Jesus is the Archangel Michael??

BobRyan · Jun 13, 2020

Major1 said:
Do you not realize that that action breaks the very 1st Commandment????

Only if you suppose that the Angel of the Lord and Michael are not the same person... which we do not.

details matter.

We are not arguing that someone else needs to agree that Michael is the Second person of the Godhead ... God the Son and also called "The Angel of the LORD" - as we do..

But we do argue for "getting it right" in otherwords no "strawman arguments" - freely oppose what we actually believe - that's fine.. but no need to make stuff up for us to believe as if we do believe whatever someone else would like to construct for us.

BobRyan · Jun 13, 2020

BobRyan said:
As all the scholars I listed in my post agree - Jesus is the "Angel of the Lord" and the "Angel of the Lord" is Jesus - the Creator, God.. and of course He is also known as Michael - same person "Creator God , who came in the flesh, 100% man and 100% God .. Jesus Created ALL things including ALL angels... even though He also goes by "Angel of the LORD" and the archangel Michael.-

Major1 said:
And YOu are making the same mistake as your lady friend. Jesus is NOT Michael and Michael is not Jesus.
.

We do not argue that you must agree with us that the archangel Michael is also the "Angel of the Lord" who is the 2nd person of the Godhead - infinite God himself. Feel free to differ with us on that... that is fine.

mmksparbud · Jun 13, 2020

Major1 said:
It seems to me that YOU were the one saying that Michael was the archangel and as such was the captain of the host of heaven.

You were trying to say that there are ONE and both are Michael/Jesus.

That is not Biblical and that is not what I said.

Jesus is Jesus and Michael is Michael. Jesus Christ created ALL the angles.

Except that Michael is not a created angel! He is Jesus, just as it is Jesus that is the Captain of the Host and the Angel of the Lord. The angel of the Lord is not a created angel and you said that He is Jesus---so why is archangel not Jesus also, just another title, if Angel of the Lord is not an angel?? That does not add up, to me!! However, if you want to believe archangel and angel of the Lord are different, it's your prerogative to do so. But we can go back and forth on this until we hear the voice of the Archangel and find out for ourselves---so I think maybe it's time to let the issue sit on our laps--OK?

BobRyan · Jun 13, 2020

Comparing the OP to the actual position of Adventists on the subject.

Dale said:
The founder of the Seventh Day Adventists, prophetess Ellen White, said that Jesus Christ is one and the same with the Archangel Michael mentioned in the Bible. This is a belief that the SDA have in common with the Jehovah's Witnesses. ...
....
Here is a question for Seventh Day Adventists: Am I missing something? ....

And of course Jehovah's Witnesses DO NOT teach that the Angel of the Lord , and the Archangel Michael are one and the same person as infinite God - the second person of the Godhead, Jesus.. but SDAs like Ellen White do. (Even though this is not one of the 28 fundamental beliefs and never has been.. not even in the 1800's)

so we get this response to the OP

CaspianSails said:
She would be incorrect and thus disqualified as a prophetess. Christ is God.

Which would be a logical conclusion - were the accusation made in the OP - actually true.

mmksparbud said:
Except that Michael is not a created angel! He is Jesus, just as it is Jesus that is the Captain of the Host and the Angel of the Lord. The angel of the Lord is not a created angel and you said that He is Jesus---so why is archangel not Jesus also, just another title, if Angel of the Lord is not an angel?? That does not add up, to me!!

That is the "Actual difference" ... Jesus = Angel of the Lord = Infinite God = 2nd person of the Godhead = Michael the archangel... as one and the same person. One God in three persons with the second person being identified above.

As compared to the OP "SAME as the Jehovah's Witnesses" who in fact do NOT teach that Michael is infinite God - the second person of the Godhead..

So we can see that some may not agree with this name being ALSO applied to the second person of the Godhead who are not SDA -- and that is fine. That is where the real difference is.

Tim Ray · Jun 13, 2020

Dale said:
Major,
To continue my reply ...

I have heard many strange and unfounded ideas from the SDA. Their claim that Satan will die for our sins, after Jesus already did, is their worst idea. This foolish claim strikes at the heart of Christianity and I am most worried about that one.

Dale
Let me clear up this false teaching you have heard, maybe even from an Adventist. First, I'm sure we both would agree that not all members of various faiths clearly understand all that their faith teaches. Therefore, none of us using this forum should be spreading hearsay about someones else's faith group without first confirming what they intend to put before this forum, before they research the publications of that faith groups first. Getting their facts from the source and not second or third hand, and worst of all just hearsay.

Does this not sound reasonable, honorable, and Christ like?

Now I will quote and reference from the, (Seventh-day Adventist Answer Questions on Doctrine, pgs. 396,398)

Q. What is the actual teaching of Seventh-day Adventists regarding the "scapegoat" in the sanctuary service? Do you hold that the sins of the righteous are rolled back on Satan, so that in the end he becomes your sin bearer?

A. Now concerning my sin, Christ died for my sins (Rom. 5:8)...His blood alone cleanses me from all sin (1 John 1:7). The atonement for my sin is made solely by the shed blood of Christ.

Dale, I hope this relieves the worry you have over this issue. Too, I think it would be Christ like for you to offer the readers of this forum a sincere apology for spreading something that is totally false.

pasifika · Jun 14, 2020

BobRyan said:
Only if you suppose that the Angel of the Lord and Michael are not the same person... which we do not.

details matter.

We are not arguing that someone else needs to agree that Michael is the Second person of the Godhead ... God the Son and also called "The Angel of the LORD" - as we do..

But we do argue for "getting it right" in otherwords no "strawman arguments" - freely oppose what we actually believe - that's fine.. but no need to make stuff up for us to believe as if we do believe whatever someone else would like to construct for us.

