Jesus's resurrection

[rwb]

True. That's why we need to be born from above - translated as "born again" in some versions.

Yes, we must have part in the first resurrection to be spared the second death. And we are of the first resurrection when we partake of the resurrection of Christ. It is for this reason that it is not wrong to speak of our re-birth through the resurrection of Christ's resurrection as being spiritually resurrected from spiritual death to spiritual life in Christ. His resurrection to life becomes ours through His Spirit when we believe.

 

[Zao is life]

Yes, we must have part in the first resurrection to be spared the second death. And we are of the first resurrection when we partake of the resurrection of Christ. It is for this reason that it is not wrong to speak of our re-birth through the resurrection of Christ's resurrection as being spiritually resurrected from spiritual death to spiritual life in Christ. His resurrection to life becomes ours through His Spirit when we believe.

It's not a resurrection.

 

[sovereigngrace]

It's not a resurrection.

Your problem is: you do not seem to understand or believe in original sin or total depravity.

 

[rwb]

It's not a resurrection.

Do you deny we must partake of the life (resurrection) of Christ to be born again? Since Christ was most assuredly resurrected bodily from the grave, when we partake of His resurrection life, we have been resurrected to spiritual life from spiritual death in HIM.

If not our spirit, what did Paul mean when he says, "you who were dead in trespasses and sins"? Doe it not stand to reason that Paul is saying that our spirit; mind, heart, will, emotion before new birth is dead in sin because (1) before new birth we serve our natural man (2) our natural spirit, like our natural body is under the sentence of death?

 

[Zao is life]

Do you deny we must partake of the life (resurrection) of Christ to be born again? Since Christ was most assuredly resurrected bodily from the grave, when we partake of His resurrection life, we have been resurrected to spiritual life from spiritual death in HIM.

You've just proved you have the cart before the horse. You must check your horse because some guy got drunk on eisegesis and tied your horse to the side of your cart with his head facing the cart.

You can only experience bodily resurrection from the dead because of Christ's resurrection from the dead (which is a bodily resurrection), and you cannot share in Christ's resurrection unless you have first been born from above by the Spirit of God.

 

[Zao is life]

Your problem is: you do not seem to understand or believe in original sin or total depravity.

FALSE CLAIM.

Every time you can't prove what you are saying you change the subject and throw out false accusation against the person who shows your error up. It's really childish.

 

[sovereigngrace]

FALSE CLAIM.

Every time you can't prove what you are saying you change the subject and throw out false accusation against the person who shows your error up. It's really childish.

Not so! This is at the heart of your error. Until you see that man is conceived in sin and born spiritually dead then you will never see your need of a spiritual resurrection. This is at the core of your ignorance.

 

[Zao is life]

Not so! This is at the heart of your error. Until you see that man is conceived in sin and born spiritually dead then you will never see your need of a spiritual resurrection. This is at the core of your ignorance.

I'm fully aware of that. It's you who thinks that your spirit was alive when you were born and died later and gets resurrected (so that you get spiritually "resurrected") when you hear the gospel and believe. You don't believe the words of Jesus when He tells you that unless someone is born from above by the Spirit he cannot see or enter the Kingdom of God. You seem to think that new birth by the Spirit of God is figurative, and that Jesus is speaking figuratively when He says,

John 3
3 Jesus answered and said to him, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;'
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, `How is a man able to be born, being old? is he able into the womb of his mother a second time to enter, and to be born?'
5 Jesus answered, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born of water, and the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the reign of God;
6 that which hath been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which hath been born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 `Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above;

What you do not understand is that it is by virtue of birth by the Spirit of Christ that we are in Christ and Christ in us, and therefore we have died with Him who died bodily, and are therefore raised with Him who was raised bodily, and we will never die because His Spirit now lives in our spirit which was born of His Spirit (because as you say, we had no spirit when we were born - we were born dead, spiritually), and this is also why we too, will be raised bodily.

The reason you died with Christ and were resurrected with Christ when you heard the gospel and believed is not because you'd had a spirit which was alive and then died and then got resurrected - it's because when you heard the gospel and believed you were born from above by the Spirit of Christ. That which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

It's not figurative. It's real.

Your false accusations against me mean nothing to God.

 

[rwb]

You've just proved you have the cart before the horse. You must check your horse because some guy got drunk on eisegesis and tied your horse to the side of your cart with his head facing the cart.

You can only experience bodily resurrection from the dead because of Christ's resurrection from the dead (which is a bodily resurrection), and you cannot share in Christ's resurrection unless you have first been born from above by the Spirit of God.

Really? When one rises from the dead, and are as the angels in heaven is not a bodily resurrection, but a spiritual one. Guess you are making the same mistake as the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection of the dead. If this were speaking of the bodily resurrection on the last day, Christ would not say we are as the angels in heaven; i.e. spirit/celestial beings.

