Justification and Sanctification ?

[Bible Highlighter]

Is that what Mark Quayle is presenting?

Or is that a misrepresentation of him?

So he does not believe 1 John 1:8 like you do? Does he not agree with John Piper in that Piper still does his sins currently but God does not see those sins? Just read about the churches in Revelation 2-3. They were not doing well spiritually and their works and or sin was the problem. So yeah. God still sees sin. Do you believe in chastening? If so, then one’s sins are not gone by believing in Jesus alone. Most Christians I have ran into believe in a series of biblical contradictions on account of their sin and still be saved belief.

I don't need John Piper to tell me that believers are not sinless, I have the testimony of the NT for that (1 Jn 1:8-10).

But the context does not support the sin and be saved interpretation of 1 John 1:8. So the sin and still be saved interpretation on 1 John 1:8 forces a person to read this verse in the vacuum of space.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@BBAS 64

So the popular Christian belief in regards to sin and salvation is the same one expressed by Hitler in this video (that is approximately 4 minutes).

Let me know what you think if it sounds true to you. Yes, I am aware of those who push for some level of holy living but if one can believe they can sin and not die kind of negates the idea of living correctly. In either case, let me know your thoughts on Hitler’s view in this video.

 

[setst777]

I believe we are first saved by God’s grace through faith without works in Initial Salvation.
So I agree we can be saved before one work is ever done.
But I also believe there is a secondary aspect of salvation we need to continue in of which I believe the Bible describes as Sanctification.

Sanctify:

John 17:17​

"Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth."​

​

Ephesians 5:25-27​

25 "...even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;​

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,​

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."​

Again, I do not see these words above in Scripture saying LIVE out your sanctification. It simply says sanctify involving the process of making ourselves holy. We are to sanctify or cleanse (wash, or make holy) our life by the washing of the water of the Word (Scripture). This is a continual process. We have to keep putting the Word on the inside of us in loving God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength, and by loving our neighbor as ourselves. This is the most plainest way to read the text above. I am not trying to insert anything into it. It merely says I can sanctify myself by Scripture and the goal of that is to be without blemish and to be holy and without spot or wrinkle. This takes time and it is not an overnight process. All believers through time needed to grow and learn to love God in their walk with Him. I mean, can we honestly say we are loving all our neighbors like we should?

What you are describing is living out your sanctification, to walk in the light that you committed to when you first repented and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord whom you now follow into a life of righteousness and love.

Will you live a sanctified life if you have not first repented from dead works of sin and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord?

In answer: No, you will not live a sanctified life onto God unless you first have repented, renouncing the old life of serving sin to living for Christ (sanctification). You are to first sanctify yourself to God by faith - renouncing the old master, and then to confess Jesus as Lord of our lives. That is how we sanctify ourselves to God.

When a person first believes, unless his faith is dead, he made a commitment to turn from darkness, and to walk in the light of Christ Jesus and his words. The forgiveness of sins is for those who have a living faith in Lord Jesus, not a dead faith.

Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light (repentance), and from the power of Satan unto God (repentance), that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Notice that the forgiveness of sins comes after we have repented and turned to Jesus as our Lord by faith. That is how we are sanctified by faith in Lord Jesus before one work is ever done.

After we truly believe, confessing Jesus as our Lord, we now live out our faith in sanctification that we committed to when we first believed.

1 Thessalonians 4:3-8 (WEB) 3 For this is the will of God: your sanctification, that you abstain from sexual immorality, 4 that each one of you know how to control his own body in sanctification and honor, 5 not in the passion of lust, even as the Gentiles who don’t know God, 6 that no one should take advantage of and wrong a brother or sister in this matter; because the Lord is an avenger in all these things, as also we forewarned you and testified. 7 For God called us not for uncleanness, but in sanctification. 8 Therefore he who rejects this doesn’t reject man, but God, who has also given his Holy Spirit to you.

1 John 1:6-9 (WEB) 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and don’t tell the truth.
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.

Now, I also agree to an extent with you that we are to sanctify (cleanse) ourselves to God (i.e., make a dedication in renewing or transforming our minds and prove what is the acceptable will of God is). David asked for a clean heart by God and a right spirit. We need to sanctify the Lord our God in our hearts.

1 Peter 3:15​

”But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts:”​

I see this as a rededicating to the Lord.