“Angel of the Lord”...so who is the Lord? And how many Lord(s)?...give you a hint... Ephesians 4:5..ONE Lord, one faith, one baptism, ONE God and Father of All....

Ephesians 1:2...Grace and peace to you from God our Father And the Lord Jesus Christ...

so neither the Lord or God is called “Angel of the Lord”...

BobRyan · Jun 14, 2020

pasifika said:
“Angel of the Lord”...so who is the Lord? And how many Lord(s)?...give you a hint... Ephesians 4:5..ONE Lord, one faith, one baptism, ONE God and Father of All....

Ephesians 1:2...Grace and peace to you from God our Father And the Lord Jesus Christ...

so neither the Lord or God is called “Angel of the Lord”...

Matt 28:19 "in the NAME of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit "
Deut 6:4 "The LORD your God is ONE"
John 10:30 "I and the Father are ONE"
John 17:22 "that THEY may be ONE even as WE are ONE"

ONE God in THREE persons

BobRyan · Jun 14, 2020

Dale said:
I have heard many strange and unfounded ideas from the SDA. Their claim that Satan will die for our sins, after Jesus already did, is their worst idea. This foolish claim strikes at the heart of Christianity and I am most worried about that one.

You should be worried about it -- it is a false accusation

1. that is not part of our 28 fundamental beliefs and never was.
2. We never claimed that Satan would die "for us" in any way - his death will not be a substitutionary atoning sacrice
3. The scapegoat of Lev 16 is not a sin offering... once identified the term "THE Sin OFFERING" in Lev 16 only applies to the Lord's goat.
4. We accept the fact that Satan is guilty not only for his sins, not only for tempting his own loyal followers , but he has ADDED guilt for tempting and harassing those who are not at all his own followers and that added guilt is what he is accountable for in Lev 16 -- in addition to all his other guilt. That added guilt is only known to the "myriads and myriads" in Dan 7:10 after the judgment completes.

Tim Ray said:
Dale, I hope this relieves the worry you have over this issue. Too, I think it would be Christ like for you to offer the readers of this forum a sincere apology for spreading something that is totally false.

I like that optimism... nice!

BobRyan · Jun 14, 2020

Dale said:
Major,
The SDA claim that Moses resurrected from the dead before the Israelites crossed the Jordan in many ways is far more dangerous. It seems to make Moses the equal or near-equal of Christ, and leaves the New Testament with little advantage over the Old Testament. This fits with the generally Old Testament-oriented views of the SDA. Maybe this is why they find the idea so attractive. .

false accusations seem to be a pattern there

1. the book "The Assumption of Moses" was not written by SDAs - it was written before the time of Christ.
2. That book is quoted in Jude regarding the resurrection of Moses -- and Jude was not a member in the SDA denomination at the time.
3. Moses stands WITH CHRIST in glory before the cross - in Matthew 17 - and Matthew was not a disciple of Ellen White.
4. That happens because there has been ONE Gospel in all of time Gal 1:6-9 according to Paul and THAT Gospel was "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8 -- a bible fact known to Seventh-day Adventists but not WRITTEN by Seventh-day Adventists. Hence Moses and Elijah are both with Christ in Glory in Matthew 17 - fully saved under that ONE Gospel.

Bible details are always getting in the way of false accusations.

pasifika · Jun 14, 2020

BobRyan said:
Matt 28:19 "in the NAME of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit "
Deut 6:4 "The LORD your God is ONE"
John 10:30 "I and the Father are ONE"
John 17:22 "that THEY may be ONE even as WE are ONE"

ONE God in THREE persons

So who are the three persons? Any of them called angel of the Lord?

BobRyan · Jun 14, 2020

pasifika said:
So who are the three persons? Any of them called angel of the Lord?

according to this post "yes"

BobRyan said:
a more "generic" form this this post

would be
Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary - author Bob McCabe

Example 1

Ex 3:1-2 Now Moses was pasturing the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian; and he led the flock to the west side of the wilderness and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. 2 The angel of the Lord appeared to him in a blazing fire from the midst of a bush; and he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, yet the bush was not consumed.

"The first passage is found in Exodus 3:1–14. While tending the flock of his father-in-law at Horeb, Moses saw that a burning bush was not being consumed by the fire. As he approached the bush, v. 2 clearly states that the angel of the LORD appeared to him in the flames of the bush. It is stated in v. 4 that the LORD spoke to him from within the bush. In v. 6 the Being in the bush further identifies that He was the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. As the conversation continues between these two, the Being in the bush announces His name, “I AM WHO I AM” (v. 14). Thus, this passage indicates that the angel of the LORD mentioned in v. 2 is clearly identified by Himself and accepted by Moses as the infinite God.

Example 2

Zechariah 3:1–10... the antecedent of “he” is the interpreting angel (he is referred to in 1:9, 14, 19; 2:3; 4:1, 3, 5; etc.; in light of 1:9 the interpreting angel was apparently present to explain some of the details of these visions to Zechariah), the antecedent of “me” is Zechariah, the angel of the LORD, and Satan. In this verse Joshua is described as standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan is pictured as standing at the right hand of the angel of the LORD to resist him. With this introduction to the vision we should note that the angel of the LORD is the focal point around which the following context revolves.

"The first half of v. 2 reads like this: “The LORD said to Satan, ‘The LORD rebuke you, Satan!’” In light of the participants mentioned in v. 1, we could read this verse in this fashion: “And the LORD, that is the angel of the LORD, said unto Satan, ‘The LORD rebuke you, Satan.’” Therefore, v. 2 identifies the angel of the LORD as the LORD and indicates that there is a distinction between the angel of the LORD and the LORD. This identification is further substantiated in v. 4. If we follow the context of vv. 2–4 carefully, we should notice that it is the angel of the LORD who forgives sin in v. 4. Since God is the only one who forgives sin, it is readily apparent that the angel of the LORD is God. Consequently, this passage provides solid support for both the deity of the angel of the LORD and his distinctiveness from the LORD.

