Kingdom of Heaven

[5thKingdom]

.

In the Bible, the "Kingdom of Heaven" refers to the PEOPLE associated with the God of the Bible.


Some Bible passages focus primarily on the saved ("wheat") within the Kingdom,
some passages focus primarily on the unsaved ("tares") and some passages focus on
BOTH the saved and the unsaved PEOPLE living in the "Kingdom of Heaven".


The first "Kingdom of Heaven" on earth was the (1st) Pre-Flood Kingdom.
This Kingdom of Heaven included all the Saints living from the time of Adam to Noah.
At "the end" of this Kingdom - all the Saints were "harvested" (on the Ark)
into the SECOND "Kingdom of Heaven" on earth.


The second "Kingdom of Heaven" on earth was the (2nd) Old Testament Kingdom.
This Kingdom of Heaven included all the "wheat" and all the "tares" in the Jewish Kingdom.
This Kingdom of Heaven did NOT include any PEOPLE who were not associated with the Jewish Gospel.
At "the end" of this Kingdom - all the Saints were "harvested" into the THIRD "Kingdom of Heaven" on earth.


The third "Kingdom of Heaven" on earth was the (3rd) New Testament Kingdom.
This Kingdom of Heaven included all the "wheat" and all the "tares" living in the Christian Kingdom.
This Kingdom did NOT include PEOPLE not associated with the Christian Gospel.


This Kingdom did NOT include Moslems, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists, Secularists, or any other SOUL
NOT associated with the Christian Gospel. At "the end" of this Kingdom (when the Great Commission is finished)
all the "end-time" Saints are "harvested" OUT of the Christian Kingdom (as they follow the "Little Horn")
INTO the (4th) Great Tribulation Kingdom.


The fourth "Kingdom of Heaven" on earth is the (4th) Great Tribulation Kingdom.
This Kingdom of Heaven includes ONLY the "wheat" (Wise Virgins) and the "tares" (Foolish Virgins)
that were "harvested" from the previous (3rd) Christian Kingdom of Heaven. These PEOPLE are shown
as "Ten Virgins". They are also shown as "Ten Horns" and "Ten Toes" and as "Ten Kings". And, in EVERY CASE,
these PEOPLE are shown as the LAST PEOPLE in the "Kingdom of Heaven" BEFORE the Lord Returns
and establishes the (5th) Eternal Kingdom of Heaven.


Contrary to popular opinion, the (5th) Eternal Kingdom of Heaven
begins AFTER "the end" of the (4th) Great Tribulation Kingdom and NOT
AFTER "the end" of the (3rd) New Testament Kingdom.


It is not possible to understand the historical fulfillment of Great Tribulation EVENTS
except within the CONTEXT of the EXPERIENCES of the PEOPLE living in Daniel's 4th Beast,
also shown as people alive during the 7-Headed Revelations Beast.




.

 

[Bible2]

5thKingdom said in post 1:

It is not possible to understand the historical fulfillment of Great Tribulation EVENTS
except within the CONTEXT of the EXPERIENCES of the PEOPLE living in Daniel's 4th Beast,
also shown as people alive during the 7-Headed Revelations Beast.

Regarding "the historical fulfillment of Great Tribulation EVENTS", note that there isn't any. For the tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, which Jesus will return immediately after (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), hasn't started yet. It will begin with a horrible war, which, with its aftermath of famines and epidemics, will end up killing 1/4 of the world (Revelation 6:4-8). The "great sword" of this war (Revelation 6:4) could be Israel's nuclear weapons. After this war, there will be a terrible series of natural disasters historically unprecedented in their magnitude, such as a gigantic volcanic eruption (Revelation 6:12-14), possibly of the Yellowstone Caldera, and then the collapse into the ocean of another erupting volcano (Revelation 8:8-9), possibly one of the Canary Islands, the collapse of which could set up a huge tsunami which could destroy the eastern seaboard of the U.S.

If such a tsunami occurs, it could cause a string of awful, Fukushima-type, nuclear-meltdown radiation disasters in the nuclear power plants and their nuclear-waste storage facilities all along the eastern seaboard of the U.S. Also, if the tsunami breaks open the germ-containment structures on Plum Island, just off the coast of Connecticut, especially deadly viruses and bacteria could be washed inland and spread across the U.S. and Canada as they infect animals and people.

After the volcanic activity and possible tsunami, a comet will strike the earth (Revelation 8:10-11), possibly in the U.S. and Canadian Great Lakes region. As the comet falls from the sky, it will look like a great star, or like a burning lamp in the sky (Revelation 8:10). It will strike a region of the earth which contains 1/3 of the world's fresh surface water (Revelation 8:10b), and it will contain some poisonous element which will poison that water so that many who drink from it will die (Revelation 8:11b).

Sometime after that, weird locust-like beings will swarm up from the bottomless pit of the earth to torment mankind with excruciating stings for 5 months (Revelation 9:2-10). The world could see them as "aliens" who had been hibernating for thousands of years in a cavern deep underground. The locust-like beings won't kill anyone, but they will make those they sting want to die, the pain will be so bad (Revelation 9:5-6).

