tit for tat is on your end of things.....jk

:p
 
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Soulgazer

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I've got a bachelor's in computer science. I am no stranger to academia, which is precisely why I know it's very real limitations and biases. Especially when it comes to religious studies. For example, when dating Hindu scriptures and the birth times of religious figures Western scholars lobomtize the firgures, dating Krishna to live only a few hundred years before Buddha, to give a specific example. Academia has an anti-religious and even an anti-mystical, materialist reductionist point of view. It works great in some fields like mathematics, but it's approach to religion and mysticism is atrocious. If you are really a Gnostic then you should be a mystic and understand this. The core of Gnosticism is not treated any more kindly by academia than any other form of myticism.
A Gnostic from my church is also trained to separate what he/she believes from what he/she knows. A belief is just something that fills in the gaps between knowledge, if you are trained, or it can quickly become an insanity if you are not.

Let me give you an example. About 10-20 years after WWII in the south seas, as the US was expanding it's presence, indigenous tribes, previously unknown, were discovered. Some of them, apparently observing aircraft flying overhead during the war, had made marvelous models of them, replete with faces and limbs added, and were worshiping them as gods. Understandable I suppose; but the psychological syndrome that is similar between them and some modern believers is something that is unfortunately held in common.

When confronted by real aircraft on the ground, which should have been sufficient to convince these natives that aircraft were machines and not gods, they simply resorted to fundamentalist mode. They were convinced that evil unbelievers were trying to lead them away from their true gods.


I know, without guessing, who followed what, who believed what, why things were written, and what the beliefs of the author was---- I also know, based on when and where somebody lived, when something was probably altered, and sometimes the alterations point to whom and when the alterations were made.


Knowing what composes the bible does not keep one from following it; However it does allow for a more balanced approach. Superstition is often substituted for true enlightenment, and ignorance is the main culprit. Knowledge of what is physically true weeds out the falsehoods that interfere with the true gnosis of God.

Your degree is in computer science. What would you feel if you were alone in a large group of people who honestly believed (and I assure you, they are out there) that computers were invented by aliens, and nothing you said made any difference? That's about the way I feel, so I don't spend a lot of time in these forums.
 
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createdtoworship

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No. I did not cut and run when because I lost the debate and became so offended I had nothing more to say but childish post.

no you ran cause you lost the debate because I put in there

Revelation Chapter 3 verse 5 states that those who don't overcome will be blotted out of the book of life. Is this spiritual too? How can this apply to non overcoming believers?

also in chapter 2 verse 7 it says that those who don't overcome will not be able to eat of the tree of life and live forever. How can this apply to non overcoming believers?

so how do you answer those, is the tree of life spiritual? I don't think so.

try answering that in a few words (hint hint)
 
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createdtoworship

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1. False teachers of Universalism will attempt three paramount points that are critical to their doctrine, in order to show that hell is not eternal, but only temporary, but in doing so, deny that God is eternal. By doing so, they indirectly deny that eternal life that can only be given from God (1Timothy 6:16, 1 Timothy 1:17) which completely denies the authority of the Holy Bible:

2. To diminish and cast doubt upon the severity of the Greek words: hades and gehenna; to show that it is not "hell," but that is clearly shown in scripture to be false by virtue of Revelation 20:14, where hades, tarturus and gehenna is cast into the lake of fire. So their point is irrelevant and inaccurate in light of what scripture teaches us, because hades, tarturus and gehenna all are destined for the lake of fire.

3. The errors of Universalism are readily apparent in their attempts to illustrate by using scripture that the Greek word's: 'aionion and aionios' which translated into English denote "everlasting, for ever, for evermore" are only used in a temporary sense (eon, eon of the eons, eonian, age-during, age's past, et al.).

4. The inaccurate teaching that the word "all" in scripture, is "everything, all with no exceptions" is easily defeated in light of scripture.

5. Carelessness and wanton disregard for scripture is a trademark for false doctrine. Scripture clearly removes any ambiguity and clearly defines groups of
nations, groups of believer's versus unbeliever's, groups of the Jews versus the
Gentiles, those receiving eternal life versus eternal damnation, etc. But by doing so, the Universalist by introducing these four blatant errors (among others) is caught in a hopeless paradox that cannot be explained in light of scripture.

6. In these instances a figure of speech is not a license to modify the thought which the figure expresses; it is rather to be recognized that a figure of speech, in these passages, is a feeble attempt to declare in language that which is beyond the power of words to describe. It is true that a figure of speech is not a complete demonstration of truth (theologia symbolica non est demonstretiva); but the idea of eternal retribution could be conveyed to the human mind in no other way. God has clearly shown that His attributes are beyond Human comprehension or understanding as shown in Job chapter 38. To even hint that mankind can understand God is a direct insult to God and cannot claim to believe the inspiration of the Holy Scriptures by teaching that "God is temporary."

