Israel Can't Make a New Ark for a New Temple

keras said:

The Ark and the other Temple furnishings were hidden by Jeremiah, as recorded in 2 Maccabees 2:4-8.....hidden in a cave near Mt Nebo. In the latter days the Lord will show His people where they are and they will adorn the new Temple.

Many prophesies confirm the new Temple, to be built by the Lord's faithful Christian peoples, His Israelites from every race, nation and language.
After Jesus Returns, people from all the nations will come to worship King Jesus there. Zechariah 14:16-21

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I also believe the Ark of the covenant never left its location which is now modern day Israel.

There was the siege on Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar, spoken about in 2 kings 25

The Israelites had the Ark and then surrendered to the siege. During the siege it was impossible for the Ark to leave the city. Chapter 25 lists all the loot taken from the city after the siege but the Ark is not on the list,so I believe it was hidden before the Babylonians could seize it.

Ron Wyatt claims to have found it but I can't confirm this.

It is in the Sanctuary of God in Heaven................ Revelation................

New House New Stones
John in a tabernacle in Revelation............

Jeremiah 3:16
“Then it shall come to pass, when you are multiplied and increased in the land in those days,” says the LORD, “that they will say no more, ‘The Ark of the Covenant of the LORD.'
It shall not come to mind,
nor shall they remember it,
nor shall they visit it,
nor shall it be made anymore.

The word used here in Revelation is "Sanctuary<3485>" not "Temple<2411>"

Revelation 11:19
And was opened the Sanctuary of the God the in the heaven and was seen the Ark of the Covenant of Him in His Sanctuary
and became lightnings and voices/sounds and thunders and quaking and great hail.

Revelation 15:8
And is being-filled-full/repleted the Sanctuary of smoke out of the glory of the God, and out of the power of Him.
And no one was able to be entering into the Sanctuary until should be being finished the seven blows/stripes of the seven Messengers.

Revelation 16:17
the seventh Messenger did pour out his vial to the air, and there came forth a great Voice from the Sanctuary of the Heaven, from the Throne saying "it hath become"!
===========================
Studies In The Scriptures - Tabernacle Shadows - Chapter 1
The Camp--The Gate--
The Court--The Brazen Altar--The Laver--
The Tabernacle--
The First Veil--The Table--The Lampstand--The Golden Altar--
The Second Veil The Mercy Seat and Ark--The Second Veil--

The Significance of These and Their Antitypes.

========================

Will the Ark ever be found?

CreedIsChrist said: ↑
Do you believe the Ark of the Covenant will ever be found?

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PaladinValer said:

If the Ethiopian Orthodox did have it, then they should allow people to see it, for thanks to Christ we are all hiereus.

Therefore, if we accept orthodox theology, then we should be able to see it.
Therefore, I highly doubt they have it, but if they do, the fact that they don't show it implies a very bad theology on their part.

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Dale said:

Many of the theories about the meaning of Revelation and other Biblical prophecies that we see on Christian Forums assume that the Jewish Temple will be rebuilt in Jerusalem. It is possible for Jews to rebuild the Temple. If they do, it will be called the Third Temple. The Temple standing at the time of Christ was the Second Temple. The Jewish Law allows a new Temple to be built, but a Third Temple may not be politically possible. There would be an international backlash. Very few Israelis are interested in the project, either as a matter of national pride, or as a matter of religious practice.

While Israelis could build a new Temple, if they wanted to badly enough, they cannot make a new Ark. The original Ark made at the time of Moses has been lost, it was destroyed. I have run into CF posters who become testy if you say that the Ark no longer exists, but it is settled history. Jeremiah referred to the loss of the Ark.

"In those days, when your numbers have increased greatly in the land,” declares the Lord, “people will no longer say, ‘The ark of the covenant of the Lord.’ It will never enter their minds or be remembered; it will not be missed, nor will another one be made."
Jeremiah 3:16 NIV

Here Jeremiah either predicts the destruction of the Ark, or it has already happened. Jeremiah predicts that memory of the Ark will fade and it will become ancient history. Why didn't the Israelites make a new Ark to replace the one lost to a foreign enemy? Making a new Ark according to the directions laid down in Exodus might seem straightforward. In Exodus 31, God tells Moses that He has chosen Bezalel and Oholiab to make the Ark and other furnishings of the Tabernacle. Bezalel was the master craftsman and Oholiab was his associate, or assistant.

Then the Lord said to Moses, 2 “See, I have chosen Bezalel son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah, 3 and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with wisdom, with understanding, with knowledge and with all kinds of skills— 4 to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver and bronze, 5 to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts. 6 Moreover, I have appointed Oholiab son of Ahisamak, of the tribe of Dan, to help him. Also I have given ability to all the skilled workers to make everything I have commanded you: 7 the tent of meeting, the ark of the covenant law with the atonement cover on it, and all the other furnishings of the tent— 8 the table and its articles, the pure gold lampstand and all its accessories, the altar of incense, 9 the altar of burnt offering and all its utensils, the basin with its stand— 10 and also the woven garments, both the sacred garments for Aaron the priest and the garments for his sons when they serve as priests, 11 and the anointing oil and fragrant incense for the Holy Place. They are to make them just as I commanded you.”
Exodus 31: 1-11 NIV


God commanded that the Ark be made by Bezalel and Oholiab. When these two men passed away, there was no way to follow God's commands in making a new Ark.

What did they use for an Ark in the Second Temple? The Holy of Holies was empty.

As the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia tells us, at the time of Ezekiel:

"There was then no Ark of the Covenant, but Jewish tradition relates that the blood of the great Day of Atonement was sprinkled on an unhewn stone that stood in its place. In Herod's temple ... The holiest place continued empty."
--International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

Link
Holy of Holies in the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia.


