Let the Wise Consider These Things

[Douggg]

Jesus did warn people to get out of the holy Land before the Great Trib commences.
But as we see in Revelation 12, half will get to safety and the rest will remain.

Actually, what Jesus said was to flee to the mountains.

Matthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

But the main point I am making is if at the time of the abomination of desolation, it is during your projected Christian nation of Beulah - why would Jesus say pray that it is not on the sabbath

Christians aren't restricted in their travel on the sabbath, but Jews, such as make up the nation of Israel right now, are.

 

[keras]

Actually, what Jesus said was to flee to the mountains.

Matthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

But the main point I am making is if at the time of the abomination of desolation, it is during your projected Christian nation of Beulah - why would Jesus say pray that it is not on the sabbath

Christians aren't restricted in their travel on the sabbath, but Jews, such as make up the nation of Israel right now, are.

I view Matthew 24:16 as referring at least partially, to the Christian Jews in 70 AD.
I have visited Pella, where they fled to.

Re the Sabbath, My Sabbath is on Sunday, literally the seventh day of my week, as it is for most of the world.
Why is it so hard for you and others, to see how Judaism and Islam, plus the raft of other false religions, will all be gone and not even remembered after the Lord has wiped out all their 'holy' places and discredited them all?
When the powerful and charismatic man arises and takes over the One World Govt, as Prophesied, he will demand worship of himself; on pain of death. Revelation 13:15

My projected nation of Beulah?
Isaiah 62:4 plainly, indisputably, says that the Lord will call the land: Beulah. Why can you not see that this is the ultimate aim of God, to have a people in His holy Land, being His Light to the nations, Isaiah 49:3-8. Matthew 5:14-16 and His Witnesses to the world; Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27

 

[Douggg]

I view Matthew 24:16 as referring at least partially, to the Christian Jews in 70 AD.
I have visited Pella, where they fled to.

Matthew 24:16 is end times, after the gospel has been preached to the nations in Matthew 24:14.

The fleeing to the mountains warning associated with the 70 ad event is in Luke 21:20-21 when Jerusalem is encompassed by armies, not when the abomination of desolation is standing in the holy place (Matthew 24:15).

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

Re the Sabbath, My Sabbath is on Sunday, literally the seventh day of my week, as it is for most of the world.

Sunday is called the Lord's day in the bible. And there is no restriction on travel for Christians, unlike the Jews on the sabbath.

So it will not be a nation made up of Christians, but the current nation of Israel made up of mostly Jews, who observe the restrictions on travel on the sabbath.

Which in turn obviously means your solar event replacement nation of Christians theory is not going to happen.

When the powerful and charismatic man arises and takes over the One World Govt, as Prophesied, he will demand worship of himself; on pain of death. Revelation 13:15

keras, that person when he has become the beast-king is in Daniel 11:36, claiming to be God. In Daniel 11:37... it reveals more about him.

37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

"the God of his fathers" is the expression the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob which is found in Genesis 50:24 and Exodus 3:16. The person will be a Jew.

Exodus 3:16 Go, and gather the elders of Israel together, and say unto them, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you, and seen that which is done to you in Egypt:

The covenant the person will break by claiming to be God is the Mt. Sinai covenant, not some deal made by a non-Jewish world leader as in your scenario.

The covenant to be confirmed for 7 years in Daniel 9:27 is the Mt. Sinai covenant. And the confirmation process is in Deuteronomy 31:9-13. The Antichrist will be a Jew.

 

[keras]

Jeremiah 8:10 I will give the Land to new owners:

Zephaniah 3:1-8 Woe to the place of oppression, filthy and defiled, they heed no warning voice and ignore God’s rebukes. They won’t take correction or place their trust in their Creator. Their leaders have no concern for the people and prophet and priest alike profane the Holy Scriptures.
The people who ‘won’t take correction and trust their Creator’, is the Jewish State of Israel.

The Lord has judged and punished them before, their land laid waste and the towns deserted and He thought: surely now they will fear Me and will accept instruction, but they continue on in their evil deeds and they show no shame for it.

Judah has been punished and exiled before; by Babylon and by Rome. But as Ezekiel 21:14 tells us, there will be a third time.

