Joseph Prince interpretation of 1 John 1:9

[Alive_Again]

Confessions of sins did not liberate me. It just made me so conscious of sin that I almost went over the edge.

This teaching on the confession of sins has caused so much bondage and oppression in the church. Sincere, well-meaning believers live in fear that they have not searched their hearts diligently enough to discover and confess every sin that they have committed.

I''m sorry that you've heard it in the manner that you have. We couldn't possibly identify all of our sins. We can though, recognize the Holy Spirit's conviction when we turn aside from His promptings and seek forgiveness. It's not that we don't qualify for forgiveness when we fail to identify individual sins, we must identify our separation from the unity of spirits that we enjoy as children of God. God is a person and He only wants us to acknowledge our guilt before Him (as appropriate). For two to walk together, they must be in agreement.

In wanting to change, sometimes I get lost in calling each behavior a sin, but I'll get lost and just say, "There are too many to confess, but please forgive me for transgressing and restore me to your fellowship, by your precious blood." It may be that the Holy Spirit takes me back to specific sins (often later) and I am responsible to affect change. Sometimes I'll still know Him, but from afar. Repentance is a lifestyle.

The forgiveness of sins is established on unmerited favor. You cannot earn it with your confessions.

Of course not. See yourself in a relationship with a loved one (wife/husband). You don't "earn" your forgiveness as though it is owed when you confess. You submit yourself to them in humility and ask for mercy. It is granted based on their faithfulness to the convenant (in this case).

So let's have clarity on this issue: Are you right with God because you have confessed all your sins perfectly, or because of the one sacrifice of Jesus for sins forever?

The clarity is not that you confessed, "accurately" identifying each offensive behavior. It is that you turned to the Lord in sincerity to turn from your ways to His. If He showed you something specifically that He wants you to turn from, it's that you agree to do so, asking for grace to enable this to happen (even if you sin 70 x 7 times). Jesus made the sacrifice once for all who would do this. It does not clear you forever, because you repented once.

It's the lost sheep that He leaves the 99 for (not the goats). They really are "lost". When a sheep strays from the shepherd and the flock, it becomes vulnerable to wolves. It is up to us to repent when we lose our way. Jesus still wants us, but it is us who must respond to the call. He won't do it for us.

If Jesus is not actually Lord of your life, you are a worker of iniquity. There's no getting around it. It doesn't matter if you're a believer or not. He's looking for those who know Him intimately. You're responsible to walk in the light that you have. We all must judge our own fruits and determine if this is so, because it will be too late when we die. Don't listen to preachers who tell you that you don't need to repent for your sins (not if, but when you sin). They are deceived. People can love God and even be anointed, and still miss it on this issue. We have the entire Bible to demonstrate the importance of repentance and faithfulness to God and He never changes.

 

[Alive_Again]

...Before I go into the context of 1 John 1:9, let me establish first that you cannot build a doctrine based on one verse in the Bible. The teaching needs to be confirmed and established by various verses in the Bible before it can be sound.

That's absolutely correct. People take a couple of verses here and there and make it where you can never fail the grace of God anymore; where you don't have to guard your heart any more. Where you don't have to have fruits meet for repentance, and claim that it's a "done deal". We are still required to walk in the law He puts into your heart. If you don't do it at least to a point, you won't really have faith (even if you once had it). You won't have faith because you won't be hearing.

If you continually harden your heart, your fruit will become rotten. Your mouth will become froward, and your efforts to fulfill righteousness in love will become hypocrisy. The flesh man is totally incapable of walking in supernatural love. You can only do this by abiding in His Word and love.

Now, have you ever wondered why Paul, the apostle of God's unmerited favor, the man who wrote over two-thirds of the new covenant epistles, did not make the slightest mention of "confession of sins" to all the churches he wrote to?

Paul always talked about repentance and faith. You cannot really repent without confessing your sins (as appropriate). It takes the Blood of Jesus to be forgiven and if you walk amiss, you need to be cleansed, and that means confession. John walked closely with Jesus and he knew exactly what Jesus wanted from us.