After that, an army of 200 million weird horse-like beings and their (possibly unclean spirit) riders will come upon the earth (Revelation 9:16-19). If they descend from the sky in spaceships, the world could see them as aliens. But they and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") could (falsely) say that they are YHWH God's main army. In fact, they could be loyal to Lucifer (Satan, the dragon, Revelation 12:9). The 4 fallen angels now bound at the Euphrates who will lead this army (Revelation 9:14-16) could employ it to make mankind utterly desperate before its complete takeover by Lucifer and the Antichrist mid-tribulation (Revelation 12:9 to 13:18). For when this army starts killing 1/3 of mankind (Revelation 9:16-19), then could also begin one of the biggest deceptions ever wrought on humanity. For the Antichrist, who by that time could have managed to have been elected as the President of a Mediterranean Union formed by the joining of the European Union with an Arab Union stretching from Oman to Morocco, could announce to the world that he has sent a mental distress call to (what he could call) "My Father, our Lord Lucifer, to come with his legions of angels, and rescue mankind from this murderous army of YHWH".

(And all of this will be part of only the first half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.)

It is at this point that Lucifer and his fallen angels could be cast down out of heaven to the earth permanently after losing a mid-tribulation war in heaven (Revelation 12:7-9). But instead of coming down as a defeated force, they could descend for all the world to see in gigantic, magnificent golden spaceships onto the "Champ de Mars", Mars being the same as Marduk the dragon, the chief god of ancient Babylon. The "Champ de Mars" is the large open area in front of the Eiffel Tower in Paris. After landing there, Lucifer, a literal 7-headed, red dragon (Revelation 12:3,9), could emerge in great splendor and command his angels to capture the army of 200 million weird horse-like beings and their (possibly unclean spirit) riders, who could then pretend to defect from serving YHWH to serving Lucifer. Lucifer could then confirm that he has come to rescue mankind because the Antichrist, who he could say is his only-begotten "Son", called upon him (like in an Antichrist counterfeit of Matthew 26:53). Lucifer and the Antichrist could then be received wholeheartedly by the unsaved world as the saviors of mankind. And the unsaved world could be left thinking (mistakenly) that Lucifer and his angels were more powerful than even YHWH God's main army.

Lucifer and the Antichrist, along with the Antichrist's miracle-working False Prophet, will then deceive the world into actually worshipping Lucifer and the Antichrist and a speaking (possibly android) image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4-16, Revelation 19:20; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). And everyone will be made to receive a (possibly scarification) mark of the Antichrist either on their right hand or forehead, consisting of either the Antichrist's name or some representation of the gematrial number of his name (666) (Revelation 13:16-18). After Lucifer and the Antichrist have ruled the world for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:4-18), YHWH will send 7 vials of wrath against the unsaved world (Revelation 16).

Near the end of the 7 vials, unclean spirits like frogs will come out of the mouths of Lucifer, the Antichrist, and the False Prophet (Revelation 16:13). And these unclean spirits like frogs will go forth and perform amazing miracles to convince the world's armies to gather together at Armageddon (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel) (Revelation 16:16) to battle against YHWH himself (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19). After gathering together at Armageddon as a staging area, the armies will travel south and pillage Jerusalem, right before Jesus (who is YHWH: John 10:30) returns from heaven and defeats them completely (Revelation 19:11 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:2-21).

 

[5thKingdom]

Regarding "the historical fulfillment of Great Tribulation EVENTS", note that there isn't any.

Daniel's first Beast represents the 1st Kingdom of Heaven. This occurred between Creation and the Flood.
In Daniel 7 this Kingdom is presented initially as a Lion - and then it's shown as a man.
In Daniel 2 this Kingdom is initially shown as a golden head - and then as silver chest/arms.
In both cases, these prophecies represent the CHANGE in RULE/GOVERNMENT over the Kingdom...
occurring at the FALL OF ADAM.


Daniel's (1st) Pre-Flood Kingdom of Heaven began with Adam in the Garden.
At that time, the Kingdom was Ruled by Christ - represented as the Lion in Daniel 7,
and as the Golden Head in Daniel 2. When Adam rebelled against the rule (government)
of God, the "head" of the Kingdom changed from a Lion to a man. At that time the Kingdom
changed from the Rule of God (represented by the Golden Head) to the inferior rule of man
(represented by the silver arms).


This CHANGE in Daniel's (1st) Pre-Flood Kingdom demonstrates the EFFECT of Adam being "cast out"
of the Kingdom of Heaven (represented by the Garden of Eden) as he was then "translated"
into the Kingdom of Satan.... in other words, when Adam sinned - he "died".


The (5th) Eternal Kingdom of Heaven is a spiritual kingdom. This Kingdom has an established Rule (government),
it occupies spiritual space and it has a great multitude of spiritual citizens. This is a very REAL Kingdom
that has existed since the creation of Angels... long before God created the earth or mankind.


