Jesus is the Archangel Michael??

[Dale]

The founder of the Seventh Day Adventists, prophetess Ellen White, said that Jesus Christ is one and the same with the Archangel Michael mentioned in the Bible. This is a belief that the SDA have in common with the Jehovah's Witnesses. Both sects came out of the Millerite movement in 19th century America.

How did Ellen White come to the conclusion that Jesus is the Archangel Michael? Although she claims to be a prophet, she mentions no visions on this subject.

In her five volume work Conflict of the Ages, "Michael" only occurs four times. One of those is in the Notes at the end and adds nothing new. The other three mentions are quotes from the Book of Daniel, one a straight quote. The other two add a tidbit of commentary.

<< The words of the angel, “I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God,” show that he holds a position of high honor in the heavenly courts. When he came with a message to Daniel, he said, “There is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael [Christ] your Prince.” Dan. 10:21. >>

This is from Ellen White, The Desire of Ages, Chapter 10: The Voice in the Wilderness
(Kindle Locatons 20960-20962)

In case you missed it, that's "but Michael [Christ] your Prince." EW inserts a one word commentary into a quote from Daniel, inserting "[Christ]" after "Michael." There isn't a word of justification for this extraordinary identification.

<< For three weeks Gabriel wrestled with the powers of darkness, seeking to counteract the influences at work on the mind of Cyrus; and before the contest closed, Christ Himself came to Gabriel's aid. “The prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days,” Gabriel declares; “but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.” Daniel 10:13. >>

--Ellen White, Prophets and Kings, Chapter 46: "The Prophets of God Helping Them"
(Kindle Locations 18185-18188)

Here Ellen White gives only six words of raw assertion preceding a quote from Daniel where Michael helps defeat the King of Persia.

I have checked other books by Ellen White and can find no mention of the Archangel Michael. In her defining work Conflict of the Ages, there are only seven words of commentary on Michael aside from quoting Daniel. We have only "[Christ]" inserted after "Michael" and "Christ Himself came to Gabriel's aid." This hardly explains why White adopts a position which is not spelled out in the Bible and which is completely at odds with all scholarship outside the Jehovah's Witnesses and those sects which follow Ellen White as a prophet.

Here is a question for Seventh Day Adventists: Am I missing something? Where did Ellen White explain or defend her position that Jesus is one and the same with the Archangel Michael? It looks like she picked up the idea from the Millerite movement and later simply assumed it to be true.

 

[I'm_Sorry]

Which version of the bible do the SDA use?

JW rely on their own and have changed John 1:1

 

[RisenInJesus]

The founder of the Seventh Day Adventists, prophetess Ellen White, said that Jesus Christ is one and the same with the Archangel Michael mentioned in the Bible. This is a belief that the SDA have in common with the Jehovah's Witnesses. Both sects came out of the Millerite movement in 19th century America.

How did Ellen White come to the conclusion that Jesus is the Archangel Michael? Although she claims to be a prophet, she mentions no visions on this subject.

In her five volume work Conflict of the Ages, "Michael" only occurs four times. One of those is in the Notes at the end and adds nothing new. The other three mentions are quotes from the Book of Daniel, one a straight quote. The other two add a tidbit of commentary.

<< The words of the angel, “I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God,” show that he holds a position of high honor in the heavenly courts. When he came with a message to Daniel, he said, “There is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael [Christ] your Prince.” Dan. 10:21. >>

This is from Ellen White, The Desire of Ages, Chapter 10: The Voice in the Wilderness
(Kindle Locatons 20960-20962)

In case you missed it, that's "but Michael [Christ] your Prince." EW inserts a one word commentary into a quote from Daniel, inserting "[Christ]" after "Michael." There isn't a word of justification for this extraordinary identification.

<< For three weeks Gabriel wrestled with the powers of darkness, seeking to counteract the influences at work on the mind of Cyrus; and before the contest closed, Christ Himself came to Gabriel's aid. “The prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days,” Gabriel declares; “but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.” Daniel 10:13. >>

--Ellen White, Prophets and Kings, Chapter 46: "The Prophets of God Helping Them"
(Kindle Locations 18185-18188)

Here Ellen White gives only six words of raw assertion preceding a quote from Daniel where Michael helps defeat the King of Persia.