..If our forgiveness of sins is indeed contingent on our confession of sins, hasn't he done us a great injustice by not including this teaching in any of his letters?

They are told from the beginning to repent and believe the gospel. It's not a one time thing.

1 John 1:9 Was Written To The Gnostics
...When you are reading chapter 1 of 1 John, one of the things that you need to be clear about is WHOM it was written to.

The letters were to the churches. We don't disregard the revelation to the church (intended for the church) because a letter was addressed to "the elect lady", or anyone else.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
1 John 1:8-10

I can tell you for certain (not knowing you), that you have sinned as a believer. Paul said that there is "sin that so easily besets us". We have all sinned. We all go the rounds in this world and become offensive to others (at times), we take on defilement by not forgiving others (who offend), etc. We may repent quickly, because our fruit turns sour immediately, but we're liars if we say we haven't sinned (if we do things like this). If you backslide, you might start drinking, doing drugs, live a lie, become law breakers, fornicators with the world, etc. We might become lovers of the world, become covetous, etc. and walk as an enemy of God. This absolutely requires repentance and forgiveness and no defilement will enter into Heaven.

Let's be clear that if you do not forgive those who offend you, you won't be getting into Heaven either. It's vital that everyone preaches this, because you're cooperating in a deception to give anyone the impression that you can.

 

[dominion2013]

[FONT=&quot]I think confessing the lack of exercise of faith in His grace (which is the cause of all sins and transgressions) to God ought to be held prior to confession after committing sins. Regarding the latter, I was meditating and I came across the following verses. I would like to place the following reference verses in perspective for fellowship Brothers.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Confession of sins done by unbelievers: Matt 3: 6, Mark 1: 5;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Confession to one another: Jam 5: 16, Matt 18: 15, Luke 17: 3;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Confession of sins done by believers: Acts 19: 18, Ps 32: 5;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Thus we see confession of sins done in 3 categories.[/FONT]

 

[Alive_Again]

Why don't you copy and paste them from some Bible software (or online)?

AA

 

[dominion2013]

There are two types of confession with regard to 1 John 1: 9:

1. One is the orthodox one where sin is confessed to be predominantly delivered from guilt. People who do this at times get back to the old way of life.

2. The other confession is reformative and does not just focus on deliverance from guilt but it focusses on exercising faith in His Grace to overcome the power or law of sin that causes acts of sin.

Hence we do not have to confuse this reformative confession with the orthodox one and end up neglecting the continuance of faith in His Grace that alone sets a born-again person free from the power or law of sin that causes acts of sin.

If a Biblical interpretation or doctrine (like once saved ever saved) is going to stop born-again people from continuing believing in His Grace to overcome the power or law of sin, then is such a doctrine or interpretation is Biblical?

 

[taygirl28]

Joseph Prince does not deny the presence of sin in our lives! however, he does not believe in God punishing us believers. All of our sin has been punished out on Jesus on the Cross. So if we were to be punished, God would be punishing twice! which would be unjust. However, we still experience natural consequences due to our sin! But these arent punishments from God. They are simply things that just happen. For example, if you have sex, you might get pregnant. This is not a punishment from God! but simply a natural consequence. The reason why we dont sin is because it has no benefit in life! All it does is bring harm. Sin is still real for believers, however, we are completely forgiven, so it holds no power over our eternity.

 

[dominion2013]

Quote: “Joseph Prince does not deny the presence of sin in our lives!”

Dear Sister taygirl28, I appreciate your clarification. I agree. However, the issue is not the denial of sin in one’s life. The issue is that His Grace has condemned (Rom 8: 3) and destroyed sin (sinful nature) altogether (Rom 7: 8). All that God loves from us is to exercise faith in His Grace and take it. Simple. In other words, the sin (sinful nature) which is the root that causes acts of sin is denied life and existence. Glory be to His Grace! Subsequently the acts of sin wither up and dry off.