When they were created, Angels existed in the Kingdom of Heaven and (as with all creatures)
Angels were always SUBJECT to the Rule of their Creator... for only God is Sovereign and Autonomous.
The correct (Biblical) worldview is that, like the Angels before them, mankind is NEVER sovereign or autonomous
"like God".


Satan's "original sin" was the first rebellion against the Rule/Government of God.
Satan wanted to become (sovereign/autonomous) "like God" and he led an angelic rebellion
against the existing Rule/Government of God. Satan and his demons were defeated and
they were "cast out" of the eternal Kingdom of Heaven... and thus, the Kingdom of Babylon
was established when Satan first rebelled.


When the Kingdom of Babylon was established it consisted EXCLUSIVELY of Satan and his "fallen angels"....
as Satan is the Ruler of the Kingdom of Babylon. In the Bible, Satan is called the "King of Babylon".
Just as there's a King and Ruler (government) over the Kingdom of Heaven, with original sin,
there is also a king and ruler (government) over the Kingdom of Babylon.


Obviously, Satan was already "fallen" when he deceived Eve in the Garden.
When Adam rebelled against the Rule of God, he (and all of mankind) then "died"
in the sense that they (both body and soul) were "thrust out" of the Kingdom of Heaven
and "translated" into the Kingdom of Babylon. This EVENT was represented by Adam and Eve
being "cast out" of the Garden of Eden.


From that point on, Adam and Eve (and all their offspring) "belonged" to their new "king" Satan.
If not for the Sovereign Grace of God all of mankind would have lived and died within Satan's Kingdom.
However, by the Sovereign Grace of God, and with the Particular Atonement of the Lord Jesus Christ,
some men are "elected" by God and "translated" into His Eternal Kingdom... Daniel's Four Beasts
are the earthly representation of that Kingdom of Heaven. Daniel's Beasts represent
the SOULS (but not the bodies) of those "born again" in each separate Kingdom.


Daniel's (1st) Pre-Flood Kingdom represents the SOULS (but not the bodies)
of all the Saints from Adam to Noah.


When we say Adam (or any man) "belongs" to Satan, we are saying the TOTAL MAN (both body and soul).
When God "translates" the Elect out of the Kingdom of Satan - into His earthly Kingdom of Heaven on earth,
He ONLY TRANSLATES the SOUL of that man. The body of this Elect "born again" individual
remains in Satan's Kingdom until the 7th trumpet sounds and the 3rd Woe begins.


Therefore, Daniel's (1st) Pre-Flood Kingdom of Heaven only represents the SOULS (but not the bodies)
of all those "born again" from the creation of Adam until the Ark of Noah. More than that,
we also know that only eight (8) "souls" were harvested on the Ark, during the transition
OUT of Daniel's (1st) Pre-Flood Kingdom and INTO the (2nd) Jewish Kingdom of Heaven.


The transition of Saints OUT of Daniel's (1st) Pre-Flood Kingdom - INTO the (2nd) Jewish Kingdom,
demonstrated a basic principle that applied EVERY TIME God established a new Kingdom of Heaven.
This first transition also established the Biblical perspective needed to harmonize prophecy from ALL Kingdoms.
Whenever God removes His Spirit from one Kingdom of Heaven - and establishes His next Kingdom,
All living Saints "depart" from the old Kingdom and "go forth" into the new Kingdom...
leaving ONLY unsaved individual in the old Kingdom.


Because of the physical nature of the Judgment on the (1st) Pre-Flood Kingdom,
there's never a problem understanding the SEPARATION from the (2nd) Jewish Kingdom.
While not as obvious as a physical Ark, this same Biblical principle is applied to each subsequent Kingdom.


When the (2nd) Old Testament Kingdom was finished, ALL living Saints "departed" their Temples
as they "went forth" into the (3rd) New Testament Kingdom of Heaven. Likewise,
when the Great Commission is finished, ALL living Saints must "depart" their churches
as they "go forth" (following the "Little Horn") into Daniel's (4th) Great Tribulation Kingdom.
The PEOPLE who transition OUT of the 3rd Kingdom and INTO the 4th Kingdom are shown
in Scripture as "Ten Virgins", as "Ten Horns", as "Ten Toes" and as "Ten Kings"...
and IN EACH CASE, it is these PEOPLE in Daniel's 4th Kingdom that are "harvested"
(in the FINAL harvest) INTO the (5th) Eternal Kingdom of God.


.

 

[Douggg]

.

In the Bible, the "Kingdom of Heaven" refers to the PEOPLE associated with the God of the Bible.


Some Bible passages focus primarily on the saved ("wheat") within the Kingdom,
some passages focus primarily on the unsaved ("tares") and some passages focus on
BOTH the saved and the unsaved PEOPLE living in the "Kingdom of Heaven".


