Let's Talk About Hell (3)

[Ed Bana]

　

17. The fact that many are untaught will account for the ready reception given to such interpretations of the Scriptures and by their own words contradict themselves. Only the uninformed will listen to the voice of a man who has no scholarship and ignore the fact that the greatest Greek scholars of all generations who have given to the Church the true translation and interpretation
of the original Greek text have not modified the eternal feature of retribution.
To be ignorant of the Greek text is not reprehensible, but to disregard the voice of all the worthy translators is reprehensible.
Greek is awesome tool in understanding God’s Word. But it is useless if you blindly follow the teachings of the Baby ion religious system.

18. However, the most misleading error respecting retribution is that which falls back in blind dependence upon the one attribute of God, namely, His love, and ignores the attributes of holiness, righteousness, and justice, and the supreme control these attributes exercise over the love of God.
No one is ignoring “holiness, righteousness, and justice”. By believing such nonsense you make God’s love a farce. The Bible say’s God is love. It does not say God is this unbalanced monster as you try to dictate.

19. If a term may be coined at this point, those who thus restrict their vision of God's love may be styled Mercyists. Thus the Mercyists may be classified as those of all creeds and no creeds who believe that eternal retribution is impossible since God is love. Such, indeed, do not understand the gospel by which sinners are saved. It is supposed that God is generous and that He forgives sin as an act of clemency or leniency, that He being a Sovereign God can forgive whom He will and when He will. This fallacy underlies nearly all opposing thought contrary to the doctrine of eternal retribution. It is assumed that, since God is love, His affection for His creatures will prompt Him to rescue them from suffering. If the Bible declares that He will not rescue those reprobated and that their estate is eternal, then the Bible is rejected and God Himself is classed as One who cannot be defended.
There is no good news when billions are being tortured.

Conclusion

20. Many are the attempts made by those who understand nothing of the real character of God to save Him from the undesirable reputation He must
acquire if He does not in compassion rescue all beings from eternal retribution.
Yes he does. Romans 5:18-20 (Weymouth’s)
It follows then just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which to the whole race, so also is the result of a single degree of righteousness is a life giving acquittal which extends to the whole race. (19) for as thought the disobedience of one individual the mass of mankind were constituted as sinners, so also though the obedience of one, the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous. Now law was brought in later on so that the transgression might increase, but sin increased, grace is overflowed.

21. Such is the doctrinal confusion which arises when one truth is stressed without regard for other truths which qualify it. God is holiness and righteousness as well as love It is the holiness of His Person and the righteousness of His government which preclude Him from any mere generosity which would make light of sin. In fact, sin is sufficiently sinful to require eternal retribution as
the divine penalty for it. There is no field for argument at this point. The Word
of God must stand and man must be reminded that of the two issues involved---sin and holiness---he knows nothing about their depth of meaning.
You make the blood of Jesus worthless and helpless. You make the sin of Adam greater then the blood of the lamb of God who reverse the curse of Adam.

22. Being absolute, divine holiness cannot be varied or altered in the least degree. This truth is the key to the entire problem which the idea of retribution engenders. If God could have forgiven one sin of one person as an act of mere kindness, He would have compromised His own holiness which demands judgment for sin. Having thus compromised Himself with sin, He would need Himself to be saved because of the unrighteous thing He had done.
God’s judgments are just not unjust. “Make a joyful noise unto the Lord, ALL THE EARTH: make a loud noise, and rejoice, and sing praise. Let the sea (raging, surging multitudes of humanity) roar, and the fullness thereof; THE WORLD, AND THEY THAT DWELL THEREIN. Let the floods (armies) clap their hands, let the hills (small kingdoms, third world nations) be joyful together before the Lord; for HE COMETH TO JUDGE THE EARTH: WITH RIGHTEOUSNESS SHALL HE JUDGE THE WORLD, and the people with equity” (Ps. 98:4,8-9).

23. He would, by such supposed kindness, have established a principle by which He could forgive all human sin as an act of divine clemency, and thus the death of Christ is rendered unnecessary. This truth must not be overlooked if the doctrine of eternal retribution is to be understood at all. Let it be restated that, if God could save one soul from one sin by mere generosity, He could save all souls from sin by generosity and the death of Christ thus becomes the greatest possible divine blunder.
The blood of Jesus reverse the curse all born in Adam will be made alive in Christ. Romans 5:18-20 (Weymouth’s)
It follows then just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which to the whole race, so also is the result of a single degree of righteousness is a life giving acquittal which extends to the whole race. (19) for as thought the disobedience of one individual the mass of mankind were constituted as sinners, so also though the obedience of one, the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous. Now law was brought in later on so that the transgression might increase, but sin increased, grace is overflowed.