I have checked other books by Ellen White and can find no mention of the Archangel Michael. In her defining work Conflict of the Ages, there are only seven words of commentary on Michael aside from quoting Daniel. We have only "[Christ]" inserted after "Michael" and "Christ Himself came to Gabriel's aid." This hardly explains why White adopts a position which is not spelled out in the Bible and which is completely at odds with all scholarship outside the Jehovah's Witnesses and those sects which follow Ellen White as a prophet.

Here is a question for Seventh Day Adventists: Am I missing something? Where did Ellen White explain or defend her position that Jesus is one and the same with the Archangel Michael? It looks like she picked up the idea from the Millerite movement and later simply assumed it to be true.

I didn't realize that SDA had this same doctrine that the JW's have of Christ being Michael the Archangel.

 

[-Luca]

Which version of the bible do the SDA use?

JW rely on their own and have changed John 1:1

Hey Craig, I have some family that are strict Adventists and they do not believe Jesus is Michael the Archangel and they also only read the KJV.

:]

 

[I'm_Sorry]

Hey Craig, I have some family that are strict Adventists and they do not believe Jesus is Michael the Archangel and they also only read the KJV.

:]

Hi Brother

I have SDA family too.

Thanks for letting me know.

 

[miknik5]

The founder of the Seventh Day Adventists, prophetess Ellen White, said that Jesus Christ is one and the same with the Archangel Michael mentioned in the Bible. This is a belief that the SDA have in common with the Jehovah's Witnesses. Both sects came out of the Millerite movement in 19th century America.

How did Ellen White come to the conclusion that Jesus is the Archangel Michael? Although she claims to be a prophet, she mentions no visions on this subject.

In her five volume work Conflict of the Ages, "Michael" only occurs four times. One of those is in the Notes at the end and adds nothing new. The other three mentions are quotes from the Book of Daniel, one a straight quote. The other two add a tidbit of commentary.

<< The words of the angel, “I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God,” show that he holds a position of high honor in the heavenly courts. When he came with a message to Daniel, he said, “There is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael [Christ] your Prince.” Dan. 10:21. >>

This is from Ellen White, The Desire of Ages, Chapter 10: The Voice in the Wilderness
(Kindle Locatons 20960-20962)

In case you missed it, that's "but Michael [Christ] your Prince." EW inserts a one word commentary into a quote from Daniel, inserting "[Christ]" after "Michael." There isn't a word of justification for this extraordinary identification.

<< For three weeks Gabriel wrestled with the powers of darkness, seeking to counteract the influences at work on the mind of Cyrus; and before the contest closed, Christ Himself came to Gabriel's aid. “The prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days,” Gabriel declares; “but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.” Daniel 10:13. >>

--Ellen White, Prophets and Kings, Chapter 46: "The Prophets of God Helping Them"
(Kindle Locations 18185-18188)

Here Ellen White gives only six words of raw assertion preceding a quote from Daniel where Michael helps defeat the King of Persia.

I have checked other books by Ellen White and can find no mention of the Archangel Michael. In her defining work Conflict of the Ages, there are only seven words of commentary on Michael aside from quoting Daniel. We have only "[Christ]" inserted after "Michael" and "Christ Himself came to Gabriel's aid." This hardly explains why White adopts a position which is not spelled out in the Bible and which is completely at odds with all scholarship outside the Jehovah's Witnesses and those sects which follow Ellen White as a prophet.

Here is a question for Seventh Day Adventists: Am I missing something? Where did Ellen White explain or defend her position that Jesus is one and the same with the Archangel Michael? It looks like she picked up the idea from the Millerite movement and later simply assumed it to be true.

Who does she say "the man in linen" mentioned in Daniel is?
There are three entities mentioned in Daniel:

Gabriel
Michael
Man in linen

If Michael helps the man in linen, then who is the man in linen?

And if Gabriel listens to thevman in linen, who is the man in line

According to Ellen white, the prophetess?

 

[miknik5]

And who gave her that title?

Herself?

 

[miknik5]

Daniel 10

Can we take a look at Daniel 10 to see who is really talking and who this man in linen is really talking to

when the man in linen says I was detained 21 days and there was none who was with me/to help me except Michael, the prince of your people...HE (the man in linen) was talking to Daniel

This woman Ellen white contradicts the plain reading of Daniel 10

JPS

In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia a word was revealed unto Daniel, whose name was called Belteshazzar; and the word was true, even a great warfare; and he gave heed to the word, and had understanding of the vision. 2In those days I Daniel was mourning three whole weeks. 3I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled. 4And in the four and twentieth day of the first month, as I was by the side of the great river, which is Tigris,

5I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz; 6his body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as torches of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to burnished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.

