Justification by Faith & Works

[BobRyan]

Church of Christ and Charismatics are doctrines that include works

like this?

James 2
“And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness,” and he was called the friend of God. 24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

or like this?

Rom 2
13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

or like this?

Matt 7
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

Or like this?

2 Cor 5
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

 

[timothyu]

We should, from a heart of love, WANT to do good works after we are saved, but they are not required in order to stay saved.

What about Jesus' two direct commandments? Perhaps the gospel of FOX news these days which would call any sort of social justice 'works' would be a better platform for those seeking salvation without change nor deeds to identify that change, preferring instead blind allegiance to some worldly institution or concept.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No Sir. Works are NOT part of the salvation process either before, or after being saved.

We should, from a heart of love, WANT to do good works after we are saved, but they are not required in order to stay saved.

But what you say here does not line up with the words of Jesus Christ. For it is written:

25 "And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live." (Luke 10:25-28).​

Notice Jesus's response. He did not give a response that you would. Jesus did not say, "Wrong lawyer!" "You cannot do anything to be saved."

Jesus actually agreed with the lawyer to love God and to love his neighbor as a part of inheriting eternal life. Jesus said, "THIS DO, and YOU SHALL LIVE." Yet, your reply would not be like Jesus's reply here.

We are told to imitate Christ in Scripture.

But in this instance (that does not deal with His being God but it deals with Him giving us a teaching on eternal life) you cannot teach or say.

 

[anna ~ grace]

Just curious, are there any Christian denominations that believe in justification by faith & works other than the Catholic church?

Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy, and the Assyrian Church of the East. Some Mennonites may also profess something close to this.

 

[Major1]

But what you say here does not line up with the words of Jesus Christ. For it is written:

25 "And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live." (Luke 10:25-28).​

Notice Jesus's response. He did not give a response that you would. Jesus did not say, "Wrong lawyer!" "You cannot do anything to be saved."

Jesus actually agreed with the lawyer to love God and to love his neighbor as a part of inheriting eternal life. Jesus said, "THIS DO, and YOU SHALL LIVE." Yet, your reply would not be like Jesus's reply here.

We are told to imitate Christ in Scripture.

But in this instance (that does not deal with His being God but it deals with Him giving us a teaching on eternal life) you cannot teach or say.

You are working to make something say what you have already decided what you want to believe. The Scriptures DO NOT IN ANY WAY say that works must be added to faith in order to be saved.

The man in the parable was a "lawyer" in the sense that he was an INTERPRETER of the Mosaic Law. Notice the words in verse #25...…."stood up and TEMPTED Him".

This took place before Jesus died on the cross. So does it men that "THOU SHALT LIVE"
by keeping the Law????? YES! But if you say that you or anyone else can keep the Law then I must tell you that God contradicts you completely.

It is not the hearers of the Law that are justified, but the doers of the Law.
That is because good woks come AFTER salvation and not a peart of salvation.

Galatians 2:16...………
"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."

Romans 8:3-4...…….
"For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

If the lawyer had been honest he would have said...………
"Master, I have really tried to love God with all my heart, but I just can not do it. I have failed so how do I get eternal life"???????

But instead of being honest, he adopted this evasive method and said...….
"And who is my neighbor" in verse #29.

All of that leads to Jesus giving the parable of the Good Samaritan in verses #30-32.

Open your Bible and verify what I am saying to you.....PLEASE.

 

[Major1]

What about Jesus' two direct commandments? Perhaps the gospel of FOX news these days which would call any sort of social justice 'works' would be a better platform for those seeking salvation without change nor deeds to identify that change, preferring instead blind allegiance to some worldly institution or concept.

I can not and do not know about FOX news and really do not care. What I do know is that the Scriptures tell me that our salvation is only found by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

There is nothing that we can do to be saved except believe upon Christ. AFTER that, we should then have the heart to do woks for others so as to show the love of God which now lives in us AFTER we are saved.