24. It is the fact of unyielding divine holiness which demands either the retribution of the sinner or the death of Christ in his room and stead. God is love, and that love is demonstrated by the gift of the Son that men might be saved; but love and mercy did not circumvent the demands of holiness to save the sinner: they paid its every demand.
Matt 18: 12"What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? 13And if he finds it, I tell you the truth, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off. 14In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost

 

[Ed Bana]

25. The conclusion of the matter is that God, because of His holiness, cannot save the lost unless His holy demands are met for the sinner, as they are met in the death of Christ; and to be unsaved, or outside the grace of God as it is in Christ, is to be destined to eternal retribution. God can do no more than to provide a perfect salvation, which is provided at infinite cost. When love will pay such a price that a sinner may be saved and holiness remain untarnished, it ill becomes finite men to tamper with these immutable realities. Those who resent the idea of eternal retribution are, in fact, resenting divine holiness. However, the message of God's grace to sinful men is not merely a proclamation of eternal condemnation; it is rather that the chief of sinners may be saved through the Savior that infinite love has provided
　
All these statements (by eternal hell-fire preachers) may be a show of oratorical eloquence, but they are nothing more. They hold no part of truth. They deny every attribute of God. They make wisdom foolishness, turn eternal love into exasperated hate, make omnipotence helplessness, and make the justice of God the grossest injustice in the universe. To say that I believe in such repugnance would be a lie of the first order. I do not believe it because it is contrary to the nature of God. It is contrary to the love of God. It is contrary to the justice of God. It is contrary to the power of God. It is contrary to the Word of God and it puts God in the ridiculous position of being the almighty King of kings and Lord of lords yet having dominion a vast pocket of hate and resistance that even He cannot overcome. Further than this it makes the mighty sacrifice of Christ that was made for all the world to be almost impotent in its power and scope. Worst of all, it frustrates the purpose of God laid down in the beginning when He said, 'Let us make man in our image and after our likeness.' Some will immediately ask me whether I do not believe in hell. My answer is very definite on this point. I most certainly DO BELIEVE in hell (Hades, Sheol, Gehenna), but the hell(Hades, Sheol, Gehenna) of the Bible and the hell of human tradition are not the same thing at all. The hell (Hades, Sheol, Gehenna) of tradition is hopeless and eternal, while the hell (Hades, Sheol, Gehenna) of the Scripture like every judgment of God is corrective, remedial, and restorative."

 

[createdtoworship]

Jude 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Obviously Mr. Hewey does not know the word angel is to a mistranslation The word angel simply means messenger; many time there are heavenly messengers as well as in some cases earthy messenger, you must weigh each verse closely.
NT:32 aggelos (ang'-el-os); from aggello [probably derived from NT:71; compare NT:34] (to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an "angel"; by implication, a pastor:
This was not a translation from the Greek, but instead the transliteration took the Greek word “aggelos” and concocted the word angel which simply means messenger


Rev 12:7-9: And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

9. By the Word of God, these angels are already consigned to the lake of fire, the moment they fell from heaven with Lucifer, their eternal damnation sealed (Luke 16:26). God has said, without condition, that the fallen angels will be cast into the lake of fire, God would be found untrue should the destiny of the fallen angels be otherwise. Likewise, there is the case of the Gentiles from Adam to Moses who, for the most part, are well described in Romans 1:18-32 as those who willfully rejected God and who, three times in this one context, are said to be abandoned by God to their sinful ways.
That is another lie Mr. Hewey missed Satan is not Lucifer. God created Satan who was a liar from the beginning never an angel but Satan has deceived carnal religious man to believe a lie.

This was God’s doing. And for this cause God sendeth them a working of error, that they should believe a lie... Nothing happens outside of God’s Sovereign and complete will of God.

2 Corinthians 11:14 speaking of Satan transformed into an angel of light if you look at the Greek the word transformed is NT:3345 metaschematizo (met-askh-ay-mat-id'-zo); from NT:3326 and a derivative of NT:4976; to transfigure or disguise; figuratively, to apply (by accommodation):

Is not what my point is that Satan has deceived or disguised God’s people that He is an Angel of light.
Man says that Satan IN THE BEGINNING was holy, but later fell from that estate. JESUS said of Satan, "You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a MURDERER (not an angel) from the BEGINNING, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him.

When he speaks a lie, he, speaks of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it. (Jn. 8:44).

The verse we have just quoted states that Satan "Adobe not" in the truth. In the Greek text this verb is the imperfect tense of (ed: Greek form of steko(?)), I keep my standing, or simply, I stand, and the form is (esteken(?)) meaning that even before the fall or as far back as this person existed HE WAS NOT TRUE.

Dr. Robert Young, in his Literal translation of the Bible, renders this verse: "He was a manslayer from the beginning, and in the truth HE HAS NOT STOOD, because there is no truth in him.

