Joseph Prince interpretation of 1 John 1:9

[Alive_Again]

Are you saying that the Pharisees had zero righteousness? This seems to set the bar very low in order to exceed their righteousness if that is the case.

The scribes and Pharisees relied on the law for their righteousness. It is implied from the behavior of other Pharisees in the Word that it tended to hypocrisy and that the trusted in themselves. It doesn't say that they didn't have any righteousness, but only that we had to exceed what they were working to obtain.

If "no one is righteous, no not one" is referring to the old man then wouldn't it follow that there was no righteous men anywhere in the old testament?

If the Word says "not one", then within the context that it describes, which I believe is the righteousness of God, then absolutely no one had it. Jesus said only God was good, yet the Word says Barnabus was a "good man", also Joseph the "counselor" in Luke. He also said that a good man, out of the good treasure of his heart, bringeth forth good things. So I believe that within the context of the scripture about "no not one", it refers to God's standard of righteousness.

Why does the new testament call Lot righteous?

God called Noah "righteous" and the Psalms are full of descriptions about the righteous. A different standard that ours, as the people in the Old Covenant did not have the Holy Spirit residing within, nor the blood of Jesus to cleanse.

Did they even have a new man under the old covenant?

Obviously not, as the "new man" is the one in union with Jesus. The Jews did have circumcised hearts to be able to receive the Law and were not "sinners" by nature as of the Gentiles.

Are you suggesting that the term "righteousness" in the old and new testaments are talking about entirely different things?

Abraham had his righteousness imputed to him. I believe this is why we are even greater than John the Baptist, not just because our righteousness is imputed, but because we are actually temples of the Holy Ghost, and our righteousness is of Him, far exceeding the scribes and Pharisees.

I think these scriptures shed some light on the righteousness of the Law.

There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
Luke 1:5-6

Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Phil 3:4-6

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

Originally Posted by ABlessedMan

Because it is a worthy goal. Show me the verse that tells you when you will achieve your own righteousness.

I can show you this in the mean time:

Romans 3:9-12
9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
10 As it is written:
“ There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”​

You simply do not have the nature for your own righteousness. Righteousness is imputed to you through Jesus. You are the righteousness of God through Jesus. Not of yourself, but because of what Jesus' sacrifice does for you.

​

Ok, I've had a chance to think about this. First of all to discuss the Romans verse. Everyone (or most) seem to use that Romans verse as a blanket rule for everyone at all times but isn't it equally possible that it was referring to a time in history where God lacked a righteous person on earth??

That is a different theological construct, one that embraces cessassionism, one that says the churches in Revelation are different church ages, etc. Or perhaps a mingled mix of many, eh?

But no, scripture speaks of the nature of men as being such that we, in and of ourselves, will not seek God and will not seek righteousness. We have been called of God and given a spark of faith to respond to that call with. It allows. It does not compel, but it allows. It is our choice once we have the ability to see the difference.

Regarding actual righteousness or proposed lack of what do you do with this verse?

Matthew 5:20 NASB "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

But splat, what is "your righteousness?" It is imputed from Jesus when you accept His free gift of salvation. So "your righteousness" is STILL nothing that you produce in and of yourself. It is something that you work within and grow within after you are saved. And this imputed righteousness will certainly surpass the scribes and Pharisees -- allowing us direct access to the kingdom of heaven.

2 Corinthians 5:21 (NASB)
He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
​

Also, I'm not suggesting sinless perfection on this side of heaven. Just it seems as though we have, or could have, some "actual" righteousness from a casual reading of that scripture.

We have Jesus' righteousness. With this righteousness we are seen as sinless in God's eyes:

1 John 3:9 (NKJV)
Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
​

Are you born of God, splat? Then you "cannot sin, because you [are] born of God." Does this mean you don't stumble and sin? No! Read Romans 7:15-17 "For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me."

You are still in the flesh, carnal, and you will stumble. But Jesus has already washed you clean in your repentence. God sees you through His righteousness, and that is perfect righteousness, not your own. You could never "do good enough." But through Jesus sacrifice, you are justified (just-as-if-I'd never sinned). God sees you as someone who "cannot sin."

When scripture talks about you walking in righteousness, see yourself as God does: through Jesus' blood imputed with His righteousness!!

 

[splat]

OK, maybe I'm not being abundantly clear in what I'm saying. I will try to do better.

Romans 3:10-11 NASB as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; (11) THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;

If I am understanding correctly it has been implied that we need to insert the word "adequately" into that verse to make it consistent with christianforums.com theology. Then it would read thusly:

Romans 3:10-11 NASB as it is written, "THERE IS NONE adequately RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; (11) THERE IS NONE WHO adequately UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO adequately SEEKS FOR GOD;

of course that word "adequately" is not in the original greek but its argued (I think) that its supported from the context of the passage. (Although I'm not exactly clear how.)

The problem with this interpretation is that it leaves one bewildered whether seeking God today is beneficial seeing that we can't adequately do it.

I think what we haven't examined is how and when righteousness is imputed. The implication is that a "truck load" of righteous is imputed at time of conversion but not subsequently. Or is it imputed as we walk out our faith after conversion also?

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

OK, maybe I'm not being abundantly clear in what I'm saying. I will try to do better.

Now I'm really confused . Really.

