LDS LDS---YIKES!

[He is the way]

LOL. Imagine that, the "authors" of this "analysis" are lds! Is this the "research" or "scholarship" you are trying to use as credible? When you have something from an independent, non-lds resource, let me know. Otherwise, don't bother.

If I wasn't a member of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints and had hard evidence that it was true, I would join. Therefore it would be unlikely that the evidence would come from a non-member.

 

[BigDaddy4]

I think we've explained this one before.

For non-members, producing something that can be seen as defending the church is a significant risk, both because of anti-Mormon sentiment and because this same sentiment has forced pro-Mormon materials into the "fringes".

Hence why most of the material you'll see is from pro-Mormon sources as they don't have the same consequences to face.

Lame excuse. Credible evidence can withstand even the toughest scrutiny, when it's based on facts. Just face, you have none.

 

[BigDaddy4]

If I wasn't a member of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints and had hard evidence that it was true, I would join. Therefore it would be unlikely that the evidence would come from a non-member.

Well, you are a member and don't have hard evidence, so why are you staying?

 

[He is the way]

Well, you are a member and don't have hard evidence, so why are you staying?

Yes I do have hard evidence in a book and a diary.

 

[Peter1000]

Does not address my post in any way. This is you pointing out rabbit holes to distract from directly answering a question.

This is your standard response to any evidence presented to you. This evidence happens to be non-Mormon scholarly evidence on population numbers.

Remember when the BOM came out, the "scholars" thought there were a small number of native Americans, and they were right, at the time. However, JS talked in the BOM of millions of populated lands, and he was mocked and laughed at for such a stupid position.

The archaeological record from non-Mormons say JS was right. It is an evidence that JS is right from non-Mormon scientists. That is exactly what you were asking for. What more can I give you than non-Mormon scientific evidence?

I can give you concrete non-Mormon archaeological evidence of 10 things that JS said that existed in the Americas that science laughed at but now say, "Oops, JS was right". I know that you will reject all of them as pointing out rabbit holes to distract from directly answering a question.

Your mode of operation is to come back from each answer with "that is just pointing out rabbit holes to distract from directly answering my question. So shock me and answer my evidence about population. Science in 1830 said your stupid JS for saying millions of people were here in the Americas, ever. The non-Mormon scienctific evidence now says there were millions, up to 100,000,000.

Now, it is another question as to how they got here? JS said another absolutely insane statement in the BOM that there was a group that came here from Jerusalem by ship. In 1830 the 'scientists' said 'all' Indians came over the Bering Straight, and for someone to think that anybody came by a trans Atlantic crossing by ship was just a stupid wanabe scientist.

Now in 2019, the science proves that there was trans Atlantic crossings by ship. How bout that. And even non-Mormon scientists now agree with JS. Another evidence of the BOM. There are a lot more.

Not rabbit holes, just the simple truth, as evidenced by non-Mormon scientists, which is exactly what you were looking for.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Yes I do have hard evidence in a book and a diary.

You have hard evidence that the people and events of the BOM actually happened? I seriously doubt that. You probably have someone's burning bosom testimony and are gullible enough to believe it's true.

 

[He is the way]

You have hard evidence that the people and events of the BOM actually happened? I seriously doubt that. You probably have someone's burning bosom testimony and are gullible enough to believe it's true.

I have hard proof that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. That is all that I need.

 

[BigDaddy4]

This is your standard response to any evidence presented to you. This evidence happens to be non-Mormon scholarly evidence on population numbers.

Not rabbit holes, just the simple truth, as evidenced by non-Mormon scientists, which is exactly what you were looking for.

Except it was not exactly what I was looking for. Not even close. I don't care about the evidence of existence for millions of Native Americans. I asked for evidence that the people and events of the BOM actually existed. Millions of people lived and existed for hundreds of years and then conveniently killed everyone off and entire battlefields, infrastructure, and remains vanished without a trace? Now that's a fairy tale!

Your church can't even decide on the geographical location - either upstate New York area or Central America were the front runners.

Your fairy tale will be much more believable when you can provide evidence that is actually worthwhile.

 

[Peter1000]

LOL. Imagine that, the "authors" of this "analysis" are lds! Is this the "research" or "scholarship" you are trying to use as credible? When you have something from an independent, non-lds resource, let me know. Otherwise, don't bother.

The author of the research was LDS, but the book that he was finding interesting parallels was a non-Mormon, anti BOM author, Dr. Michael Coe. Unwittingly, Coe has offered a nice comparison between the life and culture of the Mayan people and the life and culture of the BOM people.

Since the project proved positive to the BOM as a non-fictional book, I'm sure you will object to anything scientific. But you can thank Mike Cole for that folley.

 

[Peter1000]

Except it was not exactly what I was looking for. Not even close. I don't care about the evidence of existence for millions of Native Americans. I asked for evidence that the people and events of the BOM actually existed. Millions of people lived and existed for hundreds of years and then conveniently killed everyone off and entire battlefields, infrastructure, and remains vanished without a trace? Now that's a fairy tale!

Your church can't even decide on the geographical location - either upstate New York area or Central America were the front runners.

Your fairy tale will be much more believable when you can provide evidence that is actually worthwhile.

There is no evidence that will satisfy you, so quit asking.

There is no evidence that Moses and the children of Israel were in Egypt and came up out of Egypt. What do you do about that problem?