Therefore: look out for Me, for the Day when I will stand up to witness against you, on the Day that I execute justice upon the nations, for I will pour out My fierce anger and the whole earth will be enveloped by the fire of My wrath.
This will be the great and terrible Day of the Lord’s vengeance and fiery wrath against the nations. Prophesied in the Bible over 100 times. Habakkuk 3:12 2 Peter 3:7, Revelation 6:12-17, +



Zephaniah 3:11-13 On that Day, Jerusalem, I shall wipe away your shame for all the transgressions committed in you, for I shall remove all your proud and arrogant citizens, only the humble and peaceful people will remain and those who never practise evil or speak lies, they will settle in the Land and nothing will disturb them.
This is the great Second Exodus of all of God’s people into all of the holy Land. Every faithful Christian: a vast multitude from every tribe, race, nation and language. Isaiah 66:18-21, Ezekiel 34:11-31, Romans 9:24=26, Revelation 7:9 and the amazing stories in Psalms 107.

Zephaniah 3:9-10 They will all know a pure language, so everyone will know the true Name of the Lord and will praise Him with one accord. My worshippers, all the righteous people will come from afar to worship the Lord and bring offerings to Him. People from every race, nation and language, all the born again Christian people, will travel there to live, in the new nation of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, while the rest of the world is ruled by a One World Government. Daniel 7:23, Revelation 17:12

Zephaniah 3:14-17 Daughter of Jerusalem; sing for joy! For the Lord has taken away your punishments and has cast out your enemies. Now the Lord is with you and you need never again fear disaster.
On the Day of the Lord’s wrath; This is the message for My people: Fear not, stand firm in your faith, your God will keep you safe and will rejoice over you.
Ref: REB, CJB, KJV. Some verses condensed and paraphrased.



This chapter of Zephaniah encapsulates the soon to happen end times story.
It tells how Jerusalem, the holy Land is denigrated by its ungodly inhabitants and will rejoice when they are gone.

How those enemies of the Lord, the evil neighbors, Jeremiah 12:14, and all who reject the Salvation of Jesus, will be uprooted and gone, then the holy Land resettled by the Lord’s faithful believers. Ezekiel 34:11-31 tells it plainly.



Jeremiah 7:30-34 & 8:1-13 The people of Judah have done wrong, they worship idols and have no regard for their Creator....Therefore, the time is coming when I shall fill the valley of Topeth with their corpses.......All the survivors of this wicked race, from wherever I have banished them, would rather die than live. Isaiah 22:14

...Judah is incurable in their waywardness......I listen, but I hear not one word of remorse ....My people do not know the Judgements of the Lord. How can you say: We are wise and we have the Law of God, when your scribes and priests have falsified it? The wise are shamed and where is wisdom in them?
Therefore I will give their wives to others and give their land to new owners, for all of their prophets and priests are frauds....on My Day of reckoning, they will fall with a great crash. I shall surely consume them says the Lord and there will be no grapes on the vine, [Israel] and no figs on the fig tree. [Judah]

We Christians are told by Paul in 1 Thessalonians 5:4-5, that we should know God’s plans for what will happen in the near future. Zephaniah 3 gives it to us, confirmed by the sequence of Revelation chapters 6-7.

What is presented to you in these scriptures, is God’s Promises to His faithful people, His blessings of peace and prosperity, of joy and happiness, of security and long life, as all who love Him and keep the Commandments; will live in His Land.

It is the prophetic parallel of ancient Israel, where Jesus led the people through the desert and how most of them refused to accept the Promise. 1 Corinthians 10:6-13
Ezekiel 20:34-38 tells how, once again, some of His people will revolt and rebel and they will not be allowed to enter the Land of Israel.

In today’s situation, we have many who have accepted the Gospel, but who have chosen their own beliefs about what God intends to do for His people and during this forthcoming test, 1 Peter 4:12, they may fail to stand firm in their trust that the Lord will protect them. This won’t lose their salvation, but it will be a serious disadvantage, 1 Corinthians 3:13-15

The great chapter of Isaiah 35:1-10, is one of the many prophesies that describe the Lord’s faithful Christian people entering the holy Land, says: ...no one unclean will go there....The Lord’s people, set free: will enter Zion with shouts of triumph.

