LDS LDS---YIKES!

[BigDaddy4]

I am glad to hear you have no problem with Moses. I really don't want to lead you away from God, so forget I even said that.

You really think you could lead me away from God? You overestimate yourself.

 

[He is the way]

You really think you could lead me away from God? You overestimate yourself.

I know what kind of people that are trying to lead others astray:

(New Testament | Matthew 5:17 - 19)

17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[BigDaddy4]

I know what kind of people that are trying to lead others astray:

(New Testament | Matthew 5:17 - 19)

17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Actually, these are the ones:

Matthew 24:4-11, 23-26
4Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9“Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.


23At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25See, I have told you ahead of time.

26“So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.

JS and the lds religion clearly fit these warnings.

 

[He is the way]

Actually, these are the ones:

Matthew 24:4-11, 23-26
4Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9“Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.


23At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25See, I have told you ahead of time.

26“So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.

JS and the lds religion clearly fit these warnings.

Well that is your opinion, however I believe in Christ and His words:

(New Testament | John 10:16)

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Well that is your opinion, however I believe in Christ and His words:

(New Testament | John 10:16)

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

The Gentiles are the "other sheep". Not just the lds. That would be a[nother] mis-application of Scripture by you and your church.

 

[dzheremi]

The Gentiles are the "other sheep". Not the lds. That would be a[nother] mis-application of Scripture by you and your church.

Is it accurate to say that the LDS would be included in the Gentiles, even if they think themselves not? I mean, I don't know how many converts to Mormonism there are from Judaism (I would suspect not many), but only those would be non-Gentiles...

I dunno. It seems like a small point, but I think it's good to say that Jesus came even for those who choose to follow something/someone else, recalling the parable of the lost sheep and similar lessons.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Is it accurate to say that the LDS would be included in the Gentiles, even if they think themselves not? I mean, I don't know how many converts to Mormonism there are from Judaism (I would suspect not many), but only those would be non-Gentiles...

I dunno. It seems like a small point, but I think it's good to say that Jesus came even for those who choose to follow something/someone else, recalling the parable of the lost sheep and similar lessons.

Mormons, Muslims, Iglesia Ni Cristo people, and all such restorationists: Christ came for you, too, even if you disbelieve His words concerning His Church and His shepherding of it, in favor of misunderstandings and misapplications of the scriptures, or the invention of new ones that better fit your view (the BOM, the Qur'an, etc.)

My post may not have been clear. I edited it to include "just". It is my understanding that the lds use "the other sheep" passage to mean the lds church only. Not the Gentiles (i.e., non-Jews) as a whole. Which, I believe, is why He Is The Way quoted it. It fits their "2 churches" theology - one is either in theirs or they are in the devil's church.

 

[He is the way]

The Gentiles are the "other sheep". Not just the lds. That would be a[nother] mis-application of Scripture by you and your church.

Really where does it say that Jesus Christ spoke to the Gentiles?

 

[dzheremi]

My post may not have been clear. I edited it to include "just". It is my understanding that the lds use "the other sheep" passage to mean the lds church only. Not the Gentiles (i.e., non-Jews) as a whole. Which, I believe, is why He Is The Way quoted it. It fits their "2 churches" theology - one is either in theirs or they are in the devil's church.

Ah, I see. So it's not gentile/non-gentile, but LDS/everyone else. That seems a bit convenient, but okay. Surely I believe in my Church, as everyone does in their own or else they'd be somewhere else. (The difference being that we do not say that everyone else is in the "Church of the Devil".)

And I totally forgot that I had opened that post to edit it (trying to take advice given in a different thread elsewhere about not being needlessly confrontational) and then went to to laundry...hahaha...came back, saw the window still open, thought "huh, I guess I forgot to press it", not knowing that there was a reply from 9 minutes ago already. Oops.

Oh well!

 

[He is the way]

Is it accurate to say that the LDS would be included in the Gentiles, even if they think themselves not? I mean, I don't know how many converts to Mormonism there are from Judaism (I would suspect not many), but only those would be non-Gentiles...

I dunno. It seems like a small point, but I think it's good to say that Jesus came even for those who choose to follow something/someone else, recalling the parable of the lost sheep and similar lessons.

Yes, Jesus came for all of God's children. The other sheep, in this case, were not the Gentiles, but the people who were in the Americas.