Who is both deity and yet a distinct person from the LORD? Since no one has ever seen God the Father (John 1:18; 1 Tim 6:16) and since the Holy Spirit never takes on bodily form, this suggests that the supernatural Being to which this expression refers is the second member of the Trinity (also compare Exod 3:14 with John 8:58). Therefore, the angel of the LORD was a temporary manifestation of the LORD Jesus Christ in a preincarnate form
"
=========================end quote

As for the scholarship agreeing with Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary - author Bob McCabe

Some examples:

Friday at 10:53 PM #19

...

Adam Clarke Commentary
Exodus 3 Verse 2

The angel of the Lord - Not a created angel certainly; for he is called יהוה Jehovah, Exodus 3:4, etc., and has the most expressive attributes of the Godhead applied to him, Exodus 3:14, etc. Yet he is an angel, מלאך malach, a messenger, in whom was the name of God, Exodus 23:21; and in whom dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead bodily, Colossians 2:9; and who, in all these primitive times, was the Messenger of the covenant, Malachi 3:1. And who was this but Jesus, the Leader, Redeemer, and Savior of mankind? See Clarke's note on Genesis 16:7.

=================

James Burton Coffman
Ex 3 Verse 2-3

"And the angel of Jehovah appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. And Moses said, I will turn aside now, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt."

"The angel of Jehovah ..." As the context proves, "The Angel of Jehovah is not a created angel but Jehovah himself in his act of self-revelation."[10] This is merely another name for God, of which there are many in the Bible. Although this verse does not indicate it, there is reason to believe that the Angel of Jehovah should be identified with our Lord Jesus Christ, the Second Person of the Godhead; he is also called the Angel of the Covenant.[11]

=================================
Jamieson Fausset Brown
Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible

Verse 2-3

the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire — It is common in Scripture to represent the elements and operations of nature, as winds, fires, earthquakes, pestilence, everything enlisted in executing the divine will, as the “angels” or messengers of God. But in such cases God Himself is considered as really, though invisibly, present. Here the preternatural fire may be primarily meant by the expression “angel of the Lord”; but it is clear that under this symbol, the Divine Being was present, whose name is given (Exodus 3:4, Exodus 3:6), and elsewhere called the angel of the covenant, Jehovah-Jesus.

=========================================

So then two opinions --

here is one -

Albert Barnes Commentary

Exodus 3
Ex 3:1-2 Now Moses was pasturing the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian; and he led the flock to the west side of the wilderness and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. 2 The angel of the Lord appeared to him in a blazing fire from the midst of a bush; and he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, yet the bush was not consumed.

vs 2
What Moses saw was the flame of fire in the bush; what he recognized therein was an intimation of the presence of God, who maketh a flame of fire His angel. Compare Psalm 104:4. The words which Moses heard were those of God Himself, as all ancient and most modern divines have held, manifested in the Person of the Son

=========== and here is another list of those who agree

Albert Barnes
James Burton Coffman
Adam Clarke Commentary
Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary Bob McCabe

R.C.Sproul
The Angel of the LORD
Verse 7 tells us “the angel of the Lord” found Hagar at the spring. This angel is no mere messenger of God, even though royal messengers in those days were treated with the same respect as the sender. When the angel of the Lord appears elsewhere in Scripture, people fall down in worship (see Judg. 6:22–24). After seeing the angel, Hagar addresses him as God (Gen. 16:13). This angel appeared mainly during the period recounted in Genesis and Judges, and, while the New Testament does not explicitly identify the angel with the Son of God, many in church history have identified this messenger as the pre-incarnate Christ.

pasifika · Jun 14, 2020

BobRyan said:
according to this post "yes"

How about according to the Bible since the three persons who mentioned are from the Bible?

Major1 · Jun 14, 2020

mmksparbud said:
Except that Michael is not a created angel! He is Jesus, just as it is Jesus that is the Captain of the Host and the Angel of the Lord. The angel of the Lord is not a created angel and you said that He is Jesus---so why is archangel not Jesus also, just another title, if Angel of the Lord is not an angel?? That does not add up, to me!! However, if you want to believe archangel and angel of the Lord are different, it's your prerogative to do so. But we can go back and forth on this until we hear the voice of the Archangel and find out for ourselves---so I think maybe it's time to let the issue sit on our laps--OK?

Post the Scripture that confirms your opinion! UNTILL YOU DO it is just an opinion and nothing more to me.

Before you start looking allow me to help you...…….
The Bible nowhere identifies Jesus as Michael or any other angel, for that matter.

ALL angels were Created BY Jesus Christ my dear.

IF you would spli away from the false teachings of the SDA you could learn a lot of REAL BIBLE stuff.

Major1 · Jun 14, 2020

BobRyan said:
false accusations seem to be a pattern there

1. the book "The Assumption of Moses" was not written by SDAs - it was written before the time of Christ.
2. That book is quoted in Jude regarding the resurrection of Moses -- and Jude was not a member in the SDA denomination at the time.
3. Moses stands WITH CHRIST in glory before the cross - in Matthew 17 - and Matthew was not a disciple of Ellen White.
4. That happens because there has been ONE Gospel in all of time Gal 1:6-9 according to Paul and THAT Gospel was "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8 -- a bible fact known to Seventh-day Adventists but not WRITTEN by Seventh-day Adventists. Hence Moses and Elijah are both with Christ in Glory in Matthew 17 - fully saved under that ONE Gospel.

Bible details are always getting in the way of false accusations.

LOOK at the post again Bob.

1. NO ONE said the SDA wrote that. It was said that the SDA CLAIM or as most understood...embrace the idea.

2. No one said he was. Jude was probably Southern Baptist.

3. YES he did. That was the Transfiguration and Moses represent the Law. And as what was posted stands.....The SDA claim that Moses resurrected from the dead before the Israelites crossed the Jordan in many ways is far more dangerous. It seems to make Moses the equal or near-equal of Christ.