Psalms 107 describes how the Lord will help His people to travel to the holy Land.

 

[Douggg]

keras, in Revelation 13, there are two beasts. One which comes out of the sea. The other which comes out of the earth.

It is commonly believed that the sea represents the nations, and the earth represents Israel.

The second beast that comes out of the earth is the false prophet. Which would mean that the false prophet will be a Jew.

The first beast that comes out of the sea, with the seven heads and ten horns - would represent kings associated with the Roman Empire. One of those heads, the mortally wounded but healed head - would be the beast-king.

Which from the Daniel 11:37 verse indicates that the beast-king also will be a Jew.

So the whole scenario, the false prophet, the Antichrist turned beast, the pray that A.o.D appearance not be on the sabbath - has Jew written all over it, not Christian.

The armies the beast-king will command will be gentiles, and the kings of the earth will be gentiles, so it will involve gentile rejectors of Christ in mass numbers - least we say the masses in rebellion will be Jewish. The Jews themselves en-masse will be targets of the beast-king, false prophet, and Satan's persecution.

The woman in Daniel 12 is Israel, not the church. Again, a prophecy concerning Israel. The scenario is not going to be a Christian nation of Beulah. The most stressful time the earth will see, when God's wrath is poured out, and Satan's wrath woe to the inhabiters of the earth is not meant for a nation of Christians.

Do you really want to be here on earth, and be required to worship a Jew beast-king, order to do so by a Jew false prophet, take the beast's number, name, or mark to be able to buy or sell....

Or be in heaven where treasures of Christians are, and mansions prepared by Jesus, and in a everlasting eternal glorified body - while those two Jews who sold out to Satan are wreaking hell on earth ?

And then return with Jesus, and with the mighty angels of Heaven, as part of His army, to put an end to great tribulation, and Satan's kingdom of Babylon the Great - forever ? And rescue the Jewish masses who turned to Jesus. And bring the Kingdom of God to rule over the whole earth and the nations thereof ?

I think you should rethink your no rapture/resurrection to heaven, and aspire otherwise.

The Jewish (Christians) end times commentators I have heard, all say the Antichrist will be a non-Jew. Because the thought of one of their own, is too much to bear, imo. btw, my post is not intended to be antisemitic. But since you harp on the downfall of the Jews, I think it should be put into perspective. There will be the two Jews who will sell out to Satan, but there will be en-masse Jews who will turn to Jesus at the same time, such that all Israel will be saved.

 

[keras]

I think you should rethink your no rapture/resurrection to heaven, and aspire otherwise.

I know that you should rethink your beliefs and aspire to be among Gods people as we all live in peace and prosperity in all of the holy Land.
Sadly, it seems you are incapable of changing your beliefs and so the end time events will surprise and shock all who grip onto false theories and fables.
Failure to read and understand Prophesies like Jeremiah 10:18, just leaves people in the dark.
Judah will be thrown out of the holy Land; Jeremiah 12:14, Matthew 8:12 and the new owners will be the Christian peoples, Romans 9:24-26

But since you harp on the downfall of the Jews

I point out what the Bible Prophets say about the fate of Judah; their virtual demise and that only a remnant will survive. Romans 9:27
The idea of a general Jewish redemption is never stated in the Bible and is just part of the false and incredible fable of the Church being taken to live in heaven.
Believe this: We Christians have an amazing future, as Gods faithful people, under His protection and mightily Blessed as we live in the whole area that God Gave to Abraham [and his descendants - by faith], so long ago. Genesis 15:18 Plenty of Prophesy describes this wonderful time.
.

 

[Timtofly]

Yes, it is. Tell me who on this forum believes that the church replaced the nation of Israel. Just name one person.


I don't think anyone thinks that. That statement makes no sense whatsoever. I think you are unable to understand what others believe. That is the problem. You misrepresent what others believe repeatedly.


No one believes that "Gentiles are just natural Israelites". That's utter nonsense. Who are these people who supposedly believe these things?