Jesus seems to have indirectly referred to the Holy of Holies being an empty room in Matthew 23: 16-22. Here He is criticizing the Pharisees for swearing on the Temple and on the altar in the Temple. He does not mention swearing on the Ark. No one made that mistake because they knew there was no Ark in the Temple.

Where does this leave us? Modern day Jews cannot build another Ark. Jewish scripture doesn't leave any wiggle room, and there is the precedent of the Second Temple. A new Ark wasn't made then, so one won't be made now.

There are several reasons that few Jews are interested in building a new Temple. In Old Testament times, most families owned animals, even if that wasn't their main business. Sacrificing animals at the Temple in gratitude to God, or by way of asking forgiveness, made sense to people. But how many Jews own sheep today? Jews have done without animal sacrifice for almost two thousand years and few want to bring it back.

If it were possible to make a new Ark and place it in a new Temple, that could be a matter of national and religious pride. Without an Ark, it may not be worth the trouble.

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The Apostles Paul and Peter say that all believers make up the new temple that Jesus brought in (Ephesians 2:18-22; 1 Peter 2:4-10). Besides, when Jesus died, the veil hiding the Ark ripped from top to bottom, symbolizing our direct access to God rather than through a priest. Thus, the Ark as the symbol of God's presence is no longer needed.

Finally found the quotation for you.....

"In a September 1935, article in the National Geographic magazine, L. Roberts recorded his interviews with various priests in different parts of Ethiopia who consistently told the same story. They recounted that the Queen of Sheba had visited King Solomon and had had "a child", Menelik I. Solomon educated the lad in Jerusalem until he was nineteen years old. The boy then returned to Ethiopia with a large group of Jews, taking with him the true Ark of the Covenant.
......
The Ethiopian official national epic known as the Glory of the Kings (Kebra-Nagasi) contains an amazing story which offers an explanation of what happened to the Ark of the Covenant. In addition, there are several Ethiopian murals which tell how the Ark and the Tablets of the Law were taken to Ethiopia for safekeeping by Prince Menelik I. ..... The Queen of Sheba, his mother, had died and the prince prepared to leave Jerusalem to return twenty-five hundred miles to his native country to become its king.

Prince Menelik bore an uncanny resemblance in beauty and regal bearing to his father. King Solomon wanted to give him a replica of the Ark to take with him to Ethiopia because the long distance would prevent him from ever again worshipping at the temple in Jerusalem.

However Prince Menelik was concerned with the growing apostasy of Israel and the fact that his father, Solomon was now allowing idols to be placed in the Temple to please his pagan wives. King Solomon gave the prince a going-away banquet and after the priests were filled with wine, Menelik and his loyal associates switched arks and left the replica in its place in the Holy of Holies.// (Grant Jeffrey, [page 115, Armageddon, Appointment with Destiny).

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You may also find this to be interesting......

Could there actually be two major Jerusalem third temples in the future?

Dale said:

Many of the theories about the meaning of Revelation and other Biblical prophecies that we see on Christian Forums assume that the Jewish Temple will be rebuilt in Jerusalem. It is possible for Jews to rebuild the Temple. If they do, it will be called the Third Temple. The Temple standing at the time of Christ was the Second Temple. The Jewish Law allows a new Temple to be built, but a Third Temple may not be politically possible. There would be an international backlash. Very few Israelis are interested in the project, either as a matter of national pride, or as a matter of religious practice.

While Israelis could build a new Temple, if they wanted to badly enough, they cannot make a new Ark. The original Ark made at the time of Moses has been lost, it was destroyed. I have run into CF posters who become testy if you say that the Ark no longer exists, but it is settled history. Jeremiah referred to the loss of the Ark.

"In those days, when your numbers have increased greatly in the land,” declares the Lord, “people will no longer say, ‘The ark of the covenant of the Lord.’ It will never enter their minds or be remembered; it will not be missed, nor will another one be made."
Jeremiah 3:16 NIV

Here Jeremiah either predicts the destruction of the Ark, or it has already happened. Jeremiah predicts that memory of the Ark will fade and it will become ancient history. Why didn't the Israelites make a new Ark to replace the one lost to a foreign enemy? Making a new Ark according to the directions laid down in Exodus might seem straightforward. In Exodus 31, God tells Moses that He has chosen Bezalel and Oholiab to make the Ark and other furnishings of the Tabernacle. Bezalel was the master craftsman and Oholiab was his associate, or assistant.

Then the Lord said to Moses, 2 “See, I have chosen Bezalel son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah, 3 and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with wisdom, with understanding, with knowledge and with all kinds of skills— 4 to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver and bronze, 5 to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts. 6 Moreover, I have appointed Oholiab son of Ahisamak, of the tribe of Dan, to help him. Also I have given ability to all the skilled workers to make everything I have commanded you: 7 the tent of meeting, the ark of the covenant law with the atonement cover on it, and all the other furnishings of the tent— 8 the table and its articles, the pure gold lampstand and all its accessories, the altar of incense, 9 the altar of burnt offering and all its utensils, the basin with its stand— 10 and also the woven garments, both the sacred garments for Aaron the priest and the garments for his sons when they serve as priests, 11 and the anointing oil and fragrant incense for the Holy Place. They are to make them just as I commanded you.”
Exodus 31: 1-11 NIV


God commanded that the Ark be made by Bezalel and Oholiab. When these two men passed away, there was no way to follow God's commands in making a new Ark.

What did they use for an Ark in the Second Temple? The Holy of Holies was empty.

As the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia tells us, at the time of Ezekiel:

"There was then no Ark of the Covenant, but Jewish tradition relates that the blood of the great Day of Atonement was sprinkled on an unhewn stone that stood in its place. In Herod's temple ... The holiest place continued empty."
--International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

Link
Holy of Holies in the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia.