4. It happened because of their FAITH. Just as did Abraham, they believed the Word of God. God preached to Abraham at the time he was about to offer Issac. That is the picture of the gospel where a ram took the place of a man just as Jesus took our place in death for us.

BobRyan · Jun 14, 2020

Dale said:
Major,
The SDA claim that Moses resurrected from the dead before the Israelites crossed the Jordan in many ways is far more dangerous. It seems to make Moses the equal or near-equal of Christ, and leaves the New Testament with little advantage over the Old Testament. This fits with the generally Old Testament-oriented views of the SDA. Maybe this is why they find the idea so attractive. .

false accusations seem to be a pattern there

1. the book "The Assumption of Moses" was not written by SDAs - it was written before the time of Christ.
2. That book is quoted in Jude regarding the resurrection of Moses -- and Jude was not a member in the SDA denomination at the time.
3. Moses stands WITH CHRIST in glory before the cross - in Matthew 17 - and Matthew was not a disciple of Ellen White.
4. That happens because there has been ONE Gospel in all of time Gal 1:6-9 according to Paul and THAT Gospel was "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8 -- a bible fact known to Seventh-day Adventists but not WRITTEN by Seventh-day Adventists. Hence Moses and Elijah are both with Christ in Glory in Matthew 17 - fully saved under that ONE Gospel.

Bible details are always getting in the way of false accusations.

Major1 said:
LOOK at the post again Bob.

1. NO ONE said the SDA wrote that. It was said that the SDA CLAIM or as most understood...embrace the idea.

LOOK at my response

SDAs admit to what is in the book "The Assumption of Moses" quoted by JUDE in the Bible.

SDAs admit to the fact of Matthew 17 where Moses stands WITH Christ in glory.
1. you cannot blame Adventists for the resurrection of Moses before the cross.
2. you cannot blame Adventists for the Bible fact that Moses stands with Christ in glory in Matthew 17 before the cross.
3. Just like you cannot blame Adventists for the fact that Enoch and Elijah ascended to heaven - translated - before the cross, before Christ rose from the dead -- and so then Elijah also standing with Christ in glory in Matthew 17 before the cross.

All of them saved by that "one and only Gospel" of Gal 1:6-9

Major1 said:
3. YES he did. That was the Transfiguration

Well then we have at least one Bible detail admitted to and agreed upon - Moses IN glory WITH Christ - BEFORE the cross.

I will take that.

Major1 said:
The SDA claim that Moses resurrected from the dead before the Israelites crossed the Jordan

because we are aware of the book 'the Assumption of Moses" quoted in the book of Jude

Major1 said:
in many ways is far more dangerous.

to each his own you are welcome to your own summations of course. good luck with that.

Major1 said:
It seems to make Moses the equal or near-equal of Christ.

on the contrary -- it puts in "in glory with Christ before the cross" in Matt 17
. It happened because of their FAITH. Just as did Abraham, they believed the Word of God. They accepted the Gospel

mmksparbud · Jun 14, 2020

Major1 said:
Post the Scripture that confirms your opinion! UNTILL YOU DO it is just an opinion and nothing more to me.

Before you start looking allow me to help you...…….
The Bible nowhere identifies Jesus as Michael or any other angel, for that matter.

ALL angels were Created BY Jesus Christ my dear.

IF you would spli away from the false teachings of the SDA you could learn a lot of REAL BIBLE stuff.

But you agreed that the angel of the Lord is Jesus! So why the double standard? The angel of the Lord , the archangel---0ow can your angel be Jesus and archangel not be?? They are one and the same---by your definition, the ANGEL OF THE Lord clan not be Jesus, yet you have men worshipping Him.

BobRyan · Jun 14, 2020

mmksparbud said:
But you agreed that the angel of the Lord is Jesus! So why the double standard? The angel of the Lord , the archangel---0ow can your angel be Jesus and archangel not be?? They are one and the same---by your definition, the ANGEL OF THE Lord clan not be Jesus, yet you have men worshipping Him.

While that is a good argument of course - there is also this.

1. There is no doctrine in the SDA 28 fundamental beliefs saying that Christ is Michael.
2. There is no requirement that other people agree with us that of the many names and titles given to God the Son, the second person of the Trinity -- Michael is one of them.

If all they want to do is "differ" on point 2.. fine. what difference does it make?

mmksparbud · Jun 14, 2020

BobRyan said:
While that is a good argument of course - there is also this.

1. There is no doctrine in the SDA 28 fundamental beliefs saying that Christ is Michael.
2. There is no requirement that other people agree with us that of the many names and titles given to God the Son, the second person of the Trinity -- Michael is one of them.

If all they want to do is "differ" on point 2.. fine. what difference does it make?

That is why it makes no sense to me to accept one angel as Jesus (angel of the Lord)but say another angel is an angel and therefore can not be Jesus and Captain of the Host is accepte4d as Jesus. This is just not consistent.
Captain of the Host has the same connotation that archangel has. Leader of them---and why not---since He created them. It is not a point of salvation.

mmksparbud · Jun 14, 2020

Major1 said:
NOPE! I knew that was what you were trying to say. WRONG!!!!

As GOD, "The angle of the Lord" who is Jesus Christ and HE is the Captain of ALL things.

Again.....why not answer the question posed to you.

IF the Archangel Michael was the "Angel of the Lord, who visited Joshua, WHY DID HE ALLOW JOSUHA TO BOW DOWN AND WORSHIP HIM.

Do you not realize that that action breaks the very 1st Commandment????