The Rotherham version reads: "He was a murderer from the beginning, and IN THE TRUTH HE STOOD NOT; because the truth was not in him."

J. B. Phillips gives the plainest and most accurate translation: "He ALWAYS WAS a MURDERER, and has NEVER DEALT WITH THE TRUTH, since the truth will have nothing to do with him.

Whenever he tells a lie, he speaks in character, for he is a liar and the father of lies."

MAN says that Satan IN THE BEGINNING was perfect and sinless.
But the apostle John, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, penned these words in regard to Satan's origin: "He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil SINS FROM THE BEGINNING" (I Jn. 3:8).

But the Devil, according to I Jn. 3:8 W-A-S A SINNER F-R-O-M T-H-E B-E-G-I-N-N-I-N-G!

Now, if we are to believe the Bible means what it says - and I believe it does - we must believe that from his very beginning SATAN WAS EVIL.
God is not so shallow and naïve as to have such a creature pull the wool over His eyes. Adam and Eves fall was as much a part of His plan as the death of Jesus on the cross; Satan is but a tool in God’s hands.

The main reason the concept of Satan being an angel makes so sense is the concept of some creative being having any power over God to a point where God has suffered loss.

There is no scriptural evidence, or even inference, that they are fallen angels. Revelation 12:7-9, Isaiah 14:12, Ezekiel 28:14-16, and Luke 10:18 may appear to support such a thought; but that is only when read from the point of view we learned from erroneous church dogma. Under the scrutiny of truth, and in the context of those verses, they cannot stand as foundations of support that devil or demons are fallen angels.

The verse you refered to "Satan" in Hebrew that signifies him as an angel
Job 1:6, 2:1 "Now there was a day when the sons of God (angels) came to present themselves before the Lord and Satan came also among them"

This is a lie. Lets look at the facts

NT:32
aggelos (ang'-el-os); from aggello [probably derived from NT:71; compare NT:34] (to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an "angel"; by implication, a pastor:

KJV - angel, messenger.



First of all the word angel means messenger it is not really a Greek word as tradition has portrayed but simply means messenger and oh yes there are heavenly messengers.

I have always found Job is speaking of the sons of Elohim (gods/God) this is not Satan it is man.

angels are angels, I am unsure where you are getting your information from. But to put all of your universalism to rest...."repent for the kingdom of heaven is near" Jesus first message was repent. So if everyone is saved already why should we repent at all. This phrase is used many times....

17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. –Matthew 4:17

“And they went out, and preached that men should repent.” –Mark 6:12

3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins; -Luke 3:3

7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. 9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 10 And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then? 11 He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise. 12 Then came also publicans to be baptized, and said unto him, Master, what shall we do? 13 And he said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed you. -Luke 3:7-13

3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. 4 Or those eighteen,† upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinnersa above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. –Luke 13:3-5

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that yours sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you.”
-Acts 3:20

 

[Ed Bana]

gradyll;


Angels are messenger it is called reading the original language to dig for truth beyond the letter that killeth. You are killing God’s Word with you letter.

I got my information from:(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc

Strong’s NT:9999 inserted word (x);This word angel was added by the translators for better readability in the English. There is no actual word in the Hebrew/Greek text. The word may be displayed in italics, or in parentheses or other brackets, to indicate that it is not in the original text. (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc

gradyll; angels are angels, I am unsure where you are getting your information from.

The word repent means change your mind something you obviously have a tuff time doing. No one ever said everyone is saved now. God has many ages to save the remainder of all mankind he never called. Do you even know what the Tabernclare of David is???

Acts 15: 16 (HCSB)
After these things I will return and will rebuild David's tent, which has fallen down. I will rebuild its ruins and will set it up again,
17 so that those who are left of mankind may seek the Lord—even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, says the Lord who does these things,
18 which have been known from long ago.

If anything has been put to rest it is your limited view of God's Word.

But to put all of your universalism to rest...."repent for the kingdom of heaven is near" Jesus first message was repent. So if everyone is saved already why should we repent at all. This phrase is used many times....

17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. –Matthew 4:17

“And they went out, and preached that men should repent.” –Mark 6:12

3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins; -Luke 3:3

7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. 9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 10 And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then? 11 He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise. 12 Then came also publicans to be baptized, and said unto him, Master, what shall we do? 13 And he said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed you. -Luke 3:7-13

3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. 4 Or those eighteen,† upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinnersa above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. –Luke 13:3-5

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that yours sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you.”
-Acts 3:20

 

[he-man]

gradyll;


Angels are messenger it is called reading the original language to dig for truth beyond the letter that killeth. You are killing God’s Word with you letter.

