Kneeling during the National Anthem

[Oldmantook]

Generally in life, one does not gain respect disrespecting something/someone else. It's usually the opposite way in that one gains respect by rising above one's circumstances; no matter how bad or unfair those circumstances may be. The players have the right to protest but the right to do so, does not make it the right thing to do.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

I have plenty of anecdotal evidence too that racism is something that most people I know have very little tolerance for.
It doesn't mean that racism doesn't exist. Of course it does. Canadians are well aware of it. It is taught in Canadian high school history books. To be on guard is part of workplace training in many workplace.

I can say all the same things about America but Canadians love to criticize Americans while ignoring their own rotten racist problems. When I go to Canada my relatives and other people I talk to there start right up about Trump and how stupid and racist Americans are, meanwhile they have that fool Trudeau, corporatist sycophant that he is, ecological disaster that he is, sold completely out to the big oil and finance industries, and they talk about him like he's great. He's not even good. The only difference between him and Trump is that he's slick and a good PR package, like Obama was and like Reagan was, while Trump is crude and ridiculous in that regard.

That doesn't mean that Americans, or Canadians, need to be accommodating of twits of any color who disrespect their countries, or another countries flags and symbols.

Actually it does, and the actual twits are the ones who don't comprehend that.

I feel exactly the same for the Montreal Canadian ignoramuses who booed the American flag at a hockey game to show their contempt of Bush.
And hockey in Canada is pretty whitewashed. It has nothing to do with Canadien fans being black, because they are not black, by and large.
People doing uncouth things ought to be called out for it by everybody. It is just plain cowardice to give somebody a pass for being uncouth just because he happens to be black and you are white.

Well that's why I'm calling out all the uncouth idolaters who take such offense that a person will not move their bodies in the way they desire them to in honor of an inanimate object that represents an imperfect entity that is not godly. Of course, idolaters hate when their idols are not respected. I worship the True God and I don't have a duty to defend Him - He can defend Himself, He certainly doesn't need me to do it. But by the same token I won't accept idolatry as something I must ever have to do and I don't mind speaking against it.

 

[Anna Scott]

The players are employees of the owners of the NFL teams. My employer doesn't allow me to Stage protests while I'm on work time and most employers don't allow that. That's really the bottom line here what your employer will allow you to do while you're getting paid. I agree that they have the right to do whatever they want during the national anthem and I have the right to criticize them or not watch or attend NFL games.

The players are not disrupting the game. They just choose not to stand during the National Anthem.

We do have individual freedoms, and how much control do we want to give away to employers? See post 119.

Trump: NFL owners should fire players who protest the national anthem puts us on a slippery slope when it comes to our freedom as individuals.

Once it affects the bottom line of a business owner, they get to make the call. That's how democracy and capitalism work

Certainly money is a key factor. In fact, the US Defense Department paid 14 NFL teams $5.4M to honor soldiers.

Until 2009, players stayed in the locker rooms, while the National Anthem was played. See Paid Patriotism Problem.

 

[RDKirk]

This isn't even a matter that should be of issue to the Body of Christ.

Who in the world really thinks Christ has the slightest concern about this?

Why in the world are members of the Body of Christ wasting His time on this?

How in the world does it affect the mission of the Body of Christ to make disciples of all nations?

No one serving as a soldier gets entangled in civilian affairs, but rather tries to please his commanding officer.

 

[Armoured]

Maybe...I mean, that's what you say and how you interpret all of this, but as far as observing the people actually carrying out this activity, I can't tell what they're saying. Most of them weren't doing anything until Trump started talking about them, then they started calling for "unity" or something. So I can't tell if they're just acting out of dislike of Trump, police brutality, "unity", or who-knows-what. You can say what you think it is, but I'm not sure you're speaking on their behalf.

I'm saying what they say it is.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Disrespectful is what the headlines are made of in respects to this very thing

Yes, we all know half the country (amost) claims it is disrespect. I am claiming they are wrong to do so. In fact, if you ask those taking the knee, most if not all will say they did not intend to disrespect our country or our flag . . . . so why is it called disrespect?

There is the matter of your tribal loyalty. You think that because the president and other right wing pundents call it disrespect, you should agree with them.

But those who first led out calling it disrespect . . . what led them to do that? In my opinion, it is a means of dismissing the petition the knee represents. By distracting people from the call to address the very real problem of excessive racism in some police forces . . . so they can continue to ignore the problem.

Have they done anything besides falling on the grass to be made a spectacle of?

Thank you for your confession you have not been paying attention to the very real problem when it was presented in other ways.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Maybe...I mean, that's what you say and how you interpret all of this, but as far as observing the people actually carrying out this activity, I can't tell what they're saying. Most of them weren't doing anything until Trump started talking about them, then they started calling for "unity" or something. So I can't tell if they're just acting out of dislike of Trump, police brutality, "unity", or who-knows-what. You can say what you think it is, but I'm not sure you're speaking on their behalf.

It began as a protest against police brutality--and still is. But has become larger. When Trump spoke out, it unified people against him; it's still a protest against police brutality, but it is also a protest against all racial injustice, a protest against a demagogue trying to use his position to silence opposition. And it has become an opportunity for them to make a visible statement about their unity together in these matters.