Why do you ask a question that has already been answered? The angel of the Lord, Captain of the Host, Archangel---are ALL another name for the pre-incarnate Christ. Again, You say the Angel of the Lord is Christ, but refuse to admit that archangel is also Jesus, though both use the word angel! YOU ARE TOTALLY INCONSISTANT. There are many names for God. Many of which call Him something that if taken literally, would mean He is something He obviously is not---such as Lamb--He is not an actual animal, lamb. Just as He is not an actual angel--Angel of the Lord. Here are some other names for Him, He has many!!

A
ABBA (Romans 8:15)
ADVOCATE (I John 2:1 kjv)
ALMIGHTY (Genesis 17:1)
ALL IN ALL (Colossians 3:11)
ALPHA (Revelation 22:13)
AMEN (Revelation 3:14)
ANCIENT OF DAYS (Daniel 7:9)
ANOINTED ONE (Psalm 2:2)
APOSTLE (Hebrews 3:1)
ARM OF THE LORD (Isaiah 53:1)
AUTHOR OF ETERNAL SALVATION (Hebrews 5:9)
AUTHOR OF OUR FAITH (Hebrews 12:2)
AUTHOR OF PEACE (1 Cor. 14:33)
AVENGER (1 Thessalonians 4:6)

B
BEGINNING (Revelation 21:6)
BISHOP OF SOULS (1 Peter 2:25)
BLESSED & HOLY RULER (1 Timothy 6:15)
BRANCH (Jeremiah 33:15)
BREAD OF GOD (John 6:33)
BREAD OF LIFE (John 6:35)
BREATH OF LIFE (Genesis 2:7, Revelation 11:11)
BRIDEGROOM (Isaiah 62:5)
BRIGHT MORNING STAR (Revelation 22:16)
BUCKLER (2 Sam.22:31 kjv,Psalm 18:2 kjv, Psalm 18:30 kjv,Proverbs 2:7 kjv)

C
CAPTAIN OF SALVATION (Hebrews 2:10)
CARPENTER (Mark 6:3)
CHIEF SHEPHERD (1 Peter 5:4)
CHOSEN ONE (Isaiah 42:1)
CHRIST (Matthew 22:42)
CHRIST OF GOD (Luke 9:20)
CHRIST THE LORD (Luke 2:11)
CHRIST, SON OF LIVING GOD (Matthew 16:16)
COMFORTER (John 14:26 kjv)
COMMANDER (Isaiah 55:4)
CONSOLATION OF ISRAEL (Luke 2:25)
CONSUMING FIRE (Deut. 4:24, Heb. 12:29)
CORNERSTONE (Isaiah 28:16)
COUNSELOR (Isaiah 9:6)
CREATOR (1 Peter 4:19)
CROWN OF BEAUTY (Isaiah 28:5)

C
DAYSPRING (Luke 1:78)
DELIVERER (Romans 11:26)
DESIRED OF ALL NATIONS (Haggai 2:7)
DIADEM OF BEAUTY (Isaiah 28:5)
DOOR (John 10:7 kjv)
DWELLING PLACE (Psalm 90:1)

E
ELECT ONE (Isaiah 42:1)
EMMANUEL (Matthew 1:23 kjv)
END (Revelation 21:6)
ETERNAL GOD (Deut. 33:27)
ETERNAL LIFE (1 John 5:20)
ETERNAL SPIRIT (Hebrews 9:14)
EVERLASTING FATHER (Isaiah 9:6)
EVERLASTING GOD (Genesis 21:33)
EXCELLENT (Psalm 148:13 kjv)

F
FAITHFUL & TRUE (Revelation 19:11)
FAITHFUL WITNESS (Revelation 1:5)
FATHER (Matthew 6:9)
FIRSTBORN (Rom.8:29, Rev.1:5, Col.1:15)
FIRSTFRUITS (1 Cor.15:20-23)
FORTRESS (Jeremiah 16:19)
FOUNDATION (1 Cor. 3:11)
FOUNTAIN OF LIVING WATERS (Jeremiah 2:13)
FRIEND (Matthew 11:19)
FULLERS’ SOAP (Malachi 3:2 kjv)

G
GENTLE WHISPER (1 Kings 19:12)
GIFT OF GOD (John 4:10)
GLORY OF THE LORD (Isaiah 40:5)
GOD (Genesis 1:1)
GOD ALMIGHTY (Genesis 17:1)
GOD OF THE WHOLE EARTH (Isaiah 54:5)
GOD OVER ALL (Romans 9:5)
GOD WHO SEES ME (Genesis 16:13)
GOODNESS (Psalm 144:2 kjv)
GOOD SHEPHERD (John 10:11)
GOVERNOR (Psalm 22:28 kjv)
GREAT HIGH PRIEST (Hebrews 4:14)
GREAT SHEPHERD (Hebrews 13:20)
GUIDE (Psalm 48:14)

H
HEAD OF THE BODY (Colossians 1:18)
HEAD OF THE CHURCH (Ephesians 5:23)
HEIR OF ALL THINGS (Hebrews 1:2)
HIDING PLACE (Psalm 32:7)
HIGHEST (Luke 1:76)
HIGH PRIEST (Hebrews 3:1)
HIGH PRIEST FOREVER (Hebrews 6:20)
HOLY GHOST (John 14:26)
HOLY ONE (Acts 2:27)
HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL (Isaiah 49:7)
HOLY SPIRIT (John 15:26)
HOPE (Titus 2:13)
HORN OF SALVATION (Luke 1:69)
HUSBAND (Isaiah 54:5, Jer. 31:32, Hosea 2:16)

I
I AM (Exodus 3:14, John 8:58)
IMAGE OF GOD (2 Cor. 4:4)
IMAGE OF HIS PERSON (Hebrews 1:3 kjv)
IMMANUEL (Isaiah 7:14)
INTERCESSOR (Romans 8:26,27,34 Hebrews 7:25)

