Jesus prophesied that we would be keeping the Sabbath until He returns in Matthew 24

[HIM]

On the Sabbath (the seventh day) we enter into His rest. We do not enter spiritual rest on any other day according to this passage.

Hebrews 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

That is not what the text says It says he who has entered his rest which is the same rest mention in verse 1 and 2 Also CEASED from his works as God did. We because of the Gospel Rest in Christ Jesus are constantly able to be spiritually resting in Him by living through Him. That is the point of His Resurrection. And Because we now can live through Him we now cease from our own work AS God did from His in His holiness. Through our spiritual rest in Christ. For it is He that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure. That is everyday and if it is not then we are not saved and therefore not experiencing the Gospel and the rest it affords in Christ through God's Spirit and are not keeping the Sabbath.

So we must cease from our work (the door/Sabbath) to enter into the rest in Christ. God only rested (ceased from work) on the seventh day, Hebrews 4:4, Genesis 2:1-3. The Sabbath is the seventh day according to God Exodus 20:10 and the day He commanded us to cease our work. Exodus 20:8-11

We enter the rest which is in Christ through faith not by resting on the Sabbath. What you are teaching is a salvation from works, Our works. Because you said that we must cease from our work to enter into the rest in Christ. This not true. We must enter into Christ to cease from our work. And we do that through Him through Faith. And that is not even of ourselves it is a gift from God.

Are you disagreeing we do not enter into His rest on the Sabbath (seventh day) or is it just the term I used the door in which we enter into Christ's rest is the Sabbath (seventh day). To me the Sabbath is about Christ because its the day that we are to do His ways and not our own

Everyday we are suppose to do His ways and not our own through Christ. But one day we are called to cease from the work we do to survive. As the commandment says. One Day with no servile work. No distractions. A day set apart to cease from work like God did. And because of the gift in Christ we can now keep it Holy.


These are difficult text. Most don't bother with them because of that.

No leader in your church teaches what you are saying here Sabbath blessings. If they are their General Conference isn't aware of it.

 

[Leaf473]

Can you love God by lying, stealing, worshipping other gods, bowing to images, not keeping His Sabbath holy, not honoring our father or mother, coveting etc.

Not according to scripture:

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandment 1 John 5:3
If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15
Showing mercy to thousands who love Me and keep My commandants Exodus 20:6

The scriptures disagree with you here. And to think to do these things is not sinning, does not come from scripture. 1 John 3:4, Romans 7:7 Romans 3:20, Hebrews 10:26-30, Matthew 5:19-30, James 2:10-12

We will have to agree to disagree.

Well... Remember, the key was loving your neighbor as yourself.

So for your line of thought to work, I think you would want to show how loving your neighbor would fit with those activities you described.

 

[Leaf473]

We are blessed when we are in obedience to God.

It seems to me that would happen on Days other than the seventh day as well.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

It seems to me that would happen on Days other than the seventh day as well.

That is not what the text says It says he who has entered his rest which is the same rest mention in verse 1 and 2 Also CEASED from his works as God did. We because of the Gospel Rest in Christ Jesus are constantly able to be spiritually resting in Him by living through Him. That is the point of His Resurrection. And Because we now can live through Him we now cease from our own work AS God did from His in His holiness. Through our spiritual rest in Christ. For it is He that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure. That is everyday and if it is not then we are not saved and therefore not experiencing the Gospel and the rest it affords in Christ through God's Spirit and are not keeping the Sabbath.

We enter the rest which is in Christ through faith not by resting on the Sabbath. What you are teaching is a salvation from works, Our works. Because you said that we must cease from our work to enter into the rest in Christ. This not true. We must enter into Christ to cease from our work. And we do that through Him through Faith. And that is not even of ourselves it is a gift from God.



Everyday we are suppose to do His ways and not our own through Christ. But one day we are called to cease from the work we do to survive. As the commandment says. One Day with no servile work. No distractions. A day set apart to cease from work like God did. And because of the gift in Christ we can now keep it Holy.