Quote: “however, he does not believe in God punishing us believers”.

Very true. I perfectly agree. God does not "react" by punishing for acts of sin. He also does not allow satan to afflict as per Rev 12: 10. He does not chastise to sanctify because it is faith in His Grace that sanctifies (Acts 26: 18 – “inheritance of those sanctified by faith”). Afflictions do not sanctify. Instead faith sanctifies. That is, as you would believe, God does not react. Instead He is proactive. For the sake of His born-again children He will do anything to be proactive to bring them back to exercise faith in His Grace that destroyed sin.


Quote: “Sin is still real for believers”.

Sister, do we have to glorify sin’s power and reality? Don’t you think that there is a sense of helplessness in the hearts of Believers? Why not say, “His Grace that condemned and destroyed sin is real?” All that God wants is the continual faith in His Grace. Is there any other power to destroy sin? Why bypass this truth and say, “everyone’s forgiven and so let’s not bother destroying the sinful nature. Instead let’s allow the sinful nature to rule us and make us sin”?

 

[Dale Turenne]

1 John 1:9-10 NASB If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (10) If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

The Joseph Prince intepretation of 1 John 1:9 (as I understand him) is that this scripture is not for Christians. This is a position I find hard to follow. For instance, how am I to understand from the context of this passage that these verses are not written to Christians??? Is this now a standard WoF position or just those that follow the teachings of Joseph Prince?

Do the followers of the teachings of Joseph Prince teach that there is no need for sanctification? I understand Romans 4:8, that sin is no longer imputed to us, but I've always understood that there is still a sin problem, even in believers down here on earth, for those of us who are not sinlessly perfect. God may not impute it to us, to our account, but there can still be sin in our lives. Am I wrong in this?

So if 1 John 1:9 is about sanctification, rather than justification, I see no contradiction between it and Romans 4:8. If its about justification only, as Prince appears to believe, then I see why he wants to relegate it to unbelievers only.

Whilst I have enjoyed much of Prince's teaching in many areas I really struggle with his position on 1 John 1:9. I still see a need for sanctification today. Whilst I acknowledge that its a work of the Holy Spirit I see it at least requiring our co-operation with the Spirit.

In some context we read

1 John 1:4-2:1
And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
KJV

The letter was not written to the unsaved but the saved, the unsaved are not little children and there joy will not be full, they do not walk in fellowship with God. The whole chapter of 1st John is telling us what a true christian is and what a false christian is. I would very strongly disagree with the statement that vse 9 is not for the Christian.

 

[Dale Turenne]

Quote: “Joseph Prince does not deny the presence of sin in our lives!”

Dear Sister taygirl28, I appreciate your clarification. I agree. However, the issue is not the denial of sin in one’s life. The issue is that His Grace has condemned (Rom 8: 3) and destroyed sin (sinful nature) altogether (Rom 7: 8). All that God loves from us is to exercise faith in His Grace and take it. Simple. In other words, the sin (sinful nature) which is the root that causes acts of sin is denied life and existence. Glory be to His Grace! Subsequently the acts of sin wither up and dry off.

Quote: “however, he does not believe in God punishing us believers”.

Very true. I perfectly agree. God does not "react" by punishing for acts of sin. He also does not allow satan to afflict as per Rev 12: 10. He does not chastise to sanctify because it is faith in His Grace that sanctifies (Acts 26: 18 – “inheritance of those sanctified by faith”). Afflictions do not sanctify. Instead faith sanctifies. That is, as you would believe, God does not react. Instead He is proactive. For the sake of His born-again children He will do anything to be proactive to bring them back to exercise faith in His Grace that destroyed sin.


Quote: “Sin is still real for believers”.

Sister, do we have to glorify sin’s power and reality? Don’t you think that there is a sense of helplessness in the hearts of Believers? Why not say, “His Grace that condemned and destroyed sin is real?” All that God wants is the continual faith in His Grace. Is there any other power to destroy sin? Why bypass this truth and say, “everyone’s forgiven and so let’s not bother destroying the sinful nature. Instead let’s allow the sinful nature to rule us and make us sin”?