J
JAH (Psalm 68:4 kjv)
JEALOUS (Exodus 34:14 kjv)
JEHOVAH (Psalm 83:18 kjv)
JESUS (Matthew 1:21)
JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD (Romans 6:23)
JUDGE (Isaiah 33:22, Acts 10:42)
JUST ONE (Acts 22:14)

K
KEEPER (Psalm 121:5)
KING (Zechariah 9:9)
KING ETERNAL (1 Timothy 1:17)
KING OF GLORY (Psalm 24:10)
KING OF JEWS (Matthew 27:11)
KING OF KINGS (1 Timothy 6:15)
KING OF SAINTS (Revelation 15:3)

L
LAMB OF GOD (John 1:29)
LAST ADAM (1 Cor. 15:45)
LAWGIVER (Isaiah 33:22)
LEADER (Isaiah 55:4)
LIFE (John 14:6)
LIGHT OF THE WORLD (John 8:12)
LIKE AN EAGLE (Deut. 32:11)
LILY OF THE VALLEYS (Song 2:1)
LION OF THE TRIBE OF JUDAH (Revelation 5:5)
LIVING GOD (Daniel 6:20)
LIVING STONE (1 Peter 2:4)
LIVING WATER (John 4:10)
LORD (John 13:13)
LORD GOD ALMIGHTY (Revelation 15:3)
LORD GOD OF HOSTS (Jeremiah 15:16)
LORD JESUS CHRIST (1 Cor. 15:57)
LORD OF ALL (Acts 10:36)
LORD OF GLORY (1 Cor. 2:8)
LORD OF HARVEST (Matthew 9:38)
LORD OF HOSTS (Haggai 1:5)
LORD OF LORDS (1 Tim. 6:15)
LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS (Jeremiah 23:6)
LOVE (1 John 4:8)
LOVINGKINDNESS (Psalm 144:2)

M
MAKER (Job 35:10, Psalm 95:6)
MAJESTY ON HIGH (Hebrews 1:3)
MAN OF SORROWS (Isaiah 53:3)
MASTER (Luke 5:5)
MEDIATOR (1 Timothy 2:5)
MERCIFUL GOD (Jeremiah 3:12)
MESSENGER OF THE COVENANT (Malachi 3:1)
MESSIAH (John 4:25)
MIGHTY GOD (Isaiah 9:6)
MIGHTY ONE (Isaiah 60:16)
MOST UPRIGHT (Isaiah 26:7)

N
NAZARENE (Matthew 2:23)

O
OFFSPRING OF DAVID (Revelation 22:16)
OMEGA (Revelation 22:13)
ONLY BEGOTTEN SON (John 1:18 kjv)
OUR PASSOVER LAMB (1 Cor. 5:7)
OUR PEACE (Ephesians 2:14)

P
PHYSICIAN (Luke 4:23)
PORTION (Psalm 73:26,Psalm 119:57)
POTENTATE (1 Timothy 6:15)
POTTER (Isaiah 64:8)
POWER OF GOD (1 Cor. 1:24)
PRINCE OF LIFE (Acts 3:15)
PRINCE OF PEACE (Isaiah 9:6)
PROPHET (Acts 3:22)
PROPHET OF THE HIGHEST (Luke 1:76)
PROPITIATION (1John 2:2, 1John 4:10)
PURIFIER (Malachi 3:3)

Q
QUICKENING SPIRIT (1 Corinthians 15:45 kjv)

R
RABBONI (TEACHER) (John 20:16)
RADIANCE OF GOD’S GLORY (Heb.1:3)
REDEEMER (Job 19:25)
REFINER’S FIRE (Malachi 3:2)
REFUGE (Jeremiah 16:19)
RESURRECTION (John 11:25)
REWARDER (Hebrews 11:6)
RIGHTEOUS ONE (1 John 2:1)
ROCK (1 Cor.10:4)
ROOT OF DAVID (Rev. 22:16)
ROSE OF SHARON (Song 2:1)
RULER OF GOD’S CREATION (Rev. 3:14)
RULER OVER KINGS OF EARTH (Rev 1:5)
RULER OVER ISRAEL (Micah 5:2)

S
SAVIOR (Luke 2:11)
SCEPTRE (Numbers 24:17)
SEED (Genesis 3:15)
SERVANT (Isaiah 42:1)
SHADE (Psalm 121:5)
SHEPHERD OF OUR SOULS (1Peter 2:25)
SHIELD (Genesis 15:1)
SHILOH (Genesis 49:10)
SONG (Exodus 15:2, Isaiah 12:2)
SON OF DAVID (Matthew 1:1)
SON OF GOD (Matthew 27:54)
SON OF MAN (Matthew 8:20)
SON OF THE MOST HIGH (Luke 1:32)
SOURCE (Hebrews 5:9)
SPIRIT (John 4:24)
SPIRIT OF ADOPTION (Romans 8:15)
SPIRIT OF GOD (Genesis 1:2)
SPIRIT OF TRUTH (John 14:17,15:26,16:13)
STAR OUT OF JACOB (Numbers 24:17)
STRENGTH (Jeremiah 16:19)
STONE (1 Peter 2:8)
STONE OF ISRAEL (Genesis 49:24)
STRONGHOLD (Nahum 1:7)
STRONG TOWER (Proverbs 18:10)
SUN OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (Malachi 4:2)

T
TEACHER (John 13:13)
TEMPLE (Revelation 21:22)
THE ONE (Psalm 144:2,10)
TRUE LIGHT (John 1:9)
TRUE WITNESS (Revelation 3:14)
TRUTH (John 14:6)

V
VINE (John 15:5)

W
WALL OF FIRE (Zechariah 2:5)
WAY (John 14:6)
WISDOM OF GOD (1 Cor. 1:24)
WITNESS (Isaiah 55:4)
WONDERFUL (Isaiah 9:6)
WORD (John 1:1)
WORD OF GOD (Revelation 19:13)

Y
YAH (Isaiah 12:2 kjv, Psalm 68:4 nkjv)

Dale · Jun 15, 2020

Tim Ray said:
I won't defend Mrs. White here, but rather share some Biblical insights you might wish to consider.

