Justification and Sanctification ?

[Clare73]

Yes, we are first saved initially by a faith alone (belief alone)

Which in no way refutes anything I said in my post.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Good Day, BH

I am very aware of the variant here you would think historically a bunch of Anglian Calvinists would have known better to follow a Greek text translated from a Latin Text by a Humanist Roman Catholic (His Error is a well known and easy to spot transcription error). We will never know why they made the textual choices that they made.

First, the King James Bible was not translated by Anglican Calvinists. The King James Bible was translated by one group of Calvinists and one group of Anglicans, but it was not under their sole control. King James brought them together to work on a translation (even though these two groups disagreed with each other). Also, the Catholics tried to kill King James and his translation with a super bomb. Try watching the documentary called, KJB, the Book That Changed the World (hosted by John Rhys-Davies). You can watch it for free on Prime Video.

Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

Second, the Textus Receptus manuscripts and bibles (Before the KJB) came under persecution by the Catholic Church, from the killing of William Tyndale for translating the Scriptures into English to the killing of John Rogers (by bloody Mary who was a Catholic).

May I also suggest watching these two videos, as well.

The context from chapter 7 is clearly the priestly intercession of Christ and it's superiority under the NC.

But Romans 7 is not teaching you can sin and still be saved.

Chapter 10 and 14 are in the same book for sure notice that 10:26 ends with a " , " as does your quote form 12 there is much more to the immediate context that you have missed. You may find John Owens work or NT Scholar Tom Schreiner on Hebrews useful in this regard.

Umm.. where do you see this in the text ""in those who desire to be faithful to Him"??

It can not Say, what the text does not contain so adding to the text ideas that the text does not contain is bad a Hermeneutic.

Hebrews 10: 16, 17 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,” then he adds, “I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”

I Never suggested that Hebrews 10 did so your assertion is moot.

No. Sorry, I do not believe you are able to believe the plain words of Hebrews 10:26. If we willfully sin after we received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins. So how is that even true in your belief that a Christian can sin and still be saved the rest of their whole lives? That would be willfully sinning to say that one will always sin this side of Heaven and yet also think they are saved. It is a violation of Hebrews 10:26. One cannot keep God’s commands (The Lord putting His laws in a believer’s heart) if one also believes they can sin and still be saved. That would be serving sin (Which is of the devil) and yet also trying to serve God. Jesus says you cannot serve two masters.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Good day,

Here you go Piper in his own words:

This Is the Judgment: Light Has Come into the World

Jesus didn't come to a neutral world. He came to those already dead and guilty to make some alive and free.

www.desiringgod.org

I don’t truly care to read too much of John Piper’s insane ramblings because the sin and still be saved type belief he teaches is highly immoral and unbiblical to the most wrong extreme.

I mean, stop and think a moment. What if you are wrong? What if the sin and still be saved belief is what Jesus was warning us about in Matthew 7:22-23, and in Matthew 13:41-42 when he referred to how certain believers worked iniquity? What if working in iniquity by certain believers is indeed referring to those Christians who thought the wrong way about sin in that they could not die by their sin? I mean think. Breaking God’s command and not dying was one of the first lies by the devil in the garden. Why take the chance? Well, I will answer for you. It’s because sin is enticing and pleasurable. So of course many will scratch and claw to defend sin to their last dying breath. Remember, Hebrews 3 says a heart can be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. So I believe if a person is defending sin by saying they can sin and still be saved, they are hardening their heart against God (According to the Bible). They are not truly ever able to discern what the Bible is actually saying. Why? Because Paul says if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

I asked -

What would cause a man to leave the Darkness he loves, and come to walk in the Light he hates?

You said-

If they discovered the truth (AKA LIGHT which they hate) in the Bible that their soul can be condemned by committing sin (their deeds are evil) whereby they would then have to truly face the fear of God. In other words, if they truly meditate on how their soul could be thrown into hell (AKA darkness which they Love), and they truly believed that as Scripture teaches, ( to them that are perishing pure foolishness) then they will hate the darkness in order to preserve their own soul and the soul of others.


Nope that does not work… they hate light and love Darkness, care to try again?

Again, I got the impression before that you support John Piper‘s insane gibberish that stated that he still does his sins and yet his sins are not on him because he does not have them anymore. He believes God has taken away his sin (in the sense that he has a license to sin).

But again, John 3:20 says all who do evil hate the light.

Do you believe Christians will always do some kind of evil or sin this side of Heaven?
Do you believe Christians will always slip up into some kind of sin unintentionally (be it lying, coveting, lusting after women, cussing, etc.)?
Yet, the Bible says, all who do evil hate the light —— John 3:20.