Jesus seems to have indirectly referred to the Holy of Holies being an empty room in Matthew 23: 16-22. Here He is criticizing the Pharisees for swearing on the Temple and on the altar in the Temple. He does not mention swearing on the Ark. No one made that mistake because they knew there was no Ark in the Temple.

Where does this leave us? Modern day Jews cannot build another Ark. Jewish scripture doesn't leave any wiggle room, and there is the precedent of the Second Temple. A new Ark wasn't made then, so one won't be made now.

There are several reasons that few Jews are interested in building a new Temple. In Old Testament times, most families owned animals, even if that wasn't their main business. Sacrificing animals at the Temple in gratitude to God, or by way of asking forgiveness, made sense to people. But how many Jews own sheep today? Jews have done without animal sacrifice for almost two thousand years and few want to bring it back.

If it were possible to make a new Ark and place it in a new Temple, that could be a matter of national and religious pride. Without an Ark, it may not be worth the trouble.

Click to expand...

Dale said:

Many of the theories about the meaning of Revelation and other Biblical prophecies that we see on Christian Forums assume that the Jewish Temple will be rebuilt in Jerusalem. It is possible for Jews to rebuild the Temple. If they do, it will be called the Third Temple. The Temple standing at the time of Christ was the Second Temple. The Jewish Law allows a new Temple to be built, but a Third Temple may not be politically possible. There would be an international backlash. Very few Israelis are interested in the project, either as a matter of national pride, or as a matter of religious practice.

While Israelis could build a new Temple, if they wanted to badly enough, they cannot make a new Ark. The original Ark made at the time of Moses has been lost, it was destroyed. I have run into CF posters who become testy if you say that the Ark no longer exists, but it is settled history. Jeremiah referred to the loss of the Ark.

"In those days, when your numbers have increased greatly in the land,” declares the Lord, “people will no longer say, ‘The ark of the covenant of the Lord.’ It will never enter their minds or be remembered; it will not be missed, nor will another one be made."
Jeremiah 3:16 NIV

Here Jeremiah either predicts the destruction of the Ark, or it has already happened. Jeremiah predicts that memory of the Ark will fade and it will become ancient history. Why didn't the Israelites make a new Ark to replace the one lost to a foreign enemy? Making a new Ark according to the directions laid down in Exodus might seem straightforward. In Exodus 31, God tells Moses that He has chosen Bezalel and Oholiab to make the Ark and other furnishings of the Tabernacle. Bezalel was the master craftsman and Oholiab was his associate, or assistant.

Then the Lord said to Moses, 2 “See, I have chosen Bezalel son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah, 3 and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with wisdom, with understanding, with knowledge and with all kinds of skills— 4 to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver and bronze, 5 to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts. 6 Moreover, I have appointed Oholiab son of Ahisamak, of the tribe of Dan, to help him. Also I have given ability to all the skilled workers to make everything I have commanded you: 7 the tent of meeting, the ark of the covenant law with the atonement cover on it, and all the other furnishings of the tent— 8 the table and its articles, the pure gold lampstand and all its accessories, the altar of incense, 9 the altar of burnt offering and all its utensils, the basin with its stand— 10 and also the woven garments, both the sacred garments for Aaron the priest and the garments for his sons when they serve as priests, 11 and the anointing oil and fragrant incense for the Holy Place. They are to make them just as I commanded you.”
Exodus 31: 1-11 NIV


God commanded that the Ark be made by Bezalel and Oholiab. When these two men passed away, there was no way to follow God's commands in making a new Ark.

What did they use for an Ark in the Second Temple? The Holy of Holies was empty.

As the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia tells us, at the time of Ezekiel:

"There was then no Ark of the Covenant, but Jewish tradition relates that the blood of the great Day of Atonement was sprinkled on an unhewn stone that stood in its place. In Herod's temple ... The holiest place continued empty."
--International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

Link
Holy of Holies in the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia.


Jesus seems to have indirectly referred to the Holy of Holies being an empty room in Matthew 23: 16-22. Here He is criticizing the Pharisees for swearing on the Temple and on the altar in the Temple. He does not mention swearing on the Ark. No one made that mistake because they knew there was no Ark in the Temple.

Where does this leave us? Modern day Jews cannot build another Ark. Jewish scripture doesn't leave any wiggle room, and there is the precedent of the Second Temple. A new Ark wasn't made then, so one won't be made now.

There are several reasons that few Jews are interested in building a new Temple. In Old Testament times, most families owned animals, even if that wasn't their main business. Sacrificing animals at the Temple in gratitude to God, or by way of asking forgiveness, made sense to people. But how many Jews own sheep today? Jews have done without animal sacrifice for almost two thousand years and few want to bring it back.

If it were possible to make a new Ark and place it in a new Temple, that could be a matter of national and religious pride. Without an Ark, it may not be worth the trouble.

Click to expand...

Hi I am quite familiar with the passage you quoted in Jer 3 about the ark and a good rule of interpretation is to find the context in the passage.
14 “Return, O backsliding children,” says the LORD; “for I am married to you. I will take you, one from a city and two from a family, and I will bring you to Zion. 15 And I will give you shepherds according to My heart, who will feed you with knowledge and understanding.
16 “Then it shall come to pass, when you are multiplied and increased in the land in those days,” says the LORD, “that they will say no more, ‘The ark of the covenant of the LORD.’ It shall not come to mind, nor shall they remember it, nor shall they visit it, nor shall it be made anymore.
17 “At that time Jerusalem shall be called The Throne of the LORD, and all the nations shall be gathered to it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem. No more shall they follow the dictates of their evil hearts.
18 “In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given as an inheritance to your fathers.