 

[Major1]

Not true. They professed to do works in Christ's name. They believed in Jesus to do good works for Him. Jesus says, "He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth." (Luke 11:23). These believers were with Jesus enough to gather with Him to do good works in His name. But they did not truly know Jesus ever because the gospel they always had was one that made for an allowance for sin or iniquity. For Jesus said to these believers to depart from Him because they WORKED INIQUITY. Iniquity is sin. So they NEVER KNEW Jesus because their gospel was one that justified sin always.

We also have to consider that Matthew 7 is not teaching an exhaustive truth on salvation, either. That there are other parts of the Bible that fill in the gaps on this topic. So the "I never knew" is not proof that a believer cannot fall away. That would be like claiming one scene in a movie is the entire sum total of the film when it is not.

As for the Parable of the Prodigal Son:

Well, sons can die. Dead sons do not come to the dinner table to eat and to play in the park. They might still be regarded as a son, but they cannot partake in the family like they did when they were alive. Please read Luke 15 again. It says very clearly that when he returned home to his father, and he said he was sorry to his father, that is when his father had said to his son that he was "dead" and that he is "alive AGAIN." To seek forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ is repentance. That is what this parable is all about. For it is a third parable in a series of three back to back parables with the theme of the parables being "repentance" (i.e. Repentance meaning to seek forgiveness by way of prayer to the Lord Jesus Christ). For Jesus is the everlasting father because all faithful believers will be resurrected one day by the power Christ's resurrection.

YES.....just like today people profess to know God. They say this and they say that but the bottom line friend are the words of Jesus Christ who said...…………..
'DEPART FROM ME, I NEVER KNEW YOU"

What part of "I NEVER KNEW YOU" is giving you the problem of understanding???

Those words can not be explained away or twisted so as to make something YOU believe come true.

Matthew 7:22-23 is not referring to born again believers who lost their salvation because they did not do good works. That is heresy my friend and it is just not what those Scriptures say.

The name of Christ is on the lips of many people who are leaders in cults and "isms" and religious gatherings but it is not what is on our lips but instead what is in our hearts.

Salvation is NOT about professing but instead it is all about POSSEING!

"I NEVER KNEW YOU" was spoken to those who were NEVER SAVED TO BEGIN WITH or Jesus would never have said that to begin with.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Just curious, are there any Christian denominations that believe in justification by faith & works other than the Catholic church?

Yes.

1. Christ’s Sanctified Holy Church: Christ's Sanctified Holy Church-Holiness unto the Lord
2. International Fellowship of Bible Churches International Fellowship of Bible Churches

 

[Bible Highlighter]

YES.....just like today people profess to know God. They say this and they say that but the bottom line friend are the words of Jesus Christ who said...…………..
'DEPART FROM ME, I NEVER KNEW YOU"

What part of "I NEVER KNEW YOU" is giving you the problem of understanding???

Those words can not be explained away or twisted so as to make something YOU believe come true.

Matthew 7:22-23 is not referring to born again believers who lost their salvation because they did not do good works. That is heresy my friend and it is just not what those Scriptures say.

The name of Christ is on the lips of many people who are leaders in cults and "isms" and religious gatherings but it is not what is on our lips but instead what is in our hearts.

Salvation is NOT about professing but instead it is all about POSSEING!

"I NEVER KNEW YOU" was spoken to those who were NEVER SAVED TO BEGIN WITH or Jesus would never have said that to begin with.

Right, and now does a person have the assurance that they know the Lord?

3 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
(1 John 2:3-4).​

In other words, the Bible says that you have to keep His commandments to show that you actually know the Lord.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You are working to make something say what you have already decided what you want to believe. The Scriptures DO NOT IN ANY WAY say that works must be added to faith in order to be saved.

Yes, the Scriptures do say that works of faith are a part of our faith (James 2:18), and they play a part in our salvation. How so? James 2:24 says we are justified by works and not by faith alone. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says a belief in the truth, and Sanctification is a part of salvation. Such verses would not exist in the Scriptures if the Bible said otherwise.

The man in the parable was a "lawyer" in the sense that he was an INTERPRETER of the Mosaic Law. Notice the words in verse #25...…."stood up and TEMPTED Him".