Michael the Archangel
According to John 1 and other Bible passages, Jesus is a God who lived with the Father before the world was created. Most Christians have no problem with the idea that a member of deity was made into the likeness of a human form and we call Him, "Jesus." "he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death — even death on a cross!" (Philippians 2:7-8) Prior to His arrival on Earth, the Bible teaches that Jesus lived in the form or likeness of an angel. To some people, the idea that Jesus is the Michael the Archangel seems utterly impossible.

Consider the irony: It is acceptable to many people that Jesus lived as an unremarkable man when on Earth (Isaiah 53:2) but somehow it is blasphemey that he lived as the archangel before coming to Earth! Somehow, the form of a man is a higher position that the form of an angel. Some people are worried that if Jesus lived in the form of an angel, this would make him a created being, less than deity — but living in the form of man does not incur the same limitations. Worse, some religious groups do not accept that Jesus is the God of the Old Testament. The Bible teaches that Jesus is "the Word," He speaks for the Father and 99% of the references in the Old Testament pertain to Jesus precisely because one God is speaking for another God. There is ample proof in the Bible that the person known as “Michael, the Archangel” can be identified as Jesus without detracting anything from His divinity. Let's examine this interesting puzzle point by point.

POINT ONE: When Jesus was born in human flesh through the virgin, Mary, the prophetic utterances of the Holy Spirit gave Him many appropriate names. A few of these are:
Immanuel (God is with us) – Matthew 1:23
Jesus (Savior) – Matthew 1:21
Lamb of God – John 1:29
Christ (Messiah, anointed One or King) – John 1:41

The Bible also reveals that the devil's name was “Lucifer” before he rebelled against God. After being thrown out of Heaven, Lucifer acquired a new name called “Satan.” (Isaiah 14:12 and Revelation 12:9) Since we know Jesus existed throughout the ages of eternity long before coming as a babe to Bethlehem, it is logical to assume that He, too, had some Heavenly name before His earthly experience.

POINT TWO: In Biblical times, names were regarded as profoundly important. Nearly every name had a meaning. A few examples will illustrate this point:
El (these letters in a name pertained to God)
Elijah (my God is Jehovah)
Daniel (judgment of God)
Gabriel (man of God)
Michael (one who is like God)

Unless our intention is to be blasphemous, we must recognize that no one is like God – except God Himself. The Bible is clear that it was Lucifer's pride which prompted him to say, “I will be like the Most High.” (Isaiah 14:13-14) Who was he referring to? By now I am sure that the devil understands that no created being – even a dazzling angel like Lucifer – can ever be equal to his Creator.

POINT THREE: The prefix “arch” comes from a Greek word meaning “ruler” or one who rules over, such as in the word “monarch.” We know that our Heavenly Father, as God, rules and reigns over all faithful believers without being a human Himself. By the same token, Jesus can assume the position of ruler over all the angels without being an angel (created being) Himself.

So, by saying that Jesus is Michael, the Archangel, the Bible is simply calling Him the Supreme Commander of the angelic host, just as our United States President is called the Commander-in-Chief of all the armed forces. This does not mean that the President is a soldier, wearing a uniform. He is above every foot soldier, sailor, airman or marine. He outranks them and rules them, according to the United States Constitution.

To demonstrate this further, consider Genesis 1:28. Here we read that in the beginning God gave man “dominion over” all creatures of the animal kingdom, whether fish, fowl, or animal. “Dominion” means lordship or authority to rule. Thus God placed man in charge of His creation, dominating the animals as a lord rules his subjects. If man can rule the animal kingdom without being an animal himself, no one should insist that Christ cannot be the archangel without being a created angel Himself. Therefore, it should not surprise us that according to the Bible, Jesus Christ has the honor of being “Commander-in-Chief” and has “dominion” over all the angelic forces of Heaven. Serving in this capacity does not detract from His deity or make Him in any way a created being.

POINT FOUR: The Old Testament contains a fascinating story of a human encounter with the Heavenly Commander-in-Chief. “Now when Joshua was near Jericho, he looked up and saw a man standing in front of him with a drawn sword in his hand. Joshua went up to him and asked, ‘Are you for us or for our enemies?‘ ‘Neither,’ he replied, ‘but as commander of the army of the LORD I have now come.’ Then Joshua fell face down to the ground in reverence, and asked him, ‘What message does my Lord have for his servant?’ The commander of the Lord's army replied, ‘Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy.’ And Joshua did so.” (Joshua 5:13-15)

On this occasion, Joshua is being visited by the Lord Jesus Christ in his pre-incarnate form. Throughout the Old Testament, the Bible mentions the Lord appearing to individuals, such as Abraham (Genesis 18:1-33) and Jacob (Genesis 32:24-30). On this particular occasion with Joshua, verse 13 says that Joshua looked up and saw a “man standing in front of him with a drawn sword.” When Joshua asks who he is, Joshua is told that he is the “Commander of the Lord's army.” The Living Bible says “I am Commander-in-Chief of the Lord's army.” This is just another way of saying He is the “Arch”angel, or ruler of the angel hosts. Even though He was identified as the Archangel, we know He was no mere angel for two reasons.

First, Joshua fell down and worshiped him, and the Being did not stop him from doing so. If Joshua had been worshiping an angel, he would have been immediately reprimanded. In both Revelation 19:10 and Revelation 22:8 and 9, John was told to stop worshiping the angel and told, “Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God!” Secondly, this divine Being not only accepts worship from Joshua, but also tells him to take off his shoes, for the place he was standing was holy. Moses received the same command when He met the Lord at the burning bush. (Exodus 3:1-6) It become clear that the leader of the Heavenly hosts is no mere angel, but our Lord, Jesus Christ, Himself.