I'm not going to waste any more time reading the rest of your post since it's almost certainly filled with more nonsense that you have made up in your own mind about what others supposedly believe (but don't).

You did.

You said a Jew was one inward, circumcision of the heart. That is the church. According to you the church replaced the outward circumcision of being a physical Jew. Is there a seperate group of Jews with outward circumcision, from the one's with inward circumcision? Besides circumcision hardly makes one a Jew. Being born to a descendant of Judah on one's mother's side tends to be the criteria of being a Jew. Circumcision is an act of obedience a Jew does to relate to the command given by God.

All Paul was saying was the outward act was meaningless without an inward change. He was not saying one or the other makes one a Jew. The act of obedience was describing a faithful person obedient to God.

You must have missed all those posts assuming Ephraim makes up all the Gentiles who are now "Christians". Jews are naturally born descendants of Judah an Israelite. Ephraim was also an Israelite from Joseph. All Jews are Israelites. Not all Israelites are Jews. Jacob had 11 other sons.

 

[Timtofly]

In verse 8 he said "In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring."

Paul qualified that by making the difference between whom God chooses and who man chooses. God chose Isaac over Abraham's choice, Ishmael. God chose Jacob over Isaac's choice Esau.

God promised a lineage that was in National physical Israel. Then God suspended National Israel until the Second Coming. It is God's work and choice, not man's.

 

[keras]

God promised a lineage that was in National physical Israel.

That was Jesus, He is the true Israel of God, the Chief Overcomer for God. We Christians who overcome Satan, are also Israelites, as seen in each of the seven Chruch's of Revelation.

People must not point to ethnicity as being of any value. Ephesians 2:11-18 plainly says that to do so, is false teaching.

 

[Timtofly]

That was Jesus, He is the true Israel of God, the Chief Overcomer for God. We Christians who overcome Satan, are also Israelites, as seen in each of the seven Chruch's of Revelation.

People must not point to ethnicity as being of any value. Ephesians 2:11-18 plainly says that to do so, is false teaching.

I never placed emphasis on ethnicity. Those who claim 2 Israels do that.

Being an overcomer was their ethnicity, until they were cut off.

Are you an overcomer by your own merit, or the merit of the Holy Spirit?

 

[keras]

Being an overcomer was their ethnicity, until they were cut off.

what nonsense! The Jews have overcome nothing, except their enemies by their own strength.
And questioning another members faith is unacceptable.

The House of Judah, the Jewish peoples are Prophesied to be destroyed for their sins. Jeremiah 12:14, Isaiah 22:14

 

[friend of]

Keras and Douggg going at it like usual.

 

[keras]

Keras and Douggg going at it like usual.

And 'friend of', doesn't read posts properly.
Dougg has gone quiet for a while, He does that after I have proved him wrong and shown up his errors.

Timtofly promotes a general Jewish redemption and end time conversion to Christianity, despite such a thing never being Prophesied.

 

[friend of]

And 'friend of', doesn't read posts properly.
Dougg has gone quiet for a while, He does that after I have proved him wrong and shown up his errors.

No need to be irritable.

 

[Douggg]

keras, I checked with a Jewish (Judaism) Rabbi concerning the limitation on travel on the sabbath. It is about 1 kilometer.

So, at the time when the abomination of desolation is standing in the holy place of the temple mount, beginning the great tribulation, Jesus's warning for them in Judea to flee to the mountains, and pray that it doesn't take place on the sabbath in Matthew 24:20 - proves your scenario of a replacement nation full of Christians, from that of the current nation of Israel predominantly Jews, as wrong.

There is not going to be a solar flare event wiping out the current nation of Israel, to be replaced by a Christian nation which you are calling Beulah.

-------------------------------------

From the Rabbi.....

"Whatever city or town you are living in, if you draw a square around it so that the square touches the extremities of the city or town, this are is called the "techum Shabbat" and one may not go more than 2000 Amot [cubits], around 1 kilometre, in any direction outside the techum."

