Let's Talk About Hell (3)

[Timothew]

Demon Kitty

 

[Timothew]

 

[he-man]

quote]

GRAVE

That is the Hell of it.

 

[createdtoworship]

I think it may be a mistake to come up with a theory, draw a picture, and then go looking for verses to back them up.

it's better to have theories that aren't' backed up at all by scripture?

 

[Timothew]

it's better to have theories that aren't' backed up at all by scripture?

No, it's better to read scripture and let it inform you than it is to read scripture in order to back up a predetermined theory.

If you start with the theory that there is a hell of eternal torment, everytime you read "destruction" you substitute "torment". If you go in without a theory to support, you are more likely to understand the words as they are written, as the Author intended.

 

[createdtoworship]

No, it's better to read scripture and let it inform you than it is to read scripture in order to back up a predetermined theory.

If you start with the theory that there is a hell of eternal torment, everytime you read "destruction" you substitute "torment". If you go in without a theory to support, you are more likely to understand the words as they are written, as the Author intended.

so when the rich man was in torments it was just a fuzzy feeling?

 

[Timothew]

so when the rich man was in torments it was just a fuzzy feeling?

Not at all. He was a man in a story. It was a parable.

So when Paul said the wages of sin is death it was actually not death but eternal torture?

 

[createdtoworship]

Not at all. He was a man in a story. It was a parable.

So when Paul said the wages of sin is death it was actually not death but eternal torture?

spiritual death is eternal physical death is temporary so you tell me was it physical or spiritual. because sin is spiritual not physical. and regarding the parable it's a known fact that when a persons name is mentioned it's literal and not a parable because no parables in the new testament reveal the actual names of persons because you don't need names in a parable.

 

[Timothew]

spiritual death is eternal physical death is temporary

I need the reference for this please. The chapter and verse that says spiritual death is eternal, physical death is temporary.

 

[theWaris1]

spiritual death is eternal physical death is temporary so you tell me was it physical or spiritual. because sin is spiritual not physical. and regarding the parable it's a known fact that when a persons name is mentioned it's literal and not a parable because no parables in the new testament reveal the actual names of persons because you don't need names in a parable.

Just because you don't need names in a parable doesn't mean you cant use them.

Would a man in HELL have eyes to open?
Isn't it just the spirit of the dead that would go to HELL? Or the physical bodys would go to HELL?

Do you know this parable would negate what the old testament says about death?

Ecclesiastes 9:5 read it
HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For the living know that they shall die; but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.


If the dead know not anything then this teaching of Christ must be a parable..

It's important to note that the Beggar's body was taken to Gehenna(hell) and not his soul which clearly proves this is a parable.


In the old Testament Eleazar was a son of Aaron and already in Abraham's bosom. This Eleazar could easily heard Moses teachings as mentioned in the parable.
To be in the bosom meant you were close to the heart or a relative. Judah had 5 brothers from his Mom. Now if they weren't persuaded by Moses and the prophets they wouldn't be by one that arose from the dead(Christ) either. So the people who didn't accept Moses and the prophets(put them to death) were not going to Accept Christ either. It's very prophetic concerning those in Judea who would not accept him..

The beggar could easily be the Gentiles who were looked down upon the the Jews(rich man) as dogs but were going to be placed in the bosom of Abraham now instead of the rich men..

 

[createdtoworship]

Just because you don't need names in a parable doesn't mean you cant use them.

Would a man in HELL have eyes to open?
Isn't it just the spirit of the dead that would go to HELL? Or the physical bodys would go to HELL?

Do you know this parable would negate what the old testament says about death?

Ecclesiastes 9:5 read it
HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For the living know that they shall die; but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.


If the dead know not anything then this teaching of Christ must be a parable..

It's important to note that the Beggar's body was taken to Gehenna(hell) and not his soul which clearly proves this is a parable.


In the old Testament Eleazar was a son of Aaron and already in Abraham's bosom. This Eleazar could easily heard Moses teachings as mentioned in the parable.
To be in the bosom meant you were close to the heart or a relative. Judah had 5 brothers from his Mom. Now if they weren't persuaded by Moses and the prophets they wouldn't be by one that arose from the dead(Christ) either. So the people who didn't accept Moses and the prophets(put them to death) were not going to Accept Christ either. It's very prophetic concerning those in Judea who would not accept him..

The beggar could easily be the Gentiles who were looked down upon the the Jews(rich man) as dogs but were going to be placed in the bosom of Abraham now instead of the rich men..

it's bad hermeneutics to spiritulize the parable like you did, you need to read the context. The passage is obviously to spark fear into the reader like so many of Christs words did. He didn't bring peace but a sword the scriptures state. Both body and soul go to hell for sure the scripture states that after the resurrection of the damned they will be headed body and all to hell.

 

[createdtoworship]

I need the reference for this please. The chapter and verse that says spiritual death is eternal, physical death is temporary.

Matt. 25:46; Mark 3:29; Heb. 6:2; 2 Thess. 1:9; Matt. 18:8; 25:41; .... And I would like a verse reference for your view then firstly before anymore of our conversation. Any questions?

 

[theWaris1]

it's bad hermeneutics to spiritulize the parable like you did, you need to read the context. The passage is obviously to spark fear into the reader like so many of Christs words did. He didn't bring peace but a sword the scriptures state. Both body and soul go to hell for sure the scripture states that after the resurrection of the damned they will be headed body and all to hell.

it's bad hermeneutics to place a physical body in HELL regardless of what you want to happen to sinners.

The scripture plainly says that the dead have no thoughts. They cease to think. Yet you seek to over ride that with the fears of his parables. You are not rightly dividing the scripture but hold onto the falsehoods you grew up with.

 

[createdtoworship]

it's bad hermeneutics to place a physical body in HELL regardless of what you want to happen to sinners.

The scripture plainly says that the dead have no thoughts. They cease to think. Yet you seek to over ride that with the fears of his parables. You are not rightly dividing the scripture but hold onto the falsehoods you grew up with.

I didn't grow up with this docrine, I studied it out carefully at Bible College. You? Do you even go to church? Is there an organized religion behind your views?

 

[createdtoworship]

when no body agrees with you on these issues it's a pretty good indication that what you believe is false. It's also very prideful to believe that God only talks to us and not to our pastors first and foremost.

 

[Lord Herdsetk]

Why would God talk to our pastors first and foremost?

 

[createdtoworship]

Why would God talk to our pastors first and foremost?

because he has put leaders and bishops as heads over the flock of God. If you are just a sheep and not a Bishop or an elder than you need to pray that God give you a Shepard.

1 Timothy 5:17
Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

 

[Lord Herdsetk]

What if that pastor is wrong? And aren't we supposed to be a royal priesthood?

1 Peter 2:5-9
5 you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 For it stands in Scripture: "Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone,
a cornerstone chosen and precious,
and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”
7 So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe,
“The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” 8 and
“A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.” They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.
9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

I guess what I'm saying is, if our pastor is teaching something not true, shouldn't it be our duty as fellow believers to correct them?

 

[theWaris1]

when no body agrees with you on these issues it's a pretty good indication that what you believe is false. It's also very prideful to believe that God only talks to us and not to our pastors first and foremost.

There are plenty of people who agree on these issues even though the mainstream churches may not but they teach many falsehoods.

 

[createdtoworship]

There are plenty of people who agree on these issues even though the mainstream churches may not but they teach many falsehoods.

how many pastors agree with you, I was just wondering.