POINT FIVE: There are other Scriptures that mention the name of Michael, revealing that He is a very special Person. These texts suggest that He must be, in fact, a heavenly Being of royal lineage. For instance, God sent the angel, Gabriel, to give a special message to the prophet Daniel (Daniel 8:16 and 9:21). This angel messenger told Daniel that “Michael” is “the great prince who protects your people.” A prince is the son of a king, of course, and Jesus is the Son of God, the King of Heaven. Gabriel, in the very same book calls the Messiah, “the Prince.” (Daniel 9:25).

Now please note what we've learned from the pen of the same inspired writer:

Messiah = the Prince

Michael = the great prince

If this is true, and two things equal to the same thing are equal to each other, this means the Messiah and Michael are one and the same Person, Jesus Christ.

POINT SIX: God's Word gives inspired insight into Lucifer's terrible rebellion against the government of God: “And there was war in heaven. Michael and His angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down — that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.” (Revelation 12:7-9)

Fortunately, this verse identifies “the dragon” as “that old serpent, called the devil, and Satan.” This leaves no question about the adversary's identity. It is interesting to note that in each of the four instances where the name Michael is used in Scripture, there is a conflict between Michael and Satan going on – age-old adversaries since the beginning of time.

POINT SEVEN: The only Bible verse frequently quoted by those who deny that Jesus is Michael, the Archangel, is Jude 1:9, which says, “But even the archangel Michael, when He was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, ‘The Lord rebuke you!’”

Some people believe this verse proves Jesus and Michael are not the same entity because Michael, in this text, rebukes the devil Himself, by saying, “The Lord rebuke you!” People reason that the Archangel cannot be the Lord for He is calling someone else, “the Lord.” It is always important to let the Bible be its own interpreter. Jude 1:9 becomes much clearer when compared with Zechariah 3:2, where Jesus again is confronting Satan. Zechariah 3:2 says: “The LORD said to Satan, ‘The LORD rebuke you, Satan!’ ” This verse is a perfect parallel to Jude 1:9 – almost a carbon copy – except the names are changed. In one text He is called Michael and in the other He is called the Lord. In both cases, one could argue that Michael/Lord was calling on His Heavenly Father to rebuke the devil. On both occasions, Christ knew it was pointless to argue with Lucifer’s closed mind – Lucifer had made his mind up long ago. Jesus knew that a day is coming, when as Lord and Judge of all the universe, He will rebuke Satan with finality, condemning him to the lake of fire.

Another possible interpretation of these two texts is to realize that Christ was simply speaking of Himself when He said, “The Lord rebuke you,” meaning, “I rebuke you.” Jesus often referred to Himself in the third person, saying things like: “When the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the Earth?” (Luke 18:8) Should we conclude that Jesus is not the Son of God simply because in John 3:16 He referred to Himself in the third person (“Whosoever believeth in Him”) rather than saying “in me?”

In reference to Moses’ death, the Bible states that the Lord, Himself, buried His faithful servant, but did not reveal to men where Moses’ grave was. (Deuteronomy 34:5-6) Jude reveals that Moses’ dead body was the subject of dispute between Christ and Satan. When the Prince of Life approached the lonely grave, Satan was alarmed. Satan claimed all who were in the grave as his captives and felt threatened by this invasion into “his territory.” The accuser of the brethren (Revelation 12:10) boasted that even Moses, who had been a faithful servant of God, had sinned and become his prisoner. Christ refused to argue with Satan, but then and there, performed His work of breaking the devil's power and bringing the dead to life. The New Testament indicates that Moses appeared with Elijah on the Mount of Transfiguration, so it is safe to conclude that the Lord triumphed in the contest with the devil and raised Moses from his grave.

How do we know it was Christ, Himself, and not a mere angel that contended with Satan over the resurrection of Moses' body? Angels, like ourselves, are created beings and have no power to create life. Satan and his angel followers are powerful, supernatural beings, but they are “fallen” and they are created beings. They may make it look like dead people are talking to mediums (i.e., seances), but they cannot create life. Although God empowered his faithful servants to resuscitate a dead person on a few occasions, those miracles were not resurrections to a glorious, immortal life. Miracles though they were, those people who were raised, later died again. They were not taken “bodily” to Heaven, as Moses and Elijah were. Only Christ, the Life-giver, can raise a dead person to eternal life. He is our only hope – not some angel. Keeping this all in mind, it is safe to conclude that the One who contended with Satan over Moses' body was a Heavenly Being far more powerful than any angel.
]

Tim Ray: " Prior to His arrival on Earth, the Bible teaches that Jesus lived in the form or likeness of an angel."

The Bible does not teach this. The Gospel of John is clear that Jesus existed prior to Incarnation but we are not told in what form.

I don't find your comments about Satan to be helpful.

Under Point 7

Tim Ray: " The accuser of the brethren (Revelation 12:10) boasted that even Moses, who had been a faithful servant of God, had sinned and become his prisoner."

Revelation 12:10 does not mention Moses. The only place Moses is mentioned in Revelation is Rev 15:3, which says that Moses is a loyal servant of God.

Tim Ray: " Prior to His arrival on Earth, the Bible teaches that Jesus lived in the form or likeness of an angel."

The Bible does not teach this. The Gospel of John is clear that Jesus existed prior to Incarnation but we are not told in what form.

I don't find your comments about Satan to be helpful.

Under Point 7

Tim Ray: " The accuser of the brethren (Revelation 12:10) boasted that even Moses, who had been a faithful servant of God, had sinned and become his prisoner."

Revelation 12:10 does not mention Moses. The only place Moses is mentioned in Revelation is Rev 15:3, which says that Moses is a loyal servant of God.

Jesus is the Archangel Michael??

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