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Featured Justification by Faith & Works

Discussion in 'Denomination Specific Theology' started by bobk, Jan 22, 2019.

  1. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Do you mean "no" as meaning you are not a Free Mason, or do you mean "no" as meaning you disagree with me?

    Anyways, logic dictates that if you have a problem with something, you speak against it; And if you don't have a problem with something, you will defend it in some way.

    Again, why would you appear to defend the Free Masons organization by your suggesting I have a problem with our founding fathers in being Masons?

    Now, my opinion about the founding fathers and our nation is complex. I am commanded to obey my government as long as it does not conflict with God's laws (See Romans 13). I am also commanded not to speak evil of my leaders according to Acts of the Apostles 23:5.

    This does not mean I cannot speak out against a religious organization that holds to a certain set of beliefs that are false like the Free Masonry religion. I see it as a separate entity from the actual person involved. For I strive to attack the belief and not the person.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
  2. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I mean, even of Salvation Army was founded by a Freemason, it still does a lot of good charity work. Many good charitable people, Christian's and otherwise, volunteer to the Salvation Army in order to help others. How is that a bad thing? The organization itself is a vessel for good works and charity.
     
  3. Zetetica

    Zetetica Well-Known Member

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    For me, works don’t justify, Christ is my justification.
     
  4. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Even actors who are non-Christian can do great charitable works. It doesn't mean anything unless they are working by the power of Christ moving in them. For there is none good but God.
     
  5. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    James says otherwise.

    "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).
     
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  6. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Surely you can agree that a Christian can volunteer their time working for the Salvation Army and that helping others through this organization is a good thing in the sight of God and that God would accept such works of charity done in His name.
     
  7. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    First of all I am not nor do I defend free masonry. Like their buildings though. My 'no' meant no your interpretation of what I said was wrong.

    As for your quote, you are hypocritical attacking one institution while redefined what is good for one and what is evil in another to suit your own purposes. That was the result of original sin. You have merely avoiding lumping one in with another built by the same masonic principles.
     
  8. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Only if they are ignorant of their dark involvement with Free Masonry.... "yes." But if they were to discover the dark things of Free Masonry like I have and they just then turned a blind eye and continued to work with this organization knowing that it is tied to an organization that partakes of dark spiritual practices, I would say.... "no." Their charitable work would not count then because they have polluted the pond.
     
  9. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Try looking into some Ex Free Masons testimonies (Who are now Christian) and see what they have to say about this particular religion. Only then will you be able to understand where I am coming from. If not, you are going to act like you know about a particular thing (when you really do not). So when you have done some investigation on Free Masonry by looking at some ex Free Masons who are now Christian, than please get back to me.

    Thank you;
    And may the Lord Jesus Christ bless you.

    Side Note:

    Oh, and my grandfather used to be a Free Mason, too.
     
  10. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    That has nothing to do with your hypocrisy.
     
  11. SpiritSong

    SpiritSong The LORD is my Shepherd Supporter

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    I'm Methodist and our local church does. I assume Methodists in general do too, but that is just an assumption. I am not sure. However, salvation is by faith, works are mentioned in the book of James as advisable, for lack of a better word.
     
  12. marineimaging

    marineimaging Texas Baptist now living in Colorado

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    I really don't want to get off subject but my brother in law was a Mason and heavily involved as a leader in the community..., until one day he realized how he had allowed himself to be slowly led away. My grandfather was until the day he died. Funny but neither of them ever asked me to join.
     
  13. marineimaging

    marineimaging Texas Baptist now living in Colorado

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    I know most have been covered but Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Seventh-Day Adventists, the Church of Christ adherents, Roman Catholics, Eastern and Russian Orthodox members, Lutherans, and many others all include something that needs to be accomplished or is necessary for salvation, whether it's baptism, the sacraments, or joining their particular organization and fulfilling their requirements. The only requirement is to repent and accept Jesus as one's Lord and Savior. These are not deeds but are in the heart and require no physical activity to be accepted by our Father in heaven. The other deeds we do are the ones we do because he has accepted us, not in order to be accepted by Jesus.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
  14. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Not quite..,.


    Mark 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
     
  15. marineimaging

    marineimaging Texas Baptist now living in Colorado

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    You are right - repenting and accepting.
     
  16. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Justification by faith is one element being " pronounced as righteous".
    Works is another element the "fruit of the Spirit". You can not have one without the other. The challenge is not to mix the two as rivals but compliment them as one.
     
  17. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    What hypocrisy are you talking about? Please enlighten me.
     
  18. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Justifying a nation while condemning an organization, both connected to the same thing you oppose. Self determining what is good and evil to suit your purposes. part of the original sin.
     
  19. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    I remember when I first became a Christian and I read a book that said a similar thing. They attempted to make Christianity different from other religions by saying that it is repentance and belief in Christ to be saved. At the time, I did not really let that sink in what they meant. I was a new wet behind the ears Christian who did not really read my Bible as much. It was only when I renewed my faith in the Lord many years later that I started to study the Scriptures and get away from what popular Christianity taught. For God's Word is not taught in the wisdom of men. I discovered that the difference between the truth and other religions is that:

    (a) The Bible is the only holy book that can be proven to divine in origin unlike other religions and their holy books or holy writings.
    (b) Many religions try to attack the Bible or add their own spin to the Bible by add another holy book, or set of traditions, or visions, etc.
    (c) Jesus is the only prophet to die for your sins. No other religious leader died for your sins besides Jesus.
    (d) Most of your religions make room and or allowance for sin in some way.
    (e) Even the professing majority of Sola Scriptura Bible believing churches believe that you can sin and still be saved on some level that all you need is a belief on Jesus to be saved (or repentance and a belief on Jesus).​

    Without holiness or good works, the alternative is sin and evil. When we say that holiness and good works are not an essential part of the faith after being saved by God's grace through faith in Christ, we are admitting on some level that we can sin and still be saved in some way. For if we say works are not necessary for salvation in any way, then we can say that we can do evil and or sin and still be saved. But if that is the case, then wouldn't God have to agree with our plan of salvation that makes for an allowance for sin? Would not God have to agree with sin order for this kind of plan of salvation to work? That is why the belief alone type version of Christianity does not work. God is good; And His people are good, too. Yes, there is God's grace, but His grace is not a license to sin, but it is a means to overcome sin in this life.
     
  20. Yarddog

    Yarddog Senior Contributor Supporter

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    The works which the Catholic Church is speaking of are those of Jesus Christ.
     
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