Israel-Hamas Thread II

[Philip_B]

There is really no way to tell them from anyone else.

That may be because they are all Semitic People, as indeed are the Jews. And indeed they are all human beings made in the image and after the likeness of God.

 

[Krav Maga]

I disagree as does most of the planet

When 35,000 plus are killed, mostly women and children, of course it is deliberate.

Baloney. Quoting Jerualem Post? You might as well quote Mein Kamph

And in my analysis whoever said that is either bought off, from Israel, or out of their gourd or lying.

Yet the USA enabled and abetted the genocide. Elevating some shrill hypocritical doublespeak, where they speak out of both sides of their mouth to get votes means nothing. Actions count.

Trying to

When you bomb an apartment and estimate it was mostly combatants, you do not fool as many as you thought.

There are tens of thousands starved and killed actually. Your wish to demonize them and label them combatants is worthless.

No wonder they support Israel then!

Yes

Yes

They also shot aid workers, stopped most aid and etc.

Other nations have guilt as well, that does not justify the terrorism and mass murder of Israel.

IDF news? Ha

My wish is that they repent today actually. Like God I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked.

Jerusalem does have trouble but His return does not depend on that.

That’s not at all accurate according to the new report that shows less women and children have died then the Gaza Health Ministry reported which is controlled by Hamas. Think about it same group that is hiding in their tunnels are feeding you these images from past wars and body counts. Luckily today we know that Hamas numbers of the amount of children and women was fabricated. (Article below)

Not to mention many of Hamas members that are killed are listed in the civilian casualties figures (Hamas doesn’t even deny this).

Gaza death toll: UN says number of deaths remains unchanged after controversy | CNN

A spokesperson said the health ministry in Gaza is tracking two separate death tolls – an overall death toll and a total number of identified fatalities.

amp.cnn.com

 

[Krav Maga]

I should mention that the people you are referring to are Palestinians that you are asking to join the Israeli forces, and the group you are referring to is Hamas. I can only assume that your misspelling of their names was intentional and as pointless as your proposed actions. I wonder what you feel about Palestinian Christians? Maybe that is who your "Never Mind" was directed to!?

Do you know that nearly 20% of Israel population are Arab Muslims? Many Arabs and Muslims can rise to any position like Lucy Aharish who was first Muslim-Arab news anchor or Dr. Shadan Salameh first Arab woman to lead the ER In Israel or even a Supreme Court Justice is an Arab by the name Khaled Kabub. In Israel 2 million are Arabs and 1.7 are Muslims. In Israel Arabs, Jews, Muslims, Christians, gays all can live in peace.

 

[Krav Maga]

Israel has never given the Palestinians an opportunity to have a sovereign state. How can they build one if they Israel doesn't allow them to have one?

Remember Hamas planned a war for over a year knowing what the response would be. In that time they stored rations in tunnels but not for the people of Gaza. They hide in tunnels as their citizens die above ground. They have generators in their tunnels as hospitals lose power.

The government of Hamas has been using their money/effort on bombs, military tunnels, and attacks on Israel, instead of making their own lives and their citizens lives better. Think about it the leaders of Hamas have billions of dollars and don’t use it on their own people. The head of Hamas doesn’t even live in Gaza. That’s their problem as they are choosing to go to war and make their peoples lives miserable.

This is who the people of Gaza elected. Israel offered peace and two state solution so Palestine could exist many times over which Hamas rejected. Now that’s off the table. Hamas said that this would happen genocide what we witnessed October 7th again and again. Does Israel have a right to defend its people? Hamas is clearly an obstacle from peace.

Hamas leaders worth staggering $11B revel in luxury — while Gaza’s people suffer

Three of the terror group’s most senior figures are able fly private and relax in safety in the tiny emirate — a key US ally — while enjoying an $11bn fortune between them.

nypost.com

 

[Krav Maga]

So does Israel

It is Israel they need rescuing from. I suspect God has the cavalry coming soon

Today Gaza children are taught this at home, place of worship, their school and even by their own government. Palestinian children are being taught to hate and kill. Yet the only thing you usually focus on is the aftermath where that hate leads at the end of the road.

You must stand against the radicalization of the children of Gaza first. In Gaza children don’t have a real childhood nor a proper education. In Israel on the other hand there are protections in place so children can be children. Israelis are not perfect and there is plenty of room for improvement. But to say this is on Israel is dishonest.