Heb 12:4-14
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.
14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
KJV

 

[Alive_Again]

Quote: “however, he does not believe in God punishing us believers”.

Very true. I perfectly agree. God does not "react" by punishing for acts of sin.

God is no respecter of persons in judgment. He also by no means clears the guilty. You must repent to be forgiven. God is a person. There is an inheritance for transgressors, fools, sinners, those who turn from Him, etc. It does not matter if you once agreed to love God, believed He rose from the dead or not. These things are necessary to receive the Lordship of Jesus, but God expects obedience. If we sin, we MUST repent. There is no way around it.

God is going to cast out many "sons of the kingdom" into the outer darkness, and that is NOT part of Heaven. All those who offend and make a lie. Can a believer do that? Absolutely! Is there reason to take our walks seriously (the race)? Yes! If you think the race is over, then you won't take your walk with the right seriousness.

Picture in your mind if you suddenly received the revelation that God was going to hold you accountable for your sins if you didn't repent. That your defilement might bar you from the kingdom. (He draws us to repent.) Wouldn't you rise up then and make sure you didn't do these things? That you didn't excuse yourself? That you didn't proclaim to others that their race was over?

It is a deliberate walk to not give in to your flesh. God is not looking of a reason to cast us out. He does convict and draw us to repentance. The grace of God leads us to repentance. Yet, those who work abominations, or are unrepentant transgressors will be judged at death with who we commonly refer to as "sinners" (those who sin).

Evangelical Christianity mistakenly lumps all those who's very life in darkness as the only "sinners". Believers are always supposedly righteous, but John told us not to be deceived. Your fruit will reflect your righeousness and you can go in and out of that as you choose which of your two natures to walk in.

Paul tells us to "be not deceived". No vain words to "hold fast to". If we do certain things, they bring judgment not repented of. We're in a different covenant than the Law of ordinances, but He is the same.

It doesn't matter what preacher is out there proclaiming this and how anointed they might ordinarily be.

He also does not allow satan to afflict as per Rev 12: 10.

What about all of these spirits of infirmity going around afflicting the children? Jesus worked to set them free, but they had to come to Him repentantly.

...For the sake of His born-again children He will do anything to be proactive to bring them back to exercise faith in His Grace that destroyed sin.

He does strive to bring the "lost sheep" and the prodigal sons who are dead to Him back. He looks out daily for their return, but many will not.

Quote: “Sin is still real for believers”.

...All that God wants is the continual faith in His Grace.

Grace to obtain mercy when needed. If you don't need it after becoming born again, why bother to ask for it? Grace enables you to come and receive (with repentance), it does not throw pearls at swine. Only those with the right heart condition (the humble, poor in spirit, repentant believer) to obtain.

Grace gives you ability to walk in the divine nature (if we abide in it) and escape corruption in the world. It is walked in by choice and your race is to fulfill the calling of God in this world free from the hindrances of sin; unspotted from the world, and blameless before Him.

 

[dominion2013]

Quote: "The letter was not written to the unsaved but the saved, the unsaved are not little children and there joy will not be full, they do not walk in fellowship with God. The whole chapter of 1st John is telling us what a true christian is and what a false christian is".

The above quote appears very reasonable.

2. I think, satan tries to destroy faith, so that people stop believing His Grace (which destroyed sin and set us apart from the sinful nature). satan also seems to make God's people believe ONLY in the concept of “once forgiven ever forgiven” and also seems to make them stop believing His Grace (which destroyed sin and set us apart from the sinful nature).

We must pray and believe for the church to be protected.

 

[dominion2013]

Quote: "The letter was not written to the unsaved but the saved, the unsaved are not little children and there joy will not be full, they do not walk in fellowship with God. The whole chapter of 1st John is telling us what a true christian is and what a false christian is".