The key context is the day they no longer will be remembered is when Jerusalem is called the throne of the LORD and all nations are gathered to it. When is that? I am a futurist and see the 3rd temple coming and believe it will be the stage for the abomination of desolation to occur in which is also what 2 Thes 2 describes as the man of sin being revealed who will stand in the temple and claim to be a god. This is an interesting verse in Hosea that links the return of the kingdom with the return of the sacrifices. 4 For the children of Israel shall abide many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred pillar, without ephod or teraphim. 5 Afterward the children of Israel shall return and seek the LORD their God and David their king. They shall fear the LORD and His goodness in the latter days.

Now at the end of many days without a sacrifice or king it implies that they will have the sacrifice again. 70AD was the last one and now almost 2000 years later i would think that would count as many days.

The futurist see the 3rd temple coming where the abomination of desolation happens then the anitchrist persecutes the Jews and Christians or anyone who refuses the mark. This guy has exactly 42 months to reign which matches Daniels vision of Ch 9 in the middle of the week the prince who shall come puts an end to the sacrifices. At the end of the 42 months Armageddon and the 2nd coming and Jesus is king over all the earth. Hear He will gather Israel and be king over all the earth and they will no longer follow the dictates of their hearts as they will all be saved and walk with the LORD for the 1000 year kingdom on earth. This is when the ark of covenant will no longer come to mind and when Jerusalem is the established as the throne of the LORD. there are hundreds of passages that taken literally all support this scenario and are congruent.

There are dimensions for a temple given in Ezekiel, a yet unused blueprint.

lismore said:

There are dimensions for a temple given in Ezekiel 40, an unused blueprint. If it's not going to be used, why did God put the blueprint in the bible? To fill up space? Away with replacement theology wallop!

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Replacement Theology.......................

Hebrews 7:12
For being changed/replaced/translated<3346> the Priesthood, out of necessity also, of Law a change/translation<3331> is becoming,

Revelation 1:6
And makes us kings and priests to the God and Father Him. To Him the glory and the might into the ages of the ages. Amen.
Revelation 5:10
And Thou make them kings and priests to our God and we shall be reigning on the land.
========================

THE TRUE "REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY/SUPERSESSIONISM" OF THE BIBLE

Replacement Theology, supersessionism: Christians are God's Jews. The church is true Israel.

You believe in Replacement theology if…

Most churches teach replacement theology so this should be quite easy for you to see…

1. …you believe the Bible when it says Christians are the true Jews today: Romans 2:28-29: "For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God. ", "for we [Christians] are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh, " (Philippians 3:3)
2. …you believe that Israel is the church: "For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. And those who will walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel [church] of God." (Galatians 6:15-16) The peace in this passage is for those who walk according to Christ so CANNOT refer to fleshly/physical Israel that utterly rejects Christ.
3. …you believe Jews must believe in Jesus to be saved and are as lost as Muslims and atheists until they do. (Jn 3:16; Jn 14:6)
4. …you believe the New Testament (second covenant) of Jesus Christ replaced the Old Testament (first covenant) Jer 31:31 + Heb 8:6-13
5. …you believe that keeping both the First and Second covenants at the same time is like a woman married to two men at the same time (Romans 6:1-7)
6. …you believe the body of the Christian is the temple that God dwells in today not some building made of stone, wood or curtains. (1 Cor 3:16; 6:19-20)
7. …you believe the Saturday Sabbath was abolished and Christians worship on the first day of the week (Sunday).
8. …you believe the calendar of 7 Jewish feasts are not to be kept by Christians: Passover (Pesach), Unleavened Bread (Chag Hamotzi), First Fruits (Yom habikkurim), Pentecost (Shavu'ot), Trumpets (Yom Teru'ah), Atonement (Yom Kippur), Tabernacles (Sukkot).
9. …you believe that the entire law of Moses has been abrogated and replaced by the law of Christ and that if you want to keep just one part of the law of Moses, YOU MUST KEEP IT ALL!
10. …if you believe that you do not need to be circumcised to be saved. Acts 15:1-3
11. …if you believe there is no distinction in the mind of God towards all men: Jew or gentile, rich or poor, male or female (Gal 3:28-29)

===================

I. Justin Martyr taught "Replacement theology":
1. Summary of the Replacement theology of Justin Martyr:

a. "Christians are the True Israel" (Justin Martyr, Dialogues, Chapter CXXIII, 130 AD)

b. "As therefore from the one man Jacob, who was surnamed Israel, all your nation has been called Jacob and Israel; so we from Christ, who begat us unto God, (like Jacob, and Israel, and Judah, and Joseph, and David,) are called and are the true sons of God, and keep the commandments of Christ" (Justin Martyr, Dialogues, Chapter CXXIII, 130 AD)

c. "Christ is King of Israel, and Christians are the Israelitic Race. (Justin Martyr, Dialogues, Chapter CXXXV, 130 AD)

d. "As, therefore, Christ is the Israel and the Jacob, even so we, who have been quarried out from the bowels of Christ, are the true Israelitic race." (Justin Martyr, Dialogues, Chapter CXXXV, 130 AD)

e. "For all the nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised in their hearts.' ... But though a man be a Scythian or a Persian, if he has the knowledge of God and of His Christ, and keeps the everlasting righteous decrees, he is circumcised with the good and useful circumcision, and is a friend of God, and God rejoices in his gifts and offerings." (Justin Martyr, Dialogues, Chapter XXVIII, 130 AD)

