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Featured Justification by Faith & Works

Discussion in 'Denomination Specific Theology' started by bobk, Jan 22, 2019.

  1. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    It is not a contradiction to obey the laws of the land if they do not conflict with God's laws and yet disagree with government's personal religious affiliation. It is not a contradiction to not speak evil against your leaders and yet speak out against a religious organization that they are a part of. We do not have to mention that they are a part of it. While leaders of various countries can be sinful and be a part of sinful organizations or sinful religions, that does not mean we are to rebel against that government if they are not asking us to break God's commands. It is also not wrong to speak out against sinful religions, either. We do not have to include our leaders in that discussion.

    I am sure if you were born in Islam, the Lord would want you to obey those laws that did not conflict with His commandments. That does not mean you could not speak out against the Muslim religion. It is not impossible to speak only good against the leader of Islam and yet also speak out against the Muslim religion.

    What are you talking about? Are you saying it is wrong to point out false religions? I spoke against Free Masonry. Is this what you mean when I determine what is good and evil? From what you said so far, you do not have a real formulated opinion of Free Masonry. You don't appear to be against or for them. Again, I ask you to investigate this religion.

    Thank you for the false accusation. I will rejoice in God my Savior.
     
  2. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Why not? You are just self justifying one group over another and it appears for your own purposes, not God's.
     
  3. marineimaging

    marineimaging Texas Baptist now living in Colorado

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    And here we have the reason for so many churches called Christian. You will enjoy a following that must have what it must have to feel forgiven and saved. Or not. To repent and accept Jesus as Lord and Savior and I walk in that faith. Praise God. I sin because I am human. There is NO day that I do not sin. And there is nothing I can do to pay for that sin except repent and believe in Christ. That He is not a liar and that to call upon his name is sufficient for my salvation. Your path goes in that direction, mine goes this way. Go in peace and may you be blessed your whole life.
     
  4. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Watching and reading testimonies of ex-Free Masonry members turned Christian is very enlightening. It is a cult that involves doing rituals, etc.
     
  5. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    No. The Bible says not to speak evil of your leaders, that's why (See: Acts of the Apostles 23:5). Do you disagree with that verse? Yet, the Bible also tells us to expose false doctrine. Ephesians 5:11 says have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. So I can speak out against false religions, and I do not have name certain government leaders who were involved in it. Paul says, "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." (Galatians 1:8).
     
  6. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    That is just more self justification used by those who like to use scripture out of context to suit their will, in this case political will. Otherwise you would have no problem condemning the entire self serving ways of man. In context Jesus told us to let them do their thing but not to rebel against them like the zealots were prone to do. We were to live outside their box. The whole point behind the Gospel of the Kingdom.
     
  7. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    While sin can be forgiven if we seek forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ, if we do not forsake sin and strive to overcome it, we are not really sorry over our sin and truly repenting. Think of it like a man who says he says sorry to his wife that he cheats on her, and yet he says he will never stop cheating on her. Do you think she will stay with him long if that was the case? Only if she want to remain in to an unfaithful husband and take the risk of sexual disease if she also chooses to sleep with him. I understand that your statement is what you think Christianity is. But it is not; While we can be forgiven of sin, we have to forsake sin, too (See 1 John 1:9, 1 John 1:7, and Proverbs 28:13). We have to follow and obey Jesus Christ. That is why we are given grace. We are not given grace to keep sinning again and again. It doesn't work like that. While God can most certainly be merciful if we do honestly stumble on occasion, it should not be a daily stumble with no hope of us ever overcoming grievous sin in our life. The Lord Jesus Christ can change and transform our life so as to overcome grievous sin. For Jesus saves not in only in Justification, but in Sanctification, too.

    Romans 13:14 says, "But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof."
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
  8. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    How exactly am I taking that verse out of context?

    Actually, in context, Paul was talking to the high priest in Acts of the Apostles 23:1-5 and the Lord only later talks to Paul in private later on. Jesus was not speaking in Acts of the Apostles 23:5.

    Romans 13 says we are to obey the laws of the land. Jesus says render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's (See Mark 12:17).
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
  9. bcbsr

    bcbsr Newbie

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    In addition to those already mentioned, I would say any denomination or non-denomination denomination (That is, non-denominational churches tend to be a denomination unto themselves), which make salvation out to be contingent upon one's performance or ongoing performance. A litmus test may be where they stand on the issue of eternal security.
     