Jesus was a Jew that was sent to the house of Israel (Matthew 15:24), the Bible is Jewish, the apostles were Jews, Christianity is a Jewish religion so if anyone doesn’t like Israel well you put it together as salvation came through Israel (John 4:22 first promised in Gen 12:2-3).

 

[truthpls]

That’s not at all accurate according to the new report that shows less women and children have died then the Gaza Health Ministry reported which is controlled by Hamas. Think about it same group that is hiding in their tunnels are feeding you these images from past wars and body counts. Luckily today we know that Hamas numbers of the amount of children and women was fabricated. (Article below)

Not to mention many of Hamas members that are killed are listed in the civilian casualties figures (Hamas doesn’t even deny this).

Gaza death toll: UN says number of deaths remains unchanged after controversy | CNN

A spokesperson said the health ministry in Gaza is tracking two separate death tolls – an overall death toll and a total number of identified fatalities.

amp.cnn.com

Sorry, CNN is less credible than 'the onion'. Basically with all the schools and camps and hospitals and aid workers and cities that Israel has viciously and mercilessly attacked, there is no longer any possible debate on the matter. They are terrorists and mass murderers and do not have the love of God in them as Jesus said. The wrath of God is coming.

 

[truthpls]

Today Gaza children are taught this at home, place of worship, their school and even by their own government. Palestinian children are being taught to hate and kill. Yet the only thing you usually focus on is the aftermath where that hate leads at the end of the road.

What the world focuses on is the Hitler like cruelty Israel exercises today in the mass terror and murders of civilians. What some claim is taught in their schools (if any are left standing still and not bombed) does not matter. You attempt to demonize the victims.

You must stand against the radicalization of the children of Gaza first.

No. I must not actually. The causes of radicalization there should have been addressed. You should remember that what is taught in schools in countries like Israel (God also calls Sodom) means you cannot point fingers at others!

In Gaza children don’t have a real childhood nor a proper education.

Proper? Ha

In Israel on the other hand there are protections in place so children can be children.

How about the prisons full of Palestinian children and women and etc that are virtual hostages in Israel? I shudder to think how they are treated.

Israelis are not perfect and there is plenty of room for improvement. But to say this is on Israel is dishonest.

They have shown themselves to be wolves. Absolute monsters that mass murder children.

Jesus was a Jew that was sent to the house of Israel (Matthew 15:24), the Bible is Jewish, the apostles were Jews, Christianity is a Jewish religion so if anyone doesn’t like Israel well you put it together as salvation came through Israel (John 4:22 first promised in Gen 12:2-3).

They are not all Israel that claim to be Israel. Don't be fooled by the name. The Israel of God are believers. The Israel God gives that land to will be believers. The Israel there today is headed directly into the wrath of God.

 

[Krav Maga]

Terrorism becomes acceptable to people when they are oppressed and marginalized. Address those issues, and the support for terrorism will come to an end.

That’s not at all accurate as when Hamas took control they made billions which they financed terrorism instead of using to benefit their people. Today the government of Gaza rapes children, sexually exploits them and force children into marriage. Hamas even uses children to fight Israel teaching them hate.

Even women are second hand citizens and are used in many ways including propaganda.This isn’t on Israel this is solely on the government of Gaza.

 

[Krav Maga]

How about the prisons full of Palestinian children and women and etc that are virtual hostages in Israel? I shudder to think how they are treated.

They are not all Israel that claim to be Israel. Don't be fooled by the name. The Israel of God are believers. The Israel God gives that land to will be believers. The Israel there today is headed directly into the wrath of God.

Before you can condemn Israel treatment of children you should condemn Hamas taking a 10 month old baby from his crib by the name of Kfir Bibas and his 4 year old brother Ariel. They both were kidnapped by Hamas yet you refuse to condemn this.

The whole “spiritual Israel” and God doesn’t care about Israel isn’t at all true.

Romans 11 verse one : “I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin.” We see here the verse is talking about his literal descendants not a spiritual one. It’s talking about literal Israel.

Then we go further in verse 3 it says: “Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me” Did non Jews kill his prophets? No the disciples themselves were being hunted down by literal Jews.