These are difficult text. Most don't bother with them because of that.

No leader in your church teaches what you are saying here Sabbath blessings. If they are their General Conference isn't aware of it.

I am not teaching works by Salvation; I believe in obedience through faith. Through faith we obey what God asks, not to be saved because we have faith in God and obey what He ask because we know God would only ask us to do something that is for our own good.

I believe we need to rest in Christ which is shown through our obedience to Him.

In particular Hebrews 4:9-10 is referring to the rest in Christ when we cease from our work on the seventh day (Sabbath) through faith. We need to keep the Sabbath holy to receive the rest in Christ and not through disobedience which is shown in Hebrews 4:6

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Well... Remember, the key was loving your neighbor as yourself.

So for your line of thought to work, I think you would want to show how loving your neighbor would fit with those activities you described.

The key word is keeping the commandments through love. When we keep the commandments in regard to our neighbor, we are fulfilling love to our neighbor by not doing them harm by stealing from them, lying to them coveting what they have, committing adultery with their spouse or breaking any other commandment that God gave us that has to do with man. In regards to the first 4 commandments this is how we love God with all of our hearts by keeping them and therefore breaking them is not love.

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

 

[HIM]

No spiritual rest on any day except the Sabbath? That's an interesting idea.

It takes the Way to God from Christ and puts it on the Sabbath. That is of her own concoction.

I am not teaching works by Salvation; I believe in obedience through faith. Through faith we obey what God asks, not to be saved because we have faith in God and obey what He ask because we know God would only ask us to do something that is for our own good.

I believe we need to rest in Christ which is shown through our obedience to Him.

In particular Hebrews 4:9-10 is referring to the rest in Christ when we cease from our work on the seventh day (Sabbath). We need to keep the Sabbath holy to receive the rest in Christ and not through disobedience which is shown in Hebrews 4:6

It is through Faith that we receive the rest in Christ and thereby can keep the Sabbath. We do not receive the Rest in Christ because we keep the the Sabbath. That is salvation from works. Because you are saying we have to do something to be saved.

As was said These are difficult text. Most don't bother with them because of that.

No leader in your church teaches what you are saying here Sabbath blessings. If they are their General Conference isn't aware of it. You had called for another member to drop SDA church as being their church due false doctrine in which your church does not teach. You yourself might want to consider this unless you hold yourself to another standard.

Take care

 

[SabbathBlessings]

It takes the Way to God from Christ and puts it on the Sabbath. That is of her own concoction.
It is through Faith that we receive the rest in Christ and thereby can keep the Sabbath. We do not receive the Rest in Christ because we keep the the Sabbath. That is salvation from works. Because you are saying we have to do something to be saved.

As was said These are difficult text. Most don't bother with them because of that.

No leader in your church teaches what you are saying here Sabbath blessings. If they are their General Conference isn't aware of it. You had called for another member to drop SDA church as being their church due false doctrine in which your church does not teach. You yourself might want to consider this unless you hold yourself to another standard.

Take care

The Sabbath is about spending time with God, doing His ways on His holy day how is that not the way to God? The Sabbath is way more than just ceasing from working and taking a nap. We are called to keep the Sabbath holy Exodus 20:9 and in doing so that is a day of worship Lev 23:3, Isaiah 66:23 and communion with God on His blessed and holy day doing His way, all of our thoughts are on Jesus when we keep His Sabbath holy. Isaiah 58:13


I don't know of any Adventist who does not believe Hebrews 4 is not about keeping the Sabbath and the rest in Christ. God does not force us to obey, it's something God asks us all throughout the scripture to keep the Sabbath holy, don't defile my Sabbath, we need to take the first step in obedience to Him through faith, which He then gives us the power to obey, God will never force us to obey Him. Hebrews 4:9-10 is absolutely about keeping the Sabbath - rest from our works on the seventh day- takes us right to creation Genesis 2:1-3 and the Sabbath commandment Exodus 20:8-11

