LDS LDS---YIKES!

[dzheremi]

However, you are assuming that He does not have a person as the Bible states.

What?

 

[Peter1000]

Sorry, a closer look says no they did not. We've been over this a thousand times it seems like.

So when Jacob wrestled with God, he did not see him?

So when Abraham saw God and fed him, this did not happen really?

 

[Peter1000]

What you believe hardly matters to anyone outside of Mormonism. It is what the bible teaches that matters and it does not teach the Father ever died and was resurrected nor that He has a body of flesh and bones.

When Abraham saw God and fed him, what kind of a body did God eat the food with?

 

[mmksparbud]

However, you are assuming that He does not have a person as the Bible states.

Jesus stated God is spirit. I'll take His word for it.

 

[mmksparbud]

So when Jacob wrestled with God, he did not see him?

So when Abraham saw God and fed him, this did not happen really?

We've been through the wrestling with Jacob already---it was before dawn---it was dark. Each time God is said to have been seen, He was always veiled somehow. Smoke, so forth. And from all signs, that was Jesus throughout the OT.

 

[mmksparbud]

When Abraham saw God and fed him, what kind of a body did God eat the food with?

It says He did eat. He "appeared" as men which does not translate to He actually was human, angels appear as human a lot, they are not. I do not know that we can then assume that they truly ate or not (or it just appeared they ate) and if they did, that it means in any way, they were actually human because they did so. So did the angels that Lot took in and made them a feast. That still does not make them human. They remained angels.

Gen_18:8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.
Gen_19:3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.

 

[BigDaddy4]

So when Jacob wrestled with God, he did not see him?

So when Abraham saw God and fed him, this did not happen really?

Is God a non-consuming fire that appeared to Moses in the burning bush? No. You keep reading into things that aren't there and you lose sight of the truth. The truth is, God is an invisible spirit (John 4:24, 1 Tim 1:17) and can manifest himself in any shape or form He wants. That's his prerogative. Just because he takes a certain form, does not mean that he actually is that form.

 

[He is the way]

What?

The scripture states that Jesus is in the express image of God the Father's person therefore He is a person not a spirit.:

(New Testament | Hebrews 1:3)

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

 

[He is the way]

Jesus stated God is spirit. I'll take His word for it.

(New Testament:John 4:24)

JST John 4:24 For unto such hath God promised his Spirit. And they who worship him, must worship in spirit and in truth.

You probably do not believe in the JST but we do have a lot of things in common:

 

[Peter1000]

We've been through the wrestling with Jacob already---it was before dawn---it was dark. Each time God is said to have been seen, He was always veiled somehow. Smoke, so forth. And from all signs, that was Jesus throughout the OT.

I know we have gone over this before it is just that your argument that Jacob did not see God because it was dark is ludicrous. In your words, 'pure hogwash'. Besides it was at the break of day, and at the break of day, it is light enough to see someone. So 'hogwash'.

But your final statement was interesting, "from all signs, that was Jesus throughout the OT.
1) You cannot go back and forth between God and Jesus, remember, to you they are 2 in the same being.
2) This wrestle was before the incarnation, so Jesus was only a spirit. How then could Jacob be wrestling with a 'spirit'?
3) This just proves 2 things. Jacob saw God, and God had a body of flesh and bone so he could wrestle with Jacob.

When Abraham was visited by God, that visit proved 2 things also:
1) Abraham saw God.
2) God ate lunch with Abraham. So God must have had a body of flesh and bone in order to eat and drink.
Another interesting thing about God in this episode is that later on this same God, standing on the earth, called down from heaven thunderbolts, and the God in heaven heard him and released them on Sodom and Gomorrah. Proving they are not one in the same being, but are 2 beings separate from each other, like JS said.

 

[mmksparbud]

I know we have gone over this before it is just that your argument that Jacob did not see God because it was dark is ludicrous. In your words, 'pure hogwash'. Besides it was at the break of day, and at the break of day, it is light enough to see someone. So 'hogwash'.

But your final statement was interesting, "from all signs, that was Jesus throughout the OT.
1) You cannot go back and forth between God and Jesus, remember, to you they are 2 in the same being.
2) This wrestle was before the incarnation, so Jesus was only a spirit. How then could Jacob be wrestling with a 'spirit'?
3) This just proves 2 things. Jacob saw God, and God had a body of flesh and bone so he could wrestle with Jacob.

When Abraham was visited by God, that visit proved 2 things also:
1) Abraham saw God.
2) God ate lunch with Abraham. So God must have had a body of flesh and bone in order to eat and drink.
Another interesting thing about God in this episode is that later on this same God, standing on the earth, called down from heaven thunderbolts, and the God in heaven heard him and released them on Sodom and Gomorrah. Proving they are not one in the same being, but are 2 beings separate from each other, like JS said.

It was sometime before the breaking of the day that the fight ended.

Gen 32:26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
Gen 32:31 And as he passed over Penuel the sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh.

God was veiled, not just by darkness, for when God is not veiled, His brightness is beyond what we can endure. Moses had to be veled before seeing the children of Israel just from being in His presence. No man can see God unveiled and live.

Sorry, but I most certainly can go between God and Jesus before the incarnation for they were one---one in substance, not saying they were siemese twins. After the incarnation Jesus took on human flesh in addition to His divinity.

 

[Peter1000]

It was sometime before the breaking of the day that the fight ended.

Gen 32:26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
Gen 32:31 And as he passed over Penuel the sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh.

God was veiled, not just by darkness, for when God is not veiled, His brightness is beyond what we can endure. Moses had to be veled before seeing the children of Israel just from being in His presence. No man can see God unveiled and live.

Sorry, but I most certainly can go between God and Jesus before the incarnation for they were one---one in substance, not saying they were siemese twins. After the incarnation Jesus took on human flesh in addition to His divinity.

Well God being veiled, not just by darkness makes more sense. Now I would like to know what that veil was, since the scripture does not mention anything about it.

Same for Abraham, no veil mentioned. Straight face to face contact with Abraham.

 

[Ironhold]

...And someone just ran into Godwin's Law...



I do believe this officially means the thread's gone about as far as it can go.

 

[tampasteve]

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