7. Just so far as language can serve to express truth the effort is being made to declare what the Scriptures assert, namely, that for those who pass out of this life which life is probationary in character there is no basis for the hope that any divine grace will be extended to them in a future existence.

8. There is also no scriptural precedent or doctrine taught within scripture that illustrates justification apart from faith in the LORD Jesus Christ. Legions of angels have sinned and for them there is not the slightest intimation to be found in the Bible which extends to them any hope of salvation whatsoever.

Jude 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Rev 12:7-9: And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

9. By the Word of God, these angels are already consigned to the lake of fire, the moment they fell from heaven with Lucifer, their eternal damnation sealed (Luke 16:26). God has said, without condition, that the fallen angels will be cast into the lake of fire, God would be found untrue should the destiny of the fallen angels be otherwise. Likewise, there is the case of the Gentiles from Adam to Moses who, for the most part, are well described in Romans 1:18-32 as those who willfully rejected God and who, three times in this one context, are said to be abandoned by God to their sinful ways.

10. The result of any unprejudiced investigation into God's revealed truth respecting fallen angels and God-rejecting Gentiles of past ages will be a conviction that the marvel of it all is not that sinners are lost, but that they are even saved; and in this connection it is clearly understood that the death of Christ for the world does not serve as a partial payment for sin's and the ground of a remote hope that all lost souls will be saved: that death becomes, rather, the basis of a greater damnation (Mark 12:40, Matthew 23:14, Luke 20:47) upon those who reject the LORD Jesus Christ.

11. Their inherent unrighteousness is augmented by the immeasurable sin of rejecting the only payment for sin: the blood of Jesus Christ which is by faith in Him. Nothing but infinite perfect grace made possible through an infinite perfect sacrifice can avail to save the lost; yet human opinion is ever intruding into area's wherein it knows nothing, insisting that the lost, if lost at all, might be saved in any one of a multitude of ways. This is contrary to scripture (Acts 4:12, John 14:6, John 3:36, 1John 5:12, et.al.).

12. The strongest emphasis is needed on the only truth that eternal damnation is not only a doctrine fully asserted and taught clearly in the Bible, but that scripture is absolutely perfect and inspired by God (Hebrews 4:12, 2 Timothy 3:16, Psalm 12:6-7) with no ambiguity. Scripture specifically condemns those who add to/subtract from the Word of God by reason, philosophy or opinion from human reason:

Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcomewhen thou art judged.

Psalm 62:9 Surely men of low degree are vanity, and men of high degree are a lie: to be laid in the balance, they are altogether lighter than vanity.

13. As heaven is a place and not a mere state of mind, in like manner those accursed go to a place of eternal damnation. This truth is indicated by the words hades (Matt. 11:23; 16:18; Luke 10:15; 16:23; Rev. 1:18; 20:13-14) and gehenna (Matt. 5:22, 29-30; 10:28; James 3:6) a place of "torment" (Luke 16:28) and tarturus for only the fallen angels (2 Peter 2:4).

14. That it is a condition of unspeakable misery is indicated by the figurative terms used to describe its sufferings"everlasting fire" (Matt. 25:41); "where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched" (Mark 9:44, 46); "the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone" (Rev. 21:8); "bottomless pit" (Rev. 9:2); "outer darkness," a place of "weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matt. 8:12); "fire unquenchable" (Luke 3:17); "furnace of fire" (Matt. 13:42); "blackness of darkness" (Jude 1:13), and "the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night" (Rev. 14:11).

15. It is well to observe, also, that nearly every one of these expressions regarding hell, fell from the lips of Christ, as is all of scripture (2 Timothy 3:16, Proverbs 30:5). He alone has disclosed all that is revealed of this place of retribution. It is as though no human author could be depended upon to speak forth all of this terrible truth.

16. The second reaction of the sincere human mind after acknowledging the indisputable truth that retribution is an actual place of suffering is to entertain the hope that this distress of the lost is not eternal, or everlasting. It is natural for the mind to cling to such a hope and a few men have gone to great lengths in their attempts so to expound the Scriptures that the idea of everlasting retribution will be excluded. Inadequate, if not insincere, translations are published which no Greek scholar can countenance, with the one purpose in view of expunging from the Word of God the eternal character of these awful sufferings.

17. The fact that many are untaught will account for the ready reception given to such interpretations of the Scriptures and by their own words contradict themselves. Only the uninformed will listen to the voice of a man who has no scholarship and ignore the fact that the greatest Greek scholars of all generations who have given to the Church the true translation and interpretation
of the original Greek text have not modified the eternal feature of retribution.
To be ignorant of the Greek text is not reprehensible, but to disregard the voice of all the worthy translators is reprehensible.

