Israel-Hamas Thread II

[truthpls]

“If we killed 4,000 Palestinian kids, it wasn’t enough.”

Ex-Obama aide Stuart Seldowitz charged with hate crime as NYC halal cart vendor says he wants to sue for hate speech, harassment​

Mohamed Hussein, 24, said he was still shaken by his recent encounters with the 64-year-old ex-diplomat, who was caught on camera repeatedly harassing the vendor while he manned the Q Halal Cart’s grill on the Upper East Side.

Seldowitz was taken into custody at the NYPD’s 19th Precinct on the Upper East Side later Wednesday. He was charged with aggravated harassment, hate crime stalking, stalking with intent to cause fear and stalking at employment, according to police.

In other clips, Seldowitz was filmed holding an Israel pin up to the window of the halal cart while claiming the vendor supports Hamas.

“You support killing young children,” Seldowitz tells him.

“You kill children, not me. Go,” Hussein can be heard responding as he waves him off.

“I didn’t kill children,” Seldowitz replies, adding: “If we killed 4,000 Palestinian kids, it wasn’t enough.”

I agree it is crazy and all wrapped around hate

 

[truthpls]

I didn't realize Isis was there too.

Pretending Israel was not the focus of what you responded to is cheap deflection

Umm...no, by saving them like opening a corridor where they could get out, dropping flyers, making phone calls, sending text messages. Getting babies to safety and medical care. You know all the things that terrorists do. Oh wait....

Sniping them, bombing fleeing convoys and ambulances and forcibly relocating a population negates all that, even if one believed it

And yet the hospital still stands and there are still patients and medical staff there.

"Israeli army arrests al-Shifa Hospital director, other doctors in Gaza"​

Israeli army arrests al-Shifa Hospital director, other doctors in Gaza

Director Muhammad Abu Salmiya and several other medical personnel detained as Israel continues its Gaza offensive.

www.aljazeera.com

I read how medical staff and others are being killed by Israeli snipers, and bombs falling nearby, and ambulances attacked, and orders to vacate the hospital given etc etc. Then we hear Israel entered. Then we hear 'evidence' was found. etc etc Sorry if I do not believe that Israel has acted benevolently.

Oh I see. Using the good ole anti -Semetic arguments now. Have you seen the videos?

There is nothing anti anyone about asking the source of the video production

I believe the statements were everywhere, in the same floors, the floors above and the floors below. I think that's clear enough.

Statements are a dime a dozen. There are articles that also say the opposite.

Ah... A member of all war is terrorism club. I see where you are coming from.

Especially an attack by tanks and airplanes and heavy weapons and an organized army that the other side does not have ON A CIVILIAN POPULATION. I am not a member of the 'mass murder children and destroy heavily populated areas and call that was club'

 

[Carl Emerson]

This might help...

The British government decided to endorse the establishment of a Jewish home in Palestine. After discussions within the cabinet and consultations with Jewish leaders, the decision was made public in a letter from British Foreign Secretary Lord Arthur James Balfour to Lord Walter Rothschild. The contents of this letter became known as the Balfour Declaration.

---

Foreign Office
November 2nd, 1917
Dear Lord Rothschild,

I have much pleasure in conveying to you. on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet
His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.
I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.

Yours,
Arthur James Balfour

 

[Vanellus]

Truth – and Journalists – Are the First Casualties of the War on Gaza.

Fair, accurate reporting is essential, especially in a time of war and collective punishment. A report on the current four-day pause published by Politico included a short but revealing line, attributed to an unnamed Biden administration official:

“…there was some concern in the administration about an unintended consequence of the pause: that it would allow journalists broader access to Gaza and the opportunity to further illuminate the devastation there and turn public opinion on Israel.”

The U.S. media has primarily relied on reporting from inside Israel, venturing into Gaza only when “embedded” with the Israeli military, obligated to follow uniformed Israeli military spokespeople. What Palestinian would speak freely with a foreign journalist accompanied by an armed Israeli soldier? A condition of participating in this embedded reporting is that all footage must be reviewed and approved by Israeli military censors before being broadcast. What gets reported is little more than Israeli state propaganda.