What Adventists Believe about the Sabbath - Adventist.org
The gracious Creator, after the six days of Creation, rested on the seventh day and instituted the Sabbath for all people as a memorial of Creation. The fourth commandment of God’s unchangeable law requires the observance of this seventh-day Sabbath as the day of rest, worship, and ministry in harmony with the teaching and practice of Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a day of delightful communion with God and one another. It is a symbol of our redemption in Christ, a sign of our sanctification, a token of our allegiance, and a foretaste of our eternal future in God’s kingdom. The Sabbath is God’s perpetual sign of His eternal covenant between Him and His people. Joyful observance of this holy time from evening to evening, sunset to sunset, is a celebration of God’s creative and redemptive acts. (Gen. 2:1-3; Exod. 20:8-11; 31:13-17; Lev. 23:32; Deut. 5:12-15; Isa. 56:5, 6; 58:13, 14; Ezek. 20:12, 20; Matt. 12:1-12; Mark 1:32; Luke 4:16; Heb. 4:1-11.)

Salvation through works is depending on our work to save us, we cannot save ourselves, only God can which is why we depend on what He asks of us and not depend on what we think is right. Keeping the commandments won't save anyone, it is obedience though faith and being transformed by the Spirit so we want to keep the commandments of God because we love God and have faith in what He asks.

 

[HIM]

The Sabbath is about spending time with God, doing His ways on His holy day how is that not the way to God? The Sabbath is way more than just ceasing from working and taking a nap. We are called to keep the Sabbath holy Exodus 20:9 and in doing so that is a day of worship Lev 23:3, Isaiah 66:23 and communion with God on His blessed and holy day doing His way, all of our thoughts are on Jesus when we keep His Sabbath holy. Isaiah 58:13


I don't know of any Adventist who does not believe Hebrews 4 is not about keeping the Sabbath and the rest in Christ. God does not force us to obey, it's something God asks us all throughout the scripture to keep the Sabbath holy, don't defile my Sabbath, we need to take the first step in obedience to Him through faith, which He then gives us the power to obey, God will never force us to obey Him. Hebrews 4:9-10 is absolutely about keeping the Sabbath - rest from our works on the seventh day- takes us right to creation Genesis 2:1-3 and the Sabbath commandment Exodus 20:8-11

What Adventists Believe about the Sabbath - Adventist.org
The gracious Creator, after the six days of Creation, rested on the seventh day and instituted the Sabbath for all people as a memorial of Creation. The fourth commandment of God’s unchangeable law requires the observance of this seventh-day Sabbath as the day of rest, worship, and ministry in harmony with the teaching and practice of Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a day of delightful communion with God and one another. It is a symbol of our redemption in Christ, a sign of our sanctification, a token of our allegiance, and a foretaste of our eternal future in God’s kingdom. The Sabbath is God’s perpetual sign of His eternal covenant between Him and His people. Joyful observance of this holy time from evening to evening, sunset to sunset, is a celebration of God’s creative and redemptive acts. (Gen. 2:1-3; Exod. 20:8-11; 31:13-17; Lev. 23:32; Deut. 5:12-15; Isa. 56:5, 6; 58:13, 14; Ezek. 20:12, 20; Matt. 12:1-12; Mark 1:32; Luke 4:16; Heb. 4:1-11.)

Salvation through works is depending on our work to save us, we cannot save ourselves, only God can which is why we depend on what He asks of us and not depend on what we think is right. Keeping the commandments won't save anyone, it is obedience though faith and being transformed by the Spirit so we want to keep the commandments of God because we love God and have faith in what He asks.

What you don’t know of is any Adventist leader through the conference teaching that we must keep the Sabbath to have the rest Christ offers. And That is because that is salvation through works.