Romans 3:10-11 NASB as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; (11) THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;

If I am understanding correctly it has been implied that we need to insert the word "adequately" into that verse to make it consistent with christianforums.com theology. Then it would read thusly:

Romans 3:10-11 NASB as it is written, "THERE IS NONE adequately RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; (11) THERE IS NONE WHO adequately UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO adequately SEEKS FOR GOD;

of course that word "adequately" is not in the original greek but its argued (I think) that its supported from the context of the passage. (Although I'm not exactly clear how.)

Um. First, christianforums.com does not have a theology. It welcomes all denominations regardless of theological bent, as long as they are Christian.

Second, who is arguing that we should insert "adequately" into the text. Why would you think someone is requesting the Word to be adulterated? I hope that you didn't get that from any of my words about this.

Scripture says that "there is none righteous, not even one." And I take it for what it says. I don't add words to water it down. There simply is no man who is righteous of himself.

The problem with this interpretation is that it leaves one bewildered whether seeking God today is beneficial seeing that we can't adequately do it.

Careful here. A man (or woman) left totally on his own cannot seek after God. His carnal nature will take him down carnal and sinful paths, not on a path toward God. Scripture is clear about this.

God calls first. This call puts the faith in you that allows you to recognize the perfection that He is. It allows you to understand your condition and to see the good versus the evil in this decision. But it does not make the decision for you.

In God's call, he puts before man a gift and an invitation. Accept the gift of Jesus dying on the cross in your place, for your sins. Accept the gift and you will be saved. But this choice belongs to man. If is not coerced; it is not forced. It is your free will choice.

In this call a man will see the benefit of seeking after God. In the non-coersion it is man's full choice to accept or reject this offer.

I think what we haven't examined is how and when righteousness is imputed. The implication is that a "truck load" of righteous is imputed at time of conversion but not subsequently. Or is it imputed as we walk out our faith after conversion also?

Careful with implications. In this case, it could be true. Let's look at something:

2 Corinthians 5:21 (NASB)
He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
​

Jesus was made to be sin...our sin. He took it upon Himself and paid the price that we should have had to pay. We in turn become the righteousness of God in Him. We are imputed His righteousness.

But we still have a carnal side (see Rom 7). And we need to make choices. Our spirit is renewed -- born again -- and will lead us into righteousness. We need to listen to this leading and pursue righteousness. We pursue right-doing. God sees us through Jesus righteousness -- in this we are saved. We pursue our righteousness, which is part of our sanctification.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

From Weymouth NT:

1 John 1:6 WNT
6 If, while we are living in darkness, we profess to have fellowship with Him, we speak falsely and are not adhering to the truth.



1 John 1:6 RSV
6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not live according to the truth;



1 John 1:
5. And this is the message that we have heard from Him and announce to you: that God is light and there is no darkness in Him, no, not in any way.
6. If while walking about in darkness we profess to have communion with Him, we speak falsely and are not doing the truth;
7. But if we are walking about in the light as He is in the light, (then) we have communion one with another and the blood of Jesus the Christ His Son cleanses us from every sin;
8. If (while in darkness)* we say this: "we have not sinned" then we delude ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9. If (while in darkness)* we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us the sins and cleanse us from every unrighteousness;
10. If (while in darkness)* we say we have not sinned, a liar we make Him and His word is not in us.

* Assumed by context of previous verses.

Therefore these verses only pertain to believers who are in darkness and claiming they have not sinned.
It is not talking about all Christians... it is only talking about those who are in darkness, out of fellowship, and who claim sin did not get them their.

 

[Dennis Thompson]

I am not a Joseph Prince fan at all. But in regards to this subject, ask yourself "in the scriptures after Jesus gives atonement on the cross, how many scriptures are ther regarding confession of sin?" The answer is 2. Christianity does not begin until atonement of the cross happens. Up until that, Jesus is fulfilling Judeau law.

One of them is James 5:15 and it is not talking about a God-Man relationship, but rather 2 Christian Brothers in conflick. God tells them to confess their faults and he will heal their relationship/friendship. So that leaves us with 1 John 1:9. Now realize, in the scriptures after atonement is given there are many scriptures talking about Christians repenting. But, you can only have one that can even be looked at as Christians having to confess sin to God. Isnt that strange? Something that could be considered so important by so many and yet it has one scripture? Jesus talked about Hell over 300 times and spoke many times on giving. So one scripture? That doesnt make sense.

Now if you do research on the chapter of 1st John 1, you will find that there were Saved and unsaved there. You will find Gnostics attended the fellowship, much like today. There are unsaved in the Churches. The basic beliefs of the Gnosics(Humanists) is that there was no sin. Thats a huge problem. You can't get saved without aknowledging you are a sinner.

If you go back and read some of the beginning scriptures in 1 John 1, Paul is clearly saying to the unbelievers there that he wishes that they could all worship as one. But he is differentiating, clerifying that not all of them can. Is John 3:16 for the believer, or the unbeliever? If you have believed on Jesus, it is no longer pointing to you, but just a focus point of an act of obedience that you took.

