Israel-Hamas Thread II

[Carl Emerson]

Are you sure you are not getting info second hand? They probably also fear Israel. You make it sound like there are a few terrorists holding a population hostage. I am not so sure they either support Hamas killing babies, or that Hamas treats the people as badly as you suggest.

You might like to watch the video.

 

[truthpls]

You might like to watch the video.

The video of the Hamas guy wasn't so interesting. I made it to about as far as far as the claim that Oct 7 was connected to Putin and meant to divert attention from Ukraine.
Yes, Hamas are terrorists. The problem is that more innocents are being killed and terrorized by Israel now.

So trying to point to another terrorist does not justify what is being done.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The video of the Hamas guy wasn't so interesting. I made it to about as far as far as the claim that Oct 7 was connected to Putin and meant to divert attention from Ukraine.
Yes, Hamas are terrorists. The problem is that more innocents are being killed and terrorized by Israel now.

So trying to point to another terrorist does not justify what is being done.

So you didn't watch it...

 

[rjs330]

No they can get in line. There are other terrorists killing children there.

I didn't realize Isis was there too.

By killing them?

Umm...no, by saving them like opening a corridor where they could get out, dropping flyers, making phone calls, sending text messages. Getting babies to safety and medical care. You know all the things that terrorists do. Oh wait....

Having snipers take out medical staff that move and bombing all over nearby does the trick I guess

And yet the hospital still stands and there are still patients and medical staff there.

Produced in Tel Aviv?

Oh I see. Using the good ole anti -Semetic arguments now. Have you seen the videos?

All over the place mean little. Medical staff were all over the place and some getting killed.

I believe the statements were everywhere, in the same floors, the floors above and the floors below. I think that's clear enough.

With bombs. They are hot and when they don't kill they can behead, take off limbs, kill parents etc etc There are no false claims on my end. The terrorism we have seen against Gaza is historic and I can't think of a precedent

Ah... A member of all war is terrorism club. I see where you are coming from.

 

[rjs330]

A point being missed is the following.

Hamas broke through a wall without warning and slaughtered about 1200 innocent people with extreme cruelty that the world rarely sees.

Israel dropped leaflets and warned civilians to move out before they targeted they perpetrators.

Civilians that remained were either Hamas sympathisers, or supporters, or were forced to remain as hostages or human shields.
And lastly, those who weighed the impending situation and chose to remain, in full knowledge of the risk.

At that point the cost of collateral damage had to be assessed. Hamas made the price of innocents being caught up in the fight as high as possible - it was planned that way to evoke public sympathy.

Hamas celebrated the slaughter of innocents and intend to bring their terror madness to a town near you.

Israel proceeds to bring justice with pin point accuracy and there are inevitable casualties among unarmed citizens who chose to or were forced to remain.

I cant see that they had any other choice Hamas started a war and Israel have responded.

Now we are fighting a war of misinformation - also well planned - and violent demonstrations - also well planned.

Who is the enemy here ???

Oh I don't think it's being missed. I think it's being deliberately ignored in favor of terrorist propaganda. It's pretty easy to see who the terror supporters are. No one on this thread is ignorant anymore.

 

[rjs330]

Gazans may or may not support Hamas, many do not. However, they are mostly still anti Israel. Hamas is not the only terrorist group operating in Gaza and the two groups have plenty of support. It was one of those other groups that fired the missile that ended up in the hospital car park.

The majority of those that did not support Hamas did so because they were bad at governing. It wasn't because of Hamas' stance on destroying Israel. In fact the vast majority of Gazans supported that part of Hamas.

 

[rjs330]

Not a sensible one after a comparison is made between a terrorist organization and a militarized version of the boy scouts and how they can be mentally reconditioned in some way. Aromatherapy perhaps...

Hmmm.. never thought of that. I wonder if it would work?

 

[rjs330]

You may have seen what I posted earlier when our foreign minister urged Israel to show restraint. And urged for a cease fire. And she spoke as an Israeli supporter. A friend of that nation.

Do you know what will happen if they continue? They will lose the support of their friends. Friends who are trying to tell them that the price they extracting is too high.

Do you know who will be most pleased at that outcome? Can you possibly imagine? Do you know who is Israel's worst enemy as you read this? Israel.

Meh with friends like these....

 

[Robban]

Yes, but only through the Messiah, the Christ, Jesus.

Why was the first Temple destroyed?
Because there was idolatry, promiscuity and murder.

But the second Temple, at which time they were occupied
in Torah, mitzvot and charity.
Why was it destroyed?

Because there was baseless hate between them.
Talmud Yoma 9b.

It was the leaders of the nation who harbored baseless hatred for each other, the people of the nation as a whole did not hate one another.


The entire people of Israel comprise a singel soul,
only the body seperates,

As a bicycle wheel, at the outer rim the spokes are spaced apart,
but each one comes from the center.

 

[o_mlly]

I can think of very many wars that were conducted in a way that caused unnecessary death and suffering. In fact, I'm struggling to think of one in my lifetime that didn't (Falklands War?). Quite possibly anything 19th century and previously when it was simply one army v another army. So it's a very naive position to take to shrug one's shoulders and say - hey, this is an unfortunate and unavoidable result of armed conflict. Abject nonsense.

And most definitely I want to protest that the number of innocent civilian deaths can be too high. If you don't think that the deaths 4,000 children is too high in this conflict then I'm at a loss to continue. I'll just note that you don't consider it too high.

Some more Hamas' Kool-Aid, if you please. Let your emotions be your guide. Oh! the loss of children! ... Oh, the loss of innocent lives!

