Jesus is the Archangel Michael??

[BobRyan]

a more "generic" form this this post

The post you replied to included this text from Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary - author Bob McCabe

.

would be
Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary - author Bob McCabe


Example 1

Ex 3:1-2 Now Moses was pasturing the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian; and he led the flock to the west side of the wilderness and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. 2 The angel of the Lord appeared to him in a blazing fire from the midst of a bush; and he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, yet the bush was not consumed.

"The first passage is found in Exodus 3:1–14. While tending the flock of his father-in-law at Horeb, Moses saw that a burning bush was not being consumed by the fire. As he approached the bush, v. 2 clearly states that the angel of the LORD appeared to him in the flames of the bush. It is stated in v. 4 that the LORD spoke to him from within the bush. In v. 6 the Being in the bush further identifies that He was the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. As the conversation continues between these two, the Being in the bush announces His name, “I AM WHO I AM” (v. 14). Thus, this passage indicates that the angel of the LORD mentioned in v. 2 is clearly identified by Himself and accepted by Moses as the infinite God.

Example 2

Zechariah 3:1–10... the antecedent of “he” is the interpreting angel (he is referred to in 1:9, 14, 19; 2:3; 4:1, 3, 5; etc.; in light of 1:9 the interpreting angel was apparently present to explain some of the details of these visions to Zechariah), the antecedent of “me” is Zechariah, the angel of the LORD, and Satan. In this verse Joshua is described as standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan is pictured as standing at the right hand of the angel of the LORD to resist him. With this introduction to the vision we should note that the angel of the LORD is the focal point around which the following context revolves.

"The first half of v. 2 reads like this: “The LORD said to Satan, ‘The LORD rebuke you, Satan!’” In light of the participants mentioned in v. 1, we could read this verse in this fashion: “And the LORD, that is the angel of the LORD, said unto Satan, ‘The LORD rebuke you, Satan.’” Therefore, v. 2 identifies the angel of the LORD as the LORD and indicates that there is a distinction between the angel of the LORD and the LORD. This identification is further substantiated in v. 4. If we follow the context of vv. 2–4 carefully, we should notice that it is the angel of the LORD who forgives sin in v. 4. Since God is the only one who forgives sin, it is readily apparent that the angel of the LORD is God. Consequently, this passage provides solid support for both the deity of the angel of the LORD and his distinctiveness from the LORD.

Who is both deity and yet a distinct person from the LORD? Since no one has ever seen God the Father (John 1:18; 1 Tim 6:16) and since the Holy Spirit never takes on bodily form, this suggests that the supernatural Being to which this expression refers is the second member of the Trinity (also compare Exod 3:14 with John 8:58). Therefore, the angel of the LORD was a temporary manifestation of the LORD Jesus Christ in a preincarnate form
"
=========================end quote


As for the scholarship agreeing with Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary - author Bob McCabe

Some examples:

Friday at 10:53 PM #19

...


Adam Clarke Commentary
Exodus 3 Verse 2

The angel of the Lord - Not a created angel certainly; for he is called יהוה Jehovah, Exodus 3:4, etc., and has the most expressive attributes of the Godhead applied to him, Exodus 3:14, etc. Yet he is an angel, מלאך malach, a messenger, in whom was the name of God, Exodus 23:21; and in whom dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead bodily, Colossians 2:9; and who, in all these primitive times, was the Messenger of the covenant, Malachi 3:1. And who was this but Jesus, the Leader, Redeemer, and Savior of mankind? See Clarke's note on Genesis 16:7.

=================

James Burton Coffman
Ex 3 Verse 2-3

"And the angel of Jehovah appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. And Moses said, I will turn aside now, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt."

"The angel of Jehovah ..." As the context proves, "The Angel of Jehovah is not a created angel but Jehovah himself in his act of self-revelation."[10] This is merely another name for God, of which there are many in the Bible. Although this verse does not indicate it, there is reason to believe that the Angel of Jehovah should be identified with our Lord Jesus Christ, the Second Person of the Godhead; he is also called the Angel of the Covenant.[11]


=================================
Jamieson Fausset Brown
Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible

Verse 2-3

the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire — It is common in Scripture to represent the elements and operations of nature, as winds, fires, earthquakes, pestilence, everything enlisted in executing the divine will, as the “angels” or messengers of God. But in such cases God Himself is considered as really, though invisibly, present. Here the preternatural fire may be primarily meant by the expression “angel of the Lord”; but it is clear that under this symbol, the Divine Being was present, whose name is given (Exodus 3:4, Exodus 3:6), and elsewhere called the angel of the covenant, Jehovah-Jesus.