Then we go even further to verse 7: “What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened” “People of Israel” that by itself talks about not a spiritual person but a people of a physical place.

Let’s see what Jesus himself said:

“salvation is from the Jews.” - Jesus Christ (John 4:22)

Where did Jesus preach? Israel and even said he was sent to the lost sheep of Israel:

“I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” - Jesus Christ (Matthew 15:24)

 

[Philip_B]

Do you know that nearly 20% of Israel population are Arab Muslims? Many Arabs and Muslims can rise to any position like Lucy Aharish who was first Muslim-Arab news anchor or Dr. Shadan Salameh first Arab woman to lead the ER In Israel or even a Supreme Court Justice is an Arab by the name Khaled Kabub. In Israel 2 million are Arabs and 1.7 are Muslims. In Israel Arabs, Jews, Muslims, Christians, gays all can live in peace.

That is true and certainly, a point that Noa Tishby made in her book on Israel. Rashid Khalidi in his book on the 100 Years War Against Palestine puts forward a well-argued and well-documented case that suggests that it is only part of the story. I suspect that for anyone who wants to be informed these two are both worth reading. Demonising Hamas, Israel, IDF, and Palestinians, does not help. Many of the actions of Hamas should be condemned and are certainly not above criticism, however the actions of Israel whilst perhaps not actually genocide, may well have something of a genocidal flavour, and they appear ready to accept civilian casualties way beyond the normal range. Whilst I do not propose to call Israel a Terrorist State, there is a problem where it seems they are ready to have a population deprived of essential services and aid, and subject to seemingly unfettered military attack.

Both Hebrew and Arabic read from right to left, because they are both Semitic languages. There is a great line in the movie Golda starring Helen Mirram, and I would thoroughly recommend it as worth a trip to the cinema. No one in this story is all good or all bad.

 

[Philip_B]

“salvation is from the Jews.” - Jesus Christ (John 4:22)

Where did Jesus preach? Israel and even said he was sent to the lost sheep of Israel:

Also in Samaria, as you rightly point out.

 

[Krav Maga]

Sorry, CNN is less credible than 'the onion'. Basically with all the schools and camps and hospitals and aid workers and cities that Israel has viciously and mercilessly attacked, there is no longer any possible debate on the matter. They are terrorists and mass murderers and do not have the love of God in them as Jesus said. The wrath of God is coming.

It seems anything you disagree with isn’t “credible” as I can cite many other sources if you wish. The truth is Hamas is to blame. Mosab Hassan Yousef who was the son of the co-founder of Hamas and was a member of Hamas. When referring to protesters siding with Hamas he said: “Hamas would torture them and massacre them with no mercy. They call these people useful idiots”

 

[truthpls]

Before you can condemn Israel treatment of children you should condemn Hamas taking a 10 month old baby from his crib by the name of Kfir Bibas and his 4 year old brother Ariel. They both were kidnapped by Hamas yet you refuse to condemn this.

All terrorists are bad. Whether the terrorists that blow up an apartment with kids in a crib like Israel, or those that attacked people after breaking out of their barbed wire prison like Hamas did. But you do not get to focus on past terror, (real or propaganda and made up) as an excuse to deny a population water and food and medical supplies and attack civilians. There is also the issue that after engaging in Satanic mass murder, a country loses any right to be believed on the claims it makes about almost anything.

The whole “spiritual Israel” and God doesn’t care about Israel isn’t at all true.

He cares about all. The promises in the bible about when God will restore the believers who finally get saved in the end are true. His promises about the wrath to come are also true.

Romans 11 verse one : “I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin.”

So?

We see here the verse is talking about his literal descendants not a spiritual one. It’s talking about literal Israel.

Only after they believe in Jesus in the very end. Not now when they are in unbelief. Only a small remnant will get saved after the vast majority of them are killed in the end.

Then we go further in verse 3 it says: “Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me” Did non Jews kill his prophets? No the disciples themselves were being hunted down by literal Jews.

And, so..? Point?

Then we go even further to verse 7: “What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened” “People of Israel” that by itself talks about not a spiritual person but a people of a physical place.

A place God kicked them out of in the captivity. The second time HE will restore them there will be after they get saved. Yes in that physical place. The unbelieving terrorists there now have another destiny.