The reason you are at a loss to continue is that you use only your emotions and not your reason.

"Shrug one's shoulders"? Straw manning the argument, as usual. Right back at you then. If you think that the deaths of 3,999 is OK then I'm at a loss to continue.

 

[civilwarbuff]

A very interesting interview of the PNI secretary general by Kay Burleigh of the BBC. I now see how and where the hamas propagandists and sympathizers posting here get their get their information:

 

[Robban]

Why was the first Temple destroyed?
Because there was idolatry, promiscuity and murder.

But the second Temple, at which time they were occupied
in Torah, mitzvot and charity.
Why was it destroyed?

Because there was baseless hate between them.
Talmud Yoma 9b.

It was the leaders of the nation who harbored baseless hatred for each other, the people of the nation as a whole did not hate one another.


The entire people of Israel comprise a singel soul,
only the body seperates,

As a bicycle wheel, at the outer rim the spokes are spaced apart,
but each one comes from the center.

Add on.
Uforatzta
Genesis 28:14

 

[Robban]

Uforatzta

 

[JosephZ]

Thank you Joseph, can you answer my last question on post #990 please?

Who is the enemy here ???

Hamas is clearly an enemy to both Israel and the Palestinian people and must be eradicated.

As for your assertion that most who remained were not Hamas supporters how would you support this assertion?

This would be supported by polls that were taken just prior to the October 7th terrorist attack, along with numerous interviews and comments made by Palestinians since the conflict began.

I would think that the quote below from Kamel Ayyad, Spokesperson for the Church of Saint Porphyrius in Gaza City, would represent the feelings of most Palestinians in northern Gaza, regardless of their religious affiliation.

“We are all Palestinians. We live in the same city, with the same suffering. We are all under siege and are all the same; the Christians are suffering like any other Gaza people; this is our land, and we will not leave. Can you imagine that someone called you and forced you and your family to go to another place? We will stay."

 

[Vanellus]

A point being missed is the following.

Hamas broke through a wall without warning and slaughtered about 1200 innocent people with extreme cruelty that the world rarely sees.

Israel dropped leaflets and warned civilians to move out before they targeted they perpetrators.

Civilians that remained were either Hamas sympathisers, or supporters, or were forced to remain as hostages or human shields.
And lastly, those who weighed the impending situation and chose to remain, in full knowledge of the risk.

At that point the cost of collateral damage had to be assessed. Hamas made the price of innocents being caught up in the fight as high as possible - it was planned that way to evoke public sympathy.

Hamas celebrated the slaughter of innocents and intend to bring their terror madness to a town near you.

Israel proceeds to bring justice with pin point accuracy and there are inevitable casualties among unarmed citizens who chose to or were forced to remain.

I cant see that they had any other choice Hamas started a war and Israel have responded.

Now we are fighting a war of misinformation - also well planned - and violent demonstrations - also well planned.

Who is the enemy here ???

The "safe" south was bombed as well. Of course if you think Hamas is using every square inch of Gaza you can justify this to yourself: Israel can do no wrong of course.
Dozens killed as Israeli strikes hit southern Gaza refuge areas

More than 100 Palestinians have been killed in air strikes in southern Gaza, officials say, as the Israeli military continues to target the area despite ordering civilians to shelter there.
Most of the dead reportedly fled their homes in the north ahead of what is expected to be a major ground offensive against the militant group Hamas.

 

[Vanellus]

A very interesting interview of the PNI secretary general by Kay Burleigh of the BBC. I now see how and where the hamas propagandists and sympathizers posting here get their get their information:

The IDF being so much more reliable. as everyone knows Hamas hostage guards are called Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday and Palestinians travel to Lebanese film sets to feign injuries.

 

[essentialsaltes]

The problem is that more innocents are being killed and terrorized by Israel now.

So trying to point to another terrorist does not justify what is being done.

“If we killed 4,000 Palestinian kids, it wasn’t enough.”

Ex-Obama aide Stuart Seldowitz charged with hate crime as NYC halal cart vendor says he wants to sue for hate speech, harassment​

Mohamed Hussein, 24, said he was still shaken by his recent encounters with the 64-year-old ex-diplomat, who was caught on camera repeatedly harassing the vendor while he manned the Q Halal Cart’s grill on the Upper East Side.

Seldowitz was taken into custody at the NYPD’s 19th Precinct on the Upper East Side later Wednesday. He was charged with aggravated harassment, hate crime stalking, stalking with intent to cause fear and stalking at employment, according to police.

In other clips, Seldowitz was filmed holding an Israel pin up to the window of the halal cart while claiming the vendor supports Hamas.

“You support killing young children,” Seldowitz tells him.

“You kill children, not me. Go,” Hussein can be heard responding as he waves him off.

“I didn’t kill children,” Seldowitz replies, adding: “If we killed 4,000 Palestinian kids, it wasn’t enough.”

 

[Carl Emerson]

OK so far so good - now can we address a deeper question please...

What is a 'Palestinian' is this a legitimate race with a right to the land?

Was not the Land occupied by the Jews from ancient times and were they not the ones driven out from their land ?

Who are the 'Palestinians'?

 

[truthpls]

So you didn't watch it...

Some point in there you want to make? Or just promoting videos?

 

[Vanellus]

You can't trust any Palestinian even if they've died in prison!

In Israel, Palestinian Imprisonment Continues Even After Death

In Israel, Palestinian Imprisonment Continues Even After Death​

The policy of post-mortem detention leaves grieving families without closure.​