The above quote appears very reasonable.

2. I think, satan tries to destroy faith, so that people stop believing His Grace (which destroyed sin and set us apart from the sinful nature). satan also seems to make God's people believe ONLY in the concept of “once forgiven ever forgiven” and also seems to make them stop believing His Grace (which destroyed sin and set us apart from the sinful nature).

We must pray and believe for the church to be protected.

 

[Gospel Guy]

After seeing this thread, some thoughts came to me on the subject which may be of interest to some.

Sanctification is a process that God is taking you through. It is not up to you to achieve it

However, it IS up to us to endure correction according to Hebrews 12:5-11 which is what Jesus was talking about when he mentioned purging in John 15:1-15 where He also mentions that we are supposed to be doing what He tells us to do... JP and numerous teachers today lead people to believe that they will go to Heaven even if they live sinful lifestyles.

The way 'extreme grace' is being framed by these teachers is turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness (Jude 1:4,5) and is the great end time deception that causes many to fall away as they draw close to God with their lips while their hearts are far from them which is evident due to many in the church's willingness to accept what the NT says is sinful... as being OK.

Today's grace centered teaching leaves out our responsibility to walk in the spirit which is what Ephesians 4:17-27 and 2 Timothy 2:19 is referring to among others.

God fully intended for man to always be saved once becoming born-again, but the new birth does not cause sowing and reaping to cease which is what free will is.

When Jesus said "ye are gods"... He was simply referring to man being created in God's image meaning we have the right to sow and reap and with that comes the responsibility to reap what we sow just like God does.

This means that OSAS is a myth the way it is being presented by some today since it results in lasciviousness and a lack of the fear of the Lord in the modern church. These scriptures are interesting to note:

Galatians 6:7,8
For he that sows to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that sows to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man sows, that shall he also reap.

Romans 8:13,14
For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify (put to death) the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Romans 6:12-19
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

 

[Nig]

Ok, sorry once again for the lateness of my reply. I check my Facebook about annually . Nevertheless I do have stuff to think about and come to some level of understanding .

ok...


Never too late!


One has to be careful here, because these words are simply different variants that stem from the same base. For one to have sin (n) he/she must have sinned (v).

Nig;
I might be wrong but am I not a sinner (noun) because Adam sinned. Man does not derive his identity from what he does but who he is. Is this not the temptation in the garden. You are not enough as you are . You need something else to be like God (they already were)

hamartia (strong's 266), hamartano (264), hamartema (265) all stem from a common base. In fact hamartia (266) and hamartema (265) both derive from harartano (264) -- which in turn comes from the base meros (3313). The Greek word meros is a word that means "division or share." The word hamartano (and thus hamartia and hamartema) has the meaning of "missing the mark so as not to share in a prize." Literally, sin removes you from your share of righteousness.


Again, the adjectives, such as harmartolos, have hamartano (264) as a base. The only differences we have here is whether we are talking about the sin (thing) itself, the act of sinning or a thing that is sinful (Rom 8:3, sinful flesh).

Nig;
So are we sinful? Are we a sinner saved by grace or a saint that is the righteousness of God in Christ. What do the scriptures say I am because of what Jesus has done for me?

So if you were to rephrase the revelation that this brought to you, how would you say this has affected your walk? My observations above are just that, observations, and not meant to encourage or discourage your understanding here.

Nig;
I have stopped focusing on my sin and I have started to focus on Jesus . I no longer am living from a place of lack where I try to love Jesus . I now am letting Jesus love me. Jesus is now the sweetest name where before He was a stumbling block. In the past, though saved by the incredible grace of God I could not read Jesus's name without feeling the shame and guilt. Now I am starting to see Him and trust Him. I know that God is for me not against me.

I now read the word to discover Jesus. To discover how He has qualified me to receive all of His promises because they are yes and amen in Christ.


Oh yes, we are always gentle. We use the softest of ropes of tie your hands and ankles before beating....oh, sorry...almost gave away our secrets.