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it, every inclination of the thoughts of their hearts was only evil continually.

Right, so why trust your own heart and thoughts in defending what it appears to be the idea that a believer can sin and still be saved?

Kind of like asking a Lion to eat grass.

The Lion will one day eat the grass in the Millennium or 1,000 year reign of Christ.

 

[timothyu]

Matthew 23: 13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

 

[BBAS 64]

First, the King James Bible was not translated by Anglican Calvinists. The King James Bible was translated by one group of Calvinists and one group of Anglicans, but it was not under their sole control. King James brought them together to work on a translation (even though these two groups disagreed with each other). Also, the Catholics tried to kill King James and his translation with a super bomb. Try watching the documentary called, KJB, the Book That Changed the World (hosted by John Rhys-Davies). You can watch it for free on Prime Video.

Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

Second, the Textus Receptus manuscripts and bibles (Before the KJB) came under persecution by the Catholic Church, from the killing of William Tyndale for translating the Scriptures into English to the killing of John Rogers (by blood Mary who was a Catholic).

May I also suggest watching these two videos, as well.

But Romans 7 is not teaching you can sin and still be saved.



No. Sorry, I do not believe you are able to believe the plain words of Hebrews 10:26. If we willfully sin after we received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins. So how is that even true in your belief that a Christian can sin and still be saved the rest of their whole lives? That would be willfully sinning to say that one will always sin this side of Heaven and yet also think they are saved. It is a violation of Hebrews 10:26. One cannot keep God’s commands (The Lord putting His laws in a believer’s heart) if one also believes they can sin and still be saved. That would be serving sin (Which is of the devil) and yet also trying to serve God. Jesus says you cannot serve two masters.

Good Day BH

wow...

It would be in your best interest to review the 39 Articles of faith from 1563 along with the Translators Letter to the reader. The translator were under the Kings control and The crown has a perpetual copyright on the King James Bible, as he (the King) really did not like the Geneva Bible.



1Jn 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.


Hebrew 10:26 in it's own context if fine, I love the warning passages they are His means to keep us to the end.

Dr. Thomas Schreiner addresses these

In Him,

Bill

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I know you will dispute this, but I will try and show you this anyway.

Your statement is based on works!

Please understand that I am a non-denominational Christian who believes in the Bible alone + the Anointing of the Spirit to understand the Scriptures. So if I speak on the matters of the Word of God, I am not speaking on behalf of some denominational bias or church group or a belief that I prefer to be true because it caters to my own self centered selfish desires or sinful interests. I am merely telling you what the Bible says plainly in good conscience before God uplifting that which is good and righteous and not those things that are sinful.

Jesus said “narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and FEW there be that find it” In Matthew 7:14 (Emphasis mine).
Christians have told me that this FEW (who will find life) is in reference to Christianity vs. other false religions (Like the Muslim or Buddah religion, etcetera).
While these other religions are false, the comparison of Christianity vs other false religions is not exactly the FEW that Jesus was referring to. First, If you were to Google it, there are 800 million to 1 billion Protestants in the world.
This does not sound like a FEW in the world that Jesus is talking about.
Most Protestants believe in “Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism,” and or “Sin and Still Be Saved Type Belief.” (Which in its own right morally speaking is a violation of God’s goodness).
Second, Luke 13:23-28 tells us that this FEW is in reference to believers.

The disciples asked Jesus:

“Lord, are there few that be saved?” (Luke 13:23).

As a part of Jesus’ reply He said , “…Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.” (Luke 13:25-27).

So the context of the FEW that Jesus is talking about are believers. They called Him Lord, Lord and they claimed to have known Jesus by eating and drinking in His presence. They claimed to know Jesus by the fact that in Matthew 7:21 Jesus says, ”Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” This suggests that they prayed to Jesus calling Him Lord, Lord, but they did not do God’s will. What is the will of the Father or the will of God?

1 Thessalonians 4:3 KJB says, “For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:”

1 Thessalonians 4:3 NLT says, “God’s will is for you to be holy, so stay away from all sexual sin.”

This is the will of God that they did not do. They did not worry about living holy unto God and they thought they could sin and still be in God’s good graces. For Jesus said He did not know them. How do we know Jesus according to the Bible?

1 John 2:3
”And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.”

John 14:23
”Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.”

Jesus warned us against how certain sins can condemn our souls in the afterlife (Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, Luke 9:62).

The blood of Jesus cleanse us immediately when we believe on Him, because this is a finished work.