18. However, the most misleading error respecting retribution is that which falls back in blind dependence upon the one attribute of God, namely, His love, and ignores the attributes of holiness, righteousness, and justice, and the supreme control these attributes exercise over the love of God.

19. If a term may be coined at this point, those who thus restrict their vision of God's love may be styled Mercyists. Thus the Mercyists may be classified as those of all creeds and no creeds who believe that eternal retribution is impossible since God is love. Such, indeed, do not understand the gospel by which sinners are saved. It is supposed that God is generous and that He forgives sin as an act of clemency or leniency, that He being a Sovereign God can forgive whom He will and when He will. This fallacy underlies nearly all opposing thought contrary to the doctrine of eternal retribution. It is assumed that, since God is love, His affection for His creatures will prompt Him to rescue them from suffering. If the Bible declares that He will not rescue those reprobated and that their estate is eternal, then the Bible is rejected and God Himself is classed as One who cannot be defended.

Conclusion

20. Many are the attempts made by those who understand nothing of the real character of God to save Him from the undesirable reputation He must
acquire if He does not in compassion rescue all beings from eternal retribution.

21. Such is the doctrinal confusion which arises when one truth is stressed without regard for other truths which qualify it. God is holiness and righteousness as well as love It is the holiness of His Person and the righteousness of His government which preclude Him from any mere generosity which would make light of sin. In fact, sin is sufficiently sinful to require eternal retribution as
the divine penalty for it. There is no field for argument at this point. The Word
of God must stand and man must be reminded that of the two issues involved---sin and holiness---he knows nothing about their depth of meaning.

22. Being absolute, divine holiness cannot be varied or altered in the least degree. This truth is the key to the entire problem which the idea of retribution engenders. If God could have forgiven one sin of one person as an act of mere kindness, He would have compromised His own holiness which demands judgment for sin. Having thus compromised Himself with sin, He would need Himself to be saved because of the unrighteous thing He had done.

23. He would, by such supposed kindness, have established a principle by which He could forgive all human sin as an act of divine clemency, and thus the death of Christ is rendered unnecessary. This truth must not be overlooked if the doctrine of eternal retribution is to be understood at all. Let it be restated that, if God could save one soul from one sin by mere generosity, He could save all souls from sin by generosity and the death of Christ thus becomes the greatest possible divine blunder.

24. It is the fact of unyielding divine holiness which demands either the retribution of the sinner or the death of Christ in his room and stead. God is love, and that love is demonstrated by the gift of the Son that men might be saved; but love and mercy did not circumvent the demands of holiness to save the sinner: they paid its every demand.

25. The conclusion of the matter is that God, because of His holiness, cannot save the lost unless His holy demands are met for the sinner, as they are met in the death of Christ; and to be unsaved, or outside the grace of God as it is in Christ, is to be destined to eternal retribution. God can do no more than to provide a perfect salvation, which is provided at infinite cost. When love will pay such a price that a sinner may be saved and holiness remain untarnished, it ill becomes finite men to tamper with these immutable realities. Those who resent the idea of eternal retribution are, in fact, resenting divine holiness. However, the message of God's grace to sinful men is not merely a proclamation of eternal condemnation; it is rather that the chief of sinners may be saved through the Savior that infinite love has provided.
 
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Ed Bana

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I do not see that in theses verses? Show us?

no you ran cause you lost the debate because I put in there

Revelation Chapter 3 verse 5 states that those who don't overcome will be blotted out of the book of life. Is this spiritual too? How can this apply to non overcoming believers?

also in chapter 2 verse 7 it says that those who don't overcome will not be able to eat of the tree of life and live forever. How can this apply to non overcoming believers?

so how do you answer those, is the tree of life spiritual? I don't think so.

try answering that in a few words (hint hint)
 
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createdtoworship

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I do not see that in theses verses? Show us?

Revelation 3:5
He that overcomes, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Revelation 2:7
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
 
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Ed Bana

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The overcomers are God's elect. Those who will rule and reign. There is no mention of non overcomers not being blot out his name out of the book of life. God has many ages to do this with the remainder of all mankind.



Revelation 3:5
He that overcomes, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Revelation 2:7
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
 
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createdtoworship

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There is no mention of non overcomers not being blot out his name out of the book of life. God has many ages to do this with the remainder of all mankind.

the implications of the verses are obviously that those who don't overcome will be blotted out, or not have access to the tree of life anymore. That part should be obvious.
 
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Ed Bana

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Nice opinion. It's not there.
the implications of the verses are obviously that those who don't overcome will be blotted out, or not have access to the tree of life anymore. That part should be obvious.
 