2. Chapter CXXIII.—Ridiculous Interpretations of the Jews. Christians are the True Israel.

a. "As, therefore, all these latter prophecies refer to Christ and the nations, you should believe that the former refer to Him and them in like manner. For the proselytes have no need of a covenant, if, since there is one and the same law imposed on all that are circumcised, the Scripture speaks about them thus: 'And the stranger shall also be joined with them, and shall be joined to the house of Jacob; ' and because the proselyte, who is circumcised that he may have access to the people, becomes like one of themselves,477 while we who have been deemed worthy to be called a people are yet Gentiles, because we have not been circumcised. Besides, it is ridiculous for you to imagine that the eyes of the proselytes are to be opened while your own are not, and that you be understood as blind and deaf while they are enlightened. And it will be still more ridiculous for you, if you say that the law has been given to the nations, but you have not known it. For you would have stood in awe of God's wrath, and would not have been lawless, wandering sons; being much afraid of hearing God always say, 'Children in whom is no faith. And who are blind, but my servants? and deaf, but they that rule over them? And the servants of God have been made blind. You see often, but have not observed; your ears have been opened, and you have not heard.' Is God's commendation of you honourable? and is God's testimony seemly for His servants? You are not ashamed though you often hear these words. You do not tremble at God's threats, for you are a people foolish and hard-hearted. 'Therefore, behold, I will proceed to remove this people, 'saith the Lord; 'and I will remove them, and destroy the wisdom of the wise, and hide the understanding of the prudent.' Deservedly too: for you are neither wise nor prudent, but crafty and unscrupulous; wise only to do evil, but utterly incompetent to know the hidden counsel of God, or the faithful covenant of the Lord, or to find out the everlasting paths. 'Therefore, saith the Lord, I will raise up to Israel and to Judah the seed of men and the seed of beasts.' And by Isaiah He speaks thus concerning another Israel: 'In that day shall there be a third Israel among the Assyrians and the Egyptians, blessed in the land which the Lord of Sabaoth hath blessed, saying, blessed shall my people in Egypt and in Assyria be, and Israel mine inheritance.' Since then God blesses this people, and calls them Israel, and declares them to be His inheritance, how is it that you repent not of the deception you practise on yourselves, as if you alone were the Israel, and of execrating the people whom God has blessed? For when He speaks to Jerusalem and its environs, He thus added: 'And I will beget men upon you, even my people Israel; and they shall inherit you, and you shall be a possession for them; and you shall be no longer bereaved of them.' " "What, then?"says Trypho; "are you Israel? and speaks He such things of you?"If, indeed," I replied to him, "we had not entered into a lengthy discussion on these topics, I might have doubted whether you ask this question in ignorance; but since we have brought the matter to a conclusion by demonstration and with your assent, I do not believe that you are ignorant of what I have just said, or desire again mere contention, but that you are urging me to exhibit the same proof to these men." And in compliance with the assent expressed in his eyes, I continued: "Again in Isaiah, if you have ears to hear it, God, speaking of Christ in parable, calls Him Jacob and Israel. He speaks thus: 'Jacob is my servant, I will uphold Him; Israel is mine elect, I will put my Spirit upon Him, and He shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not strive, nor cry, neither shall any one hear His voice in the street: a bruised reed He shall not break, and smoking flax He shall not quench; but He shall bring forth judgment to truth: He shall shine, and shall not be broken till He have set judgment on the earth. And in His name shall the Gentiles trust.'485 As therefore from the one man Jacob, who was surnamed Israel, all your nation has been called Jacob and Israel; so we from Christ, who begat us unto God, like Jacob, and Israel, and Judah, and Joseph, and David, are called and are the true sons of God, and keep the commandments of Christ.".....................................

BABerean2 said:

Do you understand counterfeiting, and deception?
Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
.

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Good verses............

Jhn 8:44
“Ye are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
Matthew 23:33
"Serpents! offspring of vipers!
how? ye may be fleeing from the judging<2920> of the Gehenna <1067>

Revelation 2:10 "tribulation 10 days"

LittleLambofJesus said:

Is the 10 days in this passage a literal 10 days or symbolic of some other amount of time? Thanks
.

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Revelation 2:10
No yet one thou be fearing! which-things thou are being about to be suffering
Behold! the Devil is being about to be casting ye into a prison<5438>, that ye may be being tried.
And ye shall be having Tribulation<2347> of ten days,
Be thou becoming faithful until death! and I shall be giving to thee the Crown of Life.

James 1:12
Blessed is the man who endures trials;
for when he has been approved, he will receive the Crown of Life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.

lismore said:

There are dimensions for a temple given in Ezekiel, a yet unused blueprint.

Click to expand...

Very true indeed and.....

"The Sacrificial System Will Continue

One of the most perplexing ideas to students of Scripture is the idea that God intends that the annual feasts, along with animal sacrifice, will continue into the Millennium. Many Christians who have studied the prophetic portions of Zechariah 14, Isaiah 66, and Ezekiel 40 - 48, which clearly describe these Millennial worship ordinations, are confused by the idea. They ask, "Didn't the sacrifice of Christ eliminate animal sacrifices forever?"

............"Only the complete sacrifice of Jesus could ever totally atone for our sins. However, God clearly demanded the sacrifices from Adam to Christ. Those sacrifices were acts of obedience to the direct command of God, as well as acknowledgements of one's own personal sinfulness and need for God's forgiveness. Animal sacrifices covered the sins of the people temporarily until the prophesied Messiah would come and offer Himself once and for all as the necessary atonement for sin. If animal sacrifice can never atone for sin, why would God allow Israel to resume such sacrifice in the Third Temple, prior to Armageddon, and then demand that Israel continue such sacrifice in the Millennium? There are two reasons why I believe this is true."

First, the early Jewish - Christian Church continued to offer sacrifices in the first century.".......



.......Second, New Testament writers used the legal sacrificial system to illustrate very important points concerning Christ's sacrifice on the Cross.......

..... These examples of the way early Jewish believers used God's law to teach great love when He sacrificed His only Son on the cross will be repeated during the Millennium." (Grant R. Jeffrey, Messiah, War in the Middle East and the Road to Armageddon, page 317, 318 and 319)

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and.....


Should Christians support Rebuilding of Jerusalem Third Temple.

