KIND = GENUS

[SkyWriting]

Those evil, evil academians....

Let's get'em!
You bring the torches, I'll get the pitchforks!

A good start!

 

[Kylie]

It's about time. Thanks for the research!

So what about the times when an animal is moved from one genus to another? Does its kind change as well?

 

[Bungle_Bear]

For your edification: KIND = GENUS.

From the online etymology dictionary:

genus (n.)
(Latin plural genera), 1550s as a term of logic, "kind or class of things" (biological sense dates from c. 1600), from Latin genus (genitive generis) "race, stock, kind; family, birth, descent, origin," from suffixed form of PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.

You have the wrong etymology. Since KJV was written in Jacobean English as the first language, the Latin word genus should be derived from English kind. Your argument is, therefore, circular.

 

[inquiring mind]

So what about the times when an animal is moved from one genus to another? Does its kind change as well?

I guess word gurus (etymology dictionaries that is) are only as good at defining ‘kind’ as scientists are at ‘genus.’

 

[Kylie]

I guess word gurus (etymology dictionaries that is) are only as good at defining ‘kind’ as scientists are at ‘genus.’

If it's an etymology dictionary, then wouldn't it describing how the word originated and not necessarily how the word is used today? Scientists, on the other hand, try to have a clear and unambiguous definition as much as is practicable.

 

[inquiring mind]

If it's an etymology dictionary, then wouldn't it describing how the word originated and not necessarily how the word is used today? Scientists, on the other hand, try to have a clear and unambiguous definition as much as is practicable.

I see the point you’re making… but it’s sort of like an article I’ve previously referred to on how early Bible commentators originally referred to genus and even species as ‘kind,’ with fixity of species clearly meaning fixity of biblical kinds. Then scientists changed the meaning of species to a more specific biological term (which is still not always clear – evidenced by your “if it changed” question), and made the church’s use of fixity of species (kinds) look ignorant, because the meaning of the term was changed.

 

[Speedwell]

I see the point you’re making… but it’s sort of like an article I’ve previously referred to on how early Bible commentators originally referred to genus and even species as ‘kind,’ with fixity of species clearly meaning fixity of biblical kinds. Then scientists changed the meaning of species to a more specific biological term (which is still not always clear – evidenced by your “if it changed” question), and made the church’s use of fixity of species (kinds) look ignorant, because the meaning of the term was changed.

"Speciation" is sometimes unclear because it amounts to putting a hard, arbitrary line on what amounts to a continuum. When population begins to evolve away from its parent species (through being geographically isolated in a new environment, for instance) the process is very gradual. A traditional indication of separate species is lack of interfertility. But as the population evolves, at least partial interfertility is likely to last for a long time. Where do you draw the line? It's like a tree: when does a twig become a branch? Any rules we make up to decide are just rules we make up and they have no effect on the twig, branch or populations of living creatures at all.

 

[SkyWriting]

So what about the times when an animal is moved from one genus to another? Does its kind change as well?

When you make up the classes of critters, walls form in the woods to keep them seperate. In order for something to change, they send out teams of PHD's to tear down the walls and physically move the critters to the other side of the walls. It uses up 80% of US brick production, but it's worth it to avoid changing the kids science books too often.

"Kinds" don't get to change, becasue they are mentioned in the Bible and that goes without saying the uproar that might cause if attempted. The PHds would get their heads thumped by Bible scholors.

 

[SkyWriting]

You have the wrong etymology. Since KJV was written in Jacobean English as the first language, the Latin word genus should be derived from English kind. Your argument is, therefore, circular.

Like a saints halo.

(He wasn't Arguing.)

 

[Brightmoon]

When you make up the classes of critters, walls form in the woods to keep them seperate. In order for something to change, they send out teams of PHD's to tear down the walls and physically move the critters to the other side of the walls. It uses up 80% of US brick production, but it's worth it to avoid changing the kids science books too often.

"Kinds" don't get to change, becasue they are mentioned in the Bible and that goes without saying the uproar that might cause if attempted. The PHds would get their heads thumped by Bible scholors.

. You stated that Kinds don’t change so for people who actually examine living or fossil lineages , kinds don’t exist . Which is one reason why scientists don’t use the term. By the way Species is the only real division as genus is just a bunch of closely related species . any term above that like family or kingdom just adds in the more distant relatives . That whole when-do-twigs-become-branches thing is exactly why Species is so hard to define in some cases. For example are lions and tigers separate twigs or are they branches . Lions and tigers can produce healthy offspring even though they’re infertile . To use the analogy they’re twigs well on their way to being branches. They once were an interbreeding population that split due to environmental differences, (lions live in savanna and tigers live in thick vegetation/ jungle )

 

[miknik5]

Actually, in the Bible. Producing seed according to its kind (or likeness) has a deeper meaning than what they outwardly look like

 

[miknik5]

Anyone know where AV is?

 

[tyke]

Anyone know where AV is?

He posted yesterday on another Christian discussion site.

 

[miknik5]

He posted yesterday on another Christian discussion site.

Would you be willing to supply the name of that site?

 

[tyke]

He posted in the Evolution/Creation section of CARM - but don't tell anyone else!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

For your edification: KIND = GENUS.
...

Oh.... at first I read "KIND = GEN I US/ GENIUS" ..... and was hopeful ... or wondering....

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Better yet, quit acting like you don't know what a kind is.

hahaha, a KIND GENIUS ?!

 

[miknik5]

He posted in the Evolution/Creation section of CARM - but don't tell anyone else!

What’s CARM.

 

[Speedwell]

What’s CARM.

Christian Apologetics Research Ministry

 

[miknik5]

Christian Apologetics Research Ministry

Thanks. Did he get reported for something? Is that why he hasn’t been seen since November 9th?