=========================================

So then two opinions --

here is one -


Albert Barnes Commentary

Exodus 3
Ex 3:1-2 Now Moses was pasturing the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian; and he led the flock to the west side of the wilderness and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. 2 The angel of the Lord appeared to him in a blazing fire from the midst of a bush; and he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, yet the bush was not consumed.

vs 2
What Moses saw was the flame of fire in the bush; what he recognized therein was an intimation of the presence of God, who maketh a flame of fire His angel. Compare Psalm 104:4. The words which Moses heard were those of God Himself, as all ancient and most modern divines have held, manifested in the Person of the Son

=========== and here is another list of those who agree

Albert Barnes
James Burton Coffman
Adam Clarke Commentary
Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary Bob McCabe

R.C.Sproul
The Angel of the LORD
Verse 7 tells us “the angel of the Lord” found Hagar at the spring. This angel is no mere messenger of God, even though royal messengers in those days were treated with the same respect as the sender. When the angel of the Lord appears elsewhere in Scripture, people fall down in worship (see Judg. 6:22–24). After seeing the angel, Hagar addresses him as God (Gen. 16:13). This angel appeared mainly during the period recounted in Genesis and Judges, and, while the New Testament does not explicitly identify the angel with the Son of God, many in church history have identified this messenger as the pre-incarnate Christ.

 

[Charleeboy]

Hi mmksparbud, I decided to contact you cuz im an SDA but I am trying to search for myself what is truth. Is there any messaging app i can reach you with?

 

[mmksparbud]

Hi mmksparbud, I decided to contact you cuz im an SDA but I am trying to search for myself what is truth. Is there any messaging app i can reach you with?

Just PM me here.

 

[Truthfinder115]

Has anyone heard of Victor Bauhng who claims to be Michael the archangel.
Victor Bauhng claims to be
1. Michael the Archangel
2. The Antichrist who saves Yahweh from Jesus
3. The Second Witness of Revelation 11 (Tom Deckard is the First Witness)
4. The Son of Perdition

Victor Bauhng says he announced the
1. Second Coming of Jesus Christ
2. The Great Tribulation
3. The Coronavirus pandemic
4. Heaven on Earth
5. The rapture will never happen
6. The Prostitute and Babylon is the Church

Victor Bauhng was
In Men's Central Jail in Los Angeles County
In Rehab at Christian Fellowship
In Delano State Penitentiary
A teacher in Dammam University in Saudi Arabia
A loyal teacher of orphans in Kenya
An active member of scholars of Islamic religion
A green belt in muy thai kickboxing

The founder of the Seventh Day Adventists, prophetess Ellen White, said that Jesus Christ is one and the same with the Archangel Michael mentioned in the Bible. This is a belief that the SDA have in common with the Jehovah's Witnesses. Both sects came out of the Millerite movement in 19th century America.

How did Ellen White come to the conclusion that Jesus is the Archangel Michael? Although she claims to be a prophet, she mentions no visions on this subject.

In her five volume work Conflict of the Ages, "Michael" only occurs four times. One of those is in the Notes at the end and adds nothing new. The other three mentions are quotes from the Book of Daniel, one a straight quote. The other two add a tidbit of commentary.

<< The words of the angel, “I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God,” show that he holds a position of high honor in the heavenly courts. When he came with a message to Daniel, he said, “There is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael [Christ] your Prince.” Dan. 10:21. >>

This is from Ellen White, The Desire of Ages, Chapter 10: The Voice in the Wilderness
(Kindle Locatons 20960-20962)

In case you missed it, that's "but Michael [Christ] your Prince." EW inserts a one word commentary into a quote from Daniel, inserting "[Christ]" after "Michael." There isn't a word of justification for this extraordinary identification.

<< For three weeks Gabriel wrestled with the powers of darkness, seeking to counteract the influences at work on the mind of Cyrus; and before the contest closed, Christ Himself came to Gabriel's aid. “The prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days,” Gabriel declares; “but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.” Daniel 10:13. >>

--Ellen White, Prophets and Kings, Chapter 46: "The Prophets of God Helping Them"
(Kindle Locations 18185-18188)

Here Ellen White gives only six words of raw assertion preceding a quote from Daniel where Michael helps defeat the King of Persia.