This can be done when a person first comes to the Lord, or when they get off the path. They decide to dedicate themselves to Christ and make Him Lord of their life and say ”no” to all ungodliness and sin and serve Jesus because of what He has done for them in His love (Which was expressed upon His sufferings and by His death upon the cross).

What you described is a living faith - a faith in which you renounce the old life of darkness, and now dedicate your life to follow Lord Jesus. That describes faith as a sanctifying of our lives to God.

Acts 20:20-21 (NIV) 20 You know that I have not hesitated to preach anything that would be helpful to you but have taught you publicly and from house to house. 21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

What that true believer does afterwards is to live a sanctifed life onto God that he committed to when he first believed.

I see this as a part of God’s grace. When we set out to renew our minds or be transformed in our thinking for God, we are doing so because we most likely messed up, and want to dedicate our lives to Him in everything we do and please Him in all things to His glory and not our own.

God's grace is accessed by first believing in Christ - Living Faith, not a Dead Faith.

God will only forgive, cleanse, and indwell by His Spirit those who first repent, believing in Jesus as their Lord whom they now follow.

Philippians 1:17 (WEB) Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know that you stand firm in the one Spirit, striving together as one for the faith of the gospel

Notice, we conduct our lives (sanctified lives) in a way worthy of the Gospel that we committed to by our faith in Jesus as Lord. That is the faith of the Gospel that we now strive to live worthy of. Our reason for striving to live a sanctified life onto God is because that is what we committed to as the faith of the Gospel.

So I disagree with your conclusion on Sanctification. It is incomplete. While Sanctification (Washing/Making holy) can have different applications, I believe the Bible teaches that Sanctification’s primarily teaching is describing the secondary aspect of salvation to live a holy life over the whole course of our life (as a believer). Grace is what helps us to get there. God’s grace teaches us to deny ungodliness, and to live righteously in this present world (Titus 2:11-12). God’s grace can help us to labor more abundantly than others (1 Corinthians 15:10). Just like the woman who loved Jesus very much by her anointing Jesus’ feet with her tears. She loved much because she was forgiven much. She realized the greatness of God’s grace that moved her naturally to love in her actions.

I am not sure if you know this, but "grace" is not a person. We access God's grace by faith, not before faith. And faith to be living or genuine includes repentance.

Romans 5:1-2 (WEB) 1 Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; 2 through whom we also have our access by faith into this grace in which we stand.

Acts 20:20-21 (NIV) 20 You know that I have not hesitated to preach anything that would be helpful to you but have taught you publicly and from house to house. 21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Therefore, a living faith by which we access God's saving grace is a faith that includes turning to God in repentance, and by faith in Jesus as our Lord. That is sanctifying our lives to God before one work is ever done. Now, as believers, we live sanctified lives that we committed to by that living faith.

A dead faith believes everything about the Gospel and Lord Jesus, but has not turned to God in repentance, and confess Jesus as his rightful Lord by faith. A dead faith does not access God's grace.

 

[BBAS 64]

Holy living is an illusion of one believes they can sin and not die.

Good Day,

Holy living would be the result of God.... he is the cause.

Better known as regeneration or the new birth and is exclusively part of the NC.


I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

He puts His spirt in us the the express purpose to cause us to walk in our statues and obey his rules...

This would be another discussion on a different topic.

Hebrews:

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more.” In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

New heart God writes His law on it... = New desires

We no longer have to teach our neighbor "Know the Lord" ... they will know him and desire Him based upon his work of "putting and writing"

That is His purpose in doing His work, and His purposes can not fail.

In Him,

Bill

 

[BBAS 64]

@BBAS 64

So the popular Christian belief in regards to sin and salvation is the same one expressed by Hitler in this video (that is approximately 4 minutes).

Let me know what you think if it sounds true to you. Yes, I am aware of those who push for some level of holy living but if one can believe they can sin and not die kind of negates the idea of living correctly. In either case, let me know your thoughts on Hitler’s view in this video.

Good Day,

If you have the historical written source from Hitler I would be more than will to read it....