Dale said:

Many of the theories about the meaning of Revelation and other Biblical prophecies that we see on Christian Forums assume that the Jewish Temple will be rebuilt in Jerusalem. It is possible for Jews to rebuild the Temple. If they do, it will be called the Third Temple. The Temple standing at the time of Christ was the Second Temple. The Jewish Law allows a new Temple to be built, but a Third Temple may not be politically possible. There would be an international backlash. Very few Israelis are interested in the project, either as a matter of national pride, or as a matter of religious practice.

While Israelis could build a new Temple, if they wanted to badly enough, they cannot make a new Ark. The original Ark made at the time of Moses has been lost, it was destroyed. I have run into CF posters who become testy if you say that the Ark no longer exists, but it is settled history. Jeremiah referred to the loss of the Ark.

"In those days, when your numbers have increased greatly in the land,” declares the Lord, “people will no longer say, ‘The ark of the covenant of the Lord.’ It will never enter their minds or be remembered; it will not be missed, nor will another one be made."
Jeremiah 3:16 NIV

Here Jeremiah either predicts the destruction of the Ark, or it has already happened. Jeremiah predicts that memory of the Ark will fade and it will become ancient history. Why didn't the Israelites make a new Ark to replace the one lost to a foreign enemy? Making a new Ark according to the directions laid down in Exodus might seem straightforward. In Exodus 31, God tells Moses that He has chosen Bezalel and Oholiab to make the Ark and other furnishings of the Tabernacle. Bezalel was the master craftsman and Oholiab was his associate, or assistant.

Then the Lord said to Moses, 2 “See, I have chosen Bezalel son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah, 3 and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with wisdom, with understanding, with knowledge and with all kinds of skills— 4 to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver and bronze, 5 to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts. 6 Moreover, I have appointed Oholiab son of Ahisamak, of the tribe of Dan, to help him. Also I have given ability to all the skilled workers to make everything I have commanded you: 7 the tent of meeting, the ark of the covenant law with the atonement cover on it, and all the other furnishings of the tent— 8 the table and its articles, the pure gold lampstand and all its accessories, the altar of incense, 9 the altar of burnt offering and all its utensils, the basin with its stand— 10 and also the woven garments, both the sacred garments for Aaron the priest and the garments for his sons when they serve as priests, 11 and the anointing oil and fragrant incense for the Holy Place. They are to make them just as I commanded you.”
Exodus 31: 1-11 NIV


God commanded that the Ark be made by Bezalel and Oholiab. When these two men passed away, there was no way to follow God's commands in making a new Ark.

What did they use for an Ark in the Second Temple? The Holy of Holies was empty.

As the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia tells us, at the time of Ezekiel:

"There was then no Ark of the Covenant, but Jewish tradition relates that the blood of the great Day of Atonement was sprinkled on an unhewn stone that stood in its place. In Herod's temple ... The holiest place continued empty."
--International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

Link
Holy of Holies in the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia.


Jesus seems to have indirectly referred to the Holy of Holies being an empty room in Matthew 23: 16-22. Here He is criticizing the Pharisees for swearing on the Temple and on the altar in the Temple. He does not mention swearing on the Ark. No one made that mistake because they knew there was no Ark in the Temple.

Where does this leave us? Modern day Jews cannot build another Ark. Jewish scripture doesn't leave any wiggle room, and there is the precedent of the Second Temple. A new Ark wasn't made then, so one won't be made now.

There are several reasons that few Jews are interested in building a new Temple. In Old Testament times, most families owned animals, even if that wasn't their main business. Sacrificing animals at the Temple in gratitude to God, or by way of asking forgiveness, made sense to people. But how many Jews own sheep today? Jews have done without animal sacrifice for almost two thousand years and few want to bring it back.

If it were possible to make a new Ark and place it in a new Temple, that could be a matter of national and religious pride. Without an Ark, it may not be worth the trouble.

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When Israel took all of Jerusalem, and the West Bank during the six day war in 1967, the Chief Rabbi of the IDF asked that a sufficient charge of C4 (explosive) be placed under the Dome of The Rock, and The Al Axa (spelled wrong) Mosque to destroy them. There was some consideration, but it never happened.

Israel had already defeated all the surrounding Arab Armies, the time to do it was then. I can't see another opportunity, in the next few years.

Once the world allows Iran to get a nuclear weapon, then perhaps they will do it.

Silverback said:

When Israel took all of Jerusalem, and the West Bank during the six day war in 1967, the Chief Rabbi of the IDF asked that a sufficient charge of C4 (explosive) be placed under the Dome of The Rock, and The Al Axa (spelled wrong) Mosque to destroy them. There was some consideration, but it never happened.

Israel had already defeated all the surrounding Arab Armies, the time to do it was then. I can't see another opportunity, in the next few years.

Once the world allows Iran to get a nuclear weapon, then perhaps they will do it.

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There is no need to......
powerful evidence exists that the Holy of Holies was over the Gihon Spring that is a nice distance from either the Al Aqsa Mosque and / or the Dome of the Rock......


Ernest L. Martin - Wikipedia

In his 1999 book The Temples that Jerusalem Forgot, Martin argued that the Haram al-Sharif is not the location of the last Temple. This was significant given his relationship with Herbert W. Armstrong whose editorial in The Plain Truth magazine was cited by Denis Michael Rohan as a reason for setting fire to the Al Aqsa mosque during the 1960s.

