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Featured LDS LDS---YIKES!

Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by Phoebe Ann, Jul 28, 2019.

  1. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    It is better to rely on God than science. Science can be wrong, but God never is.
     
  2. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    It would not matter if the scientific method and standard for publishing was observed to the highest levels of professionalism by non-Mormons, you would still not believe. That is my point.
     
  3. BigDaddy4

    BigDaddy4 Movin' on...

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    Did you not read your own source that I quoted? Here it is again.
    Scholarship is not valued as highly as your testimony. I even bolded it for you. When you listen to false spirits and false prophets, your testimony is invalid. All the lds apologetics can come up with are "could be's", "possibly's", "may have's", and other non-factual, indefinite statements. That's not evidence!
     
  4. BigDaddy4

    BigDaddy4 Movin' on...

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    Science confirms what God has done and/or created. Can science confirm that God put millions of people on the North American continent to play out the fiction that is the BOM?
     
  5. BigDaddy4

    BigDaddy4 Movin' on...

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    Try us and find out! What do you have to lose?

    You make statements like yours because you know you can't provide anything credible to validate the BOM fictional story.
     
  6. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    Yes the truth of all things are given to us through the Holy Ghost. However, there is factual verifiable evidence that Joseph Smith is not the actual author of the Book of Mormon. Did you read the whole article?
     
  7. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    Science can confirm that there were millions of people on the NA continent, the BOM confirms that some of them were here because God brought them here. What evidence would you accept that God brought them here?

    You know that at the time of JS, the scientists believed that there were very few native Americans here in the Americas. That they had come from across the Bering Straight and slowly evolved into what we saw of the Indian nations in 1830. Thousands, maybe a few hundred thousand at the most. Living a rather lowly life, living in tents, eating off the land, no industry, no writings, broken language, no overall leadership, no belief in God etc., etc., etc.

    So when JS says there were millions of American Indians that were a high civilization with governments and high industries, and cement building all over the land, and a high level of weapons of war, high level of writing, high level of artifice, a belief in God the true Spirit, etc., etc., etc. he was laughed to a scorn and thought to be a nut.

    Well, as it turns out, he was right on all counts, and the so called expert scientists were all wrong on all points. So much for Ph.D means anything. Right?

    The population figure of indigenous peoples of the Americas before the 1492 Spanish voyage of Christopher Columbus has proven difficult to establish. Scholars rely on archaeological data and written records from European settlers. Most scholars writing at the end of the 19th century estimated that the pre-Columbian population was as low as 10 million; by the end of the 20th century most scholars gravitated to a middle estimate of around 50 million, with some historians arguing for an estimate of 100 million or more.[1]

    Population history of indigenous peoples of the Americas - Wikipedia
     
  8. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    I already have, many times to you.

    See my post 247 for 1 on populations confirmed JS with non-Mormon Ph.D finality.
     
  9. BigDaddy4

    BigDaddy4 Movin' on...

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    Then tell your holy ghost to put up or shut up and provide some factual evidence, some truth, as to the BOM claims. Otherwise, you've got nothing.
    Please, provide this verifiable evidence.
    No, there's only so much lds gibberish I can take in at a time. I stopped when it was dismissive of the need for actual evidence. If there is something you'd like to direct my attention to, please point it out.
     
  10. BigDaddy4

    BigDaddy4 Movin' on...

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    Does not address my post in any way. This is you pointing out rabbit holes to distract from directly answering a question.
     
  11. BigDaddy4

    BigDaddy4 Movin' on...

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    You must have selective reading issues. None of what you posted is related to my post because
     
  12. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    If you would have read it you would have seen the verifiable evidence.
     
  13. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    The title page of the Book of Mormon declares that it was to come forth “by the gift and power of God.” Recent evidence and scholarship indicates that this is exactly what would have had to happen. In addition, the evidence indicates that the translation and dictation of the book were accomplished in roughly 63 working days—a torrid pace that, with neither rewrites nor corrections, produced nearly 8.5 pages (of our current English edition) daily.