There is no such verse in the Bible that says we are to believe on the finished work of the cross to be saved.
Yes, we need to believe in Jesus. This starts off as a belief alone in Jesus as our Savior, but it in time then includes believing in everything Jesus taught, said, and did, too. To not believe in Jesus’ teachings is not to believe in Jesus. So if we do not receive Jesus’ words, those words will judge us on the last day according to John 12:48. So if a Christian does not like Matthew 5:28-30 because they believe the Protestant imaginary saying “Just believe on the finished work of the cross to be saved alone” those words in Matthew 5:28-30 will judge them on the last day (i.e., they will be condemned if they reject these words by Jesus —- especially seeing they are words that deal with how sin can destroy our souls in the afterlife).

Jesus died already and shed His blood already. We automatically walk in the light when we come to Christ because Jesus is the Light.

The scripture you listed,
1 John 1:7
“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.”

You said, we will automatically walk in the light.
That is NOT what 1 John 1:7 says.
This is what Protestant brainwashing does. It makes a person to not even believe their own Bible.
To break the strongholds in your thinking, carefully look again at what 1 John 1:7 says.
It says IF we walk in the light.
It does NOT say, “And those believers who believe in the finished work of the cross will always walk in the light”

This scripture is not telling us to do anything in our fleshly abilities. This scripture is telling us this:

But if we walk in Christ, as Christ is the light, we will then have fellowship with one another, because it is the blood of Christ, the light, that cleanses us from all sin, all done by the Holy Spirit. Not our power, not of works.

While we are changed by the new birth, and while God does do the good works through us ultimately (Philippians 2:13) (John 15:5), we do have to also take the initiative to actually desire God to do His good work through us. We are not mindless slave puppets to do His will. We have free will. I already posted the verses to you before. Scripture says we have to continue in God’s grace, we have to continue in the faith, we have to continue in His goodness (otherwise we can be cut off like the Jews were cut off). The Christian life is synergistic. It’s a walk with God. While God can be convincing and even nudge us in the right direction, God is not going to force us to obey Him, or give us a lobotomy and then control our mind and actions from that point forward. They that are Christ’s have crucified the affections and lusts (Galatians 5:24). But I am afraid this is just yet another verse you will not simply believe plainly.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Good Day BH

wow...

It would be in your best interest to review the 39 Articles of faith from 1563 along with the Translators Letter to the reader.

So the documentary that I sent to you is lying?
I don’t think so. I think you are misunderstanding the translators.
There are two groups that worked on the King James Bible.
One group was Anglican and one group was Puritan (Calvinist).
If you don’t believe that documentary, there are others that say a similar thing.
Even history articles on the KJB teach the truth that there were was one group of translators called the Anglicans and the other group of translators called the Puritans (Calvinists). They were not one group called Anglican Puritans. That is an imaginary tale.

The translator were under the Kings control and The crown has a perpetual copyright on the King James Bible, as he (the King) really did not like the Geneva Bible.

You are seriously misinformed. The KJB was not originally created with a “copyright” in 1611. So it was free from trying to alter the text so as to fit a “copyright.” It was only in 1710 that it later received a copyright in England (See here). King James died in 1625. There is no copyright on the KJB here in the US (The Word of God is not bound - 2 Timothy 2:9). I believe it is one of the reasons why various men of England moved to settle in America, where the Word of God could be preached freely. But you can believe whatever you wish.

1Jn 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Most Christians understand 1 John 1:8 to be a banner flag to justify sin which does not fit the context.

Hebrew 10:26 in it's own context if fine, I love the warning passages they are His means to keep us to the end.

Dr. Thomas Schreiner addresses these

In Him,

Bill

Use your own words to summarize more clearly In small brief bullet points that are clear and concise. I am not watching Calvinist propanganda. No offense, but my time is too valueable to listen to such nonsense.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Your statement is based on works!

There are two groups of Christians that read one set of Scriptures to the wrong extreme.

#1. One group of Christians (Which is the majority of Protestant Christianity - 800 million to 1 billion adherents) takes Paul’s words on being saved by a belief alone in Jesus without works (Ephesans 2:8-9) to the farthest extreme at the expense of ignoring one large set of verses that teach that God later does require us to be fruitful and or to do good works after we are first initially saved by God’s grace.​

​

#2. Another smaller group of Christians (Church of Christ, Catholics, and certain select Works ALONE Salvationists believers) takes James words on how we are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24) to the farthest extreme at the expense of ingoring one large set of verses that teach how we are initially saved by a belief alone in Jesus and the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 (and His mercy) without works. Works ALONE Salvationists deny that we can be saved at any point in time by God’s grace by a belief alone (without works) (Which is a denial of Paul’s words in Ephesians 2:8-9). They see that works always needs to exist in order to have a true faith (even in their Initial Salvation). So that is why many of them believe in water baptism (a work) to first be intially saved. This is false.​

Many Christians do not believe BOTH sets of verses.
Only the few Christians are able to rightly divide and believe both sets of verses in their Bible.

