John 3:16....Eternal life - When?

[keras]

The teaching that some will receive spiritual bodies, immortality; at or even before Jesus Returns, is not scriptural.

Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15:54-56....when this perishable body has been clothed with immortality; THEN this prophecy will come true: Death where is your victory, where is your sting?
We know that death will happen during the Millennium, Isaiah 65:20 and how the armies of the world are killed by God; Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:21
Death is only, finally done away with when the New Jerusalem and God Himself, comes to the earth. Revelation 21:1-7

No scripture says anyone receives immortality, or a glorified body before the GWT Judgment and the Book of Life is opened. We have the Promise of it, John 3:16, but not the reality until Gods plan for mankind is all over.
People may think verses like Philippians 3:21 does, Paul doesn't say when, but that verse does go on to say; to make all things subject to Himself. Which happens after the final battle against evil. Revelation 20:7-10

Millions have been deceived by the false teaching of a ‘rapture to heaven’, or immortality for some in the Millennium. this will not happen, it is illogical and conflicts with God’s Plan for mankind.

There is no easy path out from the testing times ahead. 1 Peter 4:12
We must stand firm in our faith and trust in the Lord for His protection. Joel 2:2-32, Acts 2:21

 

[HopeInJesusOnly]

The teaching that some will receive spiritual bodies, immortality; at or even before Jesus Returns, is not scriptural.

Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15:54-56....when this perishable body has been clothed with immortality; THEN this prophecy will come true: Death where is your victory, where is your sting?
We know that death will happen during the Millennium, Isaiah 65:20 and how the armies of the world are killed by God; Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:21
Death is only, finally done away with when the New Jerusalem and God Himself, comes to the earth. Revelation 21:1-7

No scripture says anyone receives immortality, or a glorified body before the GWT Judgment and the Book of Life is opened. We have the Promise of it, John 3:16, but not the reality until Gods plan for mankind is all over.
People may think verses like Philippians 3:21 does, Paul doesn't say when, but that verse does go on to say; to make all things subject to Himself. Which happens after the final battle against evil. Revelation 20:7-10

Millions have been deceived by the false teaching of a ‘rapture to heaven’, or immortality for some in the Millennium. this will not happen, it is illogical and conflicts with God’s Plan for mankind.

There is no easy path out from the testing times ahead. 1 Peter 4:12
We must stand firm in our faith and trust in the Lord for His protection. Joel 2:2-32, Acts 2:21

Do you think we are close to the end?

 

[DennisTate]

The teaching that some will receive spiritual bodies, immortality; at or even before Jesus Returns, is not scriptural.

Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15:54-56....when this perishable body has been clothed with immortality; THEN this prophecy will come true: Death where is your victory, where is your sting?
We know that death will happen during the Millennium, Isaiah 65:20 and how the armies of the world are killed by God; Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:21
Death is only, finally done away with when the New Jerusalem and God Himself, comes to the earth. Revelation 21:1-7

No scripture says anyone receives immortality, or a glorified body before the GWT Judgment and the Book of Life is opened. We have the Promise of it, John 3:16, but not the reality until Gods plan for mankind is all over.
People may think verses like Philippians 3:21 does, Paul doesn't say when, but that verse does go on to say; to make all things subject to Himself. Which happens after the final battle against evil. Revelation 20:7-10

Millions have been deceived by the false teaching of a ‘rapture to heaven’, or immortality for some in the Millennium. this will not happen, it is illogical and conflicts with God’s Plan for mankind.

There is no easy path out from the testing times ahead. 1 Peter 4:12
We must stand firm in our faith and trust in the Lord for His protection. Joel 2:2-32, Acts 2:21

I admit that I could be wrong but I am of the belief that a genuine near death experience that includes a Life Review can be the fulfillment of this promise.

Jhn 16:25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father."


Jhn 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:


Jhn 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man."

I admit that I could be wrong but I suspect strongly that one of the reasons why certain people during the time of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus wanted to kill Lazarus may have been because he may have had a powerful and real story of hell and heaven like that of Howard Storm or Dr. George Ritchie????

Jhn 12:10

But the chief priests consulted that they might put Lazarus also to death;

 

[keras]

Do you think we are close to the end?

Yes.
A culmination of factors point to a soon to happen dramatic changes to this world. The tragedy is that most Christians are in the dark about what God has planned for His people. 1 Thessalonians 5:4

I admit that I could be wrong but I am of the belief that a genuine near death experience that includes a Life Review can be the fulfillment of this promise.