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Ed Bana

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gradyll;

Problems With Universalism By Don Hewey


Mr. Hewey has no understanding of the belief in Ultimate Salvation for all people. I will have to go down each one of these false statements and refute his lie he is attempting present as facts. My rebuttal is twelve pages long with Mr. Hewey’s comment. I did not address everything he said but I sure gave it a strong attempt. Be glad to answer any thing I missed or any question from my rebuttal.

1. False teachers of Universalism


No where in God’s Word is Universalism is a addressed as false teachers or prophets in any way. But here Mr. Hewey accuses those believing in the Ultimate Salvation for all people as false teachers. But God’s Word does address false teacher/prophets as those who belief in Ultimate Salvation for all people.
Your false prophets and false teachers that teach heresies of damning billions.
2 Peter 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in
damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
Strong’s NT:684 apoleia (ap-o'-li-a); from a presumed derivative of NT:622; ruin or loss (physical, spiritual or eternal):
KJV - damnable (-nation), destruction, die, perdition, X perish, pernicious ways, waste.
So if Mr. Hewey is going to accuse some one of being a false teacher h really should use God’s Word and leave his opinion somewhere else.
will attempt three paramount points that are critical to their doctrine, in order to show that hell is not eternal, but only temporary, but in doing so, deny that God is eternal.
Again Mr. Hewey is lying. Yes we who believe belief in Ultimate Salvation for all people believe God is eternal, but we do not believe man is eternal for man had a beginning.
God is eternal "the Greek word 'aionios'..."comes from the Greek noun 'aion' which always means 'an indeterminate period of time.'" In Romans 1:20 we find the Greek word aidios which is NOT the same as “aionios” here this verse is speaking about God not man.
NT:166 aionios (ahee-o'-nee-os); from NT:165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well):
NT:126 aidios (ah-id'-ee-os); from NT:104; everduring (forward and backward, or forward only):
KJV - eternal, everlasting. (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

Romans 1: 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: KJV
 
By doing so, they indirectly deny that eternal life that can only be given from God (1Timothy 6:16, 1 Timothy 1:17) which completely denies the authority of the Holy Bible:

1 Tim 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen. KJV
1 Tim 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. KJV
I have no idea what these two scripture reference has anything to do with what Mr. Hewey is saying??? Do you????

2. To diminish and cast doubt upon the severity of the Greek words: hades and gehenna; to show that it is not "hell," but that is clearly shown in scripture to be false by virtue of Revelation 20:14, where hades, tarturus and gehenna is cast into the lake of fire. So their point is irrelevant and inaccurate in light of what scripture teaches us, because hades, tarturus and gehenna all are destined for the lake of fire.
I know of no Christian Universals who does not believe in Hades, Gehenna or Tarturus. It is the Teutonic pagan word hell that is error not these other Greek words which are in the Greek language. I have posted the following post a number of times and there is no deny of these scriptural word. Of course the Lake of Fire is spiritual but everyone knows God is a Spirit and has no use for physical, carnal, earthy fire accept as examples to TRY and show us something spiritual.
The word hell it is a Teutonic pagan word which comes from a multiple of pagan places. I do believe in the three Greek words Hades, Gehenna and Tartarus, and the Hebrew Sheol; but they simple mean the place of the dead.
 

New Testament reference by Ballantine (1934) which contain footnotes,
marginal readings and appendages which point out that several key Greek and Hebrew words regarding Hell have beenMIStranslated by such Bible versions as the King James Bible.
I have a list of Bibles which show the translations that contain the word Hell as well as the ones that don’t in the text is NOT exhaustive--we are discovering more translations all the time in which the translators did not feel justified in using the Teutonic pagan word Hell to translate the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek words Gehenna, Hades, and Tartarus.

The word hell is not in Greek or Hebrew or Aramaic the language the Bible was written in; but it comes from an Angle Saxon word “hel” meaning to bury. It is more then a mis-translation it a premeditated deliberate assault on scripture to in introduce the Teutonic pagan word
So why do you believe God would do such a evil thing to billions of his creation?
You mention Gehenna.
Gehenna: Mentioned twelve or thirteen times in the gospel. This is the word the fundamental preachers love to use to burn up the sinner. They are the first to yell foul if something does not fit in context; BUT: Gehenna: Referring to the Valley of Hinnom, or Gehenna which is the city dump outside the walls of Jerusalem; a place of constant burning of refuge. Those who go to Gehenna are not sinners of the world; but are sinners of God’s people.(how precious is this a type of purification outside of God’s holy city. All things that are not of God will be purified bf God’s holy judgment. This word is used not for sinner, murders or liars; it is used with the word “BROTHER”.


But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his
brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell (Gehenna) fire.