 

[twin.spin]

You do not understand our words concerning the commandments.

Because of Jesus and his atoning sacrifice, our inability to keep the commandments 100% is taken care of by Jesus's grace. However, we do what we can to live the kind of life that Jesus lived, again knowing that he will take care of us by his mercy and grace.

So we believe and have had the baptism of water and the Holy Spirit, and as a new person we try to live a good Christian life, having trust in Jesus that he was save us from our sins and give us eternal life.​

Actually I do understand that Mormonism takes Biblical terms and give unique definitions to such terms\ phrases that distorts the correct Biblical Christian understanding. This is sometimes aka "Mormonese".

Honestly you need to see a new perspective of Biblical terminology through your eyes and then the correct Biblical understanding will follow .

​

I fail to see a tragic ending in outer darkness, that will house those that reject Jesus and his commandments and actively appose him and deny his atoning sacrifice. None of which do members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

That is unfortunate that you're unable to see.

 

[dzheremi]

Yes, Jesus came for all of God's children. The other sheep, in this case, were not the Gentiles, but the people who were in the Americas.

No.

That's a hard no. I don't really even feel like anything needs to be added. This is your belief, but it is intimately tied to the story in the Book of Mormon, which no Christian communion or denomination accepts, so we reject it and what you say substantiates it. Since you have no other evidence of any kind, it is very easy to say no and leave it there.

 

[He is the way]

No.

That's a hard no. I don't really even feel like anything needs to be added. This is your belief, but it is intimately tied to the story in the Book of Mormon, which no Christian communion or denomination accepts, so we reject it and what you say substantiates it. Since you have no other evidence of any kind, it is very easy to say no and leave it there.

Yes I have more evidence:

(Old Testament | Ezekiel 37:16 - 23)

16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 ¶ And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20 ¶ And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

(Old Testament | Isaiah 29:11 - 14)

11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
13 ¶ Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Really where does it say that Jesus Christ spoke to the Gentiles?

See Paul's conversion in Acts 9 and Peter's dream in Acts 10.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Yes I have more evidence:

That's not evidence. Just more mormon mis-application of scripture.

 

[He is the way]

See Paul's conversion in Acts 9 and Peter's dream in Acts 10.

Neither of which did Jesus speak to a Gentile.

 

[He is the way]

That's not evidence. Just more mormon mis-application of scripture.

I didn't really think you would agree.

 

[dzheremi]

Yes I have more evidence:

(Old Testament | Ezekiel 37:16 - 23)

16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 ¶ And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20 ¶ And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

(Old Testament | Isaiah 29:11 - 14)

11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
13 ¶ Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.

How do you see this as pointing to the Native Americans, though? See, I don't see how you make that connection absent the BOM, so it seems less like evidence and more like reading the Bible through the lens of the BOM, which introduces an entire story and several peoples who clearly aren't there.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Neither of which did Jesus speak to a Gentile.

Your Pharasitic legalism probably won't let you understand. Paul preached to the Gentiles through the guidance and power of the Holy Spirit, who is the same as Jesus: God. God's voice spoken through an apostle to the Gentiles. Same with Peter, God's voice in his dream to preach to the Gentiles.

In John 10, Jesus is not literally a shepherd and we are not literally sheep. Yet we are his and hear and follow his voice, like a sheep follows their shepherd. It's a figure of speech. Jesus doesn't need to appear to each Gentile personally for that Gentile to hear his voice. In fact, the Bible warns us of such encounters until his 2nd coming. JS never took that advice and has led you astray.

 

[He is the way]

Your Pharasitic legalism probably won't let you understand. Paul preached to the Gentiles through the guidance and power of the Holy Spirit, who is the same as Jesus: God. God's voice spoken through an apostle to the Gentiles. Same with Peter, God's voice in his dream to preach to the Gentiles.

In John 10, Jesus is not literally a shepherd and we are not literally sheep. Yet we are his and hear and follow his voice, like a sheep follows their shepherd. It's a figure of speech. Jesus doesn't need to appear to each Gentile personally for that Gentile to hear his voice. In fact, the Bible warns us of such encounters until his 2nd coming. JS never took that advice and has led you astray.

Jesus said they would hear His voice and I do take that literally.