Here is a great Analysis and break down by James Owens:

A STUDY OF THE TEXT
The immediate context upon which an understanding of the popular doctrine on
the confession of sin rests is 1 John 1:1-10; 2:1,2. A careful study of these verses
will give us the message that the Holy Spirit wants to convey. As we will see it is a
far different message from the one that is being taught.
An eyewitness testimony about Jesus Christ – 1 John 1:1, 2
John, in these verses, proves beyond any doubt that Jesus Christ was a real person, not a
phantom as some false teachers (probably Gnostics) were teaching. John’s first-hand
account of Christ’s life before and after the resurrection is crucial to the message of this
epistle. If Jesus was less than genuine, then the testimony of 1 John (indeed all of the
New Testament) is a fraud. But John, the last living eyewitness among the apostles,
confirms the genuineness of Jesus Christ, His person, and His work.
The immediate purposes of the epistle – 1 John 1:3, 4
In order to appreciate the two purposes for the writing of 1 John chapter 1, it is important
to first understand the overall purpose of the epistle. That purpose is found in 1 John 5:13
which says, “I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that
you may know that you have eternal life.” Because of false teachers the apostle John
wrote the epistle for the saints to understand what constitutes genuine salvation, who has
it, and who does not.
These “seducers” (1 John 2:26, KJV) apparently not only taught that Jesus had not been a
real person with flesh and blood, but also that salvation had no identifying and
distinguishing features about it. Therefore, throughout the epistle, John presents the
evidence that certain traits do identify one as having an eternal relationship with God the
Father and with Jesus Christ, God’s Son. Furthermore, it proves that those who have this
relationship with the Father and the Son also have a relationship with those who follow
Christ.
The issue of fellowship – 1 John 1:3
In verse 3, John states that he wants his readers to have the same fellowship with the
Father and the Son that he and the other apostles have. In order to understand what John
means we must examine the Biblical meaning of fellowship, especially with God.
The word fellowship means joint-participation. It is used in two separate ways in the
Part 1​

 

[Dennis Thompson]

Part 2

New Testament:
(1) Fellowship between people. It is the result of a common bond and for a common
purpose. The context determines whether the purpose is good or evil and whether it is
permanent or temporary. (See Acts 2:42-46; 2 Corinthians 6:14-18; 1 John 2:19.)
(2) Fellowship with God. The use of this word regarding a relationship between a believer
and God is that it is eternal, changeless, and for the believer’s good. Fellowship with God
is found only four times in the New Testament; three times in this chapter and once in 1
Corinthians 1:9. It is in 1 Corinthians 1:9, when taken in its context, that we discover what
the New Testament teaches about the believer’s fellowship with God.​

In 1 Corinthians 1:2-8 Paul identifies those to whom he is writing as having an

eternal

relationship ​

​

with God. He does so in the following ways:

Verse 2 - They are identified as sanctified in Jesus Christ, called to be holy, and those who
have called upon the name of the Lord Jesus (Romans10:12-13).
Verse 6 - They gave testimony that they had believed the message Paul had preached.
Verse 7 - They gave evidence of having received spiritual gifts, and they were eagerly
awaiting the return of the Lord.
Verse 8 - Paul’s assurance that they were believers is underscored when he assures them
that they will be blameless “on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
Verse 9 - Paul reminds them that all these things are true of them and will be true because
​

​

4
"The popular notion that
one loses his fellowship
with God when he sins is
simply not supported by the
Scriptures."
God had called them into fellowship with His Son. This must mean therefore that
fellowship with God is an eternal relationship. And, because “the gifts and callings of God
are without repentance” (Romans 11:29), Paul’s statements at the beginning of this epistle
are to encourage the saints that their salvation is secure. This eternal relationship with
God guarantees it.
The popular notion that one loses his fellowship with God when he sins is simply not
supported by the Scriptures. Broken fellowship with God is impossible for the one who is
“in Christ.” But then, that only makes sense when one considers all of the scriptures and
uses the words in scripture as the Holy Spirit uses them. Thus, the child of God does not
bounce in and out of fellowship with God. The salvation that Jesus provides is far more
wonderful than that.
Obviously, what the teachers of ​

​

confession of sin are referring to is a loss of present

communion with the Lord. But according to those who teach confession of sin for
fellowship, the reason for the child of God to confess his sins is in order to restore the
sinning saint to the fellowship he enjoyed before he sinned. And they conclude that
restoration can only come about if their sins are forgiven. But now we see that broken
fellowship is impossible between the believer and God. One would have to lose his
salvation for that to happen and that is impossible.
It is vital that we use Biblical words accurately, and this ​

​

is not an example of the proper

use of the word fellowship.
There are those who believe that one can lose his salvation and, because they base that
teaching on 1 John 1:9, it shows the danger of the present-day popular interpretation of
that verse. If one could lose his salvation then the accepted teaching regarding the loss of
fellowship would support that belief. If, when I fail to confess my sins, I am not forgiven
and therefore not in fellowship with God, then I would be lost. This fact underscores the
importance of this subject and the need to get it right.
​

​

​

 

[Dennis Thompson]