This took place before Jesus died on the cross. So does it men that "THOU SHALT LIVE"
by keeping the Law????? YES! But if you say that you or anyone else can keep the Law then I must tell you that God contradicts you completely.

It is not the hearers of the Law that are justified, but the doers of the Law.
That is because good woks come AFTER salvation and not a peart of salvation.

What you say here is not in line with what Jesus actually said. He said, "THIS DO, and YOU SHALL LIVE." I am pretty sure that Jesus was referring to eternal life in Luke 10:25-28 because the lawyer asks Jesus what must he do to inherit eternal life. When the lawyer says that the Scriptures tell him that the answer to this question is to love God, and to love his neighbor, Jesus did not correct the lawyer and tell him he was wrong. He said that he was "correct."

You say that works follow salvation but they are not a part of salvation. You are contradicting yourself and you are putting forth a double message. If works ALWAYS follows salvation, then works do play a part in the salvation process. If you believe works do not play a part in the salvation process, then you believe works do not have to follow a saving faith in Jesus Christ.

Galatians 2:16...………
"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."

Right, this is talking about "Works Alone Salvationism" without God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ. How so? Just read the context. It is talking about "Circumcision Salvationism" (Which is Works Alone Salvationism).

For Galatians 2:3 says, “But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:”

In other words, Paul was fighting against those Jews who were trying to deceive certain Christians that they had to FIRST be circumcised in order to be saved. Hence, why Paul said that they had to be saved by faith in Jesus Christ. For we are initially and ultimately saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus. However, Paul is not discounting the necessity of works of faith that follow after believing in Jesus Christ as one's Savior. This is evident if you were to read Romans 6, Romans 8:1, Romans 8:3-4, and Romans 8:13.

Romans 8:3-4...…….
"For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

Right, this passage actually destroys Belief Alone-ism. It says that the righteousness of the Law (Which is the Moral Law, see Romans 13:8-10) is to be FULFILLED in us, who walk NOT AFTER THE FLESH (sin), but after the Spirit. Romans 8:13 sums it up. It says if you live after the flesh, you will die, but if you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you shall live. This lines up with the verse in James that says,

"Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him." (James 1:12).

If the lawyer had been honest he would have said...………
"Master, I have really tried to love God with all my heart, but I just can not do it. I have failed so how do I get eternal life"???????

But instead of being honest, he adopted this evasive method and said...….
"And who is my neighbor" in verse #29.

All of that leads to Jesus giving the parable of the Good Samaritan in verses #30-32.

Open your Bible and verify what I am saying to you.....PLEASE.

You are claiming to act like you know Luke 10:25-32, but it in no way supports your belief in Belief Alone-ism in any way. On the contrary, the parable was a point in how the lawyer was to love his neighbor and it was not a point that he should not love him and he should just simply give up in loving God and others and just believe in Jesus. This is not the conclusion that Jesus gave involving the lawyer but it is merely in your own imagination.

Yes, we cannot be saved without FIRST believing in Jesus as our Savior, but we also need to love God and to love our neighbor as a part of inheriting eternal life. Jesus said, "THIS DO, and YOU SHALL LIVE." Jesus is talking in spiritual terms here. A person will live spiritually by loving God and loving their neighbor. If a person truly loves God, they will accept the gospel and believe in Jesus as their Savior. If they truly love God, they will love their neighbor. This involves helping the poor (Which is shown to us in the Parable of the Good Samaritan). Not helping the poor by any believer is a loss of salvation. For in Matthew 25:31-46, we learn that those who did not help the poor in this life were cast into everlasting fire. So yeah. It is more than just believing in Jesus as your Savior.

 

[timothyu]

There is nothing that we can do to be saved except believe upon Christ.

..which means upon His Gospel of the Kingdom.

 

[Major1]

..which means upon His Gospel of the Kingdom.

The gospel of the kingdom is the good-news message of repentance, redemption, and restoration offered by God to all who will receive Christ. Those who accept this offer become part of His eternal kingdom. Those who choose to remain in their sin cannot be a part of this kingdom.

Although grace makes this offer available to anyone who will receive it, Jesus warned that it would be very difficult to enter His kingdom and few would do so.