Salvation is in two aspects.

Salvation Aspect #1. We are first initially saved by God’s grace through faith (belief alone) without works (Ephesians 2:8-9).​

​

Salvation Aspect #2. We are saved in a secondary aspect of salvation in the Sanctification of the Holy Spirit to live a holy life (over the course of our whole life) (2 Thessalonians 2:13, Galatians 6:8-9, Romans 8:13). Sanctification includes putting away known sin, doing goods, keeping yourself unspotted from the world, and living holy. This is called being “faithful,” which is taken from the word “faith.” In other words, faith, and faithfulness are two sides of the same coin.​

Side Note:

I will provide to you how the Bible does appear to have verses that do teach we also need to have good works to enter the Kingdom.
It is then up to you if you beleive God’s Word or not plainly or will you let your Protestant traditions or preconceived beliefs color over what those verses say.

 

[biblelesson]

Apparently his posts are directly inspired by the Holy Spirit and therefore his posts are not based on Christian theology? His [renewed] mind might be such that he actually believes the majority of posts by other Christians (than himself) are partially founded on denominational Christian theology; whereas, his posts are influenced by the Holy Spirit and not by man's denominational Christian [doctrinal] theology?

Would be insightful to know if he believes his Christian fellowship is void of Christian theology. Perhaps he has been fortunate to find a near perfect fellowship of Christians that have little or no need of his correction. He has a special Gifting that's not of his own doing.

Do you realize you come across as if your supernatural Gift of Discernment in understanding scripture is superior to that of other Christians posting on this thread. Is that possibly a reason why you are quick to correct their understanding of His Word ... (John 1:1-3 - John 1:14)

No, I come across to you to be superior; you are making that judgment. Maybe a few others, but not everyone. However, I don’t think I’m superior in any way. That’s your opinion, and you have the right to think what you want.

But just look at what you just posted - an attack on me in a very condescending manner. I don’t remember doing that to you or anyone on this site.

So think what you want! God bless you!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Your statement is based on works!

Well, there is one set of verses in the Bible that teaches salvation by God’s grace without works.
Then there is another set of verses in the Bible that teaches salvation by works (Which is a part of the Sanctifcation of the Holy Spirit).
Both sets of verses are true. You have to realize that each are talking about two different points in time for the believer.
But if you dont’ have a preconceived belief, and you just want to believe what the Bible plainly says, here are…

Works for Salvation Verses:

#1. “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

#2. "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

#3. “Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?” (James 2:21) (Note: This work by Abraham in offering up Isaac upon the altar in James 2:21 is referred to as “faith” in Hebrews 11. It says, “By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac:” - Hebrews 11:17).

#4. "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

#5. “And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.” (Matthew 3:10).

#6. “And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.” (1 Peter 4:18-19).

#7. "...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62) (cf. Luke 8:11-15, 1 Corinthians 4:15).

#8. “And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29).

#9. “Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:41-46). “Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.” (Matthew 25:34-36).

#10. “...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” (Matthew 19:17-19)

#11. “And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.” (Luke 10:25-28) (An example of loving your neighbor is given to us in the Parable of the Good Samaritan in Luke 10:25-37).

#12. “In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

#13. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire (Matthew 7:19).

Supplementary Passage (Context):

"And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.” (Matthew 7:26-27).

What sayings of Jesus are they not doing?
Two chapters earlier, Jesus says,

“Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works,
and glorify your Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 5:16).

(The Immediate context also refers to how those who bring forth evil fruit are the corrupt trees, i.e., inwardly they are ravening wolves or false prophets and yet those who bring forth good fruit are good trees):

”Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matthew 7:15-20).

#14. “I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.’ (John 15:5-6).

Supplementary Verse (Context):

”Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.“ (John 15:2).

Note: Notice the first half of John 15:2, Jesus is saying that the branch that does not bear fruit is IN Him.
Jesus says, “every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away”
This branch IN Jesus that bears not fruit, He “taketh away”;
This obviously is referring to how they will be taken away to be cast into the fire (Based on the context - John 15:6).

#15. “For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.” (Galatians 6:8-9).