The first "Kingdom of Heaven" on earth was the (1st) Pre-Flood Kingdom.
This Kingdom of Heaven included all the Saints living from the time of Adam to Noah.
At "the end" of this Kingdom - all the Saints were "harvested" (on the Ark)
into the SECOND "Kingdom of Heaven" on earth.


The second "Kingdom of Heaven" on earth was the (2nd) Old Testament Kingdom.
This Kingdom of Heaven included all the "wheat" and all the "tares" in the Jewish Kingdom.
This Kingdom of Heaven did NOT include any PEOPLE who were not associated with the Jewish Gospel.
At "the end" of this Kingdom - all the Saints were "harvested" into the THIRD "Kingdom of Heaven" on earth.


The third "Kingdom of Heaven" on earth was the (3rd) New Testament Kingdom.
This Kingdom of Heaven included all the "wheat" and all the "tares" living in the Christian Kingdom.
This Kingdom did NOT include PEOPLE not associated with the Christian Gospel.


This Kingdom did NOT include Moslems, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists, Secularists, or any other SOUL
NOT associated with the Christian Gospel. At "the end" of this Kingdom (when the Great Commission is finished)
all the "end-time" Saints are "harvested" OUT of the Christian Kingdom (as they follow the "Little Horn")
INTO the (4th) Great Tribulation Kingdom.


The fourth "Kingdom of Heaven" on earth is the (4th) Great Tribulation Kingdom.
This Kingdom of Heaven includes ONLY the "wheat" (Wise Virgins) and the "tares" (Foolish Virgins)
that were "harvested" from the previous (3rd) Christian Kingdom of Heaven. These PEOPLE are shown
as "Ten Virgins". They are also shown as "Ten Horns" and "Ten Toes" and as "Ten Kings". And, in EVERY CASE,
these PEOPLE are shown as the LAST PEOPLE in the "Kingdom of Heaven" BEFORE the Lord Returns
and establishes the (5th) Eternal Kingdom of Heaven.


Contrary to popular opinion, the (5th) Eternal Kingdom of Heaven
begins AFTER "the end" of the (4th) Great Tribulation Kingdom and NOT
AFTER "the end" of the (3rd) New Testament Kingdom.


It is not possible to understand the historical fulfillment of Great Tribulation EVENTS
except within the CONTEXT of the EXPERIENCES of the PEOPLE living in Daniel's 4th Beast,
also shown as people alive during the 7-Headed Revelations Beast.

More off-the-wall hyperbola. Jesus did not say 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th Kingdom of Heaven.

 

[Bible2]

5thKingdom said in post 3:

Daniel's first Beast represents the 1st Kingdom of Heaven.

Instead, in Daniel 7, the first 3 beasts (Daniel 7:3-6) represent the ancient, earthly empires of Babylon (lion), Medo-Persia (bear), and Greece (leopard). The 4th beast, or 4th "king"/"kingdom" (Daniel 7:17,23), represents the ancient Roman empire. The 10 horns/kings which come out of it (Daniel 7:7,24) could represent 10 major kingdoms/nations today which came out the former territory of the Roman empire, which consisted not only of Western Europe, but also the Middle East and North Africa. These 10 nations could be Germany, the U.K., France, Italy, Spain, Turkey, Egypt, Iraq, Algeria, and Syria. The 10 part-iron/part-clay toes of Daniel 2:42 could represent the same thing as the 10 horns of Daniel 7:7. The Europeans could be the iron, and the Arabs and Turks could be the clay. In Daniel 2:43, the inability of the iron to mix with the clay could represent how, for example, there are many Turks living in Germany, but they remain separated in ghettoes within German cities. Similarly, there are many Arab Algerians living in France, but they remain separated in ghettoes within French cities.

But despite this social separation, which could endure indefinitely, the people of Western Europe on the one hand and the people of the Middle East and North Africa on the other could still one day put aside their political separation and become united into one federation. For Daniel 2:42 refers to the 10 as a singular "kingdom". The person who brings this about could be the Antichrist. The arising of the "little" horn (Daniel 7:8, Daniel 8:9), which is "diverse" from the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:24), could mean that the Antichrist will arise from a little country.

And the little horn arising from "among" the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:8) could mean that the Antichrist's country's territory used to be part of the Roman empire. And before that, it was part of one of the 4 Diadochian Greek kingdoms which succeeded the Greek empire of Alexander the Great (Daniel 8:8-9,21-25). The territory of these 4 kingdoms stretched from Greece over to Iran, and down into Egypt. So the Antichrist could come from the Middle East. He could be an Arab who will come from the little country of Lebanon, from the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4).

The Antichrist could start out by claiming to be a Baathist. After becoming the leader of Lebanon, he could peacefully gain control of a Baathist federation of 3 of the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:24): Egypt, "toward the south" of Lebanon (Daniel 8:9), and Iraq and Syria, "toward the east" of Lebanon (Daniel 8:9). This federation could also include the minor nation of a United Palestine, i.e. a defeated Israel, "the pleasant land" (Daniel 8:9).

