Justification by Faith & Works

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes, I am a speed reader

Well, I think you need to slow down so you can comprehend more fully in what is being written, friend.

 

[Mhiriam]

So you are partly helping Jesus, He can't save you entirely on the cross by himself?
Walking in the light is part of being converted, it's not actually what saves you. That's all Jesus.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So you are partly helping Jesus, He can't save you entirely on the cross by himself?
Walking in the light is part of being converted, it's not actually what saves you. That's all Jesus.

No. While we are born again, our free will is not taken away. Otherwise every Christian would obey perfectly.

Also....

We need to endure in our faith to continue to be saved:

"But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;" Hebrews 3:13-14.

"Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him." James 1:12.

"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Matthew 24:13.

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." Revelation 2:10.

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Revelation 2:7.

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." Revelation 2:11.

"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." Revelation 3:5.

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." Jude 1:21.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So you are partly helping Jesus, He can't save you entirely on the cross by himself?
Walking in the light is part of being converted, it's not actually what saves you. That's all Jesus.

In addition:

Who ultimately does the "good work" in a believer's life?

Is it God?
Or is it the believer?

Well, Scripture tells us that God (Christ) is the One who ultimately does the work within a believer.

Philippians 1:6
Philippians 1:11
Philippians 2:13
Philippians 4:13
1 Corinthians 15:10
Hebrews 12:1-2
Hebrews 13:21
Isaiah 26:12
1 John 4:12
Galatians 5:22-24 (cf. Matthew 7:16-18, Matthew 19:17)
John 15:5
Ezekiel 36:26-27

For that is why the 24 elders cast their crowns down before Jesus (Revelation 4:10). For the crowns they received for their good work was all the result of Christ working in them.

Yeah, but doesn't a believer do the work, too? Now, yes, it is true; A believer is created unto Christ Jesus for good works (Ephesians 2:10); And a believer is indeed held accountable by their "good works" here upon this Earth at a Judgment. But we must also realize that true believers are not ultimately doing these "good works" alone or of their own power, though. For in 1 Corinthians 15:10 Paul said that he labored more than all of his brethren, yet he said it was not him that labored but it was the grace of God that was within him. So true believer's are just choosing to allow God's "good work" to flow within them or not.

So no. I do not believe in Man Directed Works Alone Salvationism. I believe if someone truly has accepted the LORD and Christ lives within them, then good fruit (And not bad fruit) will be evident in their life to prove that the One who is salvation itself abides within them (1 John 5:12).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So you are partly helping Jesus, He can't save you entirely on the cross by himself?
Walking in the light is part of being converted, it's not actually what saves you. That's all Jesus.

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" (Hebrews 5:9).

Christ is the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him!!!!

That's because one's "works of faith" is a part of one's "faith" (See James 2:18).

 

[Mhiriam]

Yes, if you deny Jesus his death no longer covers your sin. The one who overcomes holds their faith that Jesus died to save them.
Romans 3:22-24
Righteousness is through faith.

 

[Mhiriam]

So no. I do not believe in Man Directed Works Alone Salvationism. I believe if someone truly has accepted the LORD and Christ lives within them, then good fruit (And not bad fruit) will be evident in their life to prove that the One who is salvation itself abides within them

Yay! Then we agree - you are not contributing, it the Lord in you, through His work.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes, if you deny Jesus his death no longer covers your sin. The one who overcomes holds their faith that Jesus died to save them.
Romans 3:22-24
Righteousness is through faith.

Yes, that is one part of salvation, and it is one of the most important ones. Believing in Jesus as our Savior by faith is how we are initially and ultimately saved; But "works of faith" also play a part in the salvation process, as well. Paul himself said that you can deny God by a lack of works (Titus 1:16). Paul says if any man does not agree with the words of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he know nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). James says God resists the proud and he gives grace to the humble. Jesus Himself said if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (See Matthew 19:17-19). James says faith without works is dead (James 2:17). For even the demons believe and tremble.

 

[Mhiriam]

I agree - we are ultimately and only saved by faith, then works come as an outpouring of his love, not by some virtue of our own.
Grace to the humble - God shows grace to the humble. Grace is not deserved.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yay! Then we agree - you are not contributing, it the Lord in you, through His work.

While I would like to agree, I don't think you truly agree.
I believe a Christian will understand that after we are saved by God's grace through faith, works of faith also play a part in the salvation process. These are the works of the Lord done through the believer. I am not sure you believe that these works are essential for salvation because you said a moment ago that works are not necessary for salvation.

Also, we are not forced against our will by God doing the good work through us. We do have to cooperate with God in the work He desires to do within us. Otherwise, we would see Christians all obeying perfectly.

 

[timothyu]

This would not be the picking up of pitchforks, etc.