Here is the 1689 LBC on the issue:

Chapter 17 – The Perseverance of the Saints​

1. Those God has accepted in the Beloved, effectually called and sanctified by his Spirit, and given the precious faith of his elect can neither totally nor finally fall from a state of grace. They will certainly persevere in grace to the end and be eternally saved, because the gifts and callings of God are irrevocable. Therefore, he still brings about and nourishes in them faith, repentance, love, joy, hope, and all the graces of the Spirit that lead to immortality.1 Even though many storms and floods arise and beat against them, yet these things will never be able to move the elect from the foundation and rock to which they are anchored by faith. The felt sight of the light and love of God may be clouded and obscured from them for a time through their unbelief and the temptations of Satan.2 Yet God is still the same; they will certainly be kept by the power of God for salvation, where they will enjoy their purchased possession. For they are engraved on the palms of his hands, and their names have been written in the book of life from all eternity.3
1John 10:28, 29; Philippians 1:6; 2 Timothy 2:19; 1 John 2:19. 2Psalms 89:31, 32; 1 Corinthians 11:32. 3Malachi 3:6.

2. This perseverance of the saints does not depend on their own free will but on the unchangeableness of the decree of election,4 which flows from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father. It is based on the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ and union with him,5 the oath of God,6 the abiding of his Spirit, the seed of God within them,7 and the nature of the covenant of grace.8 The certainty and infallibility of their perseverance is based on all these things.
4Romans 8:30; Romans 9:11, 16. 5Romans 5:9, 10; John 14:19. 6Hebrews 6:17, 18. 71 John 3:9. 8Jeremiah 32:40.

3. They may fall into grievous sins and continue in them for a time, due to the temptation of Satan and the world, the strength of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of means of their preservation.9 In so doing, they incur God’s displeasure and grieve his Holy Spirit;10 their graces and comforts become impaired;11 their hearts are hardened and their consciences wounded;12 they hurt and scandalize others and bring temporary judgments on themselves.13 Nevertheless, they will renew their repentance and be preserved through faith in Christ Jesus to the end.14
9Matthew 26:70, 72, 74. 10Isaiah 64:5, 9; Ephesians 4:30. 11Psalms 51:10, 12. 12Psalms 32:3, 4. 132 Samuel 12:14. 14Luke 22:32, 61, 62.

In Him,

Bill

 

[Mark Quayle]

Do you readily admit, that if God specifically has chosen someone to be a particular member of the Bride of Christ, that they will indeed become that member of the Bride of Christ?

Or do you think God has substitutes ready, just in case?

Or do you think God chooses randomly from a pool of possibles?

Or is it all just the random ones who somehow believe, that God foresees and so he chooses them based on that foresight?

Or what?

 

[Mark Quayle]

Here is John Piper (A Calvinist) teaching he can sin and still be saved, as well.

So yeah, he has the same view as Hitler in the video I showed.

Side Note:

I do not agree with Adam (at Abide in the Word YouTube Channel) in regards to his view on denying the the 1st aspect of salvation (Which is being saved by God’s grace without works). I believe the Bible teaches two aspects of salvation.

#1. We are saved initially by God’s grace without works through faith.
#2. We are saved in the Sanctification of the Spirit (over the course of our whole life).

However, Adam does a good job at showing how many Christians today believe in a sin and still be saved type belief (Which is not what the BIble teaches).

Are you saying you never sin?

 

[Clare73]

So he does not believe 1 John 1:8 like you do?

I say he is presenting 1 Jn 1:8-10.

Does he not agree with John Piper

Not sure.

in that Piper still does his sins currently but God does not see those sins? Just read about the churches in Revelation 2-3. They were not doing well spiritually and their works and or sin was the problem. So yeah. God still sees sin. Do you believe in chastening? If so, then one’s sins are not gone by believing in Jesus alone. Most Christians I have ran into believe in a series of biblical contradictions on account of their sin and still be saved belief.
But the context does not support the sin and be saved interpretation of 1 John 1:8. So you are reading this verse in the vacuum of space.

Context does not nullify the text.

Are those in 1 Jn 1:8-10 saved? Do those in 1 Jn 1:8-10 sin?

 

[Rapture Bound]

Are you saying you never sin?

Yeah ... if a believer must remain sinless in order to "remain a believer" [LOS terminology] ... then I'd be a gonner a long time ago - lol

 

[BBAS 64]

Yeah ... if a believer must remain sinless in order to "remain a believer" [LOS terminology] ... then I'd be a gonner a long time ago - lol

Good Day RB

I am with you.....