This Baathist federation could be put together in the future by an Iraqi Baathist General who could completely defeat and occupy Israel and Egypt with a huge Iraqi Army (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17 the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath"), but who could then mysteriously disappear (Daniel 11:19) shortly before the Antichrist arises on the world stage (Daniel 11:21-45). Years later, when the Antichrist gains control of all 10 of the major nations, he could appoint kings over them (Revelation 17:12) who will defer to him (Revelation 17:13), like when Napoleon gained control of different nations, he appointed kings over them who would defer to him.

 

[Bible2]

5thKingdom said in post 3:

Satan and his demons were defeated and they were "cast out" of the eternal Kingdom of Heaven...

Revelation 12:7-9 hasn't happened yet, but is part of the things which must be hereafter (Revelation 4:1b).

Just as what John saw in Revelation 4:2-11 are literal things in heaven, so what he saw in Revelation 12:7-9 is a literal, future, mid-tribulation war in heaven, between Michael and his angels on the one hand, and Satan and his angels on the other, resulting in Satan and his angels being defeated and cast down to the earth permanently (Revelation 12:8-9,12-13).

Revelation 12:7-9 shows that Michael and his angels are more powerful than Satan and his angels. But this doesn't mean that Satan won't be able to deceive the world (Revelation 12:9) into thinking that he and his angels (with the help of a united mankind) will be able to defeat YHWH and his army (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19).

 

[Bible2]

5thKingdom said in post 3:

In the Bible, Satan is called the "King of Babylon".

That's right (Isaiah 14:4). He is the spiritual king of the figurative Babylon which encompasses the whole world (Revelation chapters 17-18).

I.e., Revelation's symbolic "Babylon" (Revelation chapters 17-18) represents all of mankind's corrupt political (Revelation 17:18), economic (Revelation 18:11), and religious (Revelation 18:24) systems throughout the earth (Revelation 18:3), and throughout history (Revelation 17:9-10). The 10 kings of the Antichrist's empire will destroy with fire what Revelation's "Babylon" represents (Revelation 17:16-17) when they destroy the cities of the nations (Revelation 16:19), probably with nukes (and probably with Fission-Fusion-Fission, "FFF", or "666", nukes, "F" representing the number six in English gematria), at the time of the 7th vial (Revelation 16:17,19), which will be the final event (Revelation 16:17) of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:2 to 20:6, Matthew 24:29-31). They could do this under the direction of Lucifer/Satan (Isaiah 14:17,12), who could want to leave only a literal "scorched earth" for Jesus to return to.

Near the very end of the future tribulation, Lucifer (employing the ancient lies of Gnosticism) could say to the Antichrist and his 10 kings something like: "Our great battle against the evil, tyrant god YHWH is about to begin [Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19], a battle which we will win, and so we will be able to escape YHWH's prison house, this material universe, and return to the wholly-spiritual Pleroma [i.e. Heaven]. So let us now destroy this prison cell, this foul planet, and let us, as it were, burn up all the gewgaws which we have hung upon our cell walls. Let us burn up all our great cities, all our magnificent systems. Let us break all our chains of attachment to this vile physical realm, that we might more freely ascend back to our rightful place in the Pleroma [cf. Isaiah 14:13-14]".

Of course this will be a lie. For at his 2nd coming, Jesus (who is YHWH: John 10:30, Zechariah 14:3-4) will completely defeat the world's armies, arrayed against YHWH (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19-21). And Jesus will have Lucifer bound in the bottomless pit during the subsequent 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-6, Isaiah 14:15). And Jesus will restore ruined parts of the earth and make them like the Garden of Eden (Ezekiel 36:35, Isaiah 51:3). And after the 1,000 years and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-15), God will create a new heaven (a new 1st heaven, a new sky/atmosphere for the earth) and a new earth (a new surface for the earth) (Revelation 21:1). And then God will descend from the 3rd heaven in the literal city of New Jerusalem to live with saved humanity on the new earth (Revelation 21:2-4).

 

[5thKingdom]

More off-the-wall hyperbola. Jesus did not say 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th Kingdom of Heaven.

No Douggg, you are correct.
However that is only a SMALL PART of the whole.... and you cannot have Truth with contradictions.
(BTW... any child over 5 can COUNT the 4 Kingdoms BEFORE the (5th) Eternal Kingdom).


God DID SAY that the Truth about Daniel's Prophecies COULD NOT BE KNOWN
by ANY MAN until the "time-of-the-end".... that ONE PASSAGE completely destroys
any PRETENSE that Daniel's Beasts represented the physical/political kingdoms
of Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome since that THEORY was common LONG BEFORE
the "time-of-the-end" and/or the "unsealing" of these Biblical "mysteries".


So we see that you must INTENTIONALLY IGNORE the Bible
in order to continue to pretend that Daniel's Beasts represent
physical/political Kingdoms. (Dan 12:8-10)


Secondly.... God DID SAY that Daniel's 4th Beast was DESTROYED and the PEOPLE
in the 4th Kingdom were "cast alive" into HELL.... while the PEOPLE in the 3rd Kingdom
continue on earth for a "Season and Time".