I got my information from:(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc

Strong’s NT:9999 inserted word (x);This word angel was added by the translators for better readability in the English. There is no actual word in the Hebrew/Greek text. The word may be displayed in italics, or in parentheses or other brackets, to indicate that it is not in the original text. (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc

Gen 19:1 And there came two angels/messengers H4397
to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;

H4397 המלאכים angel, seraph, cherub; messenger The actual Hebrew word as used by Strong's.

Gen 19:11 And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.

13 For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.

24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven

 

[Ed Bana]

Not a problem.

It looks like we need to check every reference when it comes the word angel. Notice both words means messenger.

When ever Satan's messengers are used you will always find the Strong's number 9999

Gen 19:1 And there came two angels/messengers H4397
to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;

H4397 המלאכים angel, seraph, cherub; messenger The actual Hebrew word as used by Strong's.

Gen 19:11 And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.

13 For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.

24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven

 

[createdtoworship]

gradyll;


Angels are messenger it is called reading the original language to dig for truth beyond the letter that killeth. You are killing God’s Word with you letter.

I got my information from:(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc

Strong’s NT:9999 inserted word (x);This word angel was added by the translators for better readability in the English. There is no actual word in the Hebrew/Greek text. The word may be displayed in italics, or in parentheses or other brackets, to indicate that it is not in the original text. (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc





The word repent means change your mind something you obviously have a tuff time doing. No one ever said everyone is saved now. God has many ages to save the remainder of all mankind he never called. Do you even know what the Tabernclare of David is???

Acts 15: 16 (HCSB)
After these things I will return and will rebuild David's tent, which has fallen down. I will rebuild its ruins and will set it up again,
17 so that those who are left of mankind may seek the Lord—even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, says the Lord who does these things,
18 which have been known from long ago.

If anything has been put to rest it is your limited view of God's Word.

I don't understand what your argument is. If you deny the presence of angels well...
Wuest Greek word studies say that Angels are confined to Hell....

Wuest, Kenneth S.: Wuest's Word Studies from the Greek New Testament : For the English Reader. Grand Rapids : Eerdmans, 1997, c1984, S. Studies in the Vocabulary of the Greek New Testament: p.48-49

"Hell. There are three Greek words, each referring to a different place, all of which are translated by the one word hell, a fact that causes considerable confusion in interpreting the passages where they occur. These words are geenna, haides (γεεννα, αἱδε&#962, and tartaroō (ταρταρο&#969. The first comes into English in the word Gehenna (Γεηενν&#945, the second, in the word Hades (ἁδε&#962, and the third, in the word Tartarus (Ταρταρυ&#962.
Geenna (Γεενν&#945 refers to the final abode of the wicked dead, called The Lake of Fire in The Revelation (20:14, 15). Where this word occurs, the translation should be hell. It is found in Mt. 5:22, 29, 30, 10:28, 18:9, 23:15, 33; Mk. 9:43, 45, 47; Lk. 12:5; Jas. 3:6.
Haides (ἁιδε&#962 refers to the temporary abode of the dead before the resurrection and ascension of the Lord Jesus, the part reserved for the wicked dead, called haides (αἱδε&#962 (Lk. 16:23), the other for the righteous dead, called Abraham’s bosom (Lk. 16:22), paradise (Lk. 23:43),18 haides (αἱδε&#962 (Acts 2:27, 31); and to the temporary abode of the wicked dead from those events until the Great White Throne judgment, the righteous dead going at once to be with the Lord (Phil. 1:23; II Cor. 5:8). The word haides (αἱδε&#962 is from the Greek stem id (ἰ&#948 which means “to see,” and the Greek letter Alpha prefixed which makes the composite word mean “not to see,” the noun meaning “the unseen.” The word itself in its noun form refers to the unseen world made up of all moral intelligences not possessing a physical body. These would include the holy angels, the fallen angels, the demons, the wicked dead, and the righteous dead. As to the inhabitants in the unseen world, the holy angels are in heaven, the fallen angels in Tartarus, the wicked dead in Hades, the righteous dead in heaven, and the demons in the atmosphere of the earth and in the bottomless pit. All these are included in the unseen world. The context should decide as to whether the Greek word haides (αἱδε&#962 should be transliterated or translated. Where the context deals with departed human beings and their place of abode in the unseen world, it would seem that the word should be transliterated, and the specific name “Hades” be given that place. These places are Mt. 11:23; Lk. 10:15, 16:23; Acts 2:27, 31; Rev. 6:8, 20:13, 14. Where the context refers to the unseen world as a whole, the word should be translated, as for instance: Mt. 16:18, “the gates (councils) of the Unseen,” namely, the councils of Satan in the unseen world, shall not prevail against the church; or Rev. 1:18, “I have the keys of the Unseen and of death.” Our Lord controls the entire unseen world.
Tartarosas (Ταρταροσα&#962 is the word in II Pet. 2:4 “cast down to hell.” The fallen angels were sent to their temporary prison house, Tartarus (Ταρταρυ&#962, until the Great White Throne judgment. Make a study of these places where the word “hell” occurs, in the light of the distinctive Greek word found in each place, and see how much better you understand these passages.