I have checked other books by Ellen White and can find no mention of the Archangel Michael. In her defining work Conflict of the Ages, there are only seven words of commentary on Michael aside from quoting Daniel. We have only "[Christ]" inserted after "Michael" and "Christ Himself came to Gabriel's aid." This hardly explains why White adopts a position which is not spelled out in the Bible and which is completely at odds with all scholarship outside the Jehovah's Witnesses and those sects which follow Ellen White as a prophet.

Here is a question for Seventh Day Adventists: Am I missing something? Where did Ellen White explain or defend her position that Jesus is one and the same with the Archangel Michael? It looks like she picked up the idea from the Millerite movement and later simply assumed it to be true.

Who does she say "the man in linen" mentioned in Daniel is?
There are three entities mentioned in Daniel:

Gabriel
Michael
Man in linen

If Michael helps the man in linen, then who is the man in linen?

And if Gabriel listens to thevman in linen, who is the man in line

According to Ellen white, the prophetess?

 

[Truthfinder115]

Has anyone heard of Victor Bauhng claiming to be archangel Michael here

Victor Bauhng Michael Archangel

Has anyone heard of Victor Bauhng who claims to be Michael the archangel.
Victor Bauhng claims to be
1. Michael the Archangel
2. The Antichrist who saves Yahweh from Jesus
3. The Second Witness of Revelation 11 (Tom Deckard is the First Witness)
4. The Son of Perdition

Victor Bauhng says he announced the
1. Second Coming of Jesus Christ
2. The Great Tribulation
3. The Coronavirus pandemic
4. Heaven on Earth
5. The rapture will never happen
6. The Prostitute and Babylon is the Church

Victor Bauhng was
In Men's Central Jail in Los Angeles County
In Rehab at Christian Fellowship
In Delano State Penitentiary
A teacher in Dammam University in Saudi Arabia
A loyal teacher of orphans in Kenya
An active member of scholars of Islamic religion
A green belt in muy thai kickboxing

 

[mmksparbud]

Has anyone heard of Victor Bauhng claiming to be archangel Michael here

Victor Bauhng Michael Archangel

Sounds like someone that I want absolutely nothing to do with, nor read what they have to say!!

 

[Truthfinder115]

Sounds like someone that I want absolutely nothing to do with, nor read what they have to say!!

I ain't defending it but I hear he's the real deal. My friend knows him and swears he prophecied covid19 Jesus second coming as Michael the archangel or Victor Bauhng. Never prejudge unless you have first hand knowledge

 

[Truthfinder115]

See link to facebook

 

[mmksparbud]

I ain't defending it but I hear he's the real deal. My friend knows him and swears he prophecied covid19 Jesus second coming as Michael the archangel or Victor Bauhng. Never prejudge unless you have first hand knowledge

He claims to be Michael the archangel and you say he is the real deal? He is not anything that he says he is--he is a liar--he is not of God and it doesn't matter what he has "predicted" and it came true. He says he is the antichrist that saves Yahweh from Jesus???!!! What does not even mean?! Don't bother to tell me---I don't want to know. This is straight from the devil and I pray and sincerely hope you will run from this and not look back. I most certainly can prejudge=--- I have the bible---

1Jn_4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Isa_8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Mar 13:21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
Mar 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
Mar 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

 

[BobRyan]

Has anyone heard of Victor Bauhng who claims to be Michael the archangel.
Victor Bauhng claims to be
1. Michael the Archangel
2. The Antichrist who saves Yahweh from Jesus
3. The Second Witness of Revelation 11 (Tom Deckard is the First Witness)
4. The Son of Perdition

Victor Bauhng says he announced the
1. Second Coming of Jesus Christ
2. The Great Tribulation
3. The Coronavirus pandemic
4. Heaven on Earth
5. The rapture will never happen
6. The Prostitute and Babylon is the Church

Victor Bauhng was
In Men's Central Jail in Los Angeles County
In Rehab at Christian Fellowship
In Delano State Penitentiary
A teacher in Dammam University in Saudi Arabia
A loyal teacher of orphans in Kenya
An active member of scholars of Islamic religion
A green belt in muy thai kickboxing

Has anyone heard of Victor Bauhng claiming to be archangel Michael here

Victor Bauhng Michael Archangel

Ok .. so that one needs to be its own thread so it can be given the full attention it needs.