 
Gehenna is not physical flames, even though Gehenna is the garbage dump outside the city of Jerusalem. Gehenna Judgment is actually spiritual in nature, it is the reaping of what Isreal had sown by killing the prophets and their children in the fire to Molech and Baal at Topheth and in the Valley of Ben Hiddom (later called Gehenna). God warned that He is the only God, there is no other like Him.

Tar-ta-rus(tart rs) [[ Gr Tartaros ]] Gr. Myth. 1 an infernal abyss below Hades, where Zeus hurls the rebel Titans, later a place of punishment for the demons and devils not people. (mentioned only once in the Bible)
Ha-des(hadez) [[Gr Haides ]] 1 Gr. Myth. a) the home of the dead, beneath the earth b) the god of the underworld 2 Bible the state or resting place of the dead: name used in some modern translations of the New Testament. Did you know the Greeks have a temple in honor of the God of death ‘Hades”.
She-ol (eol) [[Heb shaal , to dig]] a place in the depths of the earth conceived of as the dwelling of the dead Note: translated in KJV about haft of scriptures as hell, the other haft as grave
 
 


 
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3. The errors of Universalism are readily apparent in their attempts to illustrate by using scripture that the Greek word's: 'aionion and aionios' which translated into English denote "everlasting, for ever, for evermore" are only used in a temporary sense (eon, eon of the eons, eonian, age-during, age's past, et al.).

The real problem with words like eternal everlasting and for ever and ever is the Babylonian religious system that refuse to look outside of their man made religious box. The seminaries keep puppeting the same old doctrines of damnations generation after generation. Occasionally you will find a Bible scholar willing to agree with the following. A careful study of the Greek word “aionios” (translated as “eternal,” “everlasting,” and “forever and ever” in our English translations) shows that it comes from the Greek noun “aion” which always means “an indeterminate period of time.”  It is a most unfortunate thing that the translators of old chose to translate “aionios” from the Latin language rather than the Greek from which the word is derived.  God’s punishment will not last forever as is commonly taught, but will only last for the ages and only UNTIL God’s purpose for it is complete. 
Eternal, eternity, etc. is not actually found in Scripture though in some aspects applied through inference of propositions. The problem is that the Greek words which were translated to "eternal" actually do not translate properly in English because there is no word in English which translates it properly. In this case, the word is "AIONIOS" and it is a descriptive adjective which just means "of, or in, or belonging to, or coming from, or resmbling, or befitting the AION.

AION is a noun meaning, "A period of time, or perpetuity of time, or definitive age, or unbroken age." It simply means an age with unknown measure which can be indefinitive or definitive.

So literally the word "AIONIOS" being translated as "Eternal" would more accurately be defined as "agely"; however since "agely" is not a real word, that leaves the English language without a literal translation for the word "AIONIOS".

So anytime you saw Jesus say "Eternal" this and "Eternal" that, he didn't say "perpetuality of time" but rather an indeterminate duration that is neither perpetual or definifitive.

 
 
 


4. The inaccurate teaching that the word "all" in scripture, is "everything, all with no exceptions" is easily defeated in light of scripture.
Really? The word all means all. It is the Greek Word “pas” which means all.

5. Carelessness and wanton disregard for scripture is a trademark for false doctrine. Scripture clearly removes any ambiguity and clearly defines groups of
nations, groups of believer's versus unbeliever's, groups of the Jews versus the
Gentiles, those receiving eternal life versus eternal damnation, etc. But by doing so, the Universalist by introducing these four blatant errors (among others) is caught in a hopeless paradox that cannot be explained in light of scripture.
If any one carelessness and wanton disregard for scripture is a trademark for false doctrine it is those who believe false prophets and false teachers that teach heresies of damning billions. I am always correcting false prophets and false teachers that teach heresies of damning billions who these different groups are in the context of the scripture. Mr. Hewey chooses the word damnation because of he is a false prophets and false teachers that teach heresies of damning billions. The word damn also in reinterpreted as judge, and probated I bet you Mr. Hewey does not now this and if he did he still choose the word damn.

6. In these instances a figure of speech is not a license to modify the thought which the figure expresses; it is rather to be recognized that a figure of speech, in these passages, is a feeble attempt to declare in language that which is beyond the power of words to describe. It is true that a figure of speech is not a complete demonstration of truth (theologia symbolica non est demonstretiva); but the idea of eternal retribution could be conveyed to the human mind in no other way. God has clearly shown that His attributes are beyond Human comprehension or understanding as shown in Job chapter 38. To even hint that mankind can understand God is a direct insult to God and cannot claim to believe the inspiration of the Holy Scriptures by teaching that "God is temporary."
I have no what Mr. Hewey is attempting to say. He is rattling on with no scriptural reference but Job 38 which I looked up and still have no idea what he is rattling on about?