Wuest, Kenneth S.: Wuest's Word Studies from the Greek New Testament : For the English Reader. Grand Rapids : Eerdmans, 1997, c1984, S. Studies in the Vocabulary of the Greek New Testament: p.48-49

 

[Ed Bana]

No I do not deny the presence of messengers. Satan was never an angel and Satan has no angels he has evil messengers.

Hell is a pagan word mistranslated from three Greek words and one Hebrew Word. There are many bias Greek and Hebrew reference and dictionaries. god's Word is divine and cuts thought all the lies.

Hell comes from an English word meaning to bury. You go to Great Britton today you can hell your potatoes. Wuest Greek word studies is wrong. Lets look at God's Word about who Satan is and God's Word will reveal he was a liar from his beginning and never Lucifer. Which is a religious myth from Rome.

I don't understand what your argument is. If you deny the presence of angels well...
Wuest Greek word studies say that Angels are confined to Hell....

Wuest, Kenneth S.: Wuest's Word Studies from the Greek New Testament : For the English Reader. Grand Rapids : Eerdmans, 1997, c1984, S. Studies in the Vocabulary of the Greek New Testament: p.48-49

"Hell. There are three Greek words, each referring to a different place, all of which are translated by the one word hell, a fact that causes considerable confusion in interpreting the passages where they occur. These words are geenna, haides (γεεννα, αἱδε&#962, and tartaroō (ταρταρο&#969. The first comes into English in the word Gehenna (Γεηενν&#945, the second, in the word Hades (ἁδε&#962, and the third, in the word Tartarus (Ταρταρυ&#962.
Geenna (Γεενν&#945 refers to the final abode of the wicked dead, called The Lake of Fire in The Revelation (20:14, 15). Where this word occurs, the translation should be hell. It is found in Mt. 5:22, 29, 30, 10:28, 18:9, 23:15, 33; Mk. 9:43, 45, 47; Lk. 12:5; Jas. 3:6.
Haides (ἁιδε&#962 refers to the temporary abode of the dead before the resurrection and ascension of the Lord Jesus, the part reserved for the wicked dead, called haides (αἱδε&#962 (Lk. 16:23), the other for the righteous dead, called Abraham’s bosom (Lk. 16:22), paradise (Lk. 23:43),18 haides (αἱδε&#962 (Acts 2:27, 31); and to the temporary abode of the wicked dead from those events until the Great White Throne judgment, the righteous dead going at once to be with the Lord (Phil. 1:23; II Cor. 5:8). The word haides (αἱδε&#962 is from the Greek stem id (ἰ&#948 which means “to see,” and the Greek letter Alpha prefixed which makes the composite word mean “not to see,” the noun meaning “the unseen.” The word itself in its noun form refers to the unseen world made up of all moral intelligences not possessing a physical body. These would include the holy angels, the fallen angels, the demons, the wicked dead, and the righteous dead. As to the inhabitants in the unseen world, the holy angels are in heaven, the fallen angels in Tartarus, the wicked dead in Hades, the righteous dead in heaven, and the demons in the atmosphere of the earth and in the bottomless pit. All these are included in the unseen world. The context should decide as to whether the Greek word haides (αἱδε&#962 should be transliterated or translated. Where the context deals with departed human beings and their place of abode in the unseen world, it would seem that the word should be transliterated, and the specific name “Hades” be given that place. These places are Mt. 11:23; Lk. 10:15, 16:23; Acts 2:27, 31; Rev. 6:8, 20:13, 14. Where the context refers to the unseen world as a whole, the word should be translated, as for instance: Mt. 16:18, “the gates (councils) of the Unseen,” namely, the councils of Satan in the unseen world, shall not prevail against the church; or Rev. 1:18, “I have the keys of the Unseen and of death.” Our Lord controls the entire unseen world.
Tartarosas (Ταρταροσα&#962 is the word in II Pet. 2:4 “cast down to hell.” The fallen angels were sent to their temporary prison house, Tartarus (Ταρταρυ&#962, until the Great White Throne judgment. Make a study of these places where the word “hell” occurs, in the light of the distinctive Greek word found in each place, and see how much better you understand these passages.

Wuest, Kenneth S.: Wuest's Word Studies from the Greek New Testament : For the English Reader. Grand Rapids : Eerdmans, 1997, c1984, S. Studies in the Vocabulary of the Greek New Testament: p.48-49

 

[createdtoworship]

No I do not deny the presence of messengers. Satan was never an angel and Satan has no angels he has evil messengers.