 

[BobRyan]

Hi mmksparbud, I decided to contact you cuz im an SDA but I am trying to search for myself what is truth. Is there any messaging app i can reach you with?

And there is an SDA Forum section of this CF board that is pretty good.

 

[miknik5]

Has anyone heard of Victor Bauhng who claims to be Michael the archangel.
Victor Bauhng claims to be
1. Michael the Archangel
2. The Antichrist who saves Yahweh from Jesus
3. The Second Witness of Revelation 11 (Tom Deckard is the First Witness)
4. The Son of Perdition

Victor Bauhng says he announced the
1. Second Coming of Jesus Christ
2. The Great Tribulation
3. The Coronavirus pandemic
4. Heaven on Earth
5. The rapture will never happen
6. The Prostitute and Babylon is the Church

Victor Bauhng was
In Men's Central Jail in Los Angeles County
In Rehab at Christian Fellowship
In Delano State Penitentiary
A teacher in Dammam University in Saudi Arabia
A loyal teacher of orphans in Kenya
An active member of scholars of Islamic religion
A green belt in muy thai kickboxing

Just to be clear, in your post #104, since you included my response to a past poster in which the two of us were having a conversation, I do NOT believe that Jesus is the archangel...in fact, I know he isn´t...
Further, there are NO prophets/prophetesses today.
Only WITNESSES who hold to the TESTIMONY of JESUS...

 

[Tim Ray]

Here is a question for Seventh Day Adventists: Am I missing something? Where did Ellen White explain or defend her position that Jesus is one and the same with the Archangel Michael? It looks like she picked up the idea from the Millerite movement and later simply assumed it to be true.

 

[Tim Ray]

I won't defend Mrs. White here, but rather share some Biblical insights you might wish to consider.

Michael the Archangel
According to John 1 and other Bible passages, Jesus is a God who lived with the Father before the world was created. Most Christians have no problem with the idea that a member of deity was made into the likeness of a human form and we call Him, "Jesus." "he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death — even death on a cross!" (Philippians 2:7-8) Prior to His arrival on Earth, the Bible teaches that Jesus lived in the form or likeness of an angel. To some people, the idea that Jesus is the Michael the Archangel seems utterly impossible.

Consider the irony: It is acceptable to many people that Jesus lived as an unremarkable man when on Earth (Isaiah 53:2) but somehow it is blasphemey that he lived as the archangel before coming to Earth! Somehow, the form of a man is a higher position that the form of an angel. Some people are worried that if Jesus lived in the form of an angel, this would make him a created being, less than deity — but living in the form of man does not incur the same limitations. Worse, some religious groups do not accept that Jesus is the God of the Old Testament. The Bible teaches that Jesus is "the Word," He speaks for the Father and 99% of the references in the Old Testament pertain to Jesus precisely because one God is speaking for another God. There is ample proof in the Bible that the person known as “Michael, the Archangel” can be identified as Jesus without detracting anything from His divinity. Let's examine this interesting puzzle point by point.

POINT ONE: When Jesus was born in human flesh through the virgin, Mary, the prophetic utterances of the Holy Spirit gave Him many appropriate names. A few of these are:
Immanuel (God is with us) – Matthew 1:23
Jesus (Savior) – Matthew 1:21
Lamb of God – John 1:29
Christ (Messiah, anointed One or King) – John 1:41

The Bible also reveals that the devil's name was “Lucifer” before he rebelled against God. After being thrown out of Heaven, Lucifer acquired a new name called “Satan.” (Isaiah 14:12 and Revelation 12:9) Since we know Jesus existed throughout the ages of eternity long before coming as a babe to Bethlehem, it is logical to assume that He, too, had some Heavenly name before His earthly experience.

POINT TWO: In Biblical times, names were regarded as profoundly important. Nearly every name had a meaning. A few examples will illustrate this point:
El (these letters in a name pertained to God)
Elijah (my God is Jehovah)
Daniel (judgment of God)
Gabriel (man of God)
Michael (one who is like God)

Unless our intention is to be blasphemous, we must recognize that no one is like God – except God Himself. The Bible is clear that it was Lucifer's pride which prompted him to say, “I will be like the Most High.” (Isaiah 14:13-14) Who was he referring to? By now I am sure that the devil understands that no created being – even a dazzling angel like Lucifer – can ever be equal to his Creator.