What it's never been about? Disrespecting the flag--that's a lie. It was a lie when Kaepernick first started protesting, and it's still a lie now. The entire reason Kaepernic started kneeling (previously he was merely sitting down) was a friend of his, Nate Boyer--a green beret--pointed out that they took a knee to honor the fallen dead. Taking the knee means honoring the fallen.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Fireinfolding]

Yes, we all know half the country (amost) claims it is disrespect.

Then why act so surprised? Where is this respectful petition?
Or was the whole notion of a respectful petition found in the little piggy socks on one of the players?

I am claiming they are wrong to do so.

You called it a petition others might call it (the socks ordeal, and the timing) disrespectful, but where is this petition you spoke of? Why cant they get together just sign one and send it in like other folks do?

In fact, if you ask those taking the knee, most if not all will say they did not intend to disrespect our country or our flag . . . . so why is it called disrespect?

They bow the knee in disrepect to police during the anthem?

There is the matter of your tribal loyalty. You think that because the president and other right wing pundents call it disrespect, you should agree with them.

I hate to dissapoint you, but I dont vote, Im not even registered to vote. And I subscribe to some left leaning channels as well as some conservative, some of which hate Trump.

But those who first led out calling it disrespect . . . what led them to do that? In my opinion, it is a means of dismissing the petition the knee represents. By distracting people from the call to address the very real problem of excessive racism in some police forces . . . so they can continue to ignore the problem.

You have an opinion just like anyone, else, and many disagree with you too. If they want to petition then do it. What is stopping them? I wish actors just read their scripts and football players just played ball minus all the crap.

Thank you for your confession you have not been paying attention to the very real problem when it was presented in other ways.

Sure thing

 

[gym_class_hero]

The players are not disrupting the game. They just choose not to stand during the National Anthem.

We do have individual freedoms, and how much control do we want to give away to employers? See post 119.

Trump: NFL owners should fire players who protest the national anthem puts us on a slippery slope when it comes to our freedom as individuals.



Certainly money is a key factor. In fact, the US Defense Department paid 14 NFL teams $5.4M to honor soldiers.

Until 2009, players stayed in the locker rooms, while the National Anthem was played. See Paid Patriotism Problem.

I never said they are disrupting the game. They obviously are offending some of the customers, which is never good business.

we give away plenty of freedoms to employers. they can tell us what time to come to work, what to wear and other things. Nobody forces you to work for an employer whos rules you don't like. You are FREE to seek employment elsewhere.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Werent they also kneeling for the same over in Britain but when their anthem started they stood? For what cause was that, they have both a past as well as police brutality there. At least be consistent

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Then why act so surprised? Where is this respectful petition?

I'm not really surprised that the alt right turns a respectful act into a disrespectful one as a distraction from the reason for the gesture.

You called it a petition others might call it (the socks ordeal, and the timing) disrespectful, but where is this petition you spoke of? Why cant they get together just sign one and send it in like other folks do?

The kneelers said why they are kneeling. That is their petition. Of course, there have been other attempts to bring an end to racial prejudice. This one at least seems to have gotten some attention.

They bow the knee in disrepect to police during the anthem?

Oh, should they respect racial animosity if its found in police?

I hate to dissapoint you, but I dont vote, Im not even registered to vote. And I subscribe to some left leaning channels as well as some conservative, some of which hate Trump.

Everyone should vote, if of voting age. Politicians need to be thinking that those people out there they represent are going to actually vote and they have to take that into account.

You have an opinion just like anyone, else, and many disagree with you too. If they want to petition then do it. What is stopping them? I wish actors just read their scripts and football players just played ball minus all the crap.

Sometimes you will get that wish and sometimes you will not. Think of all the entertainment value we are getting from this! The excitement! But we should all be a little more respectful one of another.

 

[Yekcidmij]

What it's never been about? Disrespecting the flag--that's a lie.

I would take their statements on face value, but it seems a lot of people think the act of kneeling during the national anthem is in fact disrespectful, regardless of intent.

By analogy, I would consider spitting on my grandparents graves to be disrespectful, even if someone were just trying to clear their throat.

... a friend of his, Nate Boyer--a green beret--pointed out that they took a knee to honor the fallen dead. Taking the knee means honoring the fallen.

So Army soldiers kneel during the national anthem for fallen brethren? Doubtful. In all my years of service, it would be the fist I've come across it.

"We sorta came to a middle ground where he would take a knee alongside his teammate. Soldiers take a knee in front of a fallen brother’s grave, you know, to show respect. When we’re on a patrol, you know, and we go into a security halt, we take a knee, and we pull security." - Nate Boyer

That description of kneeling is not what I observe happening in the NFL. A second observation is that Boyer's comments imply that he doesn't really agree on kneeling during the anthem, otherwise he wouldn't have to "come to middle ground" about it.

 

[Fireinfolding]

I'm not really surprised that the alt right turns a respectful act into a disrespectful one as a distraction from the reason for the gesture.