#16. “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.” (1 John 1:7) (Note: Walking in the light = Loving your brother according to the indirect wording in 1 John 2:9-11; Loving your brother is a good work).

#17. “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.” (1 Timothy 5:8).

#18. “And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine. His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed: (Matthew 25:25-26). “And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30). “And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more. His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:20-21).

#19. “…I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. …” (Revelation 3:1-3). “Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. 5He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life,…” (Revelation 3:4).

#20. "These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; " (Jude 1:12).

As we can see, these false believers mentioned in Jude are without fruit.
This is why we are to constantly affirm to others to maintain good works (Titus 3:8).

In fact, Titus 3:14 says,
"And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful."

So we are to affirm works to other believers CONSTANTLY.
The brethren are to learn to maintain good works so that they are not unfruitful.
That's why.
If one is unfruitful, then they are like the false believers whose fruit is withered, and they are without fruit twice dead, and the roots pluck them up, as Jude warns.

Please address at least 2-3 of these verses above.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I know you will dispute this, but I will try and show you this anyway.

Your statement is based on works!

The blood of Jesus cleanse us immediately when we believe on Him, because this is a finished work. Jesus died already and shed His blood already. We automatically walk in the light when we come to Christ because Jesus is the Light.

The scripture you listed,
1 John 1:7
“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.”

This scripture is not telling us to do anything in our fleshly abilities. This scripture is telling us this:

But if we walk in Christ, as Christ is the light, we will then have fellowship with one another, because it is the blood of Christ, the light, that cleanses us from all sin, all done by the Holy Spirit. Not our power, not of works.

No offense, but I see the majority Christian view on sin and salvation as Hitler in this video views it.

Hitler‘s belief in this video spoof is again like the view that most Christians have today.
It is only a 4 minute video.
Please check it out.

 

[biblelesson]

Please understand that I am a non-denominational Christian who believes in the Bible alone + the Anointing of the Spirit to understand the Scriptures. So if I speak on the matters of the Word of God, I am not speaking on behalf of some denominational bias or church group or a belief that I prefer to be true because it caters to my own self centered selfish desires or sinful interests. I am merely telling you what the Bible says plainly in good conscience before God uplifting that which is good and righteous and not those things that are sinful.

Jesus said “narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and FEW there be that find it” In Matthew 7:14 (Emphasis mine).
Christians have told me that this FEW (who will find life) is in reference to Christianity vs. other false religions (Like the Muslim or Buddah religion, etcetera).
While these other religions are false, the comparison of Christianity vs other false religions is not exactly the FEW that Jesus was referring to. First, If you were to Google it, there are 800 million to 1 billion Protestants in the world.
This does not sound like a FEW in the world that Jesus is talking about.
Most Protestants believe in “Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism,” and or “Sin and Still Be Saved Type Belief.” (Which in its own right morally speaking is a violation of God’s goodness).
Second, Luke 13:23-28 tells us that this FEW is in reference to believers.

The disciples asked Jesus:

“Lord, are there few that be saved?” (Luke 13:23).

As a part of Jesus’ reply He said , “…Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.” (Luke 13:25-27).

So the context of the FEW that Jesus is talking about are believers. They called Him Lord, Lord and they claimed to have known Jesus by eating and drinking in His presence. They claimed to know Jesus by the fact that in Matthew 7:21 Jesus says, ”Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” This suggests that they prayed to Jesus calling Him Lord, Lord, but they did not do God’s will. What is the will of the Father or the will of God?

1 Thessalonians 4:3 KJB says, “For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:”

1 Thessalonians 4:3 NLT says, “God’s will is for you to be holy, so stay away from all sexual sin.”

This is the will of God that they did not do. They did not worry about living holy unto God and they thought they could sin and still be in God’s good graces. For Jesus said He did not know them. How do we know Jesus according to the Bible?

1 John 2:3
”And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.”

John 14:23
”Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.”

Jesus warned us against how certain sins can condemn our souls in the afterlife (Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, Luke 9:62).



There is no such verse in the Bible that says we are to believe on the finished work of the cross to be saved.
Yes, we need to believe in Jesus. This starts off as a belief alone in Jesus as our Savior, but it in time then includes believing in everything Jesus taught, said, and did, too. To not believe in Jesus’ teachings is not to believe in Jesus. So if we receive Jesus’ words, those words will judge us on the last day according to John 12:48. So if a Christian does not like Matthew 5:28-30 because they believe the Protestant imaginary saying “Just believe on the finished work of the cross to be saved alone” those words in Matthew 5:28-30 will judge them on the last day (i.e., they will be condemned if they reject these words by Jesus —- especially seeing they are words that deal with how sin can destroy our souls in the afterlife).