7And I Daniel alone saw the vision; for the men that were with me saw not the vision; howbeit a great trembling fell upon them, and they fled to hide themselves. 8So that I was left alone, and saw this great vision, and there remained no strength in me; for my comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength.

9Yet heard I the voice of his words; and when I heard the voice of his words, then was I fallen into a deep sleep on my face, with my face toward the ground. 10And, behold, a hand touched me, which set me tottering upon my knees and upon the palms of my hands. 11And he said unto me: ‘O Daniel, thou man greatly beloved, give heed unto the words that I speak unto thee, and stand upright; for now am I sent unto thee’; and when he had spoken this word unto me, I stood trembling. 12Then said he unto me: ‘Fear not, Daniel; for from the first day that thou didst set thy heart to understand, and to humble thyself before thy God, thy words were heard; and I am come because of thy words. 13But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days; but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I was left over there beside the kings of Persia. 14Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the end of days; for there is yet a vision for the days.’

15And when he had spoken unto me according to these words, I set my face toward the ground, and was dumb. 16And, behold, one like the similitude of the sons of men touched my lips; then I opened my mouth, and spoke and said unto him that stood before me: ‘O my lord, by reason of the vision my pains are come upon me, and I retain no strength. 17For how can this servant of my lord talk with this my lord? for as for me, straightway there remained no strength in me, neither was there breath left in me.’ 18Then there touched me again one like the appearance of a man, and he strengthened me.19And he said: ‘O man greatly beloved, fear not! peace be unto thee, be strong, yea, be strong.’ And when he had spoken unto me, I was strengthened, and said: ‘Let my lord speak; for thou hast strengthened me.’ 20Then said he: Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia; and when I go forth, lo, the prince of Greece shall come. 21Howbeit I will declare unto thee that which is inscribed in the writing of truth; and there is none that holdeth with me against these, except Michael your prince.

 

[Albion]

I didn't realize that SDA had this same doctrine that the JW's have of Christ being Michael the Archangel.

I kinda think you are mistaken about this.

 

[RisenInJesus]

I kinda think you are mistaken about this.

Maybe I am mistaken. I haven't actually looked into this myself, but was simply responding to the assertion of the OP.

 

[Albion]

That's right. It might have been better for me to have addressed the author of the OP instead.

 

[Dale]

I kinda think you are mistaken about this.

That's right. It might have been better for me to have addressed the author of the OP instead.

Albion questions whether the JW's believe that Jesus is Michael.



Who Is Michael the Archangel?


"Since God’s Word nowhere indicates that there are two armies of faithful angels in heaven—one headed by Michael and one headed by Jesus—it is logical to conclude that Michael is none other than Jesus Christ in his heavenly role."


I think this is jumping to conclusions, although it is a more coherent argument than the raw assertions of Ellen White.



Link:
Who Is Michael the Archangel? Is Jesus? | Bible Teach

 

[miknik5]

Albion questions whether the JW's believe that Jesus is Michael.



Who Is Michael the Archangel?


"Since God’s Word nowhere indicates that there are two armies of faithful angels in heaven—one headed by Michael and one headed by Jesus—it is logical to conclude that Michael is none other than Jesus Christ in his heavenly role."


I think this is jumping to conclusions, although it is a more coherent argument than the raw assertions of Ellen White.



Link:
Who Is Michael the Archangel? Is Jesus? | Bible Teach

Then who is the "man in linen?"

 

[Dale]

Daniel 10

Can we take a look at Daniel 10 to see who is really talking and who this man in linen is really talking to

when the man in linen says I was detained 21 days and there was none who was with me/to help me except Michael, the prince of your people...HE (the man in linen) was talking to Daniel

This woman Ellen white contradicts the plain reading of Daniel 10

JPS

In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia a word was revealed unto Daniel, whose name was called Belteshazzar; and the word was true, even a great warfare; and he gave heed to the word, and had understanding of the vision. 2In those days I Daniel was mourning three whole weeks. 3I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled. 4And in the four and twentieth day of the first month, as I was by the side of the great river, which is Tigris,

5I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz; 6his body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as torches of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to burnished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.