7. Just so far as language can serve to express truth the effort is being made to declare what the Scriptures assert, namely, that for those who pass out of this life which life is probationary in character there is no basis for the hope that any divine grace will be extended to them in a future existence.
He sure does not read his Bible. 27 Times God’s Devine Word declares His mercy endures forever 1 Chronicles 16:34 O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever. Of course I am sure Mr. Hewey knows nothing about the Tabernacle of David which is God’s elect will be used as kings and Priest under the order of Melchizedek for the remainder of all the heathen people God never called.


8. There is also no scriptural precedent or doctrine taught within scripture that illustrates justification apart from faith in the LORD Jesus Christ. Legions of angels have sinned and for them there is not the slightest intimation to be found in the Bible which extends to them any hope of salvation whatsoever.
There is no such thing as justification apart from faith in the LORD Jesus Christ. We are saved by grace not faith. Man has no freewill or choice in his own salvation. The word angel means messenger.
 
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Jude 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Obviously Mr. Hewey does not know the word angel is to a mistranslation The word angel simply means messenger; many time there are heavenly messengers as well as in some cases earthy messenger, you must weigh each verse closely.
NT:32 aggelos (ang'-el-os); from aggello [probably derived from NT:71; compare NT:34] (to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an "angel"; by implication, a pastor:
This was not a translation from the Greek, but instead the transliteration took the Greek word “aggelos” and concocted the word angel which simply means messenger


Rev 12:7-9: And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

9. By the Word of God, these angels are already consigned to the lake of fire, the moment they fell from heaven with Lucifer, their eternal damnation sealed (Luke 16:26). God has said, without condition, that the fallen angels will be cast into the lake of fire, God would be found untrue should the destiny of the fallen angels be otherwise. Likewise, there is the case of the Gentiles from Adam to Moses who, for the most part, are well described in Romans 1:18-32 as those who willfully rejected God and who, three times in this one context, are said to be abandoned by God to their sinful ways.
That is another lie Mr. Hewey missed Satan is not Lucifer. God created Satan who was a liar from the beginning never an angel but Satan has deceived carnal religious man to believe a lie.

This was God’s doing. And for this cause God sendeth them a working of error, that they should believe a lie... Nothing happens outside of God’s Sovereign and complete will of God.

2 Corinthians 11:14 speaking of Satan transformed into an angel of light if you look at the Greek the word transformed is NT:3345
metaschematizo (met-askh-ay-mat-id'-zo); from NT:3326 and a derivative of NT:4976; to transfigure or disguise; figuratively, to apply (by accommodation):

Is not what my point is that Satan has deceived or disguised God’s people that He is an Angel of light.
Man says that Satan IN THE BEGINNING was holy, but later fell from that estate. JESUS said of Satan, "You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a MURDERER (not an angel) from the BEGINNING, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him.

When he speaks a lie, he, speaks of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it. (Jn. 8:44).

The verse we have just quoted states that Satan "Adobe not" in the truth. In the Greek text this verb is the imperfect tense of (ed: Greek form of steko(?)), I keep my standing, or simply, I stand, and the form is (esteken(?)) meaning that even before the fall or as far back as this person existed HE WAS NOT TRUE.

Dr. Robert Young, in his Literal translation of the Bible, renders this verse: "He was a manslayer from the beginning, and in the truth HE HAS NOT STOOD, because there is no truth in him.

The Rotherham version reads: "He was a murderer from the beginning, and IN THE TRUTH HE STOOD NOT; because the truth was not in him."

J. B. Phillips gives the plainest and most accurate translation: "He ALWAYS WAS a MURDERER, and has NEVER DEALT WITH THE TRUTH, since the truth will have nothing to do with him.

Whenever he tells a lie, he speaks in character, for he is a liar and the father of lies."

MAN says that Satan IN THE BEGINNING was perfect and sinless.
But the apostle John, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, penned these words in regard to Satan's origin: "He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil SINS FROM THE BEGINNING" (I Jn. 3:8).

But the Devil, according to I Jn. 3:8 W-A-S A SINNER F-R-O-M T-H-E B-E-G-I-N-N-I-N-G!

Now, if we are to believe the Bible means what it says - and I believe it does - we must believe that from his very beginning SATAN WAS EVIL.
God is not so shallow and naïve as to have such a creature pull the wool over His eyes. Adam and Eves fall was as much a part of His plan as the death of Jesus on the cross; Satan is but a tool in God’s hands.

The main reason the concept of Satan being an angel makes so sense is the concept of some creative being having any power over God to a point where God has suffered loss.

There is no scriptural evidence, or even inference, that they are fallen angels. Revelation 12:7-9, Isaiah 14:12, Ezekiel 28:14-16, and Luke 10:18 may appear to support such a thought; but that is only when read from the point of view we learned from erroneous church dogma. Under the scrutiny of truth, and in the context of those verses, they cannot stand as foundations of support that devil or demons are fallen angels.