For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

I am so thankful for the love of My Father and the Priesthood and mediation ministries of My Lord.

Amazing Grace it is sufficient!

God allows us to struggle with sin our whole lives to convince us until our dying breath of our desperate need of the gospel." -John Newton

In Him,

Bill

 

[setst777]

I say he is presenting 1 Jn 1:8-10.

Not sure.

Context does not nullify the text.

Are those in 1 Jn 1:8-10 saved? Do those in 1 Jn 1:8-10 sin?

Context defines and clarifies the text.

1 Jn 1:5-10 (WEB) 5 This is the message which we have heard from him and announce to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and don’t tell the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us the sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we haven’t sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Look. One of the first deceptions or lies of the devil was to get Eve to believe she and her husband would not die if they disobeyed God’s command. 1 John 3:4 says sin is the breaking of the Law. So the devil wants people to believe the lie that they can sin and still be saved. Makes sense, right? 1 John 3:8 says he that commits sin is of the devil, and Jesus was manifested to destroy the works of the devil. This is what is deceptive about many I have heard in Christianity today. They appear to be for holy living but in reality they teach a double message that they can sin and not die. They think it is the gospel.

Be honest with yourself. Jesus did not sound like He was promoting the popular sin and still be saved belief today in Matthew 7:21-23. He told those believers He never knew to depart from Him because they worked iniquity. Iniquity is sin. They justified the idea that they can sin and still be saved. So if 1 John 1:8 is all you got and you are betting your chips on that verse along with a few other out of context readings of a few others (like Romans 7:14-24), then I would say that is a huge gamble that is not going to really pay off for anyone.

Do you never sin?

 

[Mark Quayle]

You said, I quote:
”no Reformed or Calvinist that I know of, excuses sin.”

Yet, I proven this to be false. I have shown how both John MacArthur and John Piper teach that they can sin and still be saved (Which is an excuse to sin). John Piper says he still does his sins and yet Jesus does not see them. John MacArthur says that suicide and taking the mark of the beast will not lead to spiritual death. This again is an excuse of sin. I could go into Paul Washer if you like. He wrote a PDF document saying we are sinners and yet saved. So yeah. You were wrong on this point.

They are not teaching holy living but a license to sin.

No you have not proven it. Both John MacArthur and John Piper are making a point, by biblical use of the word, believer. If someone is a believer, they are of the Elect. If someone is of the Elect, they will be saved. Pretty simple. Nobody and nothing, can make God lose his elect. BUT if they continue to sin, they are not truly, Biblically, believing. And MANY will find they have fooled themselves.

 

[setst777]

No you have not proven it. Both John MacArthur and John Piper are making a point, by biblical use of the word, believer. If someone is a believer, they are of the Elect. If someone is of the Elect, they will be saved. Pretty simple. Nobody and nothing, can make God lose his elect. BUT if they continue to sin, they are not truly, Biblically, believing. And MANY will find they have fooled themselves.

John MacArthur, in particular, even though he is a Calvinist, proclaims a message about faith in Lord Jesus, and salvation, that is compatible with the Arminian and Wesleyan doctrine. He teaches everything the Arminian and Wesleyan believe about faith and salvation; yet, at the same time, he also teaches Calvinism. John MacArthur acknowledges that he cannot explain this mystery of these seemingly opposing teachings; in that he teaches about our free will, responsibility, and participation in, the work of salvation by faith, but also believes this is all God's work from eternity.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Do you readily admit, that if God specifically has chosen someone to be a particular member of the Bride of Christ, that they will indeed become that member of the Bride of Christ?

Or do you think God has substitutes ready, just in case?

Or do you think God chooses randomly from a pool of possibles?

Or is it all just the random ones who somehow believe, that God foresees and so he chooses them based on that foresight?

Or what?

God does know who are His but those of whom He does know accept the following truths below in Scripture:

1. “...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).

2. "Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).

3. "...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).

4. We are told to continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).

5. We are told to continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).

6. We are told to continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

 

[AbbaLove]

Will you live a sanctified life if you have not first repented from dead works of sin and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord?

In answer: No, you will not live a sanctified life onto God unless you first have repented, renouncing the old life of serving sin to living for Christ (sanctification). You are to first sanctify yourself to God by faith - renouncing the old master, and then to confess Jesus as Lord of our lives. That is how we sanctify ourselves to God.