POINT THREE: The prefix “arch” comes from a Greek word meaning “ruler” or one who rules over, such as in the word “monarch.” We know that our Heavenly Father, as God, rules and reigns over all faithful believers without being a human Himself. By the same token, Jesus can assume the position of ruler over all the angels without being an angel (created being) Himself.

So, by saying that Jesus is Michael, the Archangel, the Bible is simply calling Him the Supreme Commander of the angelic host, just as our United States President is called the Commander-in-Chief of all the armed forces. This does not mean that the President is a soldier, wearing a uniform. He is above every foot soldier, sailor, airman or marine. He outranks them and rules them, according to the United States Constitution.

To demonstrate this further, consider Genesis 1:28. Here we read that in the beginning God gave man “dominion over” all creatures of the animal kingdom, whether fish, fowl, or animal. “Dominion” means lordship or authority to rule. Thus God placed man in charge of His creation, dominating the animals as a lord rules his subjects. If man can rule the animal kingdom without being an animal himself, no one should insist that Christ cannot be the archangel without being a created angel Himself. Therefore, it should not surprise us that according to the Bible, Jesus Christ has the honor of being “Commander-in-Chief” and has “dominion” over all the angelic forces of Heaven. Serving in this capacity does not detract from His deity or make Him in any way a created being.

POINT FOUR: The Old Testament contains a fascinating story of a human encounter with the Heavenly Commander-in-Chief. “Now when Joshua was near Jericho, he looked up and saw a man standing in front of him with a drawn sword in his hand. Joshua went up to him and asked, ‘Are you for us or for our enemies?‘ ‘Neither,’ he replied, ‘but as commander of the army of the LORD I have now come.’ Then Joshua fell face down to the ground in reverence, and asked him, ‘What message does my Lord have for his servant?’ The commander of the Lord's army replied, ‘Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy.’ And Joshua did so.” (Joshua 5:13-15)

On this occasion, Joshua is being visited by the Lord Jesus Christ in his pre-incarnate form. Throughout the Old Testament, the Bible mentions the Lord appearing to individuals, such as Abraham (Genesis 18:1-33) and Jacob (Genesis 32:24-30). On this particular occasion with Joshua, verse 13 says that Joshua looked up and saw a “man standing in front of him with a drawn sword.” When Joshua asks who he is, Joshua is told that he is the “Commander of the Lord's army.” The Living Bible says “I am Commander-in-Chief of the Lord's army.” This is just another way of saying He is the “Arch”angel, or ruler of the angel hosts. Even though He was identified as the Archangel, we know He was no mere angel for two reasons.

First, Joshua fell down and worshiped him, and the Being did not stop him from doing so. If Joshua had been worshiping an angel, he would have been immediately reprimanded. In both Revelation 19:10 and Revelation 22:8 and 9, John was told to stop worshiping the angel and told, “Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God!” Secondly, this divine Being not only accepts worship from Joshua, but also tells him to take off his shoes, for the place he was standing was holy. Moses received the same command when He met the Lord at the burning bush. (Exodus 3:1-6) It become clear that the leader of the Heavenly hosts is no mere angel, but our Lord, Jesus Christ, Himself.

POINT FIVE: There are other Scriptures that mention the name of Michael, revealing that He is a very special Person. These texts suggest that He must be, in fact, a heavenly Being of royal lineage. For instance, God sent the angel, Gabriel, to give a special message to the prophet Daniel (Daniel 8:16 and 9:21). This angel messenger told Daniel that “Michael” is “the great prince who protects your people.” A prince is the son of a king, of course, and Jesus is the Son of God, the King of Heaven. Gabriel, in the very same book calls the Messiah, “the Prince.” (Daniel 9:25).

Now please note what we've learned from the pen of the same inspired writer:

1. Messiah = the Prince
2. Michael = the great prince
3. If this is true, and two things equal to the same thing are equal to each other, this means the Messiah and Michael are one and the same Person, Jesus Christ.

POINT SIX: God's Word gives inspired insight into Lucifer's terrible rebellion against the government of God: “And there was war in heaven. Michael and His angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down — that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.” (Revelation 12:7-9)

Fortunately, this verse identifies “the dragon” as “that old serpent, called the devil, and Satan.” This leaves no question about the adversary's identity. It is interesting to note that in each of the four instances where the name Michael is used in Scripture, there is a conflict between Michael and Satan going on – age-old adversaries since the beginning of time.