    Further, there is no evidence at all that Joseph Smith did any scholarly research, or even that he read very much, before the Book of Mormon appeared. In fact, he may not even have owned a Bible at the time of translation. Joseph Smith had spent the bulk of his time as a youth cutting trees, burning brush, clearing rocks, and plowing. He had received at most a few months of formal schooling. His mother later recalled that, even into his late teens, “he seemed much less inclined to the perusal of books than any of the rest of our children.”

    His wife Emma reports that, in the late 1820s, Joseph “could neither write nor dictate a coherent and well worded letter, let alone dictate a book like the Book of Mormon. … The larger part of this labor [of translation] was done [in] my presence and where I could see and know what was being done. … During no part of it did Joseph Smith have any [manuscripts] or book of any kind from which to read or dictate except the metalic [sic] plates which I knew he had.” “If,” she said, “he had had anything of the kind he could not have concealed it from me.”

    And, she added, writing to her son: “I am satisfied that no man could have dictated the writing of the manuscripts unless he was inspired; for, when acting as his scribe, your father would dictate to me hour after hour; and when returning after meals, or after interruptions, he would at once begin where he had left off, without either seeing the manuscript or having any portion of it read to him. This was a usual thing for him to do. It would have been improbable that a learned man could do this; and, for one so ignorant and unlearned as he was, it was simply impossible.”

    In recent years, rigorous statistical analysis strongly indicates that neither Joseph Smith nor any of his known associates composed the English text of the Book of Mormon. In fact, research suggests that the book was written by numerous distinct authors.

    And research shows that the book does not seem to fit the culture of early 19th-century America. There is little of the military romanticism of Joseph Smith’s America. Instead, we see grimly realistic portrayals of war’s devastation and suffering. And in the story of the Gadianton robbers we have a detailed, realistic portrayal of a prolonged guerrilla struggle—lacking any trace of fife and drum, uniforms, or parades—published well over a century before the guerrilla theorists of the 20th century put pens to paper.

    From: https://bookofmormonfacts.com/book-of-mormon-mounting-evidence/
     
  14. BigDaddy4

    BigDaddy4 Movin' on...

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    Verifiable evidence as provided by mormon sources? Puh-lease, stop the parroting. Verifiable and credible evidence does not mean just quoting your church's unverified, non-credible sources.
     
  15. BigDaddy4

    BigDaddy4 Movin' on...

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    You just don't get it do you? Do you realize this source is quoting a different source? So you have an original source problem to start off with.

    Did you even read this gibberish? It says things like "recent evidence and scholarship indicates" and "research suggests", yet provides no sources of where this evidence, scholarship, or research supposedly came from.

    One of my favorites - "rigorous statistical analysis". Where is this analysis? Who conducted it?

    It's things like this that diminish the credibility of any of your or the lds church's claims.
     
  16. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    If you do not believe this evidence, prove it wrong.
     
  17. BigDaddy4

    BigDaddy4 Movin' on...

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    Still waiting for you to provide the evidence. Mormon articles quoting mormon sources does not make evidence. Dismissed as hearsay!
     
  18. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    Joseph Smith: The World’s Greatest Guesser (A Bayesian Statistical Analysis of Positive and Negative Correspondences between the Book of Mormon and The Maya)
     
  19. BigDaddy4

    BigDaddy4 Movin' on...

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    LOL. Imagine that, the "authors" of this "analysis" are lds! Is this the "research" or "scholarship" you are trying to use as credible? When you have something from an independent, non-lds resource, let me know. Otherwise, don't bother.
     
  20. Ironhold

    Ironhold Member

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    I think we've explained this one before.

    For non-members, producing something that can be seen as defending the church is a significant risk, both because of anti-Mormon sentiment and because this same sentiment has forced pro-Mormon materials into the "fringes".

    Hence why most of the material you'll see is from pro-Mormon sources as they don't have the same consequences to face.
     
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