Your eschatology does NOT teach that the Romans were JUDGED and "cast alive" into HELL,while the Babylonians, Persians and Greeks were NOT JUDGED and continue on earth.,

So AGAIN we see that you must INTENTIONALLY IGNORE the Bible
in order to continue to pretend that Daniel's Beast represent political Kingdoms. (Dan 7:11-12)


---------------------------


So.... the ONLY criticism you can level is that "Jesus did not say..."
When you must INTENTIONALLY IGNORE other passages to pretend that means something.
And THAT (pretending) makes you feel better?


If you REALLY want to show some HARMONY OF SCRIPTURE in your words....
how about you try to harmonize your pretense with what I wrote above.


Listen buddy.... I encourage you to TRY to find some (Biblical) contradiction
in my Gospel. But pretending that you have a (Biblically) valid point by saying
"Jesus did not say...." is childish at best.


Truth requires HARMONY of ALL SCRIPTURE.... I have done that.
If you want to REFUTE my Gospel (and I encourage you to try)
all you have to do is fine ONE PASSAGE that does not harmonize.


However.... PRETENDING that Romans were "cast alive" into Hell
is NOT a (Biblically) valid option and PRETENDING that the Truth
could POSSIBLY be known BEFORE it was "unsealed" by God at
the "time-of-the-end" is also NOT a (Biblically) valid option.


Douggg.... the "time-of-the-end" was NOT "the end" of the (2nd) Jewish Kingdom....
and it was NOT "the end" of the (3rd) Christian Kingdom.... it could ONLY be "the end"
of the (4th) Great Tribulation Kingdom or the "Season and Time" after the 4th Kingdom is destroyed.



I do NOT mean to criticize you for your beliefs.... people have been teaching
the Romans were Daniel's 4th Beast for hundreds of years... However, I do
mean to criticize anyone who discovers their gospel does not HARMONIZE
with the Bible (as you have now discovered)... and yet they decide to simply
IGNORE their contradictions instead of submit to the Bible and CHANGE their
false gospel..


.

 

[5thKingdom]

Instead, in Daniel 7, the first 3 beasts (Daniel 7:3-6) represent the ancient, earthly empires of Babylon (lion), Medo-Persia (bear), and Greece (leopard). The 4th beast, or 4th "king"/"kingdom" (Daniel 7:17,23), represents the ancient Roman empire.

If you want to pretend that you understand something....

Then please explain how the PEOPLE in ancient Rome were JUDGED

and SENTENCED TO HELL.... while the PEOPLE in Babylon, Persia and Greece

were NOT JUDGED and the continue on earth for a "Season and Time"

AFTER the Romans are "cast alive" into HELL.



In other words.... every time you PRETEND that you understand Truth

while you must INTENTIONALLY IGNORE the Biblical FACT that your eschatology

does NOT HARMONIZE with what the Bible REQUIRES.... every time you do that

you expose your darkness because you demonstrate your rebellion against

the authority of Scripture in order to protect your false gospel.


It's really as simple as that.


The VAST MAJORITY of people calling themselves "Christian" are not "wheat".

You can tell the REAL SAINTS by their fruit.... real Saints do NOT continue

to preach something that (they KNOW) contradicts the Bible.



.

 

[5thKingdom]

Revelation 12:7-9 hasn't happened yet, but is part of the things which must be hereafter (Revelation 4:1b).

OK.... let me see if I have this correct.

You actually think that Satan was allowed to remain in the "Kingdom of God"

AFTER he led an angelic rebellion?



Satan is NOT a "fallen angel" in YOUR gOSPEL?



You actually teach that Satan is STILL in the eternal "Kingdom of God"?

Really? Is THAT what you are actually teaching now?
.

 

[Douggg]

No Douggg, you are correct.
However that is only a SMALL PART of the whole.... and you cannot have Truth with contradictions.
(BTW... any child over 5 can COUNT the 4 Kingdoms BEFORE the (5th) Eternal Kingdom).

The bible says FOUR beasts in Daniel 7, not five beasts. The Kingdom of God is not represented by any beast. Nor is called the 5th kingdom anywhere in the bible.

You are creating confusion and error.

 

[5thKingdom]

More off-the-wall hyperbola. Jesus did not say 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th Kingdom of Heaven.

Daniel's Second Beast represents the (2nd) Jewish Kingdom of Heaven on earth.
Daniel's Four Beasts represent the Spiritual Kingdoms of Heaven on earth consisting of
the SOULS (but not the bodies) of the Saints living in each Kingdom. Daniel's Kingdoms
do NOT represent political kingdoms... Daniel 7:11-12 proves that.


While very few Elect were "born again" during the (1st ) Pre-Flood Kingdom, by comparison,
the Grace of God flourished during the (2nd) Jewish Kingdom. It was in this sense that
Daniel's (2nd) Jewish Kingdom (of Brass) was said to "rule" over all the "earth"...
as Daniel's Beast/Kingdoms represent the whole "world" or "earth".