 

[Leaf473]

I am not teaching works by Salvation; I believe in obedience through faith. Through faith we obey what God asks, not to be saved because we have faith in God and obey what He ask because we know God would only ask us to do something that is for our own good.

I believe we need to rest in Christ which is shown through our obedience to Him.

In particular Hebrews 4:9-10 is referring to the rest in Christ when we cease from our work on the seventh day (Sabbath). We need to keep the Sabbath holy to receive the rest in Christ and not through disobedience which is shown in Hebrews 4:6

I think we would experience that rest in Christ every day. That would be spiritual rest.

We may disagree on how we achieve that spiritual rest, but the spiritual rest is every day imo

 

[Clare73]

Making a statement about a verse or verses doesn't make it true. That is all you done here. You have to prove that a verse is implying something by it's grammar and context to itself and the surrounding passages and then maybe if necessary how other verses allude to the same point.

You are wrong right from the start in your first point and 2nd.
Verse 4:1 is not talking about the Sabbath at all.

Are you sure about that?

According to Hebrews 4:9, the promise of v. 1 to enter his rest refers to a promise that is spiritual and eternal, a spiritual Sabbath rest for the people of God "Today."

You have taken a passage (Hebrews 3:7-4:11) on our NT spiritual Sabbath rest in Christ--from our own works to save, and in Christ's finished work which saves, and boot strapped the OT physical Sabbath rest into it, nowhere either stated nor mentioned in the passage.
You have wrestled the Scriptures (2 Timothy 3:16) in the passage of the NT spiritual Sabbath rest to also arrive at the OT physical Sabbath rest in those same Scriptures.

However, we don't have two different Sabbaths in the NT, the old order of the physical type and the new order (Hebrews 9:10) of the spiritual anti-type,
anymore than we have two cleansings in the NT, the old order of the physical type (ceremonial washings) and the new order of the spiritual anti-type (blood of the Lamb).
There is only one order in the NT; i.e., the new order (Hebrews 9:10) of the spiritual anti-types.

"And in this again" (4:5)
In this again what?

In the passage above; i.e., Hebrews 4:3, which has nothing to do with Sinai.

He speaks of the Seventh Day IF they shall enter into the spiritual rest which is the Gospel in Christ Jesus. How did God speak of the Seventh Day on Mt Sinai?
He spoke it on that certain day as a commandment.

Hebrews 4:3 has nothing to do with Sinai.
You're boot-strapping it into the text. . .to arrive at your personal theology.

None of that is in the text of Hebrews.

Since now we are partaking of the spiritual rest in Christ we can also rest physically on the Sabbath and not defile the day that we are told to keep holy through the spiritual rest we now have in Christ.

Unadulterated wrestling of the Scriptures (2 Timothy 3:16).

There is nothing in Hebrews 3-4 about the old order of physical rest in the OT.
It's all about the new order of spiritual rest in the NT.
Not to mention that in the new order (Hebrews 9:10) of the NT, love fulfills all the law "and whatever other commandment there may be" (Hebrews 13:8-10), the Sabbath being fulfilled in the NT full-time spiritual Sabbath rest in Jesus Christ.

The only NT Sabbath mentioned in Hebrews 3-4 is the new order of the full-time spiritual Sabbath rest of "Today" in the work of Jesus Christ which saves, and from our own work to save.
It has nothing to do with the obsolete (Hebrews 8:13) old order of the weekly physical Sabbath of the Old Covenant, which you boot-strap into the passage with your wrestling of the Scriptures (2 Timothy 3:16).

 

[Leaf473]

The key word is keeping the commandments through love. When we keep the commandments in regard to our neighbor, we are fulfilling love to our neighbor by not doing them harm by stealing from them, lying to them coveting what they have, committing adultery with their spouse or breaking any other commandment that God gave us that has to do with man. In regards to the first 4 commandments this is how we love God with all of our hearts by keeping them and therefore breaking them is not love.

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

Galatians 5 says the entire law is fulfilled...