No amount of censorship, though, can suppress the scale of chaos and carnage

 

[Carl Emerson]

Emir Faisal, son of Sharif Hussein, the leader of the Arab revolt against the Turks, signed an agreement with Chaim Weizmann and other Zionist leaders during the 1919 Paris Peace Conference. “Mindful of the racial kinship and ancient bonds existing between the Arabs and the Jewish people,” it said, “and realizing that the surest means of working out the consummation of their national aspirations s through the closest possible collaboration in the development of the Arab states and Palestine.” Furthermore, the agreement looked to the fulfillment of the Balfour Declaration and called for all necessary measures “...to encourage and stimulate immigration of Jews into Palestine on a large scale, and as quickly as possible to settle Jewish immigrants upon the land through closer settlement and intensive cultivation of the soil.”

Faisal had conditioned his acceptance of the Balfour Declaration on the fulfillment of British wartime promises of independence to the Arabs. These were not kept.

Critics dismiss the Weizmann-Faisal agreement because it was never enacted; however, the fact that the leader of the Arab nationalist movement and the Zionist movement could reach an understanding is significant because it demonstrated that Jewish and Arab aspirations were not necessarily mutually exclusive.​

 

[Carl Emerson]

The mutual agreement between Arabs and Jews regarding the Belfour Declaration was strong and the Arabs were given land by the British for a state which became Jordan.

Chaim Weizmann, wearing headscarf at left as a sign of respect, meets with Emir Faisal (circa 1919)

 

[Bradskii]

Meh with friends like these....

Don't you think you should pause for a moment and ask why almost countries that Israel would class as friendly are telling them to reign in what they are doing? That pleading for an end to the the deaths is anti Semetic? Do you seriously think that I am anti Semetic? That I would like to see Israel fail? I've always backed them. And it's because I always have that I want them to stop.

How much easier do you think it now is for anti Israeli factions in Arab states to recruit people to their viewpoint?

What the Israeli government should be doing every waking hour of every single day is working out how to ensure the long term survival of their nation. Everything else should be secondary to that. And countries around the world do what they can to support them in achieving that. But now they are putting themselves in more danger. Now they are risking losing support of their friends and increasing the numbers of their enemies. They are going to win this battle but take a huge step backwards in the war to ensure their right to exist.

To say the death toll is too high simply because it damages Israel is a cynical position. Is assumes that the toll might be acceptable in some other situation. It wouldn't be. Period. But it also damages Israel's cause as well.

I said that they will win this battle. But to be honest, this isn't even a battle. Looking at the picture long term, compared with what they have had to do in years past, this is a minor skirmish. And even winning it will do more harm to Israel in the long term.

 

[Bradskii]

Some more Hamas' Kool-Aid, if you please. Let your emotions be your guide. Oh! the loss of children! ... Oh, the loss of innocent lives!

The reason you are at a loss to continue is that you use only your emotions and not your reason.

"Shrug one's shoulders"? Straw manning the argument, as usual. Right back at you then. If you think that the deaths of 3,999 is OK then I'm at a loss to continue.

See the post directly above this one. It might explain the two aspects of any argument for a discontinuation of the fighting. Yes, of course there is an emotional aspect. Do you think that the death of so many children can be looked at any other way? But there are also cold hard practical reasons why there needs to be a rethink by Israel.

Ignoring those reasons is criminally short sighted.

 

[rjs330]

You can't trust any Palestinian even if they've died in prison!

In Israel, Palestinian Imprisonment Continues Even After Death

In Israel, Palestinian Imprisonment Continues Even After Death​

The policy of post-mortem detention leaves grieving families without closure.​

Lots of people die in prison.

Since 2016, Israeli authorities have held Abed’s corpse in postmortem detention after Abed orchestrated a bus bombing in Jerusalem. He is one of at least 370 dead Palestinians whose bodies Israel’s military are keeping frozen in morgues or buried at undisclosed locations.

Pardon me if I don't feel bad about this after he orchestrated a bus bombing trying to kill a bus load of Jews. But then, not all Palestinians are Hamas.

 

[rjs330]

Sniping them, bombing fleeing convoys and ambulances and forcibly relocating a population negates all that, even if one believed it

They are trying to kill Hamas not let them get away. They obviously didn't force people because many stayed. They asked nicely and she me people refused. Then Hamas decided to use convoys and ambulances to escape. I don't know how often I have to says this. Perhaps there is no point anymore. But if Israel wanted to kill civilians they would not have warned them to leave, they would not have opened safe corridors for them. They could have just flown in there with their air force and destroyed EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE. But they didn't.