During the 2nd Kingdom of Heaven, national Israel was God's chosen people.
With very few exceptions, those outside of the Jewish Kingdom had no hope of salvation....
and those exceptions were prophetic in nature, indicating an outreach of His Grace in the 3rd Kingdom,
which included BOTH Jew and Gentile. None of the Jewish Saints understood Daniel's Kingdoms.
Even Daniel did not understand that there would be another (3rd) Kingdom after "the end" of his Kingdom.
Nor did any Jewish Saint understand there would be a 4th Kingdom.


Jewish Saints believed they were the ONLY KINGDOM of Heaven on earth because
the TRUTH about Daniel's Beasts remained "sealed" until the "time-of-the-end".
Likewise, Christian Saints believed we were the LAST KINGDOM on earth because
the TRUTH about another 4th Kingdom remained "sealed" from understanding.
Christians assumed all Bible prophecy related to THEIR Kingdom, just as Jewish Saints did.


During the transition from Daniel's 2nd Kingdom of Heaven - into the next 3rd Kingdom,
God removed His Holy Spirit from the Jewish Kingdom and then poured-out His Spirit upon
those people who were "harvested" into the (3rd) Christian Kingdom. From that point on,
the Jewish Kingdom would NEVER produce another child of God and it would NEVER again
have spiritual "dominion" or "authority" over the REAL Saints. From that point until "the end"
salvation was ONLY available through the Faith of the Lord Jesus Christ and within the 3rd Kingdom.


Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, the Kingdom of God shall be taken from you,
and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.


As with Daniel's (1st) Pre-Flood Kingdom, when God removed His Holy Spirit from the (2nd) Jewish Kingdom...
all the Saints "departed" from the Jewish Kingdom as they "went forth" (following Him) into the Christian Kingdom.
As with EVERY transition between Kingdoms, no Saint could remain (for long) in the old Kingdom,
after His Spirit had "departed". And, as with EVERY transition, those remaining in the old Kingdom
could never "see" the fulfillment of Biblical prophecies related to the subsequent Kingdom.


Without understanding the SEPARATION between the (2nd) Jewish Kingdom
and the (3rd) Christian Kingdom... and without understanding the TRANSITION
that occurred between these Kingdoms, it's simply NOT POSSIBLE to ever "see"
the historical fulfillment of 3rd Kingdom prophecies - much less the fulfillment
of 4th Kingdom prophecies.


Daniel's (4th) Great Tribulation Kingdom can ONLY be "seen" within the Biblical Context
of Daniel's Four Beasts and the fulfillment of the "Ten Virgins" that "departed"
from the (3rd) Christian Kingdom - as they follow the "Little Horn" into the
(4th) Great Tribulation Kingdom (aka the Revelations Beast).


.

 

[5thKingdom]

The bible says FOUR beasts in Daniel 7, not five beasts. The Kingdom of God is not represented by any beast. Nor is called the 5th kingdom anywhere in the bible.

You are creating confusion and error.

Sir... I never claimed there were five BEASTS... you made that up.

I said there are FOUR BEASTS before the (5th) Eternal Kingdom.

I am capable of counting to five.



However... if you now pretend that Daniel's "Beasts" do NOT represent

Kingdoms of VERY REAL PEOPLE.... then you only expose your own ignorance.



Daniel's first Beast represented KINGDOMS OF PEOPLE.

Likewise, Daniel's second Beast represented KINGDOMS OF PEOPLE.

And Daniel's third Beast also represents KINGDOMS OF PEOPLE.



Now here is where is starts to get interesting....

Daniel's 4th Beast represents the SAME PEOPLE as the Revelations Beast.

And both the PEOPLE in Daniel's 4th Beast and the SAME PEOPLE in the Revelation Beast....

are the LAST PEOPLE in the Kingdom before the Lord Returns (at "the end" of the 4th Beast)

and He establishes the (5th) Eternal Kingdom of God.



The Bible is VERY CLEAR about this.....

And you offer NO PASSAGES (other than your error on Rev 20) to REFUTE

this Biblical Truth...



So your ENTIRE UNDERSTANDING of the (4th) Great Tribulation Kingdom

rises and falls based on ONE THING.... the Truth about the "First Resurrection".



While my Gospel harmonizes with ALL SCRIPTURE,

including the TRUTH about the "First Resurrection" being our Regeneration.


.

 

[Douggg]

Sir... I never claimed there were five BEASTS... you made that up.

I said there are FOUR BEASTS before the (5th) Eternal Kingdom.

I am capable of counting to five.

You are inferring that there are five beasts by calling the Kingdom of God the fifth Kingdom. There is no term "fifth kingdom" in the bible.

Just stop making up terms "(5th) Eternal Kingdom" ! That creates confusion and error.