 

[BobRyan]

Church of Christ and Charismatics are doctrines that include works

like this?

James 2
“And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness,” and he was called the friend of God. 24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

or like this?

Rom 2
13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

or like this?

Matt 7
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

Or like this?

2 Cor 5
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

=================

Choose the Bible.

 

[Major1]

Yes, the Scriptures do say that works of faith are a part of our faith (James 2:18), and they play a part in our salvation. How so? James 2:24 says we are justified by works and not by faith alone. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says a belief in the truth, and Sanctification is a part of salvation. Such verses would not exist in the Scriptures if the Bible said otherwise.



What you say here is not in line with what Jesus actually said. He said, "THIS DO, and YOU SHALL LIVE." I am pretty sure that Jesus was referring to eternal life in Luke 10:25-28 because the lawyer asks Jesus what must he do to inherit eternal life. When the lawyer says that the Scriptures tell him that the answer to this question is to love God, and to love his neighbor, Jesus did not correct the lawyer and tell him he was wrong. He said that he was "correct."

You say that works follow salvation but they are not a part of salvation. You are contradicting yourself and you are putting forth a double message. If works ALWAYS follows salvation, then works do play a part in the salvation process. If you believe works do not play a part in the salvation process, then you believe works do not have to follow a saving faith in Jesus Christ.



Right, this is talking about "Works Alone Salvationism" without God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ. How so? Just read the context. It is talking about "Circumcision Salvationism" (Which is Works Alone Salvationism).

For Galatians 2:3 says, “But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:”

In other words, Paul was fighting against those Jews who were trying to deceive certain Christians that they had to FIRST be circumcised in order to be saved. Hence, why Paul said that they had to be saved by faith in Jesus Christ. For we are initially and ultimately saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus. However, Paul is not discounting the necessity of works of faith that follow after believing in Jesus Christ as one's Savior. This is evident if you were to read Romans 6, Romans 8:1, Romans 8:3-4, and Romans 8:13.



Right, this passage actually destroys Belief Alone-ism. It says that the righteousness of the Law (Which is the Moral Law, see Romans 13:8-10) is to be FULFILLED in us, who walk NOT AFTER THE FLESH (sin), but after the Spirit. Romans 8:13 sums it up. It says if you live after the flesh, you will die, but if you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you shall live. This lines up with the verse in James that says,

"Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him." (James 1:12).



You are claiming to act like you know Luke 10:25-32, but it in no way supports your belief in Belief Alone-ism in any way. On the contrary, the parable was a point in how the lawyer was to love his neighbor and it was not a point that he should not love him and he should just simply give up in loving God and others and just believe in Jesus. This is not the conclusion that Jesus gave involving the lawyer but it is merely in your own imagination.

Yes, we cannot be saved without FIRST believing in Jesus as our Savior, but we also need to love God and to love our neighbor as a part of inheriting eternal life. Jesus said, "THIS DO, and YOU SHALL LIVE." Jesus is talking in spiritual terms here. A person will live spiritually by loving God and loving their neighbor. If a person truly loves God, they will accept the gospel and believe in Jesus as their Savior. If they truly love God, they will love their neighbor. This involves helping the poor (Which is shown to us in the Parable of the Good Samaritan). Not helping the poor by any believer is a loss of salvation. For in Matthew 25:31-46, we learn that those who did not help the poor in this life were cast into everlasting fire. So yeah. It is more than just believing in Jesus as your Savior.

No my brother the Scriptures DO NOT say that works play a part of our salvation.

You do not understand James teaching at all. James gave a very specific teaching that so-called-"faith" which does not result in good works is just that: phony. At no point does James require works to earn salvation, or to keep it. Rather, James points out that what we do is the result of what we truly believe. Simply claiming to have faith in Christ is meaningless; saving faith is a faith which results in action.

I encourage you to do some real Bible study homework brother.
There is in Paul no two-stage doctrine of salvation, wherein one is initially justified sola gratia, sola fide and finally saved through faith and works. The salvation in view here is present. The Thessalonians are not said to be beloved of the Lord because they have been obedient. God is not said to have chosen them (either from the beginning or to be first fruits) on the basis of anything in them or done by them.