Agree ... Isn't it actually God/Holy Spirit that leads one to a heart-felt need of turning from sin by repenting (Stop sinning ... Go and sin no more)

It's GOD/Christ/Holy Spirit that first sanctifies a Believer. That work would not be possible without His atoning blood at Calvary. Although i'm not a Calvinist it's only GOD/Christ/Holy Spirit that leads and deserves ALL the credit-Glory that makes it possible for a born again Believer to live a Sanctified Life thereby obtaining eternal salvation.

Sanctified Followers of Christ would never boast or even see themselves as a sacred holy righteous vessel. GOD forbide they ever think of themselves something as something special because of their own doing. They are a bond servant (slave) to carrying out HIS righteousness only possible with the abiding leading of the Holy Spirit being an obedient servant ...

But who is there among you, having a servant plowing or keeping sheep, that will say when he comes in from the field, ‘Come immediately and sit down at the table,’ and will not rather tell him, ‘Prepare my supper, clothe yourself properly, and serve me, while I eat and drink. Afterward you shall eat and drink’? Does he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded? I think not. Even so you also, when you have done all the things that are commanded you, say, ‘We are unworthy servants. We have done our duty.’”​

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!​

Perhaps we all can agree that there is a tad too much of "me and my theology" that pervades today's modern Cristianity. The tendency being to consider that a Believer has been justified (OSAS) ... even if they don't quite see Calvery as an initial work of sanctification..

 

[Bible Highlighter]

John MacArthur, in particular, even though he is a Calvinist, proclaims a message about faith in Lord Jesus, and salvation, that is compatible with the Arminian and Wesleyan doctrine. He teaches everything the Arminian and Wesleyan believe about faith and salvation; yet, at the same time, he also teaches Calvinism. John MacArthur acknowledges that he cannot explain this mystery of these seemingly opposing teachings; in that he teaches about our free will, responsibility, and participation in, the work of salvation by faith, but also believes this is all God's work from eternity.

No, my friend. MacArthur preaches a double message. John MacArthur pretends to teach holy living as a requirement for salvation, but he really does not believe that way according to the Bible. The Lordship Salvation doctrine he popularized is a Trojan horse.

How so?

Well, Kenneth Nally committed suicide as per his influence of John MacArthur's ministry and MacArthur said that he was still saved.

Here is a quote from an article:

"At the trial, MacArthur, 45, is seeking to clarify his church’s teaching on suicide. “It’s not only a sin, it’s illegal,” he says. “But we teach that even if a believer takes his own life, the Lord will still receive him into His presence.”​

Article Source:
Fundamentalist Clergymen Face Charges of 'Malpractice' When a Parishioner Turns to Suicide

John MacArthur says that a person can take the mark of the beast and they can still be saved afterwards. Listen to this audio clip by him here:

https://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/audio/macarthur-take-mark.mp3​

John MacArthur says,

".. sin does not result in spiritual death for the believer ...​

(The MacArthur Study Bible, p. 1927, comment on James 1:15)"​

John MacArthur confirms how one can sin and still be saved here in this video:

Here is John Piper (Another Calvinist) teaching he can sin and still be saved, as well.

 

[Mark Quayle]

God does know who are His but those of whom He does know accept the following truths below in Scripture:

1. “...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).

2. "Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).

3. "...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).

4. We are told to continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).

5. We are told to continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).

6. We are told to continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

Then you have the causal order backwards. All those are true, and "we do so because it is so". Doing so does not save us. Doing so demonstrates, even fulfills, what we are.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No you have not proven it. Both John MacArthur and John Piper are making a point, by biblical use of the word, believer. If someone is a believer, they are of the Elect. If someone is of the Elect, they will be saved. Pretty simple. Nobody and nothing, can make God lose his elect. BUT if they continue to sin, they are not truly, Biblically, believing. And MANY will find they have fooled themselves.

No. Piper and MacArthur both teach you can sin and be saved. I provided irrefutable proof for this.

 

[Mark Quayle]

No. Piper and MacArthur both teach you can sin and be saved. I provided irrefutable proof for this.

You did not. Nor did you answer my questions. Do you, or do you not, sin? Do you say you have no sin?