You said, we will automatically walk in the light.
That is NOT what 1 John 1:7 says.
This is what Protestant brainwashing does. It makes a person to not even believe their own Bible.
To break the strongholds in your thinking, carefully look again at what 1 John 1:7 says.
It says IF we walk in the light.
It does NOT say, “And those believers who believe in the finished work of the cross will always walk in the light”


While we are changed by the new birth, and while God does do the good works through us ultimately (Philippians 2:13) (John 15:5), we do have to also take the initiative to actually desire God to do His good work through us. We are not mindless slave puppets to do His will. We have free will. I already posted the verses to you before. But Scripture says we have to continue in God’s grace, we have to in the faith, we have to continue in His goodness (otherwise we can be cut off like the Jews were cut off). The Christian life is synergistic. It’s a walk with God. While God can be convincing and even nudge us in the right direction, God is not going to force us to obey Him, or give us a lobotomy and then control our mind and actions from that point forward. They that are Christ’s have crucified the affections and lusts (Galatians 5:24). But I am afraid this is just yet another verse you will not simply believe plainly.

Just a Christian warning to you! We have no right to judge others. The Bible tells us to judge not that ye be not judged.

You have condemned multiple denomination and have used scriptures to say Christians are sinful, brainwashed, and that God will punish them.

We don’t know the hearts of the millions of Protestant, Catholics, and other people who say they are Christians. Only God knows!

We don’t know how the Holy Spirit work in the lives of some of these people, if not all.

It is God’s wish that all men are saved. So our responsibility is to teach the word with love, understanding, and with the knowledge given us.

No one has to believe you - who are you??

But see it doesn’t matter because if God has given you the gift of teaching according to his grace, then with humility do so out of love, not condemning!

Gods bless you!

 

[AbbaLove]

But just look at what you just posted - an attack on me in a very condescending manner. I don’t remember doing that to you or anyone on this site.

It is meant more as a compliment than an attack. You're not so much influenced by denominational theology, but rather by the teaching of the Holy Spirit as you study scripture. Thus one might discern that your posts are of superior merit.

We understood you to say you have no denominational theology (e.g. fCalvinism v Armenism) that results in divisive debate.

His [renewed] mind might be such that he actually believes the majority of posts by other Christians (than himself) are partially founded on denominational Christian theology; whereas, his posts are influenced by the Holy Spirit and not by man's denominational Christian [doctrinal] theology?

The following was intented as much as a compiment and not an attack.

Do you realize you come across as if your supernatural Gift of Discernment in understanding scripture is superior to that of other Christians posting on this thread. Is that possibly a reason why you are quick to correct their understanding of His Word ... (John 1:1-3 - John 1:14)

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Just a Christian warning to you! We have no right to judge others. The Bible tells us to judge not that ye be not judged.

Matthew 7:1-3 is dealing with hypocritcal judgment and not how we cannot judge in general.

Context:

”Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.” (Matthew 7:5).

John 7:24 says,
”Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.”

1 Corinthians 5:12-13
12 “…do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth.
Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.”

In fact, the flaw in this argument is that you cannot judge anything wrong. You cannot say what Hitler did was bad for killing the Jews, or you cannot correct false teaching (Which the Bible does talk about).

You have condemned multiple denomination and have used scriptures to say Christians are sinful, brainwashed, and that God will punish them.

I condemn nobody. The Word of God does that all on its own. I am just relaying to you what it plainly says.
I did not write the Bible. God did. If you don’t like what it says, take it up with Him.

We don’t know the hearts of the millions of Protestant, Catholics, and other people who say they are Christians. Only God knows!

Again, you don’t seem to understand the Bible’s concept that sin causes death to every person who seeks to justify it.
This really is a no brainer. The Bible clearly teaches time and again that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
So if a person does certain sins that Jesus and Paul lists that relate to how our souls will be condemnd in the afterlife, they are not going to make it (According to the Bible and not what I say). I am just a messenger of what His Word says.

We don’t know how the Holy Spirit work in the lives of some of these people, if not all.

The Spirit does convict men of sin (John 16:8-9), but it is up to the individual to respond to that conviction. If they resist the Spirit, they are not saved. Do you believe in Univeralism? Do you believe in Liberalism? It appears you believe in a wide gate path for all. If so, we can end this conversation. Jesus said narrow was the way and FEW be there that find it. It seems like you want to make the gate wider for more beyond how God describes things in His word. While I wish more would find life (beyond the FEW), I know Jesus tells me that narrow is the way that leads unto life and few be there that find it. Do you believe Jesus’ words?