That was in reference to their retaliation to my statement.

 

[Mhiriam]

I believe salvation results in works, which is a continuance of salvation, but not by my own virtue so I could boast in my own power.
This is getting nowhere, I bow out now.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That was in reference to their retaliation to my statement.

Who retaliated? What statement did you make that made certain individuals retaliate against you?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I believe salvation results in works, which is a continuance of salvation, but not by my own virtue so I could boast in my own power.
This is getting nowhere, I bow out now.

Peace and blessings to you in the Lord.

 

[timothyu]

Actually, Christ is the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him

Obedience. His commandment states two works, putting the will of God before the will of man and loving all neighbours as self? Does that not come after the works of repentance, rejecting the will of man over the will of God? Is not the choice to do so a work, a decision we make having understood the division between the world of man and the Kingdom.,

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Obedience. His commandment states two works, putting the will of God before the will of man and loving all neighbours as self? Does that not come after the works of repentance, rejecting the will of man over the will of God? Is not the choice to do so a work, a decision we make having understood the division between the world of man and the Kingdom.,

What part of the Bible leads you to that conclusion?

 

[Oldmantook]

They appear to be Charismatic.
As I stated before, I believe most of these churches I have investigated before are not operating by the gifts according to Scripture correctly.
They appear to be in favor of private tongue speaking (Which I don't believe is biblical). They are also liberal on their stand on Pacifism as taught in the New Testament and even can encourage a person in their duty to military service.

Having pastored in the Missionary Church, I can assure you they are not Charismatic. If I remember correctly they have Mennonite roots.

 

[marineimaging]

While sin can be forgiven if we seek forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ, if we do not forsake sin and strive to overcome it, we are not really sorry over our sin and truly repenting. Think of it like a man who says he says sorry to his wife that he cheats on her, and yet he says he will never stop cheating on her. Do you think she will stay with him long if that was the case? Only if she want to remain in to an unfaithful husband and take the risk of sexual disease if she also chooses to sleep with him. I understand that your statement is what you think Christianity is. But it is not; While we can be forgiven of sin, we have to forsake sin, too (See 1 John 1:9, 1 John 1:7, and Proverbs 28:13). We have to follow and obey Jesus Christ. That is why we are given grace. We are not given grace to keep sinning again and again. It doesn't work like that. While God can most certainly be merciful if we do honestly stumble on occasion, it should not be a daily stumble with no hope of us ever overcoming grievous sin in our life. The Lord Jesus Christ can change and transform our life so as to overcome grievous sin. For Jesus saves not in only in Justification, but in Sanctification, too.

Romans 13:14 says, "But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof."

I understand what you are saying. Understand that we are saying very similar. Nothing I said indicated that I believe we have carte blanc to continue sinning the same sin over and over, however, if you read the difference between and shall be less in heaven vs and shall burn in the lake of fire for eternity you will see that saved sinners are still in heaven. They will be less, but in heaven none the less.

 

[Danthemailman]

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24).

*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.* (Romans 3:24-28)

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If by "works" you mean works of obedience to God then yes on must go on to live an obedient life as stated in this position paper by the Missionary Church, USA.
Position Papers – Missionary Church USA

It was a little confusing on their website to emphasize speaking in tongues on the main page (among the other topics). It should be asked as a question instead of it being made as a statement.

I skimmed their article on this point, so I misunderstood their statement of faith on tongues. So my apologies. They appear to be open to the idea of speaking in tongues, but they do not see it as evidence of the fulness of the Spirit.

Their statement of faith says:

"So while we recognize the gifts of the Holy Spirit as taught in Scripture to be valid gifts for the church today, no particular gift or gifts are the necessary or required evidence of the fullness of the Holy Spirit, nor are they considered as the evidence of Christian maturity."​

Where I disagree with them on is this part:

"Speaking in tongues is referred to in scripture both in corporate and private worship."
​

I believe 1 Corinthians 14 is teaching corporate prayer only and not both corporate and private prayer.

So do they encourage praying in tongues in private? I do not know that answer. If they do, I do not think that is biblical.

They do not believe in Cessationism (like myself), but they appear to be open to being Charismatic but they are not practicing Charimatic church that I am aware of. I am 1% open that I could be wrong about Cessationism (For I do not want to speak against God, just in case I am wrong; But I lean towards Cessationism, because there are many verses that suggest it, and what miracles we see in the churches today is not like what we read about in the early church).

Sorry, I do not mean to be overly critical, it is just that I tend to be more cautious (than accepting) in these last days. For more times than I can count, I have been disappointed by other believers in what they believe, teach and practice. They appear to be a fine church, but I would disagree with them if they encouraged private speaking in tongues.