Let’s see what Jesus himself said:

“salvation is from the Jews.” - Jesus Christ (John 4:22)

Yes it came that way. He cam that way. NOTHING to do with Israel today.

Where did Jesus preach? Israel and even said he was sent to the lost sheep of Israel:

He was sent there and then sent us all over. That means those children being killed by Israel are supposed to be loved and preached to. Not that they are to be killed.

“I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” - Jesus Christ (Matthew 15:24)

Yet He had mercy on the woman at the well, and the good Samaritan was held up as an example even then. Being sent to a people does not mean they all are good or that no one else was also to be saved or given the gospel as well later. Only the Jews who accepted Jesus were saved. Only the Jews in the end that accept Him will be saved and restored to the land.

 

[truthpls]

It seems anything you disagree with isn’t “credible” as I can cite many other sources if you wish. The truth is Hamas is to blame. Mosab Hassan Yousef who was the son of the co-founder of Hamas and was a member of Hamas. When referring to protesters siding with Hamas he said: “Hamas would torture them and massacre them with no mercy. They call these people useful idiots”

Who cares what Hamas calls anyone or what Israel calls anyone? Who listens to terrorists?

 

[essentialsaltes]

Dozens killed in strike on U.N. school Israel says was used by Hamas​

At least 35 were killed, a UNRWA leader said, as the IDF struck what it called a Hamas compound inside the school in central Gaza.

Israeli fighter jets struck a U.N. school overnight in central Gaza that the Israel Defense Forces said housed a Hamas compound, and killed at least 35 people, according to Philippe Lazzarini, the commissioner general of UNRWA, the U.N. agency for Palestinian refugees.

Lt. Col. Peter Lerner, an IDF spokesman, said at a news conference Thursday that 20 to 30 Hamas and Islamic Jihad fighters were operating from a compound inside the school in the Nuseirat area. The strike had previously been called off twice to limit civilian casualties, Lerner said, and he wasn’t aware of civilian deaths resulting from Thursday’s attack.

Lazzarini wrote on X on Thursday afternoon that the school had been sheltering 6,000 displaced people when it was hit overnight by Israeli forces “without prior warning to the displaced.”

Among those sheltering at the school, he said, were displaced people who had just fled Israeli strikes in other parts of central Gaza.

 

[JosephZ]

Remember Hamas planned a war for over a year knowing what the response would be. In that time they stored rations in tunnels but not for the people of Gaza. They hide in tunnels as their citizens die above ground. They have generators in their tunnels as hospitals lose power.

The government of Hamas has been using their money/effort on bombs, military tunnels, and attacks on Israel, instead of making their own lives and their citizens lives better. Think about it the leaders of Hamas have billions of dollars and don’t use it on their own people. The head of Hamas doesn’t even live in Gaza. That’s their problem as they are choosing to go to war and make their peoples lives miserable.

That’s not at all accurate as when Hamas took control they made billions which they financed terrorism instead of using to benefit their people.

Hamas is a terrorist group, what do you expect from them?

This is who the people of Gaza elected.

Hamas' control of Gaza came by force.

Hamas only received 44.45% of the vote in 2006, but it gave them a majority of 74 seats in the 132 seat Palestinian Legislative Council at that time. Less than 15% of Gazans alive today voted for Hamas. In 2007, Hamas violently took control of Gaza.

Hamas gunmen seized military control of the Gaza Strip on Thursday, executing Fatah rivals and provoking the collapse of their power-sharing Palestinian Authority government.

As Fatah’s last security command centers fell after four days of fighting, Hamas military men in black masks moved unchallenged across Gaza City, hunting down foes, blowing up homes and dragging the body of a top Fatah militant through the streets.

Firing mortars, grenade launchers and automatic weapons, Hamas fighters captured the Gaza City headquarters of the Preventive Security, Intelligence and National Security agencies Thursday afternoon, and executed some of their captives. The Presidential Guard compound fell late in the evening. All were controlled by Fatah.

Earlier in the day, Hamas overran the main Fatah compound in the southern city of Rafah, giving it full control of the border with Egypt, a source of the smuggled weapons that have expanded the movement’s arsenal in recent months.

Hamas fighters overran the headquarters amid mortar rounds and gunfire. They raised green Hamas flags over the shattered two-story compound, kneeled to the ground in prayer and marched handcuffed Fatah gunmen into the streets, some shirtless or in their underwear.