 

[5thKingdom]

[/B]You are inferring that there are five beasts by calling the Kingdom of God the fifth Kingdom. There is no term "fifth kingdom" in the bible.

Just stop making up terms "(5th) Eternal Kingdom" ! That creates confusion and error.

[/COLOR]

You sir are unbelievable.

You IGNORE everything I wrote about Bests = Kingdoms of PEOPLE

And you pretend that it's not possible to COUNT to the number 5.

More than that.... knowing about Daniel 12:8-10 you still feel comfortable

pretending the Bible does must SPECIFY this "mystery" in some words

that ONLY YOU can approve. You sir are a picture of someone in denial.

And, frankly, it is no longer possible to take you seriously as you

have consistently demonstrated that you don't want Truth.



.

 

[Douggg]

You sir are unbelievable.

You IGNORE everything I wrote about Bests = Kingdoms of PEOPLE

exactly !

And you pretend that it's not possible to COUNT to the number 5.

More than that.... knowing about Daniel 12:8-10 you still feel comfortable

pretending the Bible does must SPECIFY this "mystery" in some words

that ONLY YOU can approve. You sir are a picture of someone in denial.

And, frankly, it is no longer possible to take you seriously as you

have consistently demonstrated that you don't want Truth

.

The truth I pursue. Your off the wall ideas and self-created terms, I do not. You cannot convey your ideas by what it actually written in the bible, because you are in error.

 

[5thKingdom]

exactly !

.

[/B]The truth I pursue. Your off the wall ideas and self-created terms, I do not. You cannot convey your ideas by what it actually written in the bible, because you are in error.[/COLOR]

Fair enough....

I have accused YOU of preaching a lie because your doctrine

does NOT harmonize with the Bible.... and I have given you MANY passages

that you cannot harmonize - in fact you intentionally ignore them in order

to continue your pretense.


--------------


You claim I am preaching something false... PROVE IT.

You cannot simply say "the Bible does not say there are 5 Kingdoms"....

that is only YOUR DENIAL of what is plainly written in Daniel 7 or else

it's your inability (or unwillingness) to count to five.

You cannot argue that Daniel 7 does not SHOW 5 consecutive Kingdoms...

so you COMPLAIN that God did not provide a VERSE that you find acceptable,

Again, you act like a child.


----------


If you think something I have said is un-Biblical.... PROVE IT.

I am here for someone to PROVE something wrong.

However I do need BIBLICAL proof... not just your opinion.

Can you show ONE VERSE that contradicts ANYTHING that I have said?


--------------------


Again.... I am on this forum to be PROVEN WRONG....

are YOU (Mr. Douggg) able to find ONE VERSES that contradicts my Gospel?

Please show me.


.

 

[Douggg]

Fair enough....

I have accused YOU of preaching a lie because your doctrine

does NOT harmonize with the Bible....

Saying that I am preaching a lie is tantamount to calling me a liar. Calling me a liar is a violation of forum rules. Change your wording to say "error" instead of lie.

You claim I am preaching something false... PROVE IT.

You cannot simply say "the Bible does not say there are 5 Kingdoms"....

That the bible does say fourth kingdom in the text - and nothing about a fifth kingdom, that is proof that you are in error.

 

[5thKingdom]

Saying that I am preaching a lie is tantamount to calling me a liar. Calling me a liar is a violation of forum rules. Change your wording to say "error" instead of lie.


Would that make you feel better?


That the bible does say fourth kingdom in the text - and nothing about a fifth kingdom, that is proof that you are in error.




I am very sorry that you can not count past four.... let me help you - after four we have FIVE.

Does that help?




Douggg... when you PRETEND that TRUTH depends on HOW God "reveals" it in His Word,

rather, when you PRETEND that TRUTH depends on whether YOU APPROVE of HOW God "reveals" it...

Do you REALLY think that your opinion has any effect on Truth? REALLY?


.

 

[Douggg]

Saying that I am preaching a lie is tantamount to calling me a liar. Calling me a liar is a violation of forum rules. Change your wording to say "error" instead of lie.


Would that make you feel better?

It would stop the slander you are making.And be in compliance with forum rules.

That the bible does say fourth kingdom in the text - and nothing about a fifth kingdom, that is proof that you are in error.




I am very sorry that you can not count past four.... let me help you - after four we have FIVE.

Does that help?

I am a retired engineer once in charge of complicated projects; I understand how to count. So stop being so belittle-ing.

The important thing is knowing to read the bible and not make up my own terms of things not said there.

Douggg... when you PRETEND that TRUTH depends on HOW God "reveals" it in His Word,

rather, when you PRETEND that TRUTH depends on whether YOU APPROVE of HOW God "reveals" it in His Word...

Do you REALLY think that your opinion has any effect on Truth?

REALLY?

You are writing meaningless rhetoric, or rubbish as Nigel Farage would say.

Fourth Kingdom is a term found in the bible; fifth Kingdom is not a term found in the bible - because the Kingdom of God is not a kingdom ruled by some human.