 

[keras]

It is the Lord who is irritated by the foolishness of mankind:

Jeremiah 12:14-16 These are the Words of the Lord: I am against all those evil neighbours who have encroached onto the Land that My Israelite people will inherit. Take note; I will pluck them out from where they are now and also I will pluck out the House of Judah as well. After I have removed them, I will Return and have compassion on them, bringing them back to their heritage, if they will diligently learn the Way of My people, to only swear by My Name: the Living God. But if they refuse, then I will completely remove and destroy them.

This Bible passage is extremely informative, it gives the Lord’s plans for three groups of people.

1/ The evil neighbours; The Islamic nations and entities surrounding Israel. Soon to be cleared out of the entire Middle East region by the terrible Day of the Lord’s wrath by fire from the sun. Psalms 83:1-18, Isaiah 30:25-30, Amos 1:1-11, 2:1-5

2/ The House of Judah, the Jewish people, currently inhabiting a part of the holy Land. The same fate as the neighbours, but a remnant will be saved. Isaiah 6:11-13, Zechariah 13:8-9, Romans 9:27

3/ My people; the true Israelites of God, every Christian believer; individuals from every tribe, race, nation and language. Followers of the right Way. Revelation 5:9-10, 1 Peter 2:9-10

The story described here, is clear and concise: The Lord is about to solve all the Middle East problems, to a similar degree as how He reset civilization in Noah’s time. All the holy land will be depopulated, Zephaniah 14-18, Hosea 4:3, Jeremiah 10:18, excepting a small remnant of Messianic Jews who will shelter in bunkers in Jerusalem. Isaiah 29:1-4, Romans 9:27

This will allow the gathering and settling of His righteous Christian people into their heritage where they will, at last be the people He always wanted there; a people who will be His witnesses and display His light to the nations. Isaiah 43:10, Isaiah 49:8

 

[keras]

Hosea 12:6 Turn back, with God’s help; maintain loyalty and justice, wait constantly for your God.

Hosea 10:12 Sow justice and reap loyalty, break up your fallow ground. It is time to seek the Lord, until He comes and rains justice on you.

Hosea 12:9 I have been the Lord your God since your days in Egypt. I shall make you live in tents again, as in the days of the Tent of Meeting.

Hosea 11:9 How can I hand you over, Ephraim? How can I surrender you, Israel?
How can I make you like a vanished people? A change of heart moves Me, tenderness kindles within Me.

Hosea 14:1=9 Return, Israel to the Lord your God, your sins have been your downfall.
Confess to the Lord, ask His forgiveness. We will offer to You the fruit of our labour.
Other nations cannot save us, we will never again rely on what our hand has made. For in You the fatherless find mercy.

I will heal My peoples apostasy and will love them freely, for My anger has turned away them.
I will be like the dew to Israel, that they may flower and grow in splendour like an olive or cedar tree.

Israel will again live in My shadow, they will flourish and blossom like a fruitful vine.

What further dealings has Ephraim with idols? I declare and affirm that I am the tree that shelters you, Your prosperity comes from Me.

Let the wise consider these things – let the discerning understand them
The ways of the Lord are straight and the righteous walk in them, but the rebellious will stumble.

This Prophecy is for the House of Israel, the 10 Northern tribes, led by Ephraim; NOT the House of Judah, the 2 tribes of Judah and Benjamin.
Every person alive today has some of Abrahams genes and the way to identify them is whether they are Christians.

True Israel are now the Christian peoples and the Jewish State of Israel, faces Judgment and punishment in the soon to happen terrible Day of the Lord’s fiery wrath.

 

[Douggg]

keras, in Matthew 24:20, Jesus is speaking to the people who will be making up Israel at the time the abomination of desolation is setup.

They are Jews not Christians, who are restricted not to travel on the sabbath.

 

[friend of]

There is not going to be a solar flare event wiping out the current nation of Israel, to be replaced by a Christian nation which you are calling Beulah

Yeah like where is that in the bible?

 

[Timtofly]

what nonsense! The Jews have overcome nothing, except their enemies by their own strength.
And questioning another members faith is unacceptable.

The House of Judah, the Jewish peoples are Prophesied to be destroyed for their sins. Jeremiah 12:14, Isaiah 22:14

Should they have dropped the name Israel after the first generation? You are the one claiming that is what Israel means.