Israel-Hamas Thread II

[ralliann]

Who is who or who is what?

Whoever possesses the following three traits is of the disciples of our father Abraham.
Whoever possesses the opposite three traits is of the disciples of the wicked Balaam.

The disciples of our father Abraham have,
a good eye, a meek spirit and a humble soul.

The disciples of the wicked Balaam have,
an evil eye, a haughty spirit and a gross soul.

Ethics of the Fathers 5:19

This is for who?

 

[Robban]

This is for who?

What kind of questian is that?

 

[ralliann]

What kind of questian is that?

Who is this post for, what is the purpose in the discussion? What is it addressing in this thread?

 

[Philip_B]

That's not possible. Both Abraham and Sarah (who was related to Abraham) were, most likely, Semetic. Hagar, OTOH, was Egyptian so it would be impossible for the 2 peoples to be 'ethnically and genetically the same.'

This matter was sourced from an official US Government website.

The origin of Palestinians and their genetic relatedness with other Mediterranean populations - PubMed

 

[civilwarbuff]

This matter was sourced from an official US Government website.

The origin of Palestinians and their genetic relatedness with other Mediterranean populations - PubMed

You did see this, right? There was a big 'RETRACTION' notice at the top of the article. Unfortunately there is no abstract included.

Retracted article​

See the retraction notice
Retraction of

• The origin of Palestinians and their genetic relatedness with other Mediterranean populations.
  Arnaiz-Villena A, Elaiwa N, Silvera C, Rostom A, Moscoso J, Gómez-Casado E, Allende L, Varela P, Martínez-Laso J. Hum Immunol. 2001 Sep;62(9):889-900. doi: 10.1016/s0198-8859(01)00288-9. PMID: 11543891 Retracted.
  
  

 

[Robban]

Who is this post for, what is the purpose in the discussion? What is it addressing in this thread?

Thread Israel-Hamas.

The conflict today not thousands of years ago.

Thousands of years ago Abraham was fond of Ishmael,

In fact after Sarahs passing Hagar married Abraham under a new name, Keturah, Ishmael returned also.

My post was left open, to give a little more to go on than just believing propaganda.

 

[civilwarbuff]

In fact after Sarahs passing Hagar married Abraham under a new name, Keturah, Ishmael returned also.

And your citation for this claim?

 

[ralliann]

And your citation for this claim?

Kind of curious myself. The Koran does not mention Keturah. Could this kind of idea be why? I don't know.

 

[Robban]

And your citation for this claim?

Based on the tradition of Rabbi Yehuda in Midrash Rabbah 61:4.

Also Rashi tells us that Keturah was one and same as Hagar whom
Abraham had married more than 50 years prior (when he was 86 years of age)

and who bore his firstborn Ishmael.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Based on the tradition of Rabbi Yehuda in Midrash Rabbah 61:4.

Also Rashi tells us that Keturah was one and same as Hagar whom
Abraham had married more than 50 years prior (when he was 86 years of age)

and who bore his firstborn Ishmael.

So it is just an 'oral' tradition then?......cuz it certainly is not Biblical, which for Christians is our authority. I think if Abraham had married Hagar later it most certainly would have been noted by God.

 

[Robban]

So it is just an 'oral' tradition then?......cuz it certainly is not Biblical, which for Christians is our authority. I think if Abraham had married Hagar later it most certainly would have been noted by God.

Remain in the dark then.

 

[Robban]

So it is just an 'oral' tradition then?......cuz it certainly is not Biblical, which for Christians is our authority. I think if Abraham had married Hagar later it most certainly would have been noted by God.

Typical.

 

[ralliann]

So it is just an 'oral' tradition then?......cuz it certainly is not Biblical, which for Christians is our authority. I think if Abraham had married Hagar later it most certainly would have been noted by God.

Gen 25:5 And Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac.
6 But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country.

I also found this
" The Book of Jubilees supports the conclusion that Keturah and Hagar were two different people, by stating that Abraham waited until after Hagar’s death before marrying Keturah4."

 

[Robban]

Gen 25:5 And Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac.
6 But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country.

I also found this
" The Book of Jubilees supports the conclusion that Keturah and Hagar were two different people, by stating that Abraham waited until after Hagar’s death before marrying Keturah4."

Do you really rely on wiki based stuff?

 

[ralliann]

Thread Israel-Hamas.

The conflict today not thousands of years ago.

Ok.

Thousands of years ago Abraham was fond of Ishmael,

In fact after Sarahs passing Hagar married Abraham under a new name, Keturah, Ishmael returned also.

Not that I disagree that Abraham loved his son Ishmael. He was concerned to ask God concerning him.
But the above is thousands of years ago not today, Israel Hamas?

My post was left open, to give a little more to go on than just believing propaganda.

O.K.

 

[ralliann]

Do you really rely on wiki based stuff?

On somethings I do. Most of the time when it comes to Judaism, I look to Chabad . org.
Is anything I put there untrue?

 

[Robban]

So it is just an 'oral' tradition then?......cuz it certainly is not Biblical, which for Christians is our authority. I think if Abraham had married Hagar later it most certainly would have been noted by God.

Written Torah and Oral Torah, the latter was not meant to be written down,

due to persecutions it was thought it may be forgotten so it was written.down.


First Mishnah later Jerusalem Talmud then Babylonian Talmud

 

[Robban]

On somethings I do. Most of the time when it comes to Judaism, I look to Chabad . org.
Is anything I put there untrue?

If you look to Chabad then just type "Keturah"..on the search.

 

[Robban]

Ok.

Not that I disagree that Abraham loved his son Ishmael. He was concerned to ask God concerning him.
But the above is thousands of years ago not today, Israel Hamas?

O.K.

See post #2,920, there not much in Netanyahu &Co's rhetoric

and treatment of the people of Gaza that even match up to the traits of Abrahams disciples.

 

[ralliann]

If you look to Chabad then just type "Keturah"..on the search.

I found what I was looking for. But thanks