The verse you refered to "Satan" in Hebrew that signifies him as an angel
Job 1:6, 2:1 "Now there was a day when the sons of God (angels) came to present themselves before the Lord and Satan came also among them"

This is a lie
. Lets look at the facts

NT:32
aggelos (ang'-el-os); from aggello [probably derived from NT:71; compare NT:34] (to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an "angel"; by implication, a pastor:

KJV - angel, messenger.



First of all the word angel means messenger it is not really a Greek word as tradition has portrayed but simply means messenger and oh yes there are heavenly messengers.

I have always found Job is speaking of the sons of Elohim (gods/God) this is not Satan it is man.
 
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10. The result of any unprejudiced investigation into God's revealed truth respecting fallen angels
I just address the false belief of Satan being Lucifer and that Satan has no fallen angel’s but fallen messengers. Demons are demons.
 
and God-rejecting Gentiles of past ages will be a conviction that the marvel of it all is not that sinners are lost, but that they are even saved; and in this connection it is clearly understood that the death of Christ for the world does not serve as a partial payment for sin's and the ground of a remote hope that all lost souls will be saved: that death becomes, rather, the basis of a greater damnation (Mark 12:40, Matthew 23:14, Luke 20:47) upon those who reject the LORD Jesus Christ.
Mr. Hewey love his false prophets and false teachers that teach heresies of damning billions.
2 Peter 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in
damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
God created carnal man with the nature to reject all things spiritual so how can Mr. Hewey expect carnal man to do anything but reject all things spiritual.
 
1 Corinthians 2:13-15 (amp)
    14But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.
 
 
Mr. Hewey obviously does not know there are There are three deaths in the Bible. Physical death which all men understand. Dead in trespasses and sin (Eph. 2:1 ) which I call spiritual death or first death. Second death. Which is first death killed by the second death.
Death is simply death when it comes to the natural man but there is nothing natural about the spiritual man, death is glorious in the hands of a God who know and uses all things.
Notice God must quicken us who are dead in trespasses and sin, (what does this phase mean?? How can you quicken something that is not physically alive?) this is not natural physical death, it is spiritual death, this is talking about people God is calling out of the death realm and quickening them in the to God’s Spiritual realm.
God uses natural things as examples of what the higher realm is all about, how can we understand the spiritual death but by the example of physical death.
1 Corin 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come.

Example: NT:5178 a : Strong’s: tupikos (toop-ee-kos'); an adverb related to NT:5179; found only in 1 Cor 10:11: as a warning, by way of example, typologically (i.e. figuratively, as a prophetic type, a typological interpretation of Scripture)
 
Here is another example how dead the carnal mind/non spiritual mind/soulish mind is to the realm of the Spirit.
1 Corinthians 2:13-15 (amp)
    14But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.
Romans 3: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God..
Here are some more verses.

Adam died when he partook of the fruit in the garden; he did not die physically until he was 930 years old. (Gen. 5.5) He died spiritually.
A dead man cannot hear, see, touch, feel, etc. That is especially true of a spiritual dead man.
1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming
.
Romans 5:21
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 7: 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
 
11. Their inherent unrighteousness is augmented by the immeasurable sin of rejecting the only payment for sin: the blood of Jesus Christ which is by faith in Him. Nothing but infinite perfect grace made possible through an infinite perfect sacrifice can avail to save the lost; yet human opinion is ever intruding into area's wherein it knows nothing, insisting that the lost, if lost at all, might be saved in any one of a multitude of ways. This is contrary to scripture (Acts 4:12, John 14:6, John 3:36, 1John 5:12, et.al.).
Carnal man is saved by grace not faith. When you quote scripture like John 3:16 which is a declaration of salvation and is not a verse that excludes the lost as bias translators just by looking at the Greek it is obvious this verse has been altered by corrupt religious translators.

12. The strongest emphasis is needed on the only truth that eternal damnation is not only a doctrine fully asserted and taught clearly in the Bible, but that scripture is absolutely perfect and inspired by God (Hebrews 4:12, 2 Timothy 3:16, Psalm 12:6-7) with no ambiguity. Scripture specifically condemns those who add to/subtract from the Word of God by reason, philosophy or opinion from human reason:
Again your false prophets and false teachers that teach heresies of damning billions.
2 Peter 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in
damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
 
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Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcomewhen thou art judged.
Amen. He should take head of the Word of God.

Psalm 62:9 Surely men of low degree are vanity, and men of high degree are a lie: to be laid in the balance, they are altogether lighter than vanity.
Amen. He should take head of the Word of God.