Ok, let's see....page 45....."Yes, we are always gentle with new people. Please come right in. Welcome. So glad to see you here."

Better?




(I'm just being so ornery today!!)

I am grateful to find people who just observe and meet us where we are at; it is a walk after all. Repentance being the changing of the mind, we are called to put precept upon precept, but in the act of repentance we are sometimes called to tear up some of our foundations and start again. I think that is why it is so hard sometimes because repentance has to shake all our life when we tear up a foundation it causes a lot of the precepts that we have laid down to be fall and we have to build again.

Blessings from Western Australia

Sorry obviously not got the hang of multiple breaking up of quotes

 

[Gospel Guy]

Repentance being the changing of the mind

No, repentance is about changing your entire being AND your actions.

Numerous scriptures in the New Testament that outlines certain behavior that if one continues doing them they will go to heLL. So, there are some things that are un-acceptable to God and He expects us to overcome them, not make excuses for them like the so called extreme grace crowd is doing.

Mr prince, mr osteen and the gospel of mickey mouse (sorry mickey) claim that as long as you believe you are forgiven, then it doesn't really matter what actions you do in your body.

satan is behind this teaching since we see in the Book of James that faith without action... acting like what you believe about being born again (being a new creature in Christ)... if not actually the God kind of faith. The New Testament instructs us to put off the old man and put on the new man (walk in the Spirit) which is created in righteousness and true holiness (belonging to God exclusively and not being friend of the world)

God says present your body as a living sacrifice which is your reasonable service unto the Lord since you have been bought with a price and you are not your own.

So, REPENT means to receive the cleansing of your sin by the Blood of Jesus and do what Jesus told the lady caught in adultery... go, and sin no more!

And, Jesus sent the Holy Spirit... the Spirit of Grace... to empower us to quit willingly living in sin and turn away from the ways of this world, so we have no excuse!

 

[Willie T]

Besides Zechariah 12:10, which says nothing about empowering us to do anything, where do you find this "empowering grace" that the Holy Spirit is supposed to enable us with?

All I have been able to find that the Holy Spirit is going to do is teach us, and bring remembrance to us.

 

[Gospel Guy]

Besides Zechariah 12:10, which says nothing about empowering us to do anything, where do you find this "empowering grace" that the Holy Spirit is supposed to enable us with?

All I have been able to find that the Holy Spirit is going to do is teach us, and bring remembrance to us.

For starters, see what Jesus said in Acts 1:8

Acts 1:8
But you shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you
Power (dunamis) = miraculous power, ability, power, strength, mighty

Romans 8:26
Likewise the Spirit also helps our infirmities
Help = to stand against, to oppose

You don't reckon God would call us to evangelize a wicked and perverse world full of demonic power and not come with us, do you?

John 14:18
I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you

And, Jesus did come to each of us when we received Him as Lord... unless we backslide and walk away from Him and go back to sowing to the flesh and reap corruption (Galatians 6:8), which is what Jesus warned us about in Mark 4:14-20

Then there is the experience beyond the new birth of receiving the Spirit of Jesus Christ to fill our life where we ask for and receive the infilling of the Spirit.

This is where religious people part company cause they want to be just saved enough to miss heLL, but they don't want to be overly excited cause they can't be friends with the world if they get too excited about the things of the Lord.

Can't have the world rejecting us for not being like they are

 

[Nig]

No, repentance is about changing your entire being AND your actions.

Numerous scriptures in the New Testament that outlines certain behavior that if one continues doing them they will go to heLL. So, there are some things that are un-acceptable to God and He expects us to overcome them, not make excuses for them like the so called extreme grace crowd is doing.

Mr prince, mr osteen and the gospel of mickey mouse (sorry mickey) claim that as long as you believe you are forgiven, then it doesn't really matter what actions you do in your body.

satan is behind this teaching since we see in the Book of James that faith without action... acting like what you believe about being born again (being a new creature in Christ)... if not actually the God kind of faith. The New Testament instructs us to put off the old man and put on the new man (walk in the Spirit) which is created in righteousness and true holiness (belonging to God exclusively and not being friend of the world)

God says present your body as a living sacrifice which is your reasonable service unto the Lord since you have been bought with a price and you are not your own.