Hamas wins the battle for Gaza control

With his Fatah forces driven from the strip, Abbas dissolves the Cabinet but the Islamist premier vows to stay.

www.latimes.com

Israel offered peace and two state solution so Palestine could exist many times over which Hamas rejected. Now that’s off the table.

There have not been negotiations between Hamas and Israel for a two state solution. Hamas is a terrorist group and is not the representative government of the Palestinian territories.

Hamas said that this would happen genocide what we witnessed October 7th again and again. Does Israel have a right to defend its people? Hamas is clearly an obstacle from peace.

Again, Hamas is a terrorist group. Terrorist groups are often spoilers when it comes to attempts to achieve peace in times of conflict. Israel has a right to defend itself against terrorists.

Today the government of Gaza rapes children, sexually exploits them and force children into marriage. Hamas even uses children to fight Israel teaching them hate.

Even women are second hand citizens and are used in many ways including propaganda. This isn’t on Israel this is solely on the government of Gaza.

The government of Israel is also guilty of human rights abuses.

With respect to Israeli security forces in the Occupied Palestinian Territories: arbitrary or unlawful killings; enforced disappearance; torture or cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment; harsh and life-threatening prison or detention conditions; arbitrary arrest or detention; political prisoners or detainees; arbitrary or unlawful interference with privacy; punishment of family members for alleged offenses by a relative; serious abuses in a conflict, including widespread civilian deaths or harm, enforced disappearances or abductions, forcible transfers of civilian populations, torture, physical abuses, conflict-related sexual violence or punishment; serious restrictions on freedom of expression and media freedom, including violence or threats of violence against journalists, unjustified arrests or prosecutions of journalists, and censorship; serious restrictions on internet freedom; substantial interference with the freedom of peaceful assembly and freedom of association, including overly restrictive laws on the organization, funding, or operation of nongovernmental and civil society organizations; restrictions on freedom of movement and residence and on the right to leave the occupied territories; serious government restrictions on or harassment of domestic and international human rights organizations; and crimes involving violence or threats of violence targeting Palestinians.

With respect to Israeli civilians against Palestinian civilians in the West Bank: unlawful killings; physical abuses; crimes involving violence or threats of violence targeting Palestinians.

Israeli security forces (ISF) and settlers killed 509 Palestinians in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, including at least 121 children during the year, according to the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (UNOCHA) in the Occupied Palestinian Territories. The UN office noted that this was the deadliest year for Palestinians in the West Bank since UNOCHA began recording casualties in 2005.

A July report from the NGO Save the Children found the majority of the 228 former child detainees it surveyed from across the West Bank experienced physical and emotional abuse in Israeli detention, including being beaten (86 percent), threatened with harm (70 percent), and hit with sticks or guns (60 percent). The NGO found some children reported sexual violence and abuse, including being hit or touched on the genitals, and 69 percent reported being strip searched. According to the report, 70 percent said they suffered from hunger while in detention, and 42 percent of children reported they were injured by Israeli security forces during their arrest.

Technical Difficulties

 

[rjs330]

That may be because they are all Semitic People, as indeed are the Jews. And indeed they are all human beings made in the image and after the likeness of God.

No it's because they are terrorists who wear no uniforms and hide among the people in order to create confusion and chaos. All this because they hate Jews and want to murder them.

 

[rjs330]

The wrath of God is coming.

Yes against the enemies of Israel.

 

[Philip_B]

No it's because they are terrorists who wear no uniforms and hide among the people in order to create confusion and chaos. All this because they hate Jews and want to murder them.

That is a two-way street. Are you saying it is alright to kill people so long as you are wearing a uniform?

 

[essentialsaltes]

That is a two-way street. Are you saying it is alright to kill people so long as you are wearing a uniform?

Speaking of not wearing uniforms...

Did Israel’s dramatic raid on a West Bank hospital violate the rules of war?​

Israeli agents disguised as medical staff and patients pulled out rifles, subdued hospital workers and headed for Room 376.

The agents shot and killed the patient there — he had been wounded months earlier in an Israeli airstrike — as well as his brother and a friend.

Legal experts said it’s likely that the hospital attack violated international laws governing conduct during war, including one that prohibits combatants from posing as doctors or other civilians, and another that bars the killing of adversaries who have been wounded.