Jesus has broken the Sabbath

[All Becomes New]

First Jesus gave Himself as a sacrifice willingly.

True.

Or do you think the Father somehow forced His own Son to subject Himself to becoming human and then dying on the cross?

"Not my will, but thine be done." Not to mention many other passages that Christ only did what the Father ordained. If that is not clear enough, then there is a passage that says, "It pleased God to crush His Son."

 

[Gary K]

Later, when? Do you have a passage you can point to?

So the impossibility of carrying enough stone down the mountainside of Sinai upon which is written most of the book of Exodus and the enitr books of Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy isn't enough for you?

Exo_34:27 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.

 

[All Becomes New]

So the impossibility of carrying enough stone down the mountainside of Sinai upon which is written most of the book of Exodus and the enitr books of Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy isn't enough for you?

No. I'm getting conflicting stories here. Were just the 10 commandments written on stone or not?

 

[Gary K]

It's not a false accusation. Just ask Gary. He'll corroborate that he said that in a previous discussion (maybe earlier in this one).

I'll corroborate what?

 

[BobRyan]

And what Law was given in its place in Romans 8? I will tell you: "The Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus."

Eph 6:2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise:

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

Matt 19:
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said,
“‘You shall not murder,’ (Ex 20)
‘You shall not commit adultery,’ (Ex 20)
‘You shall not steal,’ (Ex 20)
‘You shall not bear false witness,’ (Ex 20)
19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ (Ex 20)
and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ” (Lev 19:18)

All of Jesus's examples come from the Law of Moses.

Does that nullify what John said in 1 John 1:8?

no

And technically, John is saying the APOSTLES cannot be without sin (1 John 1:1)

1 john 1:That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life—

Does not say "Apostles cannot be without sin"

and 1 John 2:1 John says, "I am writing these things to YOU."

"you" - being church members

Two different groups of people there. And if the Apostles cannot be without sin, then neither can anyone else.

No one here argues that someone has lived a sinless life - other than Jesus.

Okay, allow me to make this clear. One of your own has said that the purpose of the Law is to show us we are sinful. Do you agree with that?

Rom 3:19-20 says that - are you saying that the Apostle Paul "is one of our own"? ok... I agree.

 

[Gary K]

No. I'm getting conflicting stories here. Were just the 10 commandments written on stone or not?

How are you getting conflicting stories from me? Demonstrate it by quoting me.

 

[mikeforjesus]

Do those who agree that God commands us "not to take God's name in vain" really think that they can earn salvation by "not taking God's name in vain"? I think we all agree that such is not the case. Just because we agree with the Commandments of God - does not mean that we think that if we "honor our father and mother" we are earning our way to heaven.

I don't see how this is even a little bit confusing.

No he does not.

In Rom 14 Paul is speaking of the God approved days in Lev 23 - the annual holy days and he says that one OBSERVES ONE ABOVE the others while another man observes them all.

In Gal 4 by contrast - Paul condemns even ONE observance of a pagan holy day. Gal 4:9-11

The only commandment Christ does not mention is "do not take God's name in vain" (which is not an argument for taking God's name in vain - as we all know)

Heb 8 - Paul says it is Christ at Sinai speaking the TEN - HE is the one that says "Remember the Sabbath day"
Mark 2:27 Christ said "the Sabbath was made for mankind, not mankind made for the Sabbath"
Matt 5 - Jesus said not to teach or even think that his role is to delete even one of God's commandments.
Is 66:23 for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship"

The 7th day sabbath is the day the Lord created .... before sin.

There were many "sabbaths" in the jewish culture .... but they distinguished the 7th from the others. Sometimes other sabbaths did fall on the 7th day ... that is .... it was included with the other sabbaths .... the other sabbaths were not a replacement of the 7th day.

I knew youse what try to make up justification why I am not clear but actually what I said is the truth even if you claim Paul meant some think they are allowed to observe many holy days and others not to be convinced but you know that is not what he meant and I believe it is such for Paul is clear if anyone attempts to be justified in any work such as circumcision Christ will not profit and also sabbath though was given to all before to Moses was made for man and not man for the sabbath.

And I will not argue anymore to reply to support as Paul says avoid contentions about the law but you can post yourself but I will not reply.

 

[BobRyan]

No. I'm getting conflicting stories here. Were just the 10 commandments written on stone or not?