Part 3

The basis for John’s joy – 1 John 1:4
The joy of John and those with him is another reason John is writing the epistle. Without
an agreement between saints regarding the basic truths of salvation, it is impossible to
have a close and mature spiritual relationship with one another. The joy of the child of God
is increased greatly when he sees other saved brothers and sisters come to the place of
understanding God’s grace. Understanding God’s grace results in close spiritual
fellowship. Fellowship that is so precious to God’s children.
What a different understanding we have of 1 John 1:4 when we clear up the first error
regarding fellowship with God. Fellowship with God, we find, is not on a human level, but
is used here of a relationship that perfectly resembles one who is born into a family. We
have been erroneously taught that sin in the life destroys our fellowship with God, and only
confession of sin restores that relationship. Now we see that God’s Word does not refer to
daily communion with God, but rather, an eternal relationship. It describes God’s work of
joining the sinner, who is now identified as a believer in Christ, to God forever. Gone is the
fear of not being in fellowship with God because of some forgotten sin that was not
confessed. It is no longer seen as a relationship that depends upon whether we keep
“short accounts with God”, but rather on what God did when He placed us in Christ
forever. This will have further implications as we consider the next error in the current
teaching on confession of sin
The fundamental truth – 1 John 1:5
“This is the message we have heard from Him and declare to you: God is light; in Him
there is no darkness at all.”
This is the key verse of 1 John. The fact that God is light means that He is utter holiness,
righteousness, and purity. There is no darkness at all in Him. That is to say, no sin, no
unrighteousness, and no taint whatsoever. There is no grey area with God. Verses 6-10
are measured by the standard presented in verse 5: God’s righteousness and holiness.
5
Biblical context: contrastive verses
Verses 6-10 are contrastive verses. Verses 6 & 7 are contrasts, while verses 8 & 10 are
contrasted with verse 9. These are all descriptive verses. They do not command anyone to
do anything, but rather, describe the condition of a person if certain things are true of him.
This is a ​

very important truth to keep in mind if we are going to understand the message

taught in these verses.
​

​

The truth about light and darkness
In response to 1 John 1:5 which tells us God is light and in Him is NO DARKNESS, 1 John
1:6, 7 deals with light and darkness in a person’s life and how that identifies him. This, like
the use of the word fellowship, is critical to the proper interpretation of this passage. As we
shall see, the proper understanding of the teaching of light and darkness in the New
Testament will establish a very important truth, namely, that the believer ​

​

always walks in

the light and ​

​

never walks in darkness. Contrariwise, the unbeliever never walks in the light

but ​

​

always walks in darkness. Although the believer may do the deeds of darkness, he is

still in the light. His position in the light never changes. Because he is in Christ Who is light
(John 8:12; Colossians 1:12-13), he will never walk in darkness. It is amazing that so
many have taught that, since the epistle was written to believers, verses 6, 8, and 10 are
describing the child of God and therefore prove that he walks in darkness when he sins.
On this basis they find in this chapter the instruction to confess ones sins before they can
walk in the light again. This misunderstanding could easily have been avoided had they
searched the New Testament regarding the teaching of the believer and his relationship to
light and darkness, something I failed to do for years.
Below are some of the basic scriptures that form the teaching regarding light and
darkness.
“When Jesus spoke again to the people, He said, I am the light of the world, whoever
follows Me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.” John 8:12
“But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to
God, that you may declare the praises of Him Who called you out darkness into His
wonderful light.” 1 Peter 2:9
“But you, brothers, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. You
are all sons of the light and sons of the day. We do not belong to the night or the
darkness.” 1 Thessalonians 5:4-5
“Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness
have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there
between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? “ 2
Corinthians 6:14-15
“For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light
(for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth).“ Ephesians 5:8
-9
​

​

​

 

[Dennis Thompson]

Part 4

The truth is obvious:
When one believes in Christ he receives Christ’s life which is light. He is placed into the
body of Christ. Because Christ is light, the believer, having been baptized into Christ, is
always ​

in the light. So to say that a child of God can ever be in darkness denies the truth

that Christ is light.
​

​

Biblical context: conditional statements
Each of the last five verses in 1 John 1 begins with the words “if we.” In the Greek these
are called third class conditional statements. In effect the statement means: “if we, and we
may or may not.” In other words, the things about which John is writing may or may not
apply to the particular reader. The apparent reason for this is that among the true believers
there were those who were not genuine children of God. What applied to the unbeliever in
verse 6 would not apply to the believer. The opposite would be true in verse 7 and so on.
Many have erroneously concluded that the wording proves that everything that is said in
6
these verses refers to true believers. As we have seen and will continue to see this cannot
possibly be true. The Apostle John is using a literary device. He does so because some
were unsaved among the believers (1 John 2:19, 26; 4:1), while others were undecided
about what constitutes salvation. Hypothetical propositions are presented for each person
to decide objectively whether he is saved or not. The writer to the Hebrews uses this same
device in Hebrews 3:7-14 and 10:22-31.
The Biblical context is descriptive, not prescriptive
As we have noted, the only scripture used to teach confession of sin to God in the New
Testament is in 1 John 1: 9, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive
us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.“ By no measure can this verse be used
to prescribe a remedy for the sin of the believer because it is not an imperative in the
Greek and is not so even in the English. ​

​

God is not commanding a person to do

something. ​

​

Rather, he is describing the actions of someone who comes to the conclusion

that he is a sinner and is guilty as charged by God. This teaching is far different from what
we have been taught and led to believe. 1 John 1:9 addresses the unsaved person who
finally agrees with God about his sin and then places trust in Christ as his sin bearer.
​