7And I Daniel alone saw the vision; for the men that were with me saw not the vision; howbeit a great trembling fell upon them, and they fled to hide themselves. 8So that I was left alone, and saw this great vision, and there remained no strength in me; for my comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength.

9Yet heard I the voice of his words; and when I heard the voice of his words, then was I fallen into a deep sleep on my face, with my face toward the ground. 10And, behold, a hand touched me, which set me tottering upon my knees and upon the palms of my hands. 11And he said unto me: ‘O Daniel, thou man greatly beloved, give heed unto the words that I speak unto thee, and stand upright; for now am I sent unto thee’; and when he had spoken this word unto me, I stood trembling. 12Then said he unto me: ‘Fear not, Daniel; for from the first day that thou didst set thy heart to understand, and to humble thyself before thy God, thy words were heard; and I am come because of thy words. 13But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days; but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I was left over there beside the kings of Persia. 14Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the end of days; for there is yet a vision for the days.’

15And when he had spoken unto me according to these words, I set my face toward the ground, and was dumb. 16And, behold, one like the similitude of the sons of men touched my lips; then I opened my mouth, and spoke and said unto him that stood before me: ‘O my lord, by reason of the vision my pains are come upon me, and I retain no strength. 17For how can this servant of my lord talk with this my lord? for as for me, straightway there remained no strength in me, neither was there breath left in me.’ 18Then there touched me again one like the appearance of a man, and he strengthened me.19And he said: ‘O man greatly beloved, fear not! peace be unto thee, be strong, yea, be strong.’ And when he had spoken unto me, I was strengthened, and said: ‘Let my lord speak; for thou hast strengthened me.’ 20Then said he: Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia; and when I go forth, lo, the prince of Greece shall come. 21Howbeit I will declare unto thee that which is inscribed in the writing of truth; and there is none that holdeth with me against these, except Michael your prince.

Thanks for your contribution here.
Who is the Man in Linen? You ask a good question.
As far as I can tell, Ellen White never quoted this passage.

 

[Albion]

Albion questions whether the JW's believe that Jesus is Michael.

No, Albion questions whether or not it is correct to say that the SDA's share the JW belief with regard to this matter. I don't think they do.

In addition, this is a 'Christians Only' forum and, as I understand it, a discussion over the nature of Jesus that involves non-Nicene theories is not in order.

 

[miknik5]

Thanks for your contribution here.
Who is the Man in Linen? You ask a good question.
As far as I can tell, Ellen White never quoted this passage.

Please look at the op

She certainly did

She just never mentions the man in linen speaking to Daniel

 

[miknik5]

The founder of the Seventh Day Adventists, prophetess Ellen White, said that Jesus Christ is one and the same with the Archangel Michael mentioned in the Bible. This is a belief that the SDA have in common with the Jehovah's Witnesses. Both sects came out of the Millerite movement in 19th century America.

How did Ellen White come to the conclusion that Jesus is the Archangel Michael? Although she claims to be a prophet, she mentions no visions on this subject.

In her five volume work Conflict of the Ages, "Michael" only occurs four times. One of those is in the Notes at the end and adds nothing new. The other three mentions are quotes from the Book of Daniel, one a straight quote. The other two add a tidbit of commentary.

Here she patches Gabriel's visit to Mary in Luke 1 with Daniel 10 and implies incorrectly that it is gabriel (once again) talking to Daniel in Daniel 10

It isn't:

<< The words of the angel, “I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God,” show that he holds a position of high honor in the heavenly courts. When he came with a message to Daniel, he said, “There is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael [Christ] your Prince.” Dan. 10:21. >>

This is from Ellen White, The Desire of Ages, Chapter 10: The Voice in the Wilderness
(Kindle Locatons 20960-20962)

In case you missed it, that's "but Michael [Christ] your Prince." EW inserts a one word commentary into a quote from Daniel, inserting "[Christ]" after "Michael." There isn't a word of justification for this extraordinary identification.

Again below she refers to Daniel 10 incorrectly and now substitutes Gabriel as wrestling with the powers of darkness and implying that Gabriel needed Michaels help:

<< For three weeks Gabriel wrestled with the powers of darkness, seeking to counteract the influences at work on the mind of Cyrus; and before the contest closed, Christ Himself came to Gabriel's aid. “The prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days,” Gabriel declares; “but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.” Daniel 10:13. >>

--Ellen White, Prophets and Kings, Chapter 46: "The Prophets of God Helping Them"
(Kindle Locations 18185-18188)

Here Ellen White gives only six words of raw assertion preceding a quote from Daniel where Michael helps defeat the King of Persia.