Mr 12:23 In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife.
Mr 12:24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
Mr 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
Mr 12:26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
Mr 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

 

[Zao is life]

Really? When one rises from the dead, and are as the angels in heaven is not a bodily resurrection, but a spiritual one. Guess you are making the same mistake as the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection of the dead. If this were speaking of the bodily resurrection on the last day, Christ would not say we are as the angels in heaven; i.e. spirit/celestial beings.

Mr 12:23 In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife.
Mr 12:24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
Mr 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
Mr 12:26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
Mr 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

Until the resurrection of the dead to occur when Christ returns, we do not rise from the dead physically when we die physically. We do not rise from the dead at all. We put off our mortal bodies and wait for the day when we will receive our immortal bodies.

I realize from what you said you have added a different resurrection to the gospel than the gospel talks about. I don't think you will be convinced any differently.

 

[rwb]

Until the resurrection of the dead to occur when Christ returns, we do not rise from the dead physically when we die physically. We do not rise from the dead at all. We put off our mortal bodies and wait for the day when we will receive our immortal bodies.

I realize from what you said you have added a different resurrection to the gospel than the gospel talks about. I don't think you will be convinced any differently.

No we don't rise bodily when our body dies, we rise a spiritual body. So you are denying the words of Christ when He said, "He who lives and believes in Me shall never die"? If you think death separates us from Christ, then you are denying the life we receive when we believe is forever, even though Christ repeatedly tells us the life He gives when we believe is eternal. Christ could not say the life we receive through Him when we believe is eternal if death of our body is death also of our spirit. The Holy Spirit in us promises to be with always, until we receive the promise of redemption of our body. When we physically die does the Spirit in us die too?

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

 

[Zao is life]

No we don't rise bodily when our body dies, we rise a spiritual body. So you are denying the words of Christ when He said, "He who lives and believes in Me shall never die"? If you think death separates us from Christ, then you are denying the life we receive when we believe is forever, even though Christ repeatedly tells us the life He gives when we believe is eternal. Christ could not say the life we receive through Him when we believe is eternal if death of our body is death also of our spirit. The Holy Spirit in us promises to be with always, until we receive the promise of redemption of our body. When we physically die does the Spirit in us die too?

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

It's because of your spiritual birth that you never die or become separated from Christ when you die physically. It has nothing to do with "resurrection" because you can't be resurrected if you're not dead.

If we're not alive spiritually when we die a physical death then we will not go to be with the Lord - but those who are alive spiritually were born from above by the Spirit of God:

John 3:6 that which hath been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which hath been born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 `Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above;
John 3:8 the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.'

John 3:5 Jesus answered, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born of water, and the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the reign of God;

Since the day of your spiritual birthday, when you were born from above by the Spirit of God, the Spirit of God lives in your spirit which lives in your soul which lives in your body. This is why you will never die even though we die physically. Nothing to do with "resurrection". You can't be resurrected if you're not dead.

 

[rwb]

It's because of your spiritual birth that you never die or become separated from Christ when you die physically. It has nothing to do with "resurrection" because you can't be resurrected if you're not dead.

If we're not alive spiritually when we die a physical death then we will not go to be with the Lord - but those who are alive spiritually were born from above by the Spirit of God:

John 3:6 that which hath been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which hath been born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 `Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above;
John 3:8 the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.'

John 3:5 Jesus answered, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born of water, and the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the reign of God;

Since the day of your spiritual birthday, when you were born from above by the Spirit of God, the Spirit of God lives in your spirit which lives in your soul which lives in your body. This is why you will never die even though we die physically. Nothing to do with "resurrection". You can't be resurrected if you're not dead.

So our body doesn't really die when it breathes its last? Are you being serious, or continuing in your sarcastic manner? You're argument is that death of our body means we don't really have spiritual life through His Spirit in us when our body breathes its last??? When our body dies without the Spirit, we know nothing. But we have much evidence in Scripture (especially Revelation) that death for believers does not mean silence and darkness, but rather ascending to heaven and worshiping, praising, and even singing songs to the glory of God. But you insist death of our body means silence and darkness? Why would you deny the truth, when Christ tells us that even death cannot keep us from His love?

 

[Zao is life]

So our body doesn't really die when it breathes its last? Are you being serious, or continuing in your sarcastic manner? You're argument is that death of our body means we don't really have spiritual life through His Spirit in us when our body breathes its last??? When our body dies without the Spirit, we know nothing. But we have much evidence in Scripture (especially Revelation) that death for believers does not mean silence and darkness, but rather ascending to heaven and worshiping, praising, and even singing songs to the glory of God. But you insist death of our body means silence and darkness? Why would you deny the truth, when Christ tells us that even death cannot keep us from His love?

No I'm not being sarcastic and was not being sarcastic but I think you are being argumentative here.

You need to go back and read my posts because either your misunderstanding of what I said is real, or yo have an entirely different motive which only you and Jesus know about for claiming I've stated things which I did not. I'm not going to repeat what I actually did say. I'm also not going to reply to any more of your posts if they continue in such an argumentative tone while all you are doing is misquoting me.