Hell is a pagan word mistranslated from three Greek words and one Hebrew Word. There are many bias Greek and Hebrew reference and dictionaries. god's Word is divine and cuts thought all the lies.

Hell comes from an English word meaning to bury. You go to Great Britton today you can hell your potatoes. Wuest Greek word studies is wrong. Lets look at God's Word about who Satan is and God's Word will reveal he was a liar from his beginning and never Lucifer. Which is a religious myth from Rome.

what is tarturus?

 

[Ed Bana]

Tarturus mention only one time in the Bible. Its a place where Satan and his evil messengers go, not people.

God's people go to Hades and Gehenna. Hades is the place of the dead. Gehenna is a place where God's people go to be purged. [/font]

what is tarturus?

 

[createdtoworship]

Tarturus mention only one time in the Bible. Its a place where Satan and his evil messengers go, not people.

God's people go to Hades and Gehenna. Hades is the place of the dead. Gehenna is a place where God's people go to be purged. [/font]

thats correct, however your definition of Hell is a little off....The word Hell comes from the Anglo-Saxon helan, to cover, or hide. Hence in some parts of England (particularly Cornwall), the tiling or slating of a house is called heling to this day, as are the corers of books in Lancashire.

 

[Ed Bana]

Not a problem. I just passed on what I had read some where.

thats correct, however your definition of Hell is a little off....The word Hell comes from the Anglo-Saxon helan, to cover, or hide. Hence in some parts of England (particularly Cornwall), the tiling or slating of a house is called heling to this day, as are the corers of books in Lancashire.

 

[createdtoworship]

Not a problem. I just passed on what I had read some where.

secondly,
You can't pick and chose which of strongs lists of definitions that you choose to use and not use the designated word. Like angel or Hell, you can't say that angel is messenger because angels do more than messengers. Or hell being the grave for example, Hell is more than the grave. So the english words are correct and your are not.

Hell is more than the grave because Jesus gave gifts unto men while decended in Hell
Ephesians 4 states
8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

1 peter three states

19 After being made alive,[a] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—

 

[Lord Herdsetk]

k

 

[Ed Bana]

I do not pick and choose Strong's lis of definitions I already showed you my reference onthe word angel and that more then not it simply means messenger. I have a Strong's on my laptop to which i can look at teach verse and with its Strongs' number.
Same with Hades or Gehenna. Yes there is a Hades and there is a Gehenna but the word hell is a mistranslation. Hades and Gehenna are a place of the dead and Gehenna is for believers not the lost. God's punishments are corrective and have a limited time that is where we do not disagree. Hades and Gehenna is a spirtual place where men's Spirit are purged of all sin.
　
The word hell it is a Teutonic pagan word which comes from a multiple of pagan places. I do believe in the three Greek words Hades, Gehenna and Tartarus, and the Hebrew Sheol; but they simple mean the place of the dead.
　

New Testament reference by Ballantine (1934) which contain footnotes, marginal readings and appendages which point out that several key Greek and Hebrew words regarding Hell have been MIStranslated by such Bible versions as the King James Bible.

I have a list of Bibles which show the translations that contain the word Hell as well as the ones that don’t in the text is NOT exhaustive--we are discovering more translations all the time in which the translators did not feel justified in using the Teutonic pagan word Hell to translate the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek words Gehenna, Hades, and Tartarus.

​

The word hell is not in Greek or Hebrew or Aramaic the language the Bible was written in; but it comes from an Angle Saxon word “hel” meaning to bury. It is more then a mis-translation it a premeditated deliberate assault on which we already discussed.

Gehenna: Mentioned twelve or thirteen times in the gospel. This is the word the fundamental preachers love to use to burn up the sinner. They are the first to yell foul if something does not fit in context; BUT: Gehenna: Referring to the Valley of Hinnom, or Gehenna which is the city dump outside the walls of Jerusalem; a place of constant burning of refuge. Those who go to Gehenna are not sinners of the world; but are sinners of God’s people. (how precious is this a type of purification outside of God’s holy city. All things that are not of God will be purified bf God’s holy judgment. This word is used not for sinner, murders or liars; it is used with the word “BROTHER”.

​

​

​

Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell (Gehenna) fire.​

​

　
Gehenna is not physical flames, even though Gehenna is the garbage dump outside the city of Jerusalem. Gehenna Judgment is actually spiritual in nature, it is the reaping of what Isreal had sown by killing the prophets and their children in the fire to Molech and Baal at Topheth and in the Valley of Ben Hiddom (later called Gehenna). God warned that He is the only God, there is no other like Him.
　
　
Ha-des (hadez) [[Gr Haides ]] 1 Gr. Myth. a) the home of the dead, beneath the earth b) the god of the underworld 2 Bible the state or resting place of the dead: name used in some modern translations of the New Testament. Did you know the Greeks have a temple in honor of the God of death ‘Hades”.