The basis of this work began with Martin's first visit to Jerusalem in 1961 when he first met Benjamin Mazar and later his son Ory Mazar, who informed him of his belief that the Temples of Solomon and Zerubbabel were located on the Ophel mound to the north of the original Mount Zion on the southeast ridge. In a 1996 draft report to support this theory, Martin wrote, "I was then under the impression that Simon the Hasmonean (along with Herod a century later) moved the Temple from the Ophel mound to the Dome of the Rock area." However, after studying the words of Josephus concerning the Temple of Herod the Great, which was reported to be in the same general area of the former Temples, he then read the account of Eleazar who led the final contingent of Jewish resistance to the Romans at Masada which stated that the Roman fortress was the only structure left by 73 C.E.. "With this key in mind, I came to the conclusion in 1997 that all the Temples were indeed located on the Ophel mound over the area of the Gihon Spring."[4] From these conclusions, Martin produced his book in which he asserted that the Temples of Jerusalem were located over the Gihon Spring and not over the Dome of the Rock. He wrote, "What has been amazing to me is the vast amount of Jewish, Muslim, and Christian records that remain available from the first to the sixteenth centuries that clearly vindicate the conclusions that I have reached in this book of research."

His other works are Restoring the Original Bible (1984), Secrets of Golgotha (1987), 101 Bible Secrets (1991), The Biblical Manual (1985) and The Essentials of New Testament Doctrine (1999).

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DennisTate said:

There is no need to......
powerful evidence exists that the Holy of Holies was over the Gihon Spring that is a nice distance from either the Al Aqsa Mosque and / or the Dome of the Rock......

Ernest L. Martin - Wikipedia

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Interesting.......

Proof: The Temple Mount is Not @ Dome of the Rock

Do the pictures posted below depict the correct location of the Gold Dome and Western Wall?
======================
The Strange Story of the False Wailing Wall

There is absolute proof that the present site of the Jewish "Wailing Wall" in Jerusalem is NOT any part of the Temple that existed in the time of Herod and Jesus. In fact, that particular location that the Jewish authorities have accepted represents the Western Wall of an early Roman fortress (finally built and enlarged by Herod the Great). King Herod called it Fort Antonia, after the famous Mark Anthony who lived at the end of the first century before Christ.

But how did the present "Wailing Wall" get erroneously selected by the Jewish authorities as a holy place for the Jews? ...................

Deut 28:66 "and becomes lives of thee being hung to thee from in front of, and thou art afraid night and by day, and not thou be sure in lives of thee. 67 In morning thou sayest 'who shall give evening' and in evening thou shalt say 'who shall give morning'. From awe of heart of thee which thou shalt fear and from sight[roman army/gold dome?] of eyes of thee which thou shalt see"
===============
Aerial view
best aerial view of dome of the rock pictures - Google Search

BABerean2 said:

Go to time 28:00 in the following video and listen for the lie.

One of these men claims to be a follower of Christ. However, the other is an Orthodox Jew. They are both working to rebuild a temple.

These two claim Josephus said the Roman fort was taken down to nothing, even though we know the Romans were using the fort as a base on the day the temple was destroyed.

Did the Romans destroy part of the foundation of the fort to gain access? Yes.
Did they destroy the whole fort? No.


.

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The 3rd Temple shall be built beside Dome of the Rock

Dale said:

assume that the Jewish Temple will be rebuilt in Jerusalem

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I doubt that any current members of Israel's parliament want a temple and I can't imagine that any Jews want to restart the sacrifices. There are millions of Jewish people in Israel's borders. The number of animals that would need to be sacrificed on one day at Passover could not be handled in any conceivable temple even if it had a huge slaughter house attached. The whole thing is absurd. Much of the dispensationalist system is fundamentally absurd. It's a wonder that anyone believes it. Take a few moments to think it through and its absurdity becomes evident.

GingerBeer said:

I doubt that any current members of Israel's parliament want a temple and I can't imagine that any Jews want to restart the sacrifices. There are millions of Jewish people in Israel's borders. The number of animals that would need to be sacrificed on one day at Passover could not be handled in any conceivable temple even if it had a huge slaughter house attached. The whole thing is absurd. Much of the dispensationalist system is fundamentally absurd. It's a wonder that anyone believes it. Take a few moments to think it through and its absurdity becomes evident.

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But the current Jewish State of Israel will cease to exist on the Day of the Lord's fiery wrath. Zephaniah 1:14-18, Amos 2:4-5, Isaiah 22:14, Jeremiah 12:14, +
It will be the holy people of God, every faithful Christian, who will build the new Temple.
It is our destiny and our privilege.

keras said:

But the current Jewish State of Israel will cease to exist on the Day of the Lord's fiery wrath. Zephaniah 1:14-18, Amos 2:4-5, Isaiah 22:14, Jeremiah 12:14, +
It will be the holy people of God, every faithful Christian, who will build the new Temple.
It is our destiny and our privilege.

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So there will be a few of you, less than a million?

GingerBeer said:

So there will be a few of you, less than a million?

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No; many millions, a vast multitude, John see us in Jerusalem and the holy Land; Revelation 7:9, paralleled by Isaiah 66:18b-21
WE will occupy all that area given to Abraham, from the Nile to the Euphrates.

Dale said:

Keras,

You cite Zechariah Chapter 14 as evidence that Christians will build a new Temple in Jerusalem. Actually, the word "temple" doesn't appear in Zechariah 14: 15-21. It does say that nations formerly at war with Israel will go to Jerusalem to keep the Feast of Booths. However, Jews today keep the Feast of Booths without any need of a Temple for this festival.

Supposing the Ark is in a cave on Mt. Nebo, what then? Mt. Nebo is in Jordan. If Israel wanted to search Mt. Nebo, looking for the Ark, with the intent of building a new Jewish Temple on the Temple Mount, Jordan would certainly oppose the project. Jordan wouldn't allow the search to take place. .

