Justification by Faith & Works

[Bible Highlighter]

I guess you need steer clear of the principles of your nation also if that is the case.

So you also have no problem with the Free Masons?

Really?! If so, you cannot be serious.
Do even know the darkness behind such an organization?
Please research it.

 

[Albion]

duplicate.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Lets seem them, if that is so.

Okay, first off, look at the YouTube Video in post #10. It shows the Salvation Army giving sign with a Masonic Symbol!!!!

Second, a Masonic website took down the link, but it is still viewable via the internet archives (that captures old website pages). Simply click on the following link:

Famous Masons

Three, you can see William Booth's name in the Masonic Chronicle!!!!!!!!

The Freemason's Chronicle

Four, you can see the little Masonic symbol in this picture frame from the Salvation Army.

How much more evidence do you need?

It's kind of obvious!!!

We live in the internet age!!!!
You cannot hide such things!!!

Again, are you a Free Mason?

 

[timothyu]

So you also have no problem with the Free Masons?

That is not what I said. The founders of your nation were free mason also and the capital full of it's symbolism. so I guess your problem isn't limited to Sally Ann.

 

[Albion]

Your own source says that the three listings are mistakes! That sometimes happens, and anyone can compile a list if they choose to. For some years Neil Armstrong was listed because somebody thought he was a Mason and of course was proud of the fact. But he was not.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Your own source says that the three listings are mistakes! That sometimes happens, and anyone can compile a list if they choose to. For some years Neil Armstrong was listed because somebody thought he was a Mason and of course was proud of the fact. But he was not.

Come on now. They listed it by accident? Seriously? He is listed also in the Free Mason Chronicles by accident? I suppose that picture of him at the Salvation army with the little Masonic symbol is an accident? Oh, and the video with Salvation Army giving with the Masonic sign there was an accident? Masonry is a secret society!!! Do you really expect me to believe such non-sense? Come on now.

Are you a Free Mason?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That is not what I said. The founders of your nation were free mason also and the capital full of it's symbolism. so I guess your problem isn't limited to Sally Ann.

Not seeing the problem with Free Masonry is troubling. Are you a Free Mason?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Alright, I have gotten off topic. My apologies. May folks resume the normal topic conversation.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Church of Christ and Charismatics are doctrines that include works

I don't see "Church of Christ" or the "Church of the Nazarine" type churches as believing that works are a requirement in the salvation process. They state salvation is not of works, and they hold to Wesleyan holiness theology.

It is the conviction a Christian author named Paton who states that those who hold to Wesleyan holiness theology do not believe works play a part in the salvation process.

Click on the link here to check out the article:
faith by works

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Church of Christ and Charismatics are doctrines that include works

As for Charismatic churches:

Well, I believe most of what I have seen in the Charismatic circles is done in error or it is not what the Bible actually teaches. Granted, this does not mean all of them may be doing it wrong. It simply means that within my scope of knowledge, this is what I know. I also currently believe the Bible teaches Cessationism, as well.

Here is a Christian Forums thread I created with some biblical points that support Cessationism (if you are interested).

Cessationism: Tongues, Prophecy, and the Gift of Miracles Have Ceased.

 

[jacks]

It may depend on what one means by "works". If they mean attempts to win salvation through maintaining Jewish laws, then many may not agree with that. However, if they mean the practice of Christian behavior (like James speaks of), then I believe most churches would feel it is necessary.

BTW I believe Paul and James were in complete agreement, but used to term "works" to refer to different things.

 

[Albion]

I don't see "Church of Christ" or the "Church of the Nazarine" type churches as believing that works are a requirement in the salvation process. They state salvation is not of works, and they hold to Wesleyan holiness theology.

I think you're right about this. And that would go for the Disciples as well. So I think we should correct the record for the benefit of our inquirer. The fact is that the Churches of Christ do stress the necessity of works but not as contributing in themselves to salvation. Here is a sentence I took from one local congregations website that I think illustrates the point:

This work of faith is not meritorious, meaning we don't deserve eternal life, nor have we earned it. It cannot get us to heaven apart from Jesus Christ, nor can it make His sacrifice for us unnecessary. These are ways in which our walk of faith cannot save us. But this does not mean our walk of faith is not necessary.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

'The Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)'

They also appear to be one of the most liberal churches here in America. At least according to Gotquestions.org.

Who are the Disciples of Christ, and what do they believe?

According to another source, they appear to be in acceptance of welcoming sexual immorality, too.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It may depend on what one means by "works". If they mean attempts to win salvation through maintaining Jewish laws, then many may not agree with that. However, if they mean the practice of Christian behavior (like James speaks of), then I believe most churches would feel it is necessary.

BTW I believe Paul and James were in complete agreement, but used to term "works" to refer to different things.

I see "works of faith" as a part of one's "faith." For faith without works is dead (James 2:17). In other words, no true faith will be devoid of works and thus is necessary as a part of the salvation process because you cannot have a true faith without works of faith. For it is by faith that we can gain access to the saving grace of God (Which is a free gift). I believe Paul was speaking against "Works Alone Salvationism" or "Law Alone Salvationism" that did not include God's grace in Ephesians 2:8-9 and Titus 3:5.

So you can add me and my wife to the list of the body of believers that believes works of faith are required as a part of the salvation process (after being saved by God's grace).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If by "works" you mean works of obedience to God then yes on must go on to live an obedient life as stated in this position paper by the Missionary Church, USA.
Position Papers – Missionary Church USA

They appear to be Charismatic.
As I stated before, I believe most of these churches I have investigated before are not operating by the gifts according to Scripture correctly.
They appear to be in favor of private tongue speaking (Which I don't believe is biblical). They are also liberal on their stand on Pacifism as taught in the New Testament and even can encourage a person in their duty to military service.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Methodists are very works oriented they believe in Christian perfection.

But they believe in Wesleyan Holiness Theology that essentially states that works are not for salvation.

See this article here by Jeff Paton (Who believes like I do that we are saved by both God's grace through faith + works of faith).

faith by works

 

[timothyu]

Not seeing the problem with Free Masonry is troubling. Are you a Free Mason?

Your response has absolutely nothing to do with what i said (purposeful avoidance?) and purposely twisting what i said falls under the category of false witness does it not?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Your response has absolutely nothing to do with what i said (purposeful avoidance?) and purposely twisting what i said falls under the category of false witness does it not?

Please show me where I purposely twisted what you said and I will be happy to apologize.

It is not false witness to point out the truth. It is true that you are not seeing the problem of Free Masonry because you said words that in effect made me think that there is no problem with it because of our founding fathers were Free Masons. It is also not false witness to ask you a question that you are a Free Mason. A question is not the same thing as an accusation. I asked so as to find out if you were or not. You still have not answered my question on this.

So you are also avoiding what I said.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If anyone is interested, here is a statement about
"Modern Wesleyan Holiness Theology" that states that believers are not saved by works (of which I disagree with).

https://www.indwes.edu/about/docs/Summary_of_Wesleyan_Beliefs.pdf

 

[timothyu]

because you said words that in effect made me think that there is no problem with it because of our founding fathers were Free Masons.

No I am saying you have a problem with Masons hence you have a problem with your nation and it's founders.