Just the ten were on stone - but more than the Ten are included in the moral law of God.

Deut 5:22 says God spoke the TEN from the mountain directly to the people "and He added no more".

 

[BobRyan]

Paul is clear if anyone attempts to be justified in any work such as circumcision Christ will not profit and also sabbath

and also "not taking God's name in vain" -- if someone claims they can earn salvation - earn their way to heaven by not taking God's name in vain they are mistaken.

But that is not an argument for taking God's name in vain.

 

[All Becomes New]

Rom 3:19-20 says that - are you saying that the Apostle Paul "is one of our own"? ok... I agree.

Okay, so why does Christ need to know that he is a sinner (by the purpose of the Law)?

How are you getting conflicting stories from me? Demonstrate it by quoting me.

Didn't say you.

 

[All Becomes New]

Just the ten were on stone - but more than the Ten are included in the moral law of God.

Deut 5:22 says God spoke the TEN from the mountain directly to the people "and He added no more".

Right. So the main question is when did Moses get all the laws (besides the 10 commandments)? Because if this is in Deuteronomy, which is the last of the five, then how did Moses get Exodus, Leviticus, and Numbers without first having the entire Law?

But this is beside the point and not a hill I need to die on.

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

I'll corroborate what?

You said something to the effect that thinking that God gave the law to condemn us to death so we would turn to Christ for salvation was tantamount to claiming God is cruel.

 

[mikeforjesus]

and also "not taking God's name in vain" -- if someone claims they can earn salvation - earn their way to heaven by not taking God's name in vain they are mistaken.

But that is not an argument for taking God's name in vain.

Just thought should reply to that as is important that such is a moral issue but sabbath is not something to do with disobedience that ofcourse must not do but as Jesus made clear sabbath was made for man and not man for sabbath. And bible says letter kills but spirit gives life the point is that God gave it to Israel as sign for them and to help them to encourage to give time for the Lord is essential but we are never judged of our sins as long as one repents and it can be done anytime. And peter in the acts decision did not say they must keep sabbath but listed only what is necessary and did not involve sabbath. As I said I would avoid argument anymore that you can just post.

 

[BobRyan]

Right. So the main question is when did Moses get all the laws (besides the 10 commandments)? Because if this is in Deuteronomy, which is the last of the five, then how did Moses get Exodus, Leviticus, and Numbers without first having the entire Law?

Deut was written 40 years after Sinai - and chapter 5 is part of his "40 year review" where he goes back to Sinai and recalls the events at Sinai.

So 40 years later Moses reminds them that only the TEN were spoken to Israel directly from the cloud. However all of Gen, Leviticus and some of Exodus was written there at Sinai.

 

[All Becomes New]

So 40 years later Moses reminds them that only the TEN were spoken to Israel directly from the cloud. However all of Gen, Leviticus and some of Exodus was written there at Sinai.

Interesting. So what is your scriptural basis for this?

 

[BobRyan]

Just thought should reply to that as is important that such is a moral issue but sabbath is not something to do with disobedience that ofcourse must not do but as Jesus made clear sabbath was made for man and not man for sabbath.

It is one of the TEN - and in the NT "sin IS transgression of the Law".
The phrase "TEN Commandments" is A Bible terms. It is a single unite as Eph 6:2 points out.
Sabbath is a day of rest and worship for mankind - it is a blessing, a benefit.
food is also a benefit - but if you don't eat food - eventually you will die.

And peter in the acts decision did not say they must keep sabbath

In Acts 15 they point out that part of the solution to the problem is that they are all hearing Moses preached every Sabbath in the Synagogues - just as we see for the case of gentiles in Acts 13, Acts 17:1-5, Acts 18:4 etc..

 

[BobRyan]

Interesting. So what is your scriptural basis for this?

for which part ... all of it??

 

[All Becomes New]

for which part ... all of it??

Just this part:

However all of Gen, Leviticus and some of Exodus was written there at Sinai.

 

[Gary K]

You said something to the effect that thinking that God gave the law to condemn us to death so we would turn to Christ for salvation was tantamount to claiming God is cruel.

I've never ssid anything of the sort. Quote me, not just assert I said something that crazy.

 

[All Becomes New]

Okay, so why does Christ need to know that he is a sinner (by the purpose of the Law)?

@BobRyan, you never responded to this.