 

[rjs330]

Israeli army arrests al-Shifa Hospital director, other doctors in Gaza"​

Israeli army arrests al-Shifa Hospital director, other doctors in Gaza

Director Muhammad Abu Salmiya and several other medical personnel detained as Israel continues its Gaza offensive.

www.aljazeera.com

I read how medical staff and others are being killed by Israeli snipers, and bombs falling nearby, and ambulances attacked, and orders to vacate the hospital given etc etc. Then we hear Israel entered. Then we hear 'evidence' was found. etc etc Sorry if I do not believe that Israel has acted benevolently.

Sounds reasonable to me. Why should Hamas supporting doctors be immune? You notice how the Israelis stopped the ambulances? Why? To check and make sure Hamas isn't on them. You know what they didn't do? Kill everyone inside. They let them go after they made sure. Terrorists wouldn't have done that. You know Hamas wouldn't have.

 

[Valletta]

Don't you think you should pause for a moment and ask why almost countries that Israel would class as friendly are telling them to reign in what they are doing? That pleading for an end to the the deaths is anti Semetic? Do you seriously think that I am anti Semetic? That I would like to see Israel fail? I've always backed them. And it's because I always have that I want them to stop.

How much easier do you think it now is for anti Israeli factions in Arab states to recruit people to their viewpoint?

What the Israeli government should be doing every waking hour of every single day is working out how to ensure the long term survival of their nation. Everything else should be secondary to that. And countries around the world do what they can to support them in achieving that. But now they are putting themselves in more danger. Now they are risking losing support of their friends and increasing the numbers of their enemies. They are going to win this battle but take a huge step backwards in the war to ensure their right to exist.

To say the death toll is too high simply because it damages Israel is a cynical position. Is assumes that the toll might be acceptable in some other situation. It wouldn't be. Period. But it also damages Israel's cause as well.

I said that they will win this battle. But to be honest, this isn't even a battle. Looking at the picture long term, compared with what they have had to do in years past, this is a minor skirmish. And even winning it will do more harm to Israel in the long term.

I suggest that prolonging wars rather than winning those wars, such as in Iraq and Afghanistan, is not a long term solution. Looking toward the future, Iran is close to developing the atomic bomb. After Hamas is eliminated that is something Israel and the world will have to deal with.

 

[Bradskii]

After Hamas is eliminated that is something Israel and the world will have to deal with.

We're not talking about what happens after Hamas is defeated. We're talking about the manner in which they are defeated. Haven't you noticed that this is what everyone is discussing?

 

[truthpls]

They are trying to kill Hamas not let them get away.

They think nurses are 'hamas'? Children? Civilians?

They obviously didn't force people because many stayed.

In other words they did not yet kill them despite the warning

They asked nicely and she me people refused.

Get the hint then I guess. No means no

Then Hamas decided to use convoys and ambulances to escape.

Prove it. Prove that every ambulance attacked had Hamas agents?

I don't know how often I have to says this. Perhaps there is no point anymore. But if Israel wanted to kill civilians they would not have warned them to leave, they would not have opened safe corridors for them. They could have just flown in there with their air force and destroyed EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE. But they didn't.

The world would not have allowed it. Not sure it was out of the goodness of their hearts.

 

[truthpls]

Sounds reasonable to me. Why should Hamas supporting doctors be immune?

Prove all doctors Israel arrested or killed were 'Hamas supporting'?

You notice how the Israelis stopped the ambulances? Why? To check and make sure Hamas isn't on them. You know what they didn't do? Kill everyone inside. They let them go after they made sure. Terrorists wouldn't have done that. You know Hamas wouldn't have.

Hey did they check everyone in this school they bombed today?

"

Israel-Hamas war live: ‘At least 27’ killed in Israeli bombing of UN school"​

Israel-Hamas war updates: Israel bombs UN school, killing ‘at least 27’

Attack comes ahead of the expected beginning of a truce and release of captives and prisoners on Friday.

www.aljazeera.com

Your thin pretense that Israel has been honorable has grown ridiculous.

Also in some ambulance attacks no one was stopped, just bombed!


"

Israel bombs ambulance convoy near Gaza’s largest hospital "​

Israel bombs ambulance convoy near Gaza’s largest hospital

UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres said he was ‘horrified’ by the attack.

www.politico.eu

Of course when they hit civilians or targets considered illegal war crimes, they claim 'Hamas' was there!