​

The truth about the context
Having established the foundational truth that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all,
John presents two general categories of people. Those who walk in darkness and are
unsaved (verse 6), and those who walk in the light and are saved (verse 7). A closer
examination of these two verses establishes the basic interpretation of them.
In verse 6 we see that no matter what a person may say, if he is walking in darkness he
does not have an eternal relationship with God through faith in Jesus Christ.
Walking in Darkness - The Characteristics
The book of 1 John gives us some descriptive traits of one who is walking in darkness:
1.He gives no evidence of loving God - 4:20.
2.He does not love the brothers in Christ - 4:20; 2:9,11.
3.He does not keep Christ’s commandments - 2:29; 5:2-3.
4.He loves the world - 2:15.
5.He deserts the brothers - 2:19, 24; 3:14; 4:20.
6.He denies the Son - 2:22-23.
7.He sins as he did before - 3:8,10.
8.He denies that Jesus had a human body - 4:3.
9.He does not believe the record that God gave of His Son - 5:10-12.
Conclusion - These are the traits of an unsaved person - one who is walking in darkness.
In verse 7 we see the continual work of the blood of Christ. The ones who “walk in the
light”, like the ones walking in darkness, will have certain distinguishing characteristics
about their lives:
1.They will carry out the commands of Christ - 2:3, 5, 6.
2.They will love the brothers (fellow believers) - 2:9, 11.
3.They will not love the world for the love of the Father is in them - 2:15; 4:7, 16,
19.
4.They will not desert the brothers - 2:19; 3:14; 4:7.
5.They will continue to believe what they started out believing - 2:24.
6.They will keep themselves pure - 3:2-3.
7.They will not sin as they used to - 3:9.
8.They will have compassion on the brothers - 3:16, 19.
7
9.They believe that Jesus Christ came in the flesh - 4:2.
10.They believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God - 4:15.
Conclusion - These are the traits of saved people, the ones who are walking in the light,
because they are in the Light eternally. That fact means that when they sin they are being
cleansed of that sin automatically. That cleansing, just like the cleansing at the point of
salvation, takes place apart from any self-works or merit on their part.
Note - The truth that the believer is always being cleansed from sin finds its authority from
the Greek text. 1 John 1:7 states: “and the blood of Jesus, His Son, purifies us from all
sin.” The word purifies (cleanses in the King James Version) conveys the idea in the Greek
of a work that begins at a point in time and continues without stopping. Thus the believer
never experiences a time, day or night, when he is not being cleansed from all sin. The
cleansing work of Christ never depends on, or waits on, something that the sinning saint is
required to do. Nor does sin cause the saints fellowship to be broken with God. In other
words, God is not waiting to restore fellowship, because it was never broken to begin with.
​

 

[Dennis Thompson]

Part 5

The Implication of Constant Cleansing
This glorious truth illuminates the greatness of God’s plan of salvation. in his salvation but
to believe in Jesus, so the believer has no part in remaining forgiven and justified. His
position is always a child of God who is righteous and free from sin—all sin (Hebrews 10:
14; Colossians 1:22-22).
Verse 8 - The Unsaved Person’s Resistance to The Truth
This verse is a description of an unsaved person. He does not believe that he is a sinner.
He does not believe he is guilty of sin. He is deceived and denies the truth about his
condition. Not having Christ, this person does not have the truth. The moment a person
believes the truth about himself he turns to Christ by faith and is saved.
Now, as one can see, this verse could not be a description of a saved person. In context
we can clearly see that verse 6 describes an unsaved person, verse 7 describes a saved
person, and verse 8 describes an unsaved person. Each verse beginning with verse 6
alternates in its description between an unsaved and a saved person
Verse 9 - The Only Remedy For Forgiveness
This verse, to be consistent with the flow of the text, should refer to a saved person, and it
does. But it also shows the reason he is saved. It shows the absolute necessity for an
unbeliever to come to the acknowledgment that he is a sinner and is guilty of sin. In fact,
John says the moment a person acknowledges his sin, he is forgiven and cleansed from
all unrighteousness.
Is This The Plan Of Salvation?
Although many Christians have used this verse in evangelism, many others object to its
use for that purpose because it does not contain the word believe. And, of course, faith is
absolutely essential to the salvation of anyone.
While we do not believe that John was using this verse to lead people to Christ, it can
certainly be used for that purpose. However, John is actually showing the absolute
necessity of one coming to the realization that he is a sinner before he can ever be
forgiven and cleansed of sin. So this verse is instructive, not evangelistic. As we examine
this verse more closely the truth found here becomes clear.
“If we confess our sins” - The word confess in the Greek means to say the same thing; to
agree with; to recognize. It does not instruct us to confess or agree with anyone in
particular concerning our guilt of sin. This idea, I believe, is a carry-over from the Roman
Catholic Church doctrine. The Reformers, for all the good that they did in leading people
out of the bondage of a false system of salvation, never fully divorced themselves from all
of the Catholic teachings. In my opinion, the word “confess”, has done more damage in the
Church of Jesus Christ than any other single word in the Bible. This is not to say that there
is any thing wrong with the word—there is not. But because of the false teaching that has
"The cleansing work of
Christ never depends on, or
waits on, something that
the sinning saint is required
to do."
8
been attached to the word confess, it is nearly impossible to get most people to consider a
different meaning.
Confess and Repent
If we can see this word in the light of repentance, it will help us to understand this verse.
Repentance means a change of mind. It does not refer to a change of direction, or lifestyle
as many have taught. But the idea of a change of mind is crucial to each person if he
would have his sins forgiven and become a reconciled child of God.
The injunction to repent is used in the gospel message in a number of places in Acts. In
fact, it is used in place of believe in several verses:
“Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out.” Acts 3:19
“In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now He commands all people
everywhere to repent.” Acts 17:30
“Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness
of your sins.” Acts 2:38
“I preached that they should repent and turn to God.” Acts 26:20
What did these people who heard the gospel have to change their minds about? They had
to change their minds about their spiritual condition. First of all, they had to be convinced
that they were sinners. Paul, in Romans chapters 3 and 7, establishes the reason for the
Law. It was to convict and convince people that they are sinners and that sin is
exceedingly sinful (Romans 7:13). In 1 Timothy 1:8-11, Paul shows that the Law was made
for the unsaved person. In Galatians 3:23-24, Paul proves that the Law was a
schoolmaster to bring us to Christ.
Now, after the convicting work of the Law was accomplished and the sinner changed his
mind and saw himself as he really was, a sinner, and agreed with God (confessed), then
he would turn to Christ Who was his only hope for salvation. Therefore, confession, or
agreeing with God about our sins, was the evidence of a change of mind or repentance. It
was at this time that the person would believe in Jesus as his sin-bearer.
All of this happens at the same time. When one changes his mind about being a sinner he
has confessed or agreed with God. But that only happens to those who then trust Christ as
saviour; one is inextricably linked to the other.
“He is faithful” – 1 John 1:9
The Lord never fails to forgive anyone who comes to Him through His Son. “All that the
Father gives Me will come to Me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away” (John
6:37). After all, this was the whole purpose of His salvation plan.
“And just to forgive” – 1 John 1:9
The word ​