It is God’s wish that all men are saved. So our responsibility is to teach the word with love, understanding, and with the knowledge given us.

No one has to believe you - who are you??

I am nothing, Christ is everything.

But see it doesn’t matter because if God has given you the gift of teaching according to his grace, then with humility do so out of love, not condemning!

The Scriptures talk about those who save by fear.

Jude 1:23
”And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.”

Also, the Bible says…

“Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.” (Proverbs 27:6).

Gods bless you!

May God bless you.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Just a Christian warning to you! We have no right to judge others.

Welcome to the club. You just made a judgment by giving me a Christian warning.

 

[biblelesson]

It is meant more as a compliment than an attack. You're not so much influenced by denominational theology, but rather by the teaching of the Holy Spirit as you study scripture. Thus one might discern that your posts are of superior merit.

We understood you to say you have no denominational theology (e.g. fCalvinism v Armenism) that results in divisive debate.

The following was intented as much as a compiment and not an attack.

If I misunderstood what you were saying, I owe you an apology!

Gods bless you!

 

[biblelesson]

Matthew 7:1-3 is dealing with hypocritcal judgment and not how we cannot judge in general.

Context:

”Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.” (Matthew 7:5).

John 7:24 says,
”Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.”

1 Corinthians 5:12-13
12 “…do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth.
Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.”

In fact, the flaw in this argument is that you cannot judge anything wrong. You cannot say what Hitler did was bad for killing the Jews, or you cannot correct false teaching (Which the Bible does talk about).


I condemn nobody. The Word of God does that all on its own. I am just relaying to you what it plainly says.
I did not write the Bible. God did. If you don’t like what it says, take it up with Him.



Again, you don’t seem to understand the Bible’s concept that sin causes death to every person who seeks to justify it.
This really is a no brainer. The Bible clearly teaches time and again that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
So if a person does certain sins that Jesus and Paul lists that relate to how our souls will be condemnd in the afterlife, they are not going to make it (According to the Bible and not what I say). I am just a messenger of what His Word says.



The Spirit does convict men of sin (John 16:8-9), but it is up to the individual to respond to that conviction. If they resist the Spirit, they are not saved. Do you believe in Univeralism? Do you believe in Liberalism? It appears you believe in a wide gate path for all. If so, we can end this conversation. Jesus said narrow was the way and FEW be there that find it. It seems like you want to make the gate wider for more beyond how God describes things in His word. While I wish more would find life (beyond the FEW), I know Jesus tells me that narrow is the way that leads unto life and few be there that find it. Do you believe Jesus’ words?



I am nothing, Christ is everything.


The Scriptures talk about those who save by fear.

Jude 1:23
”And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.”

Also, the Bible says…

“Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.” (Proverbs 27:6).



May God bless you.

We are under the new dispensation that came into force after Jesus died, Hebrews 9:16-17 KJV.

We must now follow the gospel as our guide regarding right behavior. Jesus ascended on high and gave gifts unto men for the edifying of the church: some teachers, some preachers, etc, We are servants of God! The Bible tells us to teach the gospel of salvation in love!

Here are scriptures on judging:

Romans 14:13 KJV
Romans 2:1 KJV / Romans 2:1 NIV

Love

1 Corinthians 13:1-4 KJV / 1 Corinthians 13:1-4 NIV

1 John 4:7 KJV

 

[Bible Highlighter]

We are under the new dispensation that came into force after Jesus died, Hebrews 9:16-17 KJV.

I also believe the New Testament (or New Covenant) began with Christ’s death upon the cross.
But what you fail to understand is that the Law has changed (Hebrews 7:12). It does not mean there is no Law whatseover.
There is the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2).
The Law of Christ (Galatians 2:8).
There are even commands given to us in the New Testament that are called a command.
Do you even know what they are?

We must now follow the gospel as our guide regarding right behavior. Jesus ascended on high and gave gifts unto men for the edifying of the church: some teachers, some preachers, etc, We are servants of God! The Bible tells us to teach the gospel of salvation in love!

So what is your understanding of the gospel?
What is your understanding of being a servant of God?
What duties are involved?
Does it involve putting away certains sins or doing certain good works?