13. As heaven is a place and not a mere state of mind, in like manner those accursed go to a place of eternal damnation. This truth is indicated by the words hades (Matt. 11:23; 16:18; Luke 10:15; 16:23; Rev. 1:18; 20:13-14) and gehenna (Matt. 5:22, 29-30; 10:28; James 3:6) a place of "torment" (Luke 16:28) and tarturus for only the fallen angels (2 Peter 2:4).
Again your false prophets and false teachers that teach heresies of damning billions.
2 Peter 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in
damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

14. That it is a condition of unspeakable misery is indicated by the figurative terms used to describe its sufferings"everlasting fire" (Matt. 25:41); "where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched" (Mark 9:44, 46); "the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone" (Rev. 21:8); "bottomless pit" (Rev. 9:2); "outer darkness," a place of "weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matt. 8:12); "fire unquenchable" (Luke 3:17); "furnace of fire" (Matt. 13:42); "blackness of darkness" (Jude 1:13), and "the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night" (Rev. 14:11).
HELL IS NOT SEPARATION FROM GOD. IT IS THE GLORIOUS FULFILLMENT OF GOD. WE ARE TOLD IN MARK 9:44 THAT THE WORM DIES NOT AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED. I DON'T KNOW HOW OTHERS FEEL ABOUT THIS, BUT IN MY MIND, THIS HAS GOT TO BE THE MOST TREMENDOUS PROMISE WE CAN FIND IN THE ENTIRE SCRIPTURE CONTEXT OF THE BIBLE. THE WORM DIES NOT, THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED! THESE WORDS FROM THE LIPS OF OUR SAVIOUR. JUST THINK OF IT! NOTHING WILL STOP THE FULL REDEMPTION OF HUMANITY, THE WORM WILL NOT STOP IT'S FEASTING UPON ALL FLESH, AND THE FIRE WILL NOT GO OUT -*UNTIL*- ALL HAS BEEN CONSUMED THAT IS NOT OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD! AND THAT ROB, INCLUDES DEVILS!!!!

15. It is well to observe, also, that nearly every one of these expressions regarding hell, fell from the lips of Christ, as is all of scripture (2 Timothy 3:16, Proverbs 30:5). He alone has disclosed all that is revealed of this place of retribution. It is as though no human author could be depended upon to speak forth all of this terrible truth.
The Lord knows how to rescue/deliver the godly out of temptation and to reserve the unrighteous unto the day of judgement to be punished... -2 Peter 2:9-

Punishment=Kolasis

Kolasis=

Correction.

Punishment.

Penalty.

Kolasis Rooted In Kolazo

Kolazo=

1. To lop or prune, as trees and wings.

2. To curb, check, restrain.

3. To chastise. To correct. Punishment .

4. To cause to be punished.


16. The second reaction of the sincere human mind after acknowledging the indisputable truth that retribution is an actual place of suffering is to entertain the hope that this distress of the lost is not eternal, or everlasting. It is natural for the mind to cling to such a hope and a few men have gone to great lengths in their attempts so to expound the Scriptures that the idea of everlasting retribution will be excluded. Inadequate, if not insincere, translations are published which no Greek scholar can countenance, with the one purpose in view of expunging from the Word of God the eternal character of these awful sufferings.

The real problem with words like eternal everlasting and for ever and ever is the Babylonian religious system that refuse to look outside of their man made religious box. The seminaries keep puppeting the same old doctrines of damnations generation after generation. Occasionally you will find a Bible scholar willing to agree with the following. A careful study of the Greek word “aionios” (translated as “eternal,” “everlasting,” and “forever and ever” in our English translations) shows that it comes from the Greek noun “aion” which always means “an indeterminate period of time.”  It is a most unfortunate thing that the translators of old chose to translate “aionios” from the Latin language rather than the Greek from which the word is derived.  God’s punishment will not last forever as is commonly taught, but will only last for the ages and only UNTIL God’s purpose for it is complete. 
Eternal, eternity, etc. is not actually found in Scripture though in some aspects applied through inference of propositions. The problem is that the Greek words which were translated to "eternal" actually do not translate properly in English because there is no word in English which translates it properly. In this case, the word is "AIONIOS" and it is a descriptive adjective which just means "of, or in, or belonging to, or coming from, or resmbling, or befitting the AION.

AION is a noun meaning, "A period of time, or perpetuity of time, or definitive age, or unbroken age." It simply means an age with unknown measure which can be indefinitive or definitive.

So literally the word "AIONIOS" being translated as "Eternal" would more accurately be defined as "agely"; however since "agely" is not a real word, that leaves the English language without a literal translation for the word "AIONIOS".

So anytime you saw Jesus say "Eternal" this and "Eternal" that, he didn't say "perpetuality of time" but rather an indeterminate duration that is neither perpetual or definifitive.
 
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