 

[twin.spin]

There is no evidence that will satisfy you, so quit asking.

There is no evidence that Moses and the children of Israel were in Egypt and came up out of Egypt. What do you do about that problem?

Not that this matters but it's irrelevant since there is circumstantial evidence that Moses and the children of Israel were in Egypt and came up out of Egypt.

What is relevant however is that every Mormon best be prepared for a tragic ending due that very same circumstantial evidence ... the Commandments.

Subsequently then the tragic ending is outer darkness for failing to keep every commandment 100% perfectly since you're into ladder climbing via Jesus the examplier.

 

[He is the way]

Not that this matters but it's irrelevant since there is circumstantial evidence that Moses and the children of Israel were in Egypt and came up out of Egypt.

What is relevant however is that every Mormon best be prepared for a tragic ending due that very same circumstantial evidence ... the Commandments.

Subsequently then the tragic ending is outer darkness for failing to keep every commandment 100% perfectly since you're into ladder climbing via Jesus the examplier.

When Jesus said:
(New Testament | John 14:15)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.

He was not just speaking to members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints, this scripture applies to everyone. There is no reason for anyone to believe it does not apply to them.

 

[twin.spin]

When Jesus said:
(New Testament | John 14:15)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.

He was not just speaking to members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints, this scripture applies to everyone. There is no reason for anyone to believe it does not apply to them.

Which is why every Mormon best be ready for a tragic ending … outer darkness, due to the Commands requirement for the prove oneself-worthy types (i.e. the Mormon ladder climber) that they then "be perfect".

 

[He is the way]

Which is why every Mormon best be ready for a tragic ending … outer darkness, due to the Commands requirement for the prove oneself-worthy types (i.e. the Mormon ladder climber) that they then "be perfect".

Yes it does apply to members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. And as I said everyone else also.

 

[BigDaddy4]

The author of the research was LDS, but the book that he was finding interesting parallels was a non-Mormon, anti BOM author, Dr. Michael Coe. Unwittingly, Coe has offered a nice comparison between the life and culture of the Mayan people and the life and culture of the BOM people.

Since the project proved positive to the BOM as a non-fictional book, I'm sure you will object to anything scientific. But you can thank Mike Cole for that folley.

And yet still no evidence the BOM people actually existed. At least there is evidence of Mayan people existing. Parallels are not proof.

 

[BigDaddy4]

There is no evidence that will satisfy you, so quit asking.

There is no evidence that Moses and the children of Israel were in Egypt and came up out of Egypt. What do you do about that problem?

Correction - there is no evidence that you can provide, so I will continue to ask until you are able to provide the requested evidence. Until then, the BOM is just a fictional tale from the mind of a false prophet.

I don't have a problem with Moses. He existed. Egypt existed. The Red Sea existed. The Israelites existed. Your comparison fails.

 

[twin.spin]

Yes it does apply to members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. And as I said everyone else also.

You apparently aren't getting it:

Mormonism teaches an examplier Jesus while stressing obedience to the commandments … that leads only to a tragic result of being condemned to outer darkness because of failure to obey 100%.

Biblical Christianity teaches a substitute Jesus, were God declares Jesus' perfect obedience to the commandments is being credited to us through faith in that alone … that is the saving gospel.

 

[Peter1000]

Not that this matters but it's irrelevant since there is circumstantial evidence that Moses and the children of Israel were in Egypt and came up out of Egypt.

What is relevant however is that every Mormon best be prepared for a tragic ending due that very same circumstantial evidence ... the Commandments.

Subsequently then the tragic ending is outer darkness for failing to keep every commandment 100% perfectly since you're into ladder climbing via Jesus the examplier.

You do not understand our words concerning the commandments.

Because of Jesus and his atoning sacrifice, our inability to keep the commandments 100% is taken care of by Jesus's grace. However, we do what we can to live the kind of life that Jesus lived, again knowing that he will take care of us by his mercy and grace.

So we believe and have had the baptism of water and the Holy Spirit, and as a new person we try to live a good Christian life, having trust in Jesus that he was save us from our sins and give us eternal life.

I fail to see a tragic ending in outer darkness, that will house those that reject Jesus and his commandments and actively appose him and deny his atoning sacrifice. None of which do members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

 

[Peter1000]

Correction - there is no evidence that you can provide, so I will continue to ask until you are able to provide the requested evidence. Until then, the BOM is just a fictional tale from the mind of a false prophet.

I don't have a problem with Moses. He existed. Egypt existed. The Red Sea existed. The Israelites existed. Your comparison fails.

I am glad to hear you have no problem with Moses. I really don't want to lead you away from God, so forget I even said that.

 

[He is the way]

You apparently aren't getting it:

Mormonism teaches an examplier Jesus while stressing obedience to the commandments … that leads only to a tragic result of being condemned to outer darkness because of failure to obey 100%.

Biblical Christianity teaches a substitute Jesus, were God declares Jesus' perfect obedience to the commandments is being credited to us through faith in that alone … that is the saving gospel.

We also believe in the atonement and that through the atonement that all mankind may be saved. But we can not reject obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel. The Bible does not endorse sin even to the least degree. It is sin that separates us from God. Even the act of not helping someone is sin. Consider of what happened to the rich man in the story about Lazarus:

(New Testament | Luke 16:19 - 31)

19 ¶ There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Jesus is our example:

(New Testament | 1 John 2:3 - 6)

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.