"Israel says it hit an ambulance used by Hamas. Gaza officials say it was carrying the wounded.​

It was a harrowing scene of chaos that left several people killed and dozens wounded outside the Al Shifa hospital in Gaza City.

Israel says it hit an ambulance used by Hamas. Gaza officials say it was carrying the wounded.

It was a harrowing scene of chaos that left several people killed and dozens wounded outside the Al Shifa hospital in Gaza City.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Robban]

The Nova music festival.
The line up included artists well known in the Psytrance scene,
such as "Astral projection" and "man with no name"
.
I have no idea what sort of music that is.
But there were many cars there.

I am not a nitty picky person but Simchat Torah driving is not allowed and Shabbat fell on the same day this year too.

There are no priviliges with being "chosen" only increased responsibility.

It is not our task to justify God for what happened on 7/10,
only God Himself can answer for what He allowed to happen.

 

[Vanellus]

Of course when they hit civilians or targets considered illegal war crimes, they claim 'Hamas' was there!

Assuming that every building that Israel has destroyed was "being used by Hamas" then wouldn't that make the manpower strength of Hamas to be in the 100,000s at least

 

[truthpls]

Assuming that every building that Israel has destroyed was "being used by Hamas" then wouldn't that make the manpower strength of Hamas to be in the 100,000s at least

Good point. They should be ashamed of themselves

 

[rjs330]

Don't you think you should pause for a moment and ask why almost countries that Israel would class as friendly are telling them to reign in what they are doing? That pleading for an end to the the deaths is anti Semetic? Do you seriously think that I am anti Semetic? That I would like to see Israel fail? I've always backed them. And it's because I always have that I want them to stop.

How much easier do you think it now is for anti Israeli factions in Arab states to recruit people to their viewpoint?

What the Israeli government should be doing every waking hour of every single day is working out how to ensure the long term survival of their nation. Everything else should be secondary to that. And countries around the world do what they can to support them in achieving that. But now they are putting themselves in more danger. Now they are risking losing support of their friends and increasing the numbers of their enemies. They are going to win this battle but take a huge step backwards in the war to ensure their right to exist.

To say the death toll is too high simply because it damages Israel is a cynical position. Is assumes that the toll might be acceptable in some other situation. It wouldn't be. Period. But it also damages Israel's cause as well.

I said that they will win this battle. But to be honest, this isn't even a battle. Looking at the picture long term, compared with what they have had to do in years past, this is a minor skirmish. And even winning it will do more harm to Israel in the long term.

First off real friends would stand by them and trust them to do what is necessary. Asking them to be cautious or even showing them ways how they can go after Hamas without endangering g more civilians is certainly in the table for friends. But just telling them to stop, enough is enough is not being a good friend. It's putting them in more danger. But apparently no one has any better solutions in how to take out terrorists who are hiding among the populace, using hospitals as bases or operation, hiding in ambulances and fighting from schools. Seems like no really has the ability or the technology to determine who and where Hamas actually is when hiding among civilians. Military intelligence is the only way to discover that or you find out when the rpgs come flying at you.

Arabs don't need reasons to be anti-Semetic. They just are. Israel could be nice as pie and they would still hate and wish to destroy them.

They are insuring their right to exist right now. Their enemies are taking notice that they won't put up with it anymore. They have set a or credence that if a terrorist organization comes after them, the retribution will be severe. The only thing these people understand and respect is strength.

The only cause that is really weakened are those who are weak and squeamish to begin with. Their cause is stronger with their real friends because their real friends know exactly what it is they face over there. And they know that Israel HAS to be strong otherwise it just emboldens their enemies.

Those people to think anything like you do.

 

[rjs330]

They think nurses are 'hamas'? Children? Civilians?

I dont know and neither do you. Yes nurses certainly can be Hamas or supporters of them as well as kids. Your ignorance is astounding.

In other words they did not yet kill them despite the warning

Because they didn't need to. It's because Israel only kills when necessary. Why don't you get that? Hamas kills whether it's necessary or not.

Prove it. Prove that every ambulance attacked had Hamas agents?

It's not up to me to prove. But it has been a known tactic of Hamas. They admitted it. Not that you'll believe it because you trust you'd rather trust terrorist organizations and propaganda. Hamas wouldn't do such a thing, you say, Hamas wouldn't have doctors or nurses as part of their organization or their support group. Hamas wouldn't lie about anything.

We all know who you support now. It's pretty obvious.