just means righteous. Because of His holiness, God could not forgive sin without

judging it, or else He would offend His righteousness. If, however, He judged the sinner,
the sinner would be lost forever. Thus, the perfect lamb of God died in our place. He was
judged for our sins. He became sin for the world and when He died, the world’s sins were
judged and God could remain righteous when He forgave a person’s sins. What a plan!
​

​

“​

 

[Dennis Thompson]

Part 6
And to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” – 1 John 1:9

​

​

Sin forgiven must also be sin cleansed. And this is the first cleansing which happens the
moment we agree with God about our sins and believe in Christ.
Note that this cleansing is from all “unrighteousness.” In verse 7, however, we note that
the believer is continually being cleansed from all “sin.” Why the difference? The reason is
that a believer has been made righteous and can never be charged with unrighteousness.
Only the unsaved are unrighteous, having not been made righteous by God at the point of
9
salvation. Therefore the sins of those who are saved are never classified as
unrighteousness. That charge is reserved for the unsaved alone.
The cleansing of the believer from all unrighteousness is a once-for-all cleansing. Once he
believes in the Lord Jesus he is made righteous and can never again be charged with
unrighteousness. See Colossians 1:21-22.
Again it must be remembered that once the sinner comes to Christ he not only receives
forgiveness and initial cleansing from all unrighteousness, but now his sins are continually
being cleansed, automatically, by the blood of Christ. See 1 John 1:7.
The Hardened Heart Of Unbelief – 1 John 1:10
This verse, like verses 6 and 8, refers to an unbeliever. The unbeliever is described as one
who insists that he has not sinned. The unbeliever denies that he is a sinner and declares
that God is a liar. God’s Word could not possibly be in him. This also means that the truth
is not in him. Without the truth abiding in him he cannot possibly see himself as he really is
or see the living God as He is. 1 John 5:10 states, “Anyone who believes in the Son of
God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out
to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about His Son.”
Furthermore, in John 5:38 we read, “Nor does His word dwell in you, for you do not believe
the One He sent.”
Until they repent (change their minds) and confess (acknowledge the truth) about being a
sinner, they will never be saved and are lost eternally.
Notice that “if we say” is the way each verse begins when describing the unsaved. The
point we need to understand is that just because a person says something is true does not
make it true! The truth must be validated by believing the truth and acting upon it.
The Ongoing Work Of Christ For Believers - 1 John 2:1-2
In order to understand the context of 1 John 1:9, it is necessary to include the first two
verses of 1 John chapter 2.
Verse 1 – Just because the apostle John has acknowledged that the child of God does sin
(1:7), does not mean he is now free to live the way he chooses. John hastens to exhort the
believer not to sin. The Bible never excuses sin or takes it lightly. But if the believer does
sin, he has an advocate (a representative before God the Father), Jesus Christ.
The end of 1 John 2:1 declares Christ as “The Righteous.” This title shows why He is
qualified to be our advocate. Who else could possibly represent God’s children when they
sin? Only God’s Son, the sinless One, Whose blood was shed for the sins of the whole
world, is qualified.
The fact that Jesus’ advocacy is successful is proven by the cleansing work in the child of
God’s life. What a thought!
Imagine a salvation so complete that at the moment of salvation it begins to cleanse the
sinner and never stops until the saint is taken home to be with the Lord! And the work is
automatic and continuous. Only God in His grace could devise such a plan.
Verse 2 - “propitiation” means a satisfaction. Jesus’ death perfectly satisfied God’s
demand for a once-for-all sacrifice for sin. He “became sin for us” (2 Corinthians 5:21).
And it was for all, once-for-all.
Nothing is left for the believer to do. It has all been done. It is indeed “finished”, just as
Jesus said on the cross. (John 19:30)
​

 

[Dennis Thompson]