POINT SEVEN: The only Bible verse frequently quoted by those who deny that Jesus is Michael, the Archangel, is Jude 1:9, which says, “But even the archangel Michael, when He was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, ‘The Lord rebuke you!’”

Some people believe this verse proves Jesus and Michael are not the same entity because Michael, in this text, rebukes the devil Himself, by saying, “The Lord rebuke you!” People reason that the Archangel cannot be the Lord for He is calling someone else, “the Lord.” It is always important to let the Bible be its own interpreter. Jude 1:9 becomes much clearer when compared with Zechariah 3:2, where Jesus again is confronting Satan. Zechariah 3:2 says: “The LORD said to Satan, ‘The LORD rebuke you, Satan!’ ” This verse is a perfect parallel to Jude 1:9 – almost a carbon copy – except the names are changed. In one text He is called Michael and in the other He is called the Lord. In both cases, one could argue that Michael/Lord was calling on His Heavenly Father to rebuke the devil. On both occasions, Christ knew it was pointless to argue with Lucifer’s closed mind – Lucifer had made his mind up long ago. Jesus knew that a day is coming, when as Lord and Judge of all the universe, He will rebuke Satan with finality, condemning him to the lake of fire.

Another possible interpretation of these two texts is to realize that Christ was simply speaking of Himself when He said, “The Lord rebuke you,” meaning, “I rebuke you.” Jesus often referred to Himself in the third person, saying things like: “When the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the Earth?” (Luke 18:8) Should we conclude that Jesus is not the Son of God simply because in John 3:16 He referred to Himself in the third person (“Whosoever believeth in Him”) rather than saying “in me?”

In reference to Moses’ death, the Bible states that the Lord, Himself, buried His faithful servant, but did not reveal to men where Moses’ grave was. (Deuteronomy 34:5-6) Jude reveals that Moses’ dead body was the subject of dispute between Christ and Satan. When the Prince of Life approached the lonely grave, Satan was alarmed. Satan claimed all who were in the grave as his captives and felt threatened by this invasion into “his territory.” The accuser of the brethren (Revelation 12:10) boasted that even Moses, who had been a faithful servant of God, had sinned and become his prisoner. Christ refused to argue with Satan, but then and there, performed His work of breaking the devil's power and bringing the dead to life. The New Testament indicates that Moses appeared with Elijah on the Mount of Transfiguration, so it is safe to conclude that the Lord triumphed in the contest with the devil and raised Moses from his grave.

How do we know it was Christ, Himself, and not a mere angel that contended with Satan over the resurrection of Moses' body? Angels, like ourselves, are created beings and have no power to create life. Satan and his angel followers are powerful, supernatural beings, but they are “fallen” and they are created beings. They may make it look like dead people are talking to mediums (i.e., seances), but they cannot create life. Although God empowered his faithful servants to resuscitate a dead person on a few occasions, those miracles were not resurrections to a glorious, immortal life. Miracles though they were, those people who were raised, later died again. They were not taken “bodily” to Heaven, as Moses and Elijah were. Only Christ, the Life-giver, can raise a dead person to eternal life. He is our only hope – not some angel. Keeping this all in mind, it is safe to conclude that the One who contended with Satan over Moses' body was a Heavenly Being far more powerful than any angel.

POINT EIGHT: Jesus encouraged us to: “Search the Scriptures.” (John 5:39) It is very important to compare texts throughout the different books of the Bible, for there is no single writer found in the Old or New Testament who had all of God's truth revealed to him. Each inspired writer was given a glimpse of the heavenly vision. If our hearts “thirst” after truth, we must carefully search with all our hearts and read all that the Bible says about any given subject.

The apostles, John and Paul, give a good example of how two texts can describe the same event, but in slightly different ways. Paul says dead believers are resurrected at the voice of the Archangel. “For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.” (1 Thessalonians 4:16) John records that the Lord Jesus said the dead righteous would be resurrected at the sound of His own voice. “I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. . . . And He has given Him authority to judge because He is the Son of Man. Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice and come out – those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.” (John 5:25-29) These parallel passages are speaking of the same event. Paul, in Thessalonians, calls it “the voice of the Archangel” and John, in His gospel, calls it “the voice of the Son of God.”When Christ returns to call His faithful ones to life, every angel in heaven will come with Him: “The Son of Man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him.” (Matthew 25:31) He is their Commander! There is no mystery here – Jesus, the Life-giver, is also, Michael, the Archangel.