So if you believe Gehenna is a place for the lost then please give me chapter and verse.

secondly,
You can't pick and chose which of strongs lists of definitions that you choose to use and not use the designated word. Like angel or Hell, you can't say that angel is messenger because angels do more than messengers. Or hell being the grave for example, Hell is more than the grave. So the english words are correct and your are not.

Hell is more than the grave because Jesus gave gifts unto men while decended in Hell

Ephesians 4 states
8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

1 peter three states

19 After being made alive,[a] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—

How come none of these vese spea of eternal torture?

 

[createdtoworship]

I do not pick and choose Strong's lis of definitions I already showed you my reference onthe word angel and that more then not it simply means messenger. I have a Strong's on my laptop to which i can look at teach verse and with its Strongs' number.
Same with Hades or Gehenna. Yes there is a Hades and there is a Gehenna but the word hell is a mistranslation. Hades and Gehenna are a place of the dead and Gehenna is for believers not the lost. God's punishments are corrective and have a limited time that is where we do not disagree. Hades and Gehenna is a spirtual place where men's Spirit are purged of all sin.
　
The word hell it is a Teutonic pagan word which comes from a multiple of pagan places. I do believe in the three Greek words Hades, Gehenna and Tartarus, and the Hebrew Sheol; but they simple mean the place of the dead.
　

New Testament reference by Ballantine (1934) which contain footnotes, marginal readings and appendages which point out that several key Greek and Hebrew words regarding Hell have been MIStranslated by such Bible versions as the King James Bible.

I have a list of Bibles which show the translations that contain the word Hell as well as the ones that don’t in the text is NOT exhaustive--we are discovering more translations all the time in which the translators did not feel justified in using the Teutonic pagan word Hell to translate the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek words Gehenna, Hades, and Tartarus.

​

The word hell is not in Greek or Hebrew or Aramaic the language the Bible was written in; but it comes from an Angle Saxon word “hel” meaning to bury. It is more then a mis-translation it a premeditated deliberate assault on which we already discussed.

Gehenna: Mentioned twelve or thirteen times in the gospel. This is the word the fundamental preachers love to use to burn up the sinner. They are the first to yell foul if something does not fit in context; BUT: Gehenna: Referring to the Valley of Hinnom, or Gehenna which is the city dump outside the walls of Jerusalem; a place of constant burning of refuge. Those who go to Gehenna are not sinners of the world; but are sinners of God’s people. (how precious is this a type of purification outside of God’s holy city. All things that are not of God will be purified bf God’s holy judgment. This word is used not for sinner, murders or liars; it is used with the word “BROTHER”.

​

​

​

Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell (Gehenna) fire.​

​

　
Gehenna is not physical flames, even though Gehenna is the garbage dump outside the city of Jerusalem. Gehenna Judgment is actually spiritual in nature, it is the reaping of what Isreal had sown by killing the prophets and their children in the fire to Molech and Baal at Topheth and in the Valley of Ben Hiddom (later called Gehenna). God warned that He is the only God, there is no other like Him.
　
　
Ha-des (hadez) [[Gr Haides ]] 1 Gr. Myth. a) the home of the dead, beneath the earth b) the god of the underworld 2 Bible the state or resting place of the dead: name used in some modern translations of the New Testament. Did you know the Greeks have a temple in honor of the God of death ‘Hades”.

So if you believe Gehenna is a place for the lost then please give me chapter and verse.




How come none of these vese spea of eternal torture?

it sounds like you have your own little made up religion. You really just need to read the Bible more and get out of the greek stuff. I think it's hurting your judgement. I mean I can take any word, and I mean any word and pick out of the definitions of strongs and make it mean what ever I want to. Thats a deceptive manner of doing things. We need to trust the translators more- we don't speak the original languages and even if we know how to use strongs we still don't know the grammar and the lexical aids and how to use all of that stuff. We just need the Bible in a fairly accurate translation such as KJV or something like that (NASB for example).

you said hades and gehennah were for believers to be purged from their sin. Like purgatory. Well I suggest doing an internet on "purgatory false" and see what you come up with.

 

[Ed Bana]

Your wrong gradyll. It is not the translators we need to trust it is the Spirit of Truth. John 16: 13 does not say bias translators, is come, they will guide you into all truth

John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
This is not my own religion there are thousands of God's people who lets God lead and guide them into all truth instead of the 10,000 daughters of Babylon.​

Where is your judgement unless it fits some religious bias just like you Mr. Hewey who had no clue what he was speaking of. Strong's is jst a small part of it. We have not got intothe meat of this conversation. KJ is so full of errors "easter, hell". Please siff.​

I need some time on this one, but it sounds like you have your own little made up religion. You really just need to read the Bible more and get out of the greek stuff. I think it's hurting your judgement. I mean I can take any word, and I mean any word and pick out of the definitions of strongs and make it mean what ever I want to. Thats a deceptive manner of doing things. We need to trust the translators more- we don't speak the original languages and even if we know how to use strongs we still don't know the grammar and the lexical aids and how to use all of that stuff. We just need the Bible in a fairly accurate translation such as KJV or something like that (NASB for example). But I will need more time sifting through your post.