Part 7

CONCLUSION
Our study of this passage that has been so misunderstood shows that John is describing
both the saved and the unsaved. These are descriptive, not prescriptive verses. In other
words, there is no command to do anything in any of these verses including verse 9.
The gauge for salvation is whether one is in the light or in the darkness. The moment one
receives Christ as his saviour, he is in the light. And that fact, walking in the light, never
"Imagine a salvation so
complete that at the
moment of salvation it
begins to cleanse the sinner
and never stops until the
saint is taken home to be
with the Lord!."
10
changes regardless of the state of his spiritual walk. He may do the deeds of darkness, but
he can never again walk in darkness. This is what makes sin so out of place and out of
character in a believer’s life.
The wonder of our salvation is that we are continually being cleansed (1:7). Since that is
true, it destroys the argument that sin in the believer’s life must be confessed in order to
be cleansed. In other words, if we are continually being cleansed, why would we seek
forgiveness by confessing our sins? If a believer is cleansed from all unrighteousness then
he must be forgiven. God would not need to cleanse a person who was already fully
cleansed by the blood of Christ.
But when we understand that verses 6, 8, and 10 identify a person who is unsaved and is
still in need of Christ’s redemptive work, verse 9 then becomes the answer to that need.
Since the unsaved person refuses to believe God’s assessment, that he is a sinner, the
truth declared in verse 9 becomes the key to God’s work for forgiveness and cleansing.
Indeed, only those who genuinely see themselves as God sees them will believe in the
Lord Jesus as their saviour. The unsaved never genuinely and knowingly acknowledge
their sin, until the time that they also trust the Sinbearer—Jesus Christ. And it is His
sacrifice and His alone that provides forgiveness for anyone.
The fact that Jesus died for ​

all means that all are eligible for salvation. The key to

“believing faith” for salvation from the penalty of sin is first coming to the place of seeing
our bankrupt state before God. That person, is the only one God saves. He always saves
the one who acknowledges his sinful condition and believes in Jesus Christ as the
Sinbearer.
​

​

WHAT DOES A CHRISTIAN DO ABOUT SIN?
Often people get very upset when they hear that the child of God does not have to confess
his sins. Some respond, “I suppose then a Christian can go out and live as he pleases?“
Well, as a matter of fact, he can. The Father has given the child of God the freedom to
make choices, and his choices can be wrong. And beside that, who of us have not lived as
we pleased at times? The epistles certainly prove that the apostles had to deal with this
problem in the early church. How they dealt with it is instructive.
Paul had his hands full with the Corinthians. Among other things, they were guilty of
fornication. In 1 Corinthians 6:9-20, he addresses the problem. In these verses he shows
just how uncharacteristic sin is for the one who had been washed, sanctified, and justified
“in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.” He exhorts them to flee
fornication (verse 18) because their bodies were the temple of the Holy Spirit and they
were no longer their own. Paul reminds them that they had been bought with a price (the
precious blood of Christ) and therefore were to glorify God in their bodies (verses 19-20).
In the midst of this teaching, Paul acknowledges that all things are “lawful unto me” (KJV)
or within my power, but not all things are “ expedient “(KJV) or profitable. How true this is,
not only because the word of God states it, but because the experience of every child of
God demonstrates it. This is why most of the New Testament epistles are corrective. For
instance, in Romans 6:12, Paul says, “Let not sin....reign in your mortal bodies.” The thrust
of this verse in the Greek is to stop allowing sin to reign in your body. This was actually
happening among the saints in Rome. Paul follows this up in verse 13 by saying literally,
“yielding your members as instruments of unrighteousness.” They could and they were
actually yielding their bodies to unrighteousness. But they were to be doing just the
opposite in light of their exalted position in Christ.
Does this excuse a believer who engages in sin? Absolutely not! But the word of God
anticipates that he will, and has made provision for all sin by continually cleansing him.
God has given the believer the resources to NOT SIN. Two passages are proof of this
wonderful fact:
1.God always makes a way of escape from temptation - 1 Corinthians 10:13
“No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; He will
not let you be tempted beyond you can bear. But when you are tempted, He will also
11
provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.”
2.We will not sin when the Holy Spirit is in control - Galatians 5:16
“So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature (flesh).”
So, what is the answer to sin in our lives? Is it to confess that sin to God? What good will
that do? He has already forgiven you of the sin and cleansed you. Will confession do any
more for the saint than God has already done? No! It may make you feel good, but there is
no scripture that instructs you to do anything in order to feel good.
No, the need is repentance, a change of mind regarding ones sin and a turning away from
that sin. That will be followed at the same time by a turning to the Spirit who will lead the
saint in paths of righteousness. Of course when my sin hurts another person, I should
promptly admit it to the person I’ve hurt and ask his forgiveness. The Bible does teach that
kind of confession (Matthew 18:15-17; James 5:16).
The Lord saved us to bring forth righteousness (1 Peter 1:15-16). It was sin that kept us
from glorifying God (Romans 3:23). For this reason the heavenly Father is always
chastening (child-training) His sons and daughters so that they might bring forth
righteousness (Hebrews 12: 5-11).
No, the child of God may grieve over his sins and kick himself for being such a jerk; he
may even discuss his sin with the Heavenly Father and tell Him he is sorry (what child of
God has not done that?), but he is never instructed to do so, and his position before God
never changes whether he does these things or not. God’s work goes on in our lives
regardless of our response. That is grace, and that is God’s amazing salvation. And it is
this grace that instructs us regarding our conduct.
Titus 2:11-14 states:
“For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It teaches us to say
No to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives
in this present age. While we wait for the blessed hope the glorious appearing of our great
God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness
and to purify for Himself a people that are His very own, eager to do what is good.”
Will you enter into God’s marvelous grace and into a more abundant life? A life that is truly
free?​

Copyright 2004 by James. R. Owen, Sr. All rights reserved.

​

 

[Pastor Jim Kibler]

John was writing to the believers and instructing them on how to keep themselves Righteous before God.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

I am not a Joseph Prince fan at all.

That's too bad. I'll pray for you.