*** For further study, please read the following Scripture references:

1. Genesis 16 (Please note verses 7, 9, 11, and especially verse 13.)
2. Genesis 22 (Please note verse 15 and remember that only God can “swear by Himself.”)
3. Exodus 3 (Be sure to notice verse 2 and then verse 6.)
4. Numbers 22:21-35 (Notice that the “angel” did not stop Balam from bowing down to Him. See also Revelation 19:10 and Revelation 22:8, 9)
5. Judges 2 (Notice that the angel of the Lord says: “Yet you have disobeyed me.”)
6. Judges 6:20-23 (Notice that Gideon calls the angel of the Lord ,“Sovereign Lord,” and the “angel”assures Gideon he will not die, in verse 23.)
7. Zechariah 3 (Notice verse 4 – only Jesus can take away sin.)

(Jesus the Alpha and The Omega, by Larry Wilson, Chapter 2)

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I won't defend Mrs. White here, but rather share some Biblical insights you might wish to consider....

Your point three is based on a word study fallacy.

Concerning Zech 3, it is the angel of the Lord speaking.

Zechariah 3 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
The High Priest
3 The angel showed me Joshua the high priest, standing in front of the angel of the Lord and Satan was standing by Joshua’s right side. Satan was there to accuse Joshua of doing wrong. 2 Then the angel of the Lord said, “The Lord says that you are wrong, and he will continue to correct you! The Lord has chosen Jerusalem to be his special city. He saved that city—it was like a burning stick pulled from the fire.”

Zechariah 3 King James Version (KJV)
3 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.

2 And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.

3 Joshua was wearing a dirty robe as he stood in front of the angel. 4 Then the angel said to the other angels standing near him, “Take those dirty clothes off Joshua.” Then the angel spoke to Joshua. He said, “Now, I have taken away your guilt, and I am giving you a new change of clothes.”

5 Then I said, “Put a clean turban on his head.” So they put the clean turban on him and also put clean clothes on him while the Lord’s angel stood there. 6 Then the Lord’s angel said this to Joshua:

7 This is what the Lord All-Powerful said:
“Live the way I tell you,
and do everything I say.
And you will be in charge of my Temple.
You will take care of its courtyard.
You will be free to go anywhere in my Temple,
just as these angels standing here.
8 Listen, Joshua, you who are the high priest,
and listen, you fellow priests seated before him.
You are all examples to show what will happen when I bring my special servant.
He is called, the Branch.
9 Look, I put a special stone in front of Joshua.
There are seven sides on that stone.
I will carve a special message on it.
This will show that in one day, I will remove the guilt from this land.”

10 The Lord All-Powerful says,
“At that time people will sit and talk
with their friends and neighbors.
They will invite each other to sit
under the fig trees and grapevines.”

If Zech 3:2 is God speaking, why did he not simply say, "I rebuke you".

From my reading of the Hebrew, which was my first language. Angel of the Lord does fit the verse in question because it makes no sense that God would speak about himself in the third person.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Let Ellen White speak for herself,

"In Jude verse 9 we read: "Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke
thee." Now imagine the argument "You may read the Old Testament from Genesis to Malachi and you will not find any evidence to validate this supposed conversation between Michael and Satan."
Jude in no way contradicts the Old Testament, yet this contention over the body of Moses is never even mentioned in the Bible previous to this text. Jude also speaks of Enoch prophesying about the Lord coming "with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon all..." [verses 14-16]. We have no record of Enoch saying any such thing in the writings of Moses, yet we believe Jude."
Ellen G. White® Estate: Did Ellen White Contradict the Bible over 50 times?

"
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. Jude 9.

Satan contended earnestly for the body of Moses. Again he sought to enter into controversy with Christ in regard to the injustice of God's law, and with deceiving power reiterated his false statements about not being fairly treated. His accusations were such that Christ did not bring against him the record of the cruel work he had done in heaven by deceptive misrepresentation, the falsehoods he had told in Eden that led to Adam's transgression, and the stirring up of the worst passions of the hosts of Israel to incite them to murmur and rebel until Moses lost command of himself.... Christ did not retaliate in answer to Satan. He brought no railing accusation against him, but raised Moses from the dead and took him to heaven.

Here for the first time the power of Christ was exercised to break the power of Satan and give life to the dead. Here began His work of making alive that which was dead. Thus He testified that He was indeed the Resurrection and the Life, that He had power to ransom those whom Satan had made his captives, that although people die they will live again. The question had been asked, “If a man die, shall he live again?” (Job 14:14). The question was now answered.