Here are scriptures on judging:

Romans 14:13 KJV
Romans 2:1 KJV / Romans 2:1 NIV

You are reading Romans 14:13 in the vacuum of space.
You need to read the context again. Just as you ignored the context in Matthew 7 on judging, you also ignore the context in Romans 14:13.
The context is judging in regards to whether or not we should judge a brother for eating certain foods or for keeping certain days or not. It’s not saying we cannot judge at all another brother. If that was the case then Paul would be a hypocrtie for judging Peter. Besides, I already gave you the verses by Paul that says otherwise to your false line of thinking here.

Romans 2:1 is also in context to hypocrtical judgment.

“Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. “ (Romans 2:1).

Please keep reading and you will see it is a person who judges and does the same things.

Love

1 Corinthians 13:1-4 KJV / 1 Corinthians 13:1-4 NIV

1 John 4:7 KJV

1 Corinthians 13:6 says,
”Rejoiceth not in iniquity,“

Yet, many I have encountered in Christianity rejoices in a false gospel of thinking they can sin and still be saved.

Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15).

1 Corinthians 16:22 (NKJV)
”If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed. O Lord, come!”

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@biblelesson

Do you believe that unbelievers who reject Jesus Christ are not saved?
If you believe this, then you are judging them in your thoughts.
Is there any sin or wrong doing that a person can do that will lead them to hell?
Meaning, do you think serial killers who never turn to God and hurt unimaginable amount of people are bad people?
If you do, then you are judging them. Is there any sin in this life that burns you up or gets you angry? You know Jesus got angry at those who sold in the temple. So it is not wrong to get angry at sin. Psalms 7:11 says God is angry at the wicked every day.
So do you think it is wrong to think certain evil things are wrong?
Do you not have a moral code or standard?
This is why your out of context “judge not“ is self imploding unless you are Universalist (i.e., you believe all people will eventually be saved in the end). What do you make of the verses that refutes your false line of thinking here? Again, what do you make of John 7:24. Do you just ignore that verse? In other words, you would have to be without any morals or right or wrong in order to not judge anyone.
We know it is wrong when people do certain bad things and it is not wrong to correct them.
What do you think happened in 1 Corinthians 5? Did Paul just say to love that fornicator in their church? Or did he tell the Corinthian church to kick this fornicator out? What about when Paul rebuked Peter to his face? Are not these things judging? This is why your belief is totally inconsistent and does not align with Scripture.

 

[setst777]

I know you will dispute this, but I will try and show you this anyway.

Your statement is based on works!

The blood of Jesus cleanse us immediately when we believe on Him, because this is a finished work. Jesus died already and shed His blood already. We automatically walk in the light when we come to Christ because Jesus is the Light.

The scripture you listed,
1 John 1:7
“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.”

This scripture is not telling us to do anything in our fleshly abilities. This scripture is telling us this:

But if we walk in Christ, as Christ is the light, we will then have fellowship with one another, because it is the blood of Christ, the light, that cleanses us from all sin, all done by the Holy Spirit. Not our power, not of works.

" 1 John 1:7" specifically states that:
"if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.”

The "light" is referring to the Spirit we are to walk in to have life:

God’s work of sanctification is through the Spirit, but only as we (believers) are faithful to walk by the Spirit in righteousness. If we do this, then we show that our faith is genuine; and so, the Spirit (who indwells the believer) guarantees the believer eternal life.

Galatians 6:7-9 (WEB) 7 Do not be deceived. God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption. But he who sows to the Spirit will {{{from the Spirit}}} reap eternal life. 9 Let {{{us}}} not be weary in doing good, for {{{we}}} will reap in due season, {{{if we}}} do not give up.

The Spirit of God indwells the true believer to enable his faith to be victorious over the flesh in that sanctified life that the believer committed to when he first believed.

Romans 8:3-4 (EWEB) 3 For what the law couldn’t do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God did, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh; 4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Therefore, the Spirit works to sanctify the believer as the believer continually puts to death the deeds of the body by the Spirit living in him.

Romans 8:12-14 (ENIV) 12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, {{{we}}} have an obligation – but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. 14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.

Galatians 5:24-25 (EWEB) 24 Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with Spirit.

Not all Christians will continue to walk by the Spirit. Christians may not remain faithful, and so, they will grieve (Ephesians 4:17-32; Isaiah 63:10); quench (1 Thessalonians 5:19); insult (Hebrews 10:24-31); resist (Act 7:51), reject (1 Thessalonians 4:1-8), lie to (Acts 5:3), and test (Acts 5:9), the Spirit of God indwelling them, which can result in eternal punishment if not repented of (Hebrews 10:24-30); for the Spirit will only give eternal life to those Christians who continue to sow to the Spirit without giving up (Galatians 6:7-9).