Israel is “not a state of all its citizens”

[Jonaitis]

...

 

[Sparagmos]

How does Israel discriminate between it's non Jewish citizens and Jewish citizens? Provide an example.

First, there is the issue of Israel’s occupation of Palestinian territory on the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. The occupation is more extreme on the West Bank, and most Palestinians there aren’t citizens of Israel, but live under Israeli occupation. Israelis will deny Palestinians permits, declare their homes “illegal,” and BULLDOZE them, so that Israelis can settle there. In Gaza, they cannot travel freely to and from the Gaza Strip and supplies often cannot get in. Palestinians on the Gaza Strip are trapped and cannot enter or leave without permission from Israel. As for Arab citizens living in the official state of Israel, the are treated like second-class citizens, even under the law as of last year when the “Nation-state law” was passed, declaring Israel a Jewish state, and removing Arabic as an official language of Israel. The law also claims a right to Jewish “settlement,” referring to Jewish settlements in Palestinian Territories. Think manifest destiny. If you read the law, you will see that it places Jewish Israelis as first class citizens.
Final text of Jewish nation-state law, approved by the Knesset early on July 19. You can imagine how this law can be applied; it basically endorses preference for Jewish people in a country that is over 20% Palestinian. Christians in Israel also face discrimination under the law and it was widely criticized by church leaders.

Under the Law: Christians Worry About New Status in Jewish Nation-State

 

[Sparagmos]

Where did you get the idea that I considered it legitimate to take things based upon a holy book? I asked you what would you consider a more legitimate reason to take land than to do so based upon a holy book? I did not once claim that taking land based upon a holy book was legitimate. I only said I could not think of a more legitimate reason for taking land. Perhaps you misunderstood my meaning to be that there were legitimate reasons but that basing it on a holy book was more legitimate than those other reasons. I assure that was not what I meant at all.

For real? When a person says ”what could me more legitimate than_____,” the implication is that ______ is quite legitimate. Which is why your answer confused me. So you agree that a holy book is not a legitimate reason for stealing land from people. COOL.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Netanyahu is right: Israel is a nation with no interest in equality | Amjad Iraqi
Non Jews are barred from buying property in the vast majority of Israel for example.

There's a pretty legitimate reason for that.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Yes, but now that they have that real estate, they have to make sure that only the pure get to live on it.

I can't be the only one who sees certain historical parallels here -- none of them pleasant.

Or am I?

Is it wrong for Israel to remain Jewish?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Yeah, pretty disturbing. You think the land was just empty of people?

Does that matter?

 

[anna ~ grace]

Is it wrong for Israel to remain Jewish?

That's a good question. Does having an ethnic national homeland within the confines of your historical ancestors' homeland *mean* that as a contemporary state, you get to make laws and perform actions meant to displace, marginalize, undermine, alienate, or subdue those not of your people / faith?

That's a good question, and worth asking. Does the State of Israel do this, or try to do this? Is it ethical to do this? Should the Jews not have a right to live in their homeland? Of course they should. But at what cost to non-Jews? How far should / does that go?

 

[Ana the Ist]

That's a good question. Does having an ethnic national homeland within the confines of your historical ancestors' homeland *mean* that as a contemporary state, you get to make laws and perform actions meant to displace, marginalize, undermine, alienate, or subdue those not of your people / faith?

That's a good question, and worth asking. Does the State of Israel do this, or try to do this? Is it ethical to do this? Should the Jews not have a right to live in their homeland? Of course they should. But at what cost to non-Jews? How far should / does that go?

More importantly...

Do the people who criticize Israel for this feel the same way about Palestine? Where no Israeli Jew can buy land or live or even become a citizen?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Is it wrong for Israel to remain Jewish?

Depends on what they do to the non-Jewish.

Personally, I can't recall a national quest for racial/ethnic/religious purity that ended well.

 

[TLK Valentine]

There's a pretty legitimate reason for that.

What is it?

 

[TLK Valentine]

More importantly...

Do the people who criticize Israel for this feel the same way about Palestine? Where no Israeli Jew can buy land or live or even become a citizen?

Sure... but we're not the absolute unconditional allies of Palestine.

 

[anna ~ grace]

More importantly...

Do the people who criticize Israel for this feel the same way about Palestine? Where no Israeli Jew can buy land or live or even become a citizen?

This is interesting. Can ethnic Jews live in Palestine as citizens? Are there Jews, any Jews, in Palestine as such?

 

[anna ~ grace]

Should either state be able to do this? If they are, what would a better option be?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Does that matter?

I'm sure it mattered quite a bit to the people who lived there.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Premise 1: Whatever ethnic/racial/religious purity standards Israel wants to implement are going to be utterly meaningless unless they are enforced.

Premise 2: Enforcement of any law necessarily requires punishments of some sort for noncompliance.

So... question: what's the (proposed or actual) punishment from the Israeli government for the crime of not being Jewish enough to pass muster?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Depends on what they do to the non-Jewish.

Personally, I can't recall a national quest for racial/ethnic/religious purity that ended well.

Well I wouldn't worry about it...making sure the state of Israel can't be bought out from under their feet is hardly mass extermination.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I'm sure it mattered quite a bit to the people who lived there.

I'm sure it does...but if being somewhere makes it yours then it's now Israeli land.

 

[Ana the Ist]

This is interesting. Can ethnic Jews live in Palestine as citizens?

No.

Are there Jews, any Jews, in Palestine as such?

Not to my knowledge no...

Palestinians expell jews from their land.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Sure... but we're not the absolute unconditional allies of Palestine.

For good reason.

 

[Ana the Ist]

What is it?

Because one could arguably buy Israel out from under their feet....and decide to expel the jews.