This act was a great victory over the powers of darkness."
Ellen G. White Estate: Daily Devotional - Christ Triumphant

"
Christ is the One through whom God has at all times revealed Himself to man. “But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by Him.” 1 Corinthians 8:6. “This is he [Moses], that was in the church in the wilderness with the Angel which spake to him in the Mount Sinai, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us.” Acts 7:38. This Angel was the Angel of God's presence (Isaiah 63:9), the Angel in whom was the name of the great Jehovah (Exodus 23:20-23). The expression can refer to no other than the Son of God. PP 761.4

Again: Christ is called the Word of God. John 1:1-3. He is so called because God gave His revelations to man in all ages through Christ. It was His Spirit that inspired the prophets. 1 Peter 1:10, 11. He was revealed to them as the Angel of Jehovah, the Captain of the Lord's host, Michael the Archangel. PP 761.5

Note 8. Page 603. The question has been raised, and is now much agitate"
Patriarchs and Prophets

"They should not defy ministers 163 of other denominations, and seek to provoke a debate. They should not stand in a position like that of Goliath when he defied the armies of Israel. Israel did not defy Goliath but Goliath made his proud boasts against God and His people. The defying, the boasting, and the railing must come from the opposers of truth, who act the Goliath. But none of this spirit should be seen in those whom God has sent forth to proclaim the last message of warning to a doomed world. . . . If they, like David, are brought into a position where God's cause really calls for them to meet a defier of Israel, and if they go forth in the strength of God, relying wholly upon Him, He will carry them through, and cause His truth to triumph gloriously. Christ has given us an example. "Yet Michael the Archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee."--Testimonies, vol. 3, pp. 218-220. (1872) Controversial Spirit Lays Weak Foundation.--The spirit of debate, of controversy, is a device of Satan to stir up combativeness, and thus eclipse the truth as it is in Jesus."
https://media1.whiteestate.org/legacy/books/ev/evangelism.pdf

I googled Jesus Michael Archangel site:whiteestate.org


The Great Controversy


http://drc.whiteestate.org/files/6189.pdf

I did not have time to read her quotes. Just post them for information.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

In short, it is believed that the Son of God is the Angel of the Lord by many.
Michael is not the Angel of the Lord in the OT.
Therefore Jesus is not Michael.

Does this make sense? or am I overlooking something?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

1. We have now to notice, agreeably to the statements of Scripture, how the opposing powers, or the devil himself, contends with the human race, inciting and instigating men to sin. And in the first place, in the book of Genesis, the serpent is described as having seduced Eve; regarding whom, in the work entitled The Ascension of Moses (a little treatise, of which the Apostle Jude makes mention in his Epistle), the archangel Michael, when disputing with the devil regarding the body of Moses, says that the serpent, being inspired by the devil, was the cause of Adam and Eve's transgression. This also is made a subject of inquiry by some, viz.,
CHURCH FATHERS: De Principiis, Book III (Origen)

 

[mmksparbud]

In short, it is believed that the Son of God is the Angel of the Lord by many.
Michael is not the Angel of the Lord in the OT.
Therefore Jesus is not Michael.

Does this make sense? or am I overlooking something?

MY! My! Thank you! I had forgotten those passages. Clearly---Michael was Jesus.
I don't know what you are missing. I've studied this subject for years, the site you quoted goes on to validate all her writings. Or didn't you know that? I had never used EGW to validate the concept that Michael and Jesus were one---I had only used the bible, read every instance in the bible---regarding the Captain of the Host, Angel of the Lord, each instance man bowed to this being and was never contradicted for doing so and in the same passage also referred to that being as God. Never happened with any other angel, always the admonition to not worship the angel--always, except with Michael, the Angel of the Lord, or the Captain of the Hosts. Just by the bible, Michael was another title for Jesus. And Jesus, Himself, referred to Himself as the I Am, which is what God told Moses to tell the Israelites, was His name. But I had not remembered her passages about this---thanks again. It has deepened my respect for her writings.

 

[The Liturgist]

The Bible also reveals that the devil's name was “Lucifer” before he rebelled against God.

This is an interesting subject, and while I disagree with you, I did not want to derail this thread explaining why, so I wrote a long reply to your post in a new thread here:

Lucifer is probably not the proper name for Satan