So if the idea is that how we love our neighbor is by keeping the law, then a person would have to keep the entire law, which I believe everyone except Messianics says we don't have to do.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

What you don’t know of is any Adventist leader through the conference teaching that we must keep the Sabbath to have the rest Christ offers. And That is because that is salvation through works.

What you seem to be indicating is that we do not need to be obedient to Christ to receive His rest, which I do not see Hebrews 4:1-11 saying. Hebrews 4:6 Christ offers rest to everyone, but not everyone accepts this gift which is shown by obedience. Hebrews 4 is a call to obedience through faith and in particular the Sabbath as shown in Hebrews 4:4, Hebrews 4:9-10

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Galatians 5 says the entire law is fulfilled...

Thats not what this passage is saying. There is no scripture that was we can break the commandments of God.

 

[Leaf473]

Thats not what this passage is saying. There is no scripture that was we can break the commandments of God.

Galatians 5
For the entire law is fulfilled in one word, in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

So yes, we don't break it, we fulfill it. The entire law.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Galatians 5
For the entire law is fulfilled in one word, in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

So yes, we don't break it, we fulfill it. The entire law.

So we can steal, commit adultery, and covet our neighbor etc. or does fulfill mean we don’t do these things?

Fulfill means to fill-full, like a marriage covenant to fulfill your vows does that mean one can commit adultery or do you keep your vows and are faithful?

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments 1 John 5:3

The saints keep the commandments of God and faith in Jesus Revelation 14:12

The answer is in these scriptures. But if you feel fulfill means we no longer need to keep the commandments of God and can commit sin 1 John 3:4, Romans 7:7 I will leave that between you and God.

That’s all the time I have so God bless you in seeking His Word.

 

[Leaf473]

So we can steal, commit adultery, and covet our neighbor etc. or does fulfill mean we don’t do these things?

Fulfill means to fill-full, like a marriage covenant to fulfill your vows does that mean one can commit adultery or do you keep your vows and are faithful?

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments 1 John 5:3

The saints keep the commandments of God and faith in Jesus Revelation 14:12

The answer is in these scriptures. But if you feel fulfill means we no longer need to keep the commandments of God and can commit sin 1 John 3:4, Romans 7:7 I will leave that between you and God.

That’s all the time I have so God bless you in seeking His Word.

Well, about the first part, I believe I already talked about that here

Well... Remember, the key was loving your neighbor as yourself.

So for your line of thought to work, I think you would want to show how loving your neighbor would fit with those activities you described.

About Fulfill being like a marriage vow, it's possible. A different meaning that I think is more probable in this case is that it's being used in the sense of a bank loan. When you pay off a bank loan, fulfill it, you don't keep paying on it.

May the Lord bless your going out and your coming in, from this day forth, and forever.

 

[Clare73]

We are saved by God's grace (grace is the ground and agency of our salvation) through faith, which is the means by which we receive the gift of salvation.
Romans 3:31 - New Living Translation
Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law.
Salvation was by grace through faith in the Old Testament, the same as today. They looked forward to the coming Messiah; we look back to the cross.
Compliance to the law of God in the Old Testament could be summed up in these words; “Do or die.” In the New Testament: “Die and do.”
The gospel message was given throughout the Old Testament and in the New Testament as well; from Genesis to Revelation.

Galatians 3:24
So the law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

I'd be more impressed, with you and your Biblical reporting, if you presented the whole story, instead of leaving out part of it. . .the part in the next verse, Galatians 3:25:
"Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law."

.

 

[BobRyan]

We are saved by God's grace (grace is the ground and agency of our salvation) through faith, which is the means by which we receive the gift of salvation.

Romans 3:31

New Living Translation
Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law.

Salvation was by grace through faith in the Old Testament, the same as today. They looked forward to the coming Messiah; we look back to the cross.

Compliance to the law of God in the Old Testament could be summed up in these words; “Do or die.” In the New Testament: “Die and do.”