Newsweeks includes 19 % of the Democrats as those among the number which believes they should be fired for doing so

Poll: Who’s backing the NFL anthem protesters? The answer may surprise you

So its not some white nationalist thing when it comes to it being considered disrespectful.

Maybe those little piggy socks worn earlier on are considered to be the respectful springboard into all this, I dont know.

The kneelers said why they are kneeling. That is their petition.

The men said why they were kneeling and define it as a petition, I dont understand, where does petition ask for kneeling ?

Of course, there have been other attempts to bring an end to racial prejudice. This one at least seems to have gotten some attention.

All these millionaire black men feel discriminated against?

Oh, should they respect racial animosity if its found in police?

That has nothing to do with what I said
I said, "They bow the knee in disrepect to police during the anthem?"

Sometimes you will get that wish and sometimes you will not. Think of all the entertainment value we are getting from this! The excitement! But we should all be a little more respectful one of another.

That didnt answer anything for me either, but I am growing bored of this forum and this will be my last reply so have the last word I have other commitments.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

The men said why they were kneeling and define it as a petition, I dont understand, where does petition ask for kneeling ?

You are closing your mind to communication. You can do that, but don't expect us to think that is a valid argument.

All these millionaire black men feel discriminated against?

You think money makes up for discrimination? You think money buys immunity from discrimination? You are out of touch.

That has nothing to do with what I said
I said, "They bow the knee in disrepect to police during the anthem?"

How many unarmed civilians have to die from police bullets before it is ok to question what is going on? Please specify a number at which point criticism of the police is finally OK. If you refuse, you are placing the police above all supervision.

That didnt answer anything for me either, but I am growing bored of this forum and this will be my last reply so have the last word I have other commitments.

You can run away, it is your right. Be prepared for light to be shed on your arguments again should you return.

 

[SolomonVII]

Attendance at NFL games is down 11 percent from last year for the first three weeks of the season, which in itself was down from the previous year. Leftist radicals at ESPN hired for their leftist radicalism are getting fired for calling for boycotts of the games, companies are pulling their sponsorship of the games because the product has become unedifyingly un American for them, and liberal activists are calling for boycotts of ESPN for suspending activists for calling for a boycott of the product that is their livelihood.

Round and around it goes, like chickens with their heads cut off, like chickens cutting their own heads off actually. Flip flop, bleed.

Yea, it all does get boring after a while too though.
This is what disrespecting the symbols of America looks like, a bunch of crazy people frothing at the mouths.

<unsubscribe>

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

. . . .
This is what disrespecting the symbols of America looks like, a bunch of crazy people frothing at the mouths.

<unsubscribe>

To me, it is staying away from the voting booth that is what disrespecting the symbols of America looks like.

 

[lastofall]

[for me anyway] the Word of God should be the final authority for all things that pertain to life and godliness, and not anything that we think, therefore:

"Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour." (Romans 13:7)

"Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king." (1 Peter 2:17)

"Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee." (Matthew 17:27)

"And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain." (Matthew 5:41)

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Generally in life, one does not gain respect disrespecting something/someone else. It's usually the opposite way in that one gains respect by rising above one's circumstances; no matter how bad or unfair those circumstances may be. The players have the right to protest but the right to do so, does not make it the right thing to do.

Those who kneel are said, by some, to be disrespecting the flag. Others disagree.

I think those who accuse the kneelers of disrespecting the flag are disrespecting the kneelers. The kneelers think they have a legitimate point to make. That point is being disrespected by the critics.

Some of the kneeler critics sincerely wish to defend the flag. Others are anxious to disrespect anyone who tries to stop racist ways in our society.

 

[ViaCrucis]

[for me anyway] the Word of God should be the final authority for all things that pertain to life and godliness, and not anything that we think, therefore:

"Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour." (Romans 13:7)

"Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king." (1 Peter 2:17)

"Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee." (Matthew 17:27)

"And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain." (Matthew 5:41)

Curious, to what end do you think St. Paul intended us to take our honor of the governing authorities? Offer a pinch of incense and swear by the name of Caesar and reproach Christ and His name?

"Then, the proconsul urging him, and saying, 'Swear [by Caesar], and I will set you at liberty, reproach Christ;' Polycarp declared, 'Eighty and six years have I served Him, and He never did me any injury: how then can I blaspheme my King and my Saviour?'" - Martyrdom of Polycarp

Perhaps recognize other lords to whom we should devote ourselves?

"for us there is but one God ... and one Lord" (1 Corinthians 8:6)

"2. 'Jesus Christ has been made wisdom and righteousness and sanctification and redemption for us by God.' 1 Cor. 1:30

As Jesus Christ is God's comforting pronouncement of the forgiveness of all our sins, so, with equal seriousness, he is also God's vigorous announcement of his claim upon our whole life. Through him there comes to us joyful liberation from the godless ties of this world for free, grateful service to his creatures.

We reject the false doctrine that there could be areas of our life in which we would not belong to Jesus Christ but to other lords, areas in which we would not need justification and sanctification through him." - The Theological Declaration of Barmen, Article 2

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Dirk1540]

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