 

[claninja]

Unlike you, I do believe He is the firstfuits of the resurrection to come, which Revelation 20 talks about because the Bible says so:

I believe Jesus is not only the first fruits of the resurrection, but is also literally the first resurrection.

John 11:25-26 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth on me, though he die, yet shall he live; and whosoever liveth and believeth on me shall never die.

1 corinthians 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ's, at his coming.

Those who will have been beheaded for their testimony to Christ and for the Word of God and those who refuse the mark of the beast become the first (protos) resurrection following Christ's resurrection - just as the apostle Paul stated they would:

1 Cor 15:22-23 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit, and afterward they who are Christ's at His coming;

and those who have part in this first (protos) resurrection following the resurrecrtion of Christ who is the firstfruits (aparche) of the resurrection, are blessed:

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first (protos) resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (Rev 20:5-6).

There is no mention of 2 future resurrections at all in 1 corinthians 15. It only mentions Christ's resurrection and then those that are in Christ at his coming, followed by the end coming when Jesus delivers the kingdom up to God.

1 corinthians 15:23-28 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ's, at his coming. 24Then cometh the end, when he shall deliver up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have abolished all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be abolished is death. For, He put all things in subjection under his feet. But when he saith, All things are put in subjection, it is evident that he is excepted who did subject all things unto him. And when all things have been subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subjected to him that did subject all things unto him, that God may be all in all.

Please demonstrate where the gospels or epistles mention 2 future resurrection for believers.

So you see the Bible teaches that Christ is the firstfruits (aparche) of the resurrection (which is a bodily resurrection from the dead - because He rose bodily), and the next resurrection will take place when He returns, when those who were beheaded and had not worshipped the beast are resurrected and reign with Him for a thousand years. This is the first (protos) resurrection following Christ's resurrection (just as Paul stated), because the rest of the dead will not be resurrected until the thousand years are finished

The Bible teaches that Christ IS THE RESURRECTION (john 11:25), and that he is the first fruits of the dead (1 corinthians 15: 20).

Even in your own words, you have to call your interpretation of the 1st resurrection the "next" resurrection.

It is illogical for the 1st resurrection to be anything other than Christ, as any bodily resurrection that occurs after Christ, is not the first, as Christ was already the first.

I believe the Bible. Do you? If you don't believe what is written and read into it things that the Bible does not say then it shows that you do not believe the Bible and are not following Christ and His apostle's Christian teaching but a Chriistian theology that is false.

Logical fallacy. Just because I don't believe YOUR interpretation, doesn't mean I don't believe scripture.

 

[Zao is life]

I believe Jesus is not only the first fruits of the resurrection, but is also literally the first resurrection.

John 11:25-26 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth on me, though he die, yet shall he live; and whosoever liveth and believeth on me shall never die.

1 corinthians 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ's, at his coming.



There is no mention of 2 future resurrections at all in 1 corinthians 15. It only mentions Christ's resurrection and then those that are in Christ at his coming, followed by the end coming when Jesus delivers the kingdom up to God.

1 corinthians 15:23-28 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ's, at his coming. 24Then cometh the end, when he shall deliver up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have abolished all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be abolished is death. For, He put all things in subjection under his feet. But when he saith, All things are put in subjection, it is evident that he is excepted who did subject all things unto him. And when all things have been subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subjected to him that did subject all things unto him, that God may be all in all.

Please demonstrate where the gospels or epistles mention 2 future resurrection for believers.





The Bible teaches that Christ IS THE RESURRECTION (john 11:25), and that he is the first fruits of the dead (1 corinthians 15: 20).

Even in your own words, you have to call your interpretation of the 1st resurrection the "next" resurrection.

It is illogical for the 1st resurrection to be anything other than Christ, as any bodily resurrection that occurs after Christ, is not the first, as Christ was already the first.



Logical fallacy. Just because I don't believe YOUR interpretation, doesn't mean I don't believe scripture.

If you don't like people implying that you don't believe the scriptures, then don't imply that someone who disagrees with you does not believe the scriptures.

I answered your post above here:

Resurrection, First Resurrection and New Birth

 

[claninja]

If you don't like people implying that you don't believe the scriptures, then don't imply that someone who disagrees with you does not believe the scriptures.

Where did I imply that you don't believe the scriptures?

 

[rwb]

It's not a resurrection.

Yes it is. It is the resurrection of Christ from death to life.

 

[Zao is life]

Yes it is. It is the resurrection of Christ from death to life.

Resurrection, First Resurrection and New Birth

 

[Zao is life]

Where did I imply that you don't believe the scriptures?

You implied that I don't believe in the Trinity by asking me about it in a thread which has nothing to do with the Trinity. I wouldn't be posting on this board or in these forums if I did not believe in the Trinity, and I wouldn't even have thought or wondered if someone posting here does not believe in the Trinity in a thread which has nothing to do with the Trinity.