 

[Lord Herdsetk]

I need some time on this one, but it sounds like you have your own little made up religion. You really just need to read the Bible more and get out of the greek stuff. I think it's hurting your judgement. I mean I can take any word, and I mean any word and pick out of the definitions of strongs and make it mean what ever I want to. Thats a deceptive manner of doing things. We need to trust the translators more- we don't speak the original languages and even if we know how to use strongs we still don't know the grammar and the lexical aids and how to use all of that stuff. We just need the Bible in a fairly accurate translation such as KJV or something like that (NASB for example). But I will need more time sifting through your post.

I can confirm that most of Ed's post was correct.

Its kind of impossible to 'get out of the Greek stuff' when a large chunk of the new testament was written in Greek originally. So if you wanted to find the original meaning of the text, looking at the language it was originally written in would be your best bet. The English language is already complicated, imagine how much more complicated it is to accurately translate the meaning of the new testament 2000 something years after it was written in a different language, and for us, in a different culture with a different mindset on how we view God. Its best to go back to the roots.

 

[Ed Bana]

Thank you Lord. There are so many different was of seeing things in God's Word. The deeper you go the more awesome it gets.

Sorry I go off on the deep end with this thought. There are a lot of words in the scripture that could be in total agreement with your thought here on riddles; God Word is a riddle, a puzzle and is deep and it is hidden mystery. So many think they have it all figured out; and even believe the message is simple; but no it is not a simple Word; it is a progressive Word, a hidden Word.

I think God’s Word is like a onion; layer upon layer or here is a scriptural way of putting it; Gen 37:3 Now Israel loved Joseph more than all his children, because he was the son of his old age: and he made him a coat of many colours. (Heb) Pieces) KJV

Strong’s: Hebrew OT:6446

Pieces: pac (pas); from OT:6461; properly, the palm (of the hand) or sole (of the foot) [compare OT:6447]; by implication (plural) a long and sleeved tunic (perhaps simply a wide one; from the original sense of the root, i.e. of many breadths):

I like the thought of pieces more; you see it is line upon line, precept upon precept; here a little there a little that is how you find truth.
Today we have all kinds of religious clothing; Baptist clothing, Catholic clothing etc. pieces.



To See: (Gk) with wide-open eyes, as at something remarkable

See: Strong’s NT:3700

John 4:2423 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


Matthew 13: 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says: 'Hearing you will hear and shall not understand, And seeing you will see and not perceive; 15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed, Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them.' 16 "But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear;

Ephesians 3:10
To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
　
And then he also writes of our being "good stewards of the MANIFOLD grace of God." (1 Peter 4:10).


Manifold-- the Greek word used here is "poikilos " and means: numerous and, varied, divers; many-fold. It bespeaks of that which is of every hue and color, size, quantity, with the emphasis being on diversity more than just on numbers. Thus Wuest translates the two points as: "many different kinds of testings," and "the variegated grace of God."

Though only translated twice as "manifold" it is used eight times in the Scripture as "divers." It is a marvellous thing to contemplate-- that no matter how diverse the temptations and trials that may befall us, no matter how variegated and multiplied, yet GRACE faces every test with superabounding sufficiency, and ultimately secures the victory. As goes the chorus:

My point is the deeper you dig in God’s Word the deeper it gets; it is hidden… That is why when you seek truth your eyes should be wide open.

I can confirm that most of Ed's post was correct.

Its kind of impossible to 'get out of the Greek stuff' when a large chunk of the new testament was written in Greek originally. So if you wanted to find the original meaning of the text, looking at the language it was originally written in would be your best bet. The English language is already complicated, imagine how much more complicated it is to accurately translate the meaning of the new testament 2000 something years after it was written in a different language, and for us, in a different culture with a different mindset on how we view God. Its best to go back to the roots.

 

[he-man]

Not a problem.

It looks like we need to check every reference when it comes the word angel. Notice both words means messenger.

When ever Satan's messengers are used you will always find the Strong's number 9999

There is no 9999 in Strong's. The word used in the NT is
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]G32 άγγελος angel, messenger ΟΕ engel, ult. via eccles. L. from Gk angelos ‘messenger’.[/FONT][/FONT]

2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels/messengers that sinned, but He cast down to the grave, and delivered into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;