  10. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Actually, one of the litmus tests the Bible gives us is 1 John 2:3-4. Eternal Security is against that passage because it says you can break God's commandments on some level and not be a liar, etc. Eternal Security Proponents will also say future sin is forgiven you, and yet you have to confess of sin in order to be forgiven of sin (See 1 John 1:9).
     
  11. PaulCyp1

    PaulCyp1 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Well of course Catholics would say that, since they were founded by Jesus Christ, Who taught "It is not those who say "Lord, Lord" who will enter the kingdom, but those who DO the will of My Father". "Do" means "action", otherwise known as "works". Do you really think the Apostles would have been saved if they just sat at home BELIEVING that Jesus was the Messiah, but didn't get out there and DO what He had commanded them to DO?
     
  12. Mhiriam

    Mhiriam New Member

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    Personally, I think I am utterly helpless to contribute in any way to my salvation, that Christ achieved it all on the cross. I think "faith without works is dead" doesn't mean you are in some way partly achieving your own salvation, because then there would be cause to boast in yourself, instead of solely in Christ, but that if you are not driven to obey the Lord out of love then you don't actually have faith.

    PS - I'm not a Freemason
     
  13. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Live in the world but not of it. Stay out of the affairs of man while introducing the affairs of the Kingdom. (religious right now picking up their scythes and pitchforks)
     
  14. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    @PaulCyp1

    Well, I am not Catholic, and yet I believe we are saved by Grace through faith + works of faith because the Bible says so (and not some church). The Scriptures are clear for those who want to see that fact.

    Simply click on the spoiler button to check out the verses:

    After we are saved by God's grace,
    God’s works (done through us) are also required as a part of the Salvation Process:


    (Here are a List of Verses):


    “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

    "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

    "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

    "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, "(1 Timothy 6:3-4).

    "...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).

    "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).

    "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

    "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

    “...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

    “For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).

    "If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).

    "If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

    “If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).

    And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.” (Luke 10:25-28).

    “...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” (Matthew 19:17-19).

    "And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38).

    ”If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:24-26).

    "...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62).

    “Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.” (Matthew 5:8).

    "Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).

    "But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).

    ”And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:12-15).

    "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).

    “For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

    "...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).

    “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12).

    “For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;” (Titus 2:11-12).

    “...And having become servants of God, ye have your fruit unto holiness and the end, everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22).

    ”Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” (Matthew 25:34-40).

    “Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:41-46).

    ”His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:21).

    ”And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

    ”Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation [i.e. as the people of Israel did when they rebelled against him in the desert.”] (Hebrews 3:12-15) (Note: The explanation on verse 15 in brackets is taken from the Living Bible Translation (TLB)).

    ”Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)” (Hebrews 3:10-11).

    ”Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. (Hebrews 4:11).

    “In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

    “He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God” (John 8:47).
     
  15. Mhiriam

    Mhiriam New Member

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    This'll make it easier - everyone here who is a Freemason, please stick your hand up!

    (Sorry, just trying to lighten the atmosphere :) )
     
  16. Mhiriam

    Mhiriam New Member

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    Jason, none of those verses actually state that it is works apart from grace that is salvation, just that if you don't do works you obviously don't have faith. Was Jesus dying on the cross NOT enough to save you, but you have to help God out by saving yourself as well?
     
  17. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    I agree that Christians should not get involved in politics or in world affairs, and they should stick to preaching the gospel and the Word of God. But it is not wrong to expose sin and or false religions, etc. This would not be the picking up of pitchforks, etc. Believers in Christ are actually commanded to non-violence by Jesus and His followers while they are living out their faith here on this Earth.
     
  18. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    I posted those verses a few moments ago. Unless you are a speed reader, that is not enough time to even read them let alone to respond properly to them.
     
  19. Mhiriam

    Mhiriam New Member

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    Yes, I am a speed reader
     
  20. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Actually, walking in the light is a part of Christ's blood cleansing you of all sin (See 1 John 1:7). Actually, Christ is the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him (See Hebrews 5:9).
     
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