I have checked other books by Ellen White and can find no mention of the Archangel Michael. In her defining work Conflict of the Ages, there are only seven words of commentary on Michael aside from quoting Daniel. We have only "[Christ]" inserted after "Michael" and "Christ Himself came to Gabriel's aid." This hardly explains why White adopts a position which is not spelled out in the Bible and which is completely at odds with all scholarship outside the Jehovah's Witnesses and those sects which follow Ellen White as a prophet.

Here is a question for Seventh Day Adventists: Am I missing something? Where did Ellen White explain or defend her position that Jesus is one and the same with the Archangel Michael? It looks like she picked up the idea from the Millerite movement and later simply assumed it to be true.

 

[miknik5]

Please supply the scriptures in Daniel wher Gabriel announces himself

He doesn't say anything until one commands him toby saying:

Gabriel give this man the meaning of the vision

 

[Dale]

No, Albion questions whether or not it is correct to say that the SDA's share the JW belief with regard to this matter. I don't think they do.

In addition, this is a 'Christians Only' forum and, as I understand it, a discussion over the nature of Jesus that involves non-Nicene theories is not in order.

Since some doubt that "Michael is Jesus" is the teaching of the present day SDA church, here is an SDA Bible study which says just that. The study is under the headings

"The Adventist's Understanding of Prophecy,"
"SDA Sabbath School Commentary,"
and
"Who is Michael, Your Prince?"

The Bible study is signed by Garrick Augustus and was written in 2013.


Quote:
"Those who maintain that Michael is a mere angel, and thus a created being,know not the Scriptures nor the power of YHWH."


Link:
Who is Michael Your Prince?

 

[CaspianSails]

The founder of the Seventh Day Adventists, prophetess Ellen White, said that Jesus Christ is one and the same with the Archangel Michael mentioned in the Bible. This is a belief that the SDA have in common with the Jehovah's Witnesses. Both sects came out of the Millerite movement in 19th century America.

How did Ellen White come to the conclusion that Jesus is the Archangel Michael? Although she claims to be a prophet, she mentions no visions on this subject.

In her five volume work Conflict of the Ages, "Michael" only occurs four times. One of those is in the Notes at the end and adds nothing new. The other three mentions are quotes from the Book of Daniel, one a straight quote. The other two add a tidbit of commentary.

<< The words of the angel, “I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God,” show that he holds a position of high honor in the heavenly courts. When he came with a message to Daniel, he said, “There is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael [Christ] your Prince.” Dan. 10:21. >>

This is from Ellen White, The Desire of Ages, Chapter 10: The Voice in the Wilderness
(Kindle Locatons 20960-20962)

In case you missed it, that's "but Michael [Christ] your Prince." EW inserts a one word commentary into a quote from Daniel, inserting "[Christ]" after "Michael." There isn't a word of justification for this extraordinary identification.

<< For three weeks Gabriel wrestled with the powers of darkness, seeking to counteract the influences at work on the mind of Cyrus; and before the contest closed, Christ Himself came to Gabriel's aid. “The prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days,” Gabriel declares; “but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.” Daniel 10:13. >>

--Ellen White, Prophets and Kings, Chapter 46: "The Prophets of God Helping Them"
(Kindle Locations 18185-18188)

Here Ellen White gives only six words of raw assertion preceding a quote from Daniel where Michael helps defeat the King of Persia.

I have checked other books by Ellen White and can find no mention of the Archangel Michael. In her defining work Conflict of the Ages, there are only seven words of commentary on Michael aside from quoting Daniel. We have only "[Christ]" inserted after "Michael" and "Christ Himself came to Gabriel's aid." This hardly explains why White adopts a position which is not spelled out in the Bible and which is completely at odds with all scholarship outside the Jehovah's Witnesses and those sects which follow Ellen White as a prophet.

Here is a question for Seventh Day Adventists: Am I missing something? Where did Ellen White explain or defend her position that Jesus is one and the same with the Archangel Michael? It looks like she picked up the idea from the Millerite movement and later simply assumed it to be true.

She would be incorrect and thus disqualified as a prophetess. Christ is God.