There is no consciousness after death. Ecclesiastes 9:5-6
Our next conscious moment, will be as we stand before God sitting on His Great White Throne, judging everyone who has ever lived. Revelation 20:1-15 Those whose names are Written in the Book of Life, will receive immortality, the rest are made for destruction. Romans 9:22

 

[DennisTate]

Yes.
A culmination of factors point to a soon to happen dramatic changes to this world. The tragedy is that most Christians are in the dark about what God has planned for His people. 1 Thessalonians 5:4

There is no consciousness after death. Ecclesiastes 9:5-6
Our next conscious moment, will be as we stand before God sitting on His Great White Throne, judging everyone who has ever lived. Revelation 20:1-15 Those whose names are Written in the Book of Life, will receive immortality, the rest are made for destruction. Romans 9:22

Are you saying that Paul was unaware of this?

Philippians 1:23

For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

 

[keras]

Are you saying that Paul was unaware of this?

Philippians 1:23

For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

Paul WILL be with Christ. He doesn't say when that will happen.
If you think it happened immediately after Paul died, then you contradict many scriptures.

 

[Daniel C]

I would say the moment a person is born again their eternal destination is changed,by the entering and the indwelling of the Holy Ghost. A person has to accept Jesus Christ as their lord and saviour to be saved or born again.

John
3 ''Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God''

7 ''Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.''

As for the view there is no scripture that says eternal life is not granted before the last judgement,I would say no scripture mentions an exiting of the Holy Ghost from a person. And we know people receive the spirit from New testament scripture,so this could be argued from a number of ways.

Not sure how this plays into end times,I'm speaking purely from a salvation perspective.

 

[DavidPT]

Our next conscious moment, will be as we stand before God sitting on His Great White Throne, judging everyone who has ever lived. Romans 9:22

So, do you think there will come a time where every single person on earth will be physically dead, as in mankind has become extinct? How can what you describe be fulfilled if not everyone on the planet are even physically dead when the GWTJ event occurs?

 

[keras]

So, do you think there will come a time where every single person on earth will be physically dead, as in mankind has become extinct? How can what you describe be fulfilled if not everyone on the planet are even physically dead when the GWTJ event occurs?

Typical conclusion jumping!
No; there will be plenty of living people at the end of the Millennium. They too, will stand before God on His Great White Throne and face Judgment.
As Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 15:51....we shall not all die, but shall be changed in a flash.....
Those whose names are found in the Book of Life; dead or alive, will receive immortality. NOT before then!

 

[keras]

I would say the moment a person is born again their eternal destination is changed,by the entering and the indwelling of the Holy Ghost. A person has to accept Jesus Christ as their lord and saviour to be saved or born again.

John
3 ''Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God''

7 ''Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.''

As for the view there is no scripture that says eternal life is not granted before the last judgement,I would say no scripture mentions an exiting of the Holy Ghost from a person. And we know people receive the spirit from New testament scripture,so this could be argued from a number of ways.

Not sure how this plays into end times,I'm speaking purely from a salvation perspective.

Thanks Daniel C.
As I understand it, when we accept Jesus, become a born again Christian, our names are Written into the Book of Life. When that Book is opened at the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium and our name is found in it, then we receive Immortality and go into Eternity.

Unfortunately, it is possible to have your name erased from the Book of Life. Exodus 32:33, Psalms 69:28, Revelation 3:5
We all know of people who have fallen from grace and have renounced Christianity. Their names will not be found in the Book of Life.

 

[DavidPT]

No; there will be plenty of living people at the end of the Millennium. They too, will stand before God on His Great White Throne and face Judgment.

Explain how they get there when Revelation 20:11-15 indicates it is the dead who were resurrected being judged at that judgment, and not the living who aren't even physically dead at the time as well.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

I don't see a single mention of anyone still physically alive standing before God at this judgment. The text is what we have to go by. So can you point out in the text above, where it also mentions those who are still physically alive standing in front of God as well? But if you can't that's called adding things to the text not present in the text.

Let me ask this. Someone who is still physically alive, and someone who is physically dead, does this mean to you 2 different things, or does it mean to you the same thing? If the former, how can you argue that the physically alive are also present at the GWTJ being judged, when the text instead indicates it is only the dead being judged there?

BTW, it seems obvious that the ones being judged there are not anyone who has part in the first resurrection, but it is meaning the rest of the dead who do not live again until the thousand years finish first.

 

[DavidPT]

Unfortunately, it is possible to have your name erased from the Book of Life. Exodus 32:33, Psalms 69:28, Revelation 3:5
We all know of people who have fallen from grace and have renounced Christianity. Their names will not be found in the Book of Life.

I do at least fully agree with this portion of your post.

 

[keras]

Explain how they get there when Revelation 20:11-15 indicates it is the dead who were resurrected being judged at that judgment, and not the living who aren't even physically dead at the time as well.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

I don't see a single mention of anyone still physically alive standing before God at this judgment. The text is what we have to go by. So can you point out in the text above, where it also mentions those who are still physically alive standing in front of God as well? But if you can't that's called adding things to the text not present in the text.