Here is a great Analysis and break down by James Owens

While I read a little (7 posts!!!!) of what Owens said, I have to ask this simple question:

Who is James R. Owens, Sr.?
​

....tick tock...tick tock....

Ok, i'm back. I read (speedily, but nonetheless read) the posts.

I don't see the issue. Are you saying that although you are "not a Joseph Prince fan at all" that you nonetheless agree with him on this issue? For the 7 posts do nothing to come against Joseph's message. Owen's message is very much in agreement with Prince on 1 John 1:9.

So do I have it right? You have no issue with Prince on this message?

----

On another matter. This large posting of Owens message bumps into a few forum rules -- ie: when quoting another's copyrighted work: "must not exceed 20% of the total work" and "must be linked to the web page from which it was taken" .... besides other considerations it makes it difficult to actually have a single conversation about it; better to post a link and ask people to go read it. -- and the one that can be concerning is that in a congregational forum, such as this Word of Faith forum, one cannot teach if (1) they are not Word/Faith, and (2) the message is contrary to the Statement of Faith for the congregation, Word/Faith in this case.

We welcome your fellowship and your questions about Word/Faith. But when you post 7 posts all at once I get leary of having something shoved down my throat. Doesn't seem to be the case here, but perhaps you see what I mean.....

God bless!

 

[Dennis Thompson]

I would have put it in a link, but being a new poster I couldnt. James Owens is a lot more stable than Joseph Prince. My discernment in me says, Prince...who are you? I wouldnt listen to him

 

[Alive_Again]

Our works reflect our faith and our heart condition. If we're walking in love, we're walking in the light. Our works will show this. It will be demonstrated by our love, not just our profession. Many will make this profession in the end (having been deceived) .We know positionally that our "own" works of the flesh will never justify us in the sight of God. Our Spirit led works fulfill righteousness.

If we harden our hearts, we sin and violate the covenant God made with us. Fortunately the covenant includes "if we sin". The desciption given to us is "defilement, which means unclean. In the OT, you went outside the camp until you were cleansed. This was done ritually the, but we have the blood of Jesus now.

Will you be on the ones told that you didn't clothe the naked, feed the hungry, visit the prisoners, etc. and depart into everlasting fire? There are some that don't even believe that the everlasting fire is everlasting. We all have to be admonished to obedience. When we read this we know that the Word will judge us one day, and we want to be on the right side of grace. A "one time" "acceptance" is not going to carry us.

These are works btw, Jesus is pointing to, not for works sake, and we're "working" for our salvation, but rather we're "working out" our salvation with fear and trembling. These works reflect the heart condition and faith this believer had.

It has always been understood in Jewish circles, and in the early Christian church that the covenant walk of a believer had to be maintained. In most cultures in the modern era, we don't have a good understanding of the sacredness of a covenant and how both parties commit to it. Only in the last 100 years or so have believers had the audacity to imply that they will always go to Heaven simply because they received the gift of a birthright.

Even anointed preachers of the gospel, who do so well, take a left turn by believing in this self-fulfilling covenant of God by virtue of a "sealing".

I don't want to offend anyone (truly), but I personally believe it is a "cult-like" demonic influence on the church, that steers a believer from the fear of the Lord into a perversion of grace provided by God to His people.

 

[Laoshir]

I heard of Joseph Prince last year and have followed his teachings extensively. He is know as the "Word of Grace" Teacher but his teaching really needs to be in check with the word of God. I also sense pseudo-Word of Faith teaching as well. Anyway he credits Kenneth Hagin as helping him understand the Wordl.

His Book Destined to Reign bears "caution to the wind."

Since we are on the subject of 1 John 1:9 let me I believe it was written for the believer from reading several commentaries.

In his book Prince thinks we confess our "forgiven" sins because we are already forgiven. I quote:

"Listen carefully: We don't have to confess our sins in order to be forgiven. We confess our sins because we are already forgiven. (p. 104)"

Wow! Here is what I believe is the real truth of God. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

With that said, Joseph Prince is one to bear caution with, though some of his teaching seems theological sound. I still keep him in check.

Thanks for everybody's thoughts on this individual. We need too be really careful about today's teachings. Whether they stem from a mega-church or small church Pastor.

Blessings to all

 

[Gottservant]

perfect love casts out fear

if you still need to be sanctified, as a rule, you are still tempted to fear, as a rule, and therefore do not love, as a rule

it is your choice, this is the nature of free will

 

[Alive_Again]

Just think of God as a person. He makes rules and if we don't follow them, we must be reconciled. Think of Jesus as someone who made this possible. He didn't reconcile us. We are TO BE reconciled. He paid the same price for everyone to enable reconciliation with God. Still, people go to Hell for not being reconciled.

In a relationship, people make mistakes and transgress. When they do, if you are going to have an intimate relationship where God "knows you", then their must be reconciliation. To assume you always have it is gross darkness. To assume that God is always willing if you meet the conditions, is to have faith.

People dance and jump for joy that they are always reconciled even though they go get drunk every weekend, don't guard their mouth, and do things that are abominable to God. If they don't reconcile, they will be told that He doesn't know them and receive the reward of the unrighteous. This is very serious.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

People dance and jump for joy that they are always reconciled even though they go get drunk every weekend, don't guard their mouth, and do things that are abominable to God. If they don't reconcile, they will be told that He doesn't know them and receive the reward of the unrighteous. This is very serious.

Yes, very serious. Just not salvific for the born again believer. To believe that it is you must throw out too many scriptures.