So, REPENT means to receive the cleansing of your sin by the Blood of Jesus and do what Jesus told the lady caught in adultery... go, and sin no more!

And, Jesus sent the Holy Spirit... the Spirit of Grace... to empower us to quit willingly living in sin and turn away from the ways of this world, so we have no excuse!

Well yes and no. Repentance is a change of the mind, that is its literal meaning. Change the mind and have it renewed will result in what you want to see as described. It will change your actions and your whole belief. It is wrong to assume that because repentance is accompanied by change in everything in your life that changing your actions will shift what you believe.

It is the funny thing about the controversy involved in the scandalous gospel of grace that people assume that given freedom from judgement of our sins will cause us to go and sin more that grace may increase. I, like you, want to live an abundant life; free from sin. It was destroying my life. Now it has been nailed to the cross and I bear my sin no more. Why would the prodigal son want to go back to eating in the pigsty. It is clear that if we are to say that shall we sin more that grace may increase that we are slandering the gospel because this is the accompanying verse. Paul must have preached this message so strongly that those that didn't understand the message believed he was saying. Sin has lost it's sting and I am a new creation. I don't know of anyone who has received this gospel that has done anything except return the love they have received in Jesus maybe my world is too small.

So what covenant are you under. Perhaps it would help me to understand your point of view if you explain to me the new covenant as you see it. In my limited experience I have seen people try to explain how they see how God judges us as believers according to our deeds. The tendency seems to be to water down the law to get in. Hardly seems to be the same version that Jesus had of amplifying the law. I mean if we are adulterers then we won't inherit the kingdom. Jesus said that if we even looked at a woman wrong then we have already committed adultery in our hearts. Do we get to be forgiven if we don't forgive others. A notion Jesus presented before the cross or do we as Paul said in a later revelation forgive because we have first been forgiven. The strength of sin is the law. Jesus disarmed the devil of his most powerful tool; I have no intention of rearming him. The USA would do well to remember this as most nations they have trouble with they have supplied arms to at one stage or another. If your enemy is disarmed and defeated then I suggest you don't help him out

 

[Willie T]

For starters, see what Jesus said in Acts 1:8

Acts 1:8
But you shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you
Power (dunamis) = miraculous power, ability, power, strength, mighty

Romans 8:26
Likewise the Spirit also helps our infirmities
Help = to stand against, to oppose

You don't reckon God would call us to evangelize a wicked and perverse world full of demonic power and not come with us, do you?

John 14:18
I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you

And, Jesus did come to each of us when we received Him as Lord... unless we backslide and walk away from Him and go back to sowing to the flesh and reap corruption (Galatians 6:8), which is what Jesus warned us about in Mark 4:14-20

Then there is the experience beyond the new birth of receiving the Spirit of Jesus Christ to fill our life where we ask for and receive the infilling of the Spirit.

This is where religious people part company cause they want to be just saved enough to miss heLL, but they don't want to be overly excited cause they can't be friends with the world if they get too excited about the things of the Lord.

Can't have the world rejecting us for not being like they are

Brother! When you miss the meanings of things, you don't play around, do you.

 

[Gospel Guy]

Brother! When you miss the meanings of things, you don't play around, do you.

I wouldn't expect the carnal minded to understand the Words Jesus speaks which are Spirit and Life. One must understand that God is telling us to be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and to put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. (Ephesians 4:23,24).

The New Testament is very clear in that God is not mocked... WHATSOEVER we sow IS what we shall reap. If we sow to the flesh we will of the flesh reap corruption... if we sow to the Spirit, we shall of the Spirit reap everlasting Life (Galatians 6:7,8)

Hang in there brutha... maybe you'll get it someday