Let me ask this. Someone who is still physically alive, and someone who is physically dead, does this mean to you 2 different things, or does it mean to you the same thing? If the former, how can you argue that the physically alive are also present at the GWTJ being judged, when the text instead indicates it is only the dead being judged there?

BTW, it seems obvious that the ones being judged there are not anyone who has part in the first resurrection, but it is meaning the rest of the dead who do not live again until the thousand years finish first.

We get our understanding of scripture from all the passages pertaining to that specific subject.
1 Corinthians 15:50-56, is a prophecy about the final Judgment; at the LAST Trumpet. Paul tells us what happens to the living faithful Christians at that time.
It is obvious that there are living people on earth, during and at the end of the Millennium, the armies of the world, Revelation 20:7-9, are living people. They are killed, but God's people remain alive.

Read scriptures like Daniel 12:13 and John 11:24, that show how the dead saints will stand before God along with the dead wicked, on the LAST Day.
THEN; the separation is made, Eternity with God; or Lake of Fire.
Just read Revelation 21 and 22 to see how there are many people around on earth in Eternity.

 

[HopeInJesusOnly]

Unfortunately, it is possible to have your name erased from the Book of Life. Exodus 32:33, Psalms 69:28, Revelation 3:5
We all know of people who have fallen from grace and have renounced Christianity. Their names will not be found in the Book of Life.

Is this the same as being reprobate or an apostate? I am worried I am one of these people and would like my name in the Lamb's Book of Life again. Is it possible to have it re-entered?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

There is no consciousness after death. Ecclesiastes 9:5-6
Our next conscious moment, will be as we stand before God sitting on His Great White Throne, judging everyone who has ever lived. Revelation 20:1-15 Those whose names are Written in the Book of Life, will receive immortality, the rest are made for destruction. Romans 9:22

What about this Rich Man in Luke 16?

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

If hell is truly as it is pictured in this story, then the saved will be able to view the lost who are burning there. Could anyone enjoy eternal existence if they were able to see lost friends, family, and acquaintances being incinerated in hell, yet never burning up? Additionally, if hell (as it is traditionally taught) is an abyss of fire and brimstone where sinners are tormented forever, does anyone really believe that one drop of water would relieve the pain and anguish of someone suffering in its flames?

The self-righteous Pharisees and scribes, acknowledged by Yeshua as the legitimate religious teachers of the Jews (Matt. 23:1-3), should have been the ones telling these people of God's love for them. They should have been the ones teaching these sinners, exhorting them to return to God and receive His love and forgiveness. However, because of their faith in their own righteousness and their contempt for these tax collectors and sinners who didn't measure up to their standards, the Pharisees and scribes excluded them and considered them accursed (John 7:49).

Afterward, speaking primarily to his disciples but with the Pharisees (and probably the crowd) still listening in, Yeshua related the parable of the unjust steward (Luke 16:1-13). The Pharisees, who were "lovers of money" (Luke 16:14), realized that the Messiah was alluding to them with this parable and took offense. They scoffed at Yeshua. The final part of his response to the derision of the Pharisees and scribes was the parable of Lazarus and the rich man.

Luke 16
14 And also the Pharisees, being lovers of money, were hearing all these things, and were deriding him, 15 and he said to them, ‘Ye are those declaring yourselves righteous before men, but God doth know your hearts; because that which among men is high, [is] abomination before God; 16 the law and the prophets [are] till John; since then the reign of God is proclaimed good news, and every one doth press into it; 17 and it is easier to the heaven and the earth to pass away, than of the law one tittle to fall.18 ‘Every one who is sending away his wife, and marrying another, doth commit adultery; and every one who is marrying her sent away from a husband doth commit adultery.

19 Yet a certain Man was rich and was clothed purple and fine-linen, making-merry down to a-day shiningly
20 Yet a certain Poor-one was to name Lazarus, who had been cast toward the his gate, having sores-abiding
21 And yearning to be satisfied from the scraps, those falling from the table of the Rich-one, but also the dogs coming licked-upon the sores of him.
22 Became yet to be dying the Poor-one and to be carried away by the Messengers into the bosom of Abraham.
Yet died also the Rich-one and was entombed.
23 And in the Hades lifting up his eyes existing in torments, he is seeing Abraham from afar and Lazarus in the bosom of him.
24 And he sounding said "Father Abraham! be you merciful to-me! and send Lazarus! that he should be dipping the tip of the finger of him of water and should be cooling down the tongue of me, that I am being anguished in this flame".
25 Said yet Abraham "Child! be thou being reminded! that thou got the goods of thee in the life of thee and Lazarus in like manner the evils,
yet now here he is being comforted and thou art being pained.
26 And upon all of these between us and ye a chasm great hath been established so that those willing to cross-over hence toward ye no may be able, neither thence toward us may be ferrying"
27 Saying yet "I am asking thee then father!, that thou should be sending him into the house of my father,
28 for I am having five brothers which he may be testifying to them that no also they may be coming into the place this of the torment".
29 Abraham is saying to him "they are having Moses and the Prophets let them hear them!".
30 The yet he said: "nay father Abraham!
but if ever any from dead-ones may be going forth toward them they shall be repenting/reforming.
31 Saying yet to him "if Moses and the Prophets not they are hearing, neither if ever anyone out of dead-ones may be rising, they shall be being persuaded".