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There will be a new Temple, Ezekiel 40 to 46 is proof enough.
Zechariah 14:20 tells about the House of the Lord, where the Altar is. None other than the new Temple.
The Ark of the Covenant: there was an Ark, it was in Solomons Temple, then when the Babylonians conquered, it wasn't there any more. The Bible is silent about it, but the Maccabee's reference is quite probable for what happened to it and the rest of the Temple objects.
You see disaster approaching; what do you do with your treasures? Hide them! Just what the Israelites did, but according to God's plan, waiting for the Day when His faithful Christian people will migrate to live in His Land, being the people God always wanted there, but has never yet had. His witnesses, Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27 amd Hos Light to the nations, Isaiah 49:3-8, Matthew 5:14-16
The Temple will be built to God's glory and the Shekinah Glory will come, Ezekiel 43:1-4, into the Holy of Holies, where the original Ark will be.

Jordan will no longer be a nation then; Ezekiel 25:1-7, Amos 1:13-15, Jeremiah 49:1-2

keras said:

No; many millions, a vast multitude, John see us in Jerusalem and the holy Land; Revelation 7:9, paralleled by Isaiah 66:18b-21
WE will occupy all that area given to Abraham, from the Nile to the Euphrates.

Click to expand...

So on Passover lamb sacrifice day how are all those lambs going to be sacrificed on one day during the prescribed hours for many millions of people in the new temple? I do not think a slaughterhouse big enough could be built. It would need to be capable of processing a million or more lambs in a few hours on one day. That's probably impossible to do. The whole idea of renewed sacrifices makes the new temple an absurd idea and what's the point of a temple with sacrificial altar and basin (the molten sea) if not to offer animal sacrifices to God?

Dale said:

Many of the theories about the meaning of Revelation and other Biblical prophecies that we see on Christian Forums assume that the Jewish Temple will be rebuilt in Jerusalem. It is possible for Jews to rebuild the Temple. If they do, it will be called the Third Temple. The Temple standing at the time of Christ was the Second Temple. The Jewish Law allows a new Temple to be built, but a Third Temple may not be politically possible. There would be an international backlash. Very few Israelis are interested in the project, either as a matter of national pride, or as a matter of religious practice.

While Israelis could build a new Temple, if they wanted to badly enough, they cannot make a new Ark. The original Ark made at the time of Moses has been lost, it was destroyed. I have run into CF posters who become testy if you say that the Ark no longer exists, but it is settled history. Jeremiah referred to the loss of the Ark.

"In those days, when your numbers have increased greatly in the land,” declares the Lord, “people will no longer say, ‘The ark of the covenant of the Lord.’ It will never enter their minds or be remembered; it will not be missed, nor will another one be made."
Jeremiah 3:16 NIV

Here Jeremiah either predicts the destruction of the Ark, or it has already happened. Jeremiah predicts that memory of the Ark will fade and it will become ancient history. Why didn't the Israelites make a new Ark to replace the one lost to a foreign enemy? Making a new Ark according to the directions laid down in Exodus might seem straightforward. In Exodus 31, God tells Moses that He has chosen Bezalel and Oholiab to make the Ark and other furnishings of the Tabernacle. Bezalel was the master craftsman and Oholiab was his associate, or assistant.

Then the Lord said to Moses, 2 “See, I have chosen Bezalel son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah, 3 and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with wisdom, with understanding, with knowledge and with all kinds of skills— 4 to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver and bronze, 5 to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts. 6 Moreover, I have appointed Oholiab son of Ahisamak, of the tribe of Dan, to help him. Also I have given ability to all the skilled workers to make everything I have commanded you: 7 the tent of meeting, the ark of the covenant law with the atonement cover on it, and all the other furnishings of the tent— 8 the table and its articles, the pure gold lampstand and all its accessories, the altar of incense, 9 the altar of burnt offering and all its utensils, the basin with its stand— 10 and also the woven garments, both the sacred garments for Aaron the priest and the garments for his sons when they serve as priests, 11 and the anointing oil and fragrant incense for the Holy Place. They are to make them just as I commanded you.”
Exodus 31: 1-11 NIV


God commanded that the Ark be made by Bezalel and Oholiab. When these two men passed away, there was no way to follow God's commands in making a new Ark.

What did they use for an Ark in the Second Temple? The Holy of Holies was empty.

As the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia tells us, at the time of Ezekiel:

"There was then no Ark of the Covenant, but Jewish tradition relates that the blood of the great Day of Atonement was sprinkled on an unhewn stone that stood in its place. In Herod's temple ... The holiest place continued empty."
--International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

Link
Holy of Holies in the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia.


Jesus seems to have indirectly referred to the Holy of Holies being an empty room in Matthew 23: 16-22. Here He is criticizing the Pharisees for swearing on the Temple and on the altar in the Temple. He does not mention swearing on the Ark. No one made that mistake because they knew there was no Ark in the Temple.

Where does this leave us? Modern day Jews cannot build another Ark. Jewish scripture doesn't leave any wiggle room, and there is the precedent of the Second Temple. A new Ark wasn't made then, so one won't be made now.

There are several reasons that few Jews are interested in building a new Temple. In Old Testament times, most families owned animals, even if that wasn't their main business. Sacrificing animals at the Temple in gratitude to God, or by way of asking forgiveness, made sense to people. But how many Jews own sheep today? Jews have done without animal sacrifice for almost two thousand years and few want to bring it back.

If it were possible to make a new Ark and place it in a new Temple, that could be a matter of national and religious pride. Without an Ark, it may not be worth the trouble.

Click to expand...

They used a Torah ark in their synagogues. There is a stone carving depicting one at the Byzantine synagogue at Capernaum. Jews are allowed to walk half a mile on the Sabbath to go to a synagogue. The Jewish apostles went to synagogues to teach about Jesus.

The Dome of the Rock is on Mt. Moriah above the Western Wall where the temple used to be. The Muslims own this land. Israel is surrounded by Muslims on three sides. They have been threatened with jihad.

Christians outlawed sacrificial worship. The scriptures states, “I desired mercy and not sacrifice.” Hosea 6:6, Matthew 9:13