The gospel message was given throughout the Old Testament and in the New Testament as well; from Genesis to Revelation.

Galatians 3:24
So the law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Still the same today ... the law is written on everyone's heart. Else how can God judge rightly?

There is nothing wrong with God's law .... that He should do away with it. If not for the law we would not know what sin is ... and could therefore not be led to repentance.

We cannot become holy on our own. God gives us his spirit to help us obey his word. He gives us the power to overcome sin.

The law leads us to Christ and then Christ leads us back to the law and helps us to uphold it (His works .... not ours) ... He helps us to overcome sin (by His grace) ... sin is transgression of the law.

It is about reliance on Christ ... the old covenant was the fault of the people not relying on God, no fault with the law ... the people were relying on their own ability to keep the law rather than relying on God. The fault of the people is they did not ask God to help them keep covenant with Him and rather depended on themselves.

Exodus 24:7
Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read it to the people, who replied, "All that the LORD has spoken we will do, and we will be obedient."

Nothing has changed .... we are to rely on God to help us become obedient (overcome sin) and we are thankful and praise Him when He helps us do that.

No ... the new covenant is NOT opposed to the law ... the law is good and holy.

Romans 7:12

King James Bible
Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Amen! I appreciate the fact that you show the Gal 3 fact of the Law of God leading the lost to the Gospel and salvation - and you ALSO show the Heb 8:6-12 fact of the LAW written on the heart under the NEW Covenant AFTER salvation (as we also see in Rom 3:31). Many people only focus on the work of the Law on the lost person.

 

[BobRyan]

Well... Remember, the key was loving your neighbor as yourself.

So for your line of thought to work, I think you would want to show how loving your neighbor would fit with those activities you described.

You missed the point.

The commandments affirmed in the principle to "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18 don't get deleted by that command - but are affirmed and established by it.

 

[John Mullally]

But as soon as you eisegete the rule that by extreme inference gentiles should then be free to delete/ignore all of scripture if it is not in those 5 verses - you end up with "not a sin for gentiles to dishonor parents or to take God's name in vain".

they are not required to keep anything in scripture if it is not specified in the 5 sentence letter -- is the kind of teaching that the Bible scholars in almost all Christian denominations reject.

But I continue to like that you are willing to state the singular nature of your suggestion so clearly and repeatedly so the readers can do the comparison.

The Jerusalem Decree is the letter written to Gentile Believers and the scope of what the Apostles was getting at is not about identifying all acceptable behavior. Here is a snippet on how you reconcile it.

IN THE CONTEXT of the statement that the gentiles are in the synagogues every Sabbath hearing the teaching of Moses (which James points out as part of the solution to the problem that came up) - the christian gentiles are hearing scripture every week - as we see in Acts 13, in Acts 17 and in Acts 18. So then in that context the NT Jewish leaders of the Apostolic church chose only to emphasize certain risks for gentiles addressed by the command to avoid sexual sin, and avoid idol worship of any kind, as well as avoiding the eating of meat that still had blood in it. All things that the NT church considered a new gentile Christian to be at risk of falling into given their prior pagan life .

I don’t agree with there being a requirement to keep the Sabbath because it was only given to the Jews and it is not clearly stated as a requirement in Acts or the Epistles. The fact that early church believers got together on the Sabbath, says nothing about keeping the Sabbath.

I agree with your reasoning on the 4 things the Gentiles were required to abstain from in verse 29.

The Jerusalem Decree addresses the problem of Gentile believers being bullied by Judaizers. The Judaizers were not focused on moral law, they were trying to get the Gentile believers to comply with the Jewish ceremonial laws (i.e. outward laws given to the Jews and not discoverable by conscience). Most Jewish Ceremonial laws are not widely practiced by Christians. I put the Sabbath in the Ceremonial law category, as it is not discoverable by conscience - and thus the Jerusalem Decree indicates it is not required by Gentile believers. And again there is no specific requirement in Acts or the Epistles to keep the Sabbath.