Second, sanctification is not good works. Justification and sanctification (or collectively, salvation) produces good works or better, God the Spirit graciously produces good works in those whom Christ as justified and whom the Spirit is sanctifying. He is the Reformed definition of sanctification from the Westminster Shorter Catechism:

In the case of Titus, it was demanded as a matter of right and as obligatory upon him, and Paul resisted the principle as dangerous. In the case of Timothy, it was a voluntary compliance on his part with the usual customs of the Jews, where it was not pressed as a matter of obligation, and where it would not be understood as indispensable to salvation.

The apostle Paul combatted those who taught a false gospel in Galatians 1:6–9: “I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—which is really no gospel at all."

Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!

As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!” At issue in the Galatian churches was the teaching that believers in Christ must follow the Old Testament Law (specifically concerning circumcision) in order to be saved. Paul’s unequivocal pronouncement is that a “gospel” of grace plus works is false.

 

[Southernscotty]

like this?

James 2
“And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness,” and he was called the friend of God. 24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

or like this?

Rom 2
13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

or like this?

Matt 7
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

Or like this?

2 Cor 5
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

=================

Choose the Bible.

Friend those works come with our faith. It is something that a christian does like a fish breathing under water, Not that WE have too, But because WE want too :]

 

[Major1]

Right, and now does a person have the assurance that they know the Lord?

3 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
(1 John 2:3-4).​

In other words, the Bible says that you have to keep His commandments to show that you actually know the Lord.

NOPE!

YOU are wanting 1 John 2:3-6 to say that obeying his commands is necessary to know God therefore keeping the 10 Commandments is necessary for salvation. A superficial reading may lead to this conclusion.

In 1 John 3:22-24, it tells us exactly which commands John is referring to. His command is to believe and love one another. Give this scripture to any cultist who insists on “keeping the commandments” (1 John 3:22-24). This is the command we must obey. God never commands us to obey the 10 Commandments. The command we must obey to be saved is the command to believe in Jesus. Surely this is not burdensome. The law of the OT was a bondage that could not save

The same argument holds for John 15:10.

 

[BobRyan]

Church of Christ and Charismatics are doctrines that include works

like this?

James 2
“And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness,” and he was called the friend of God. 24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

or like this?

Rom 2
13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

or like this?

Matt 7
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

Or like this?

2 Cor 5
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

=================

Choose the Bible.

Friend those works come with our faith. It is something that a christian does like a fish breathing under water, Not that WE have too, But because WE want too :]

Indeed they do - the good tree will produce good fruit. Matthew 7.

The bad tree does not "produce good fruit to become a good tree"

 

[Major1]

like this?

James 2
“And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness,” and he was called the friend of God. 24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

or like this?

Rom 2
13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

or like this?

Matt 7
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

Or like this?

2 Cor 5
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

=================

Choose the Bible.



Indeed they do - the good tree will produce good fruit. Matthew 7.

The bad tree does not "produce good fruit to become a good tree"

Galatians 2:21...…….
"I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain".

Bless your heart Bob. I truly hate to see those who are so intelligent and able to read and learn, be so misguided and confused over such a simple Bible teaching as salvation.

The message of all religions is how do we get to heaven or the afterlife.

It does not matter what you think or believe or say, or you own denominational teaching, it all comes down to one of two things...……...
1). Human Achievement.
2). Divine Accomplishment.

Salvation is either...…"DOING, or it is DONE".

Ephesians 2:8-9 is either Gods Word or you are rejecting it and believinbg your denominational teaching instead. "For by GRACE are ye save, through FAITH AND NOT OF YOURSELVE, lest any man boast."

How could God have worded that so that it would have been easier to understand than the words He actually used.

 

[thecolorsblend]

Just curious, are there any Christian denominations that believe in justification by faith & works other than the Catholic church?

"Works," meaning obedience to God and good deeds.

The Catholic Church does not teach what you have articulated in the above posts.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Just curious, are there any Christian denominations that believe in justification by faith & works other than the Catholic church?

The catholic church believes in justification by faith only.