=============================

 

[DavidPT]

Is this the same as being reprobate or an apostate? I am worried I am one of these people and would like my name in the Lamb's Book of Life again. Is it possible to have it re-entered?

Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.


According to this verse the way one gets it blotted out is by not overcoming.


Revelation 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

What I have underlined above is also something Jesus was teaching in Matthew 24. Compare the above underlined with what's underlined below.

Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The way it seems to me then, one has to overcome all the way up unto their dying breath,or up until the 2nd coming occurs, whichever one occurs first. The blotting out is then something that happens in the next age because one failed to overcome in this age. Verse 51 is what happens after Christ returns, to the one who fails to overcome in this age.

Once one's name is blotted out there is no way to get it relisted in the book of life. But the blotting out doesn't happen in this age though, it happens once Christ returns and is determined during the judgment phase.

 

[HopeInJesusOnly]

Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.


According to this verse the way one gets it blotted out is by not overcoming.


Revelation 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

What I have underlined above is also something Jesus was teaching in Matthew 24. Compare the above underlined with what's underlined below.

Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The way it seems to me then, one has to overcome all the way up unto their dying breath,or up until the 2nd coming occurs, whichever one occurs first. The blotting out is then something that happens in the next age because one failed to overcome in this age. Verse 51 is what happens after Christ returns, to the one who fails to overcome in this age.

Once one's name is blotted out there is no way to get it relisted in the book of life. But the blotting out doesn't happen in this age though, it happens once Christ returns and is determined during the judgment phase.

I've not heard it said this way before. You have opened my eyes. Thank you so much for taking the time to pull this together for me.

I have one more question, if I may. If one is struggling with depression and dies in this state (or God forbid, kills themself), do they also get blotted out as not being able to overcome? It seems like compounding sadness. First the depression and then failing life in this age and the next.

Sorry if the question is a dumb one.

 

[Daniel C]

Thanks Daniel C.
As I understand it, when we accept Jesus, become a born again Christian, our names are Written into the Book of Life. When that Book is opened at the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium and our name is found in it, then we receive Immortality and go into Eternity.

Unfortunately, it is possible to have your name erased from the Book of Life. Exodus 32:33, Psalms 69:28, Revelation 3:5
We all know of people who have fallen from grace and have renounced Christianity. Their names will not be found in the Book of Life.

Amen on most things.

I believe on the throne of judgement.
I believe in the book of life.
I believe peoples names get blotted out of the book of life,because all these things are scripture.

The slight disagreement I would have is rather than have peoples name written into the book of life,every bodies name starts in the book and is kept or erased. So babies and children name have their name their as well. (My opinion) Not scripture.

I'm curious how does eternal life tie into end times for you and this thread?

 

[keras]

What about this Rich Man in Luke 16?

That story is a homily, an admonition to us to keep on the straight and narrow path.
Believing it literally, is wrong and contradicts much scripture.

Once one's name is blotted out there is no way to get it relisted in the book of life. But the blotting out doesn't happen in this age though, it happens once Christ returns and is determined during the judgment phase.

We aren't given enough details to be sure about this. My opinion is;

that it is possible to be re-instated in the Book of Life. True repentance should suffice, but only the Lord knows the heart, He will Judge righteously. ​

I have one more question, if I may. If one is struggling with depression and dies on this state (or God forbid, kills themself), do they also get blotted out as not being able to overcome? It seems like compounding sadness. First the depression and then failing life in this age and the next.

The 'Overcoming' that the Lord wants, is for us to reject Satan and to believe in Jesus and keep His Commandments.
Depression is a disease and is usually treatable with modern medicine.

 

[keras]

I'm curious how does eternal life tie into end times for you and this thread?

Immortality is not conferred upon anyone until the Book of Life is opened; at the Great White Throne Judgment, AFTER the Millennium.
The ideas of people going to heaven, or being immortal along with mortal humans, are not Biblical and can never happen.