Israel Can't Make a New Ark for a New Temple

[Dale]

Many of the theories about the meaning of Revelation and other Biblical prophecies that we see on Christian Forums assume that the Jewish Temple will be rebuilt in Jerusalem. It is possible for Jews to rebuild the Temple. If they do, it will be called the Third Temple. The Temple standing at the time of Christ was the Second Temple. The Jewish Law allows a new Temple to be built, but a Third Temple may not be politically possible. There would be an international backlash. Very few Israelis are interested in the project, either as a matter of national pride, or as a matter of religious practice.

While Israelis could build a new Temple, if they wanted to badly enough, they cannot make a new Ark. The original Ark made at the time of Moses has been lost, it was destroyed. I have run into CF posters who become testy if you say that the Ark no longer exists, but it is settled history. Jeremiah referred to the loss of the Ark.

"In those days, when your numbers have increased greatly in the land,” declares the Lord, “people will no longer say, ‘The ark of the covenant of the Lord.’ It will never enter their minds or be remembered; it will not be missed, nor will another one be made."
Jeremiah 3:16 NIV

Here Jeremiah either predicts the destruction of the Ark, or it has already happened. Jeremiah predicts that memory of the Ark will fade and it will become ancient history. Why didn't the Israelites make a new Ark to replace the one lost to a foreign enemy? Making a new Ark according to the directions laid down in Exodus might seem straightforward. In Exodus 31, God tells Moses that He has chosen Bezalel and Oholiab to make the Ark and other furnishings of the Tabernacle. Bezalel was the master craftsman and Oholiab was his associate, or assistant.

Then the Lord said to Moses, 2 “See, I have chosen Bezalel son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah, 3 and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with wisdom, with understanding, with knowledge and with all kinds of skills— 4 to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver and bronze, 5 to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts. 6 Moreover, I have appointed Oholiab son of Ahisamak, of the tribe of Dan, to help him. Also I have given ability to all the skilled workers to make everything I have commanded you: 7 the tent of meeting, the ark of the covenant law with the atonement cover on it, and all the other furnishings of the tent— 8 the table and its articles, the pure gold lampstand and all its accessories, the altar of incense, 9 the altar of burnt offering and all its utensils, the basin with its stand— 10 and also the woven garments, both the sacred garments for Aaron the priest and the garments for his sons when they serve as priests, 11 and the anointing oil and fragrant incense for the Holy Place. They are to make them just as I commanded you.”
Exodus 31: 1-11 NIV


God commanded that the Ark be made by Bezalel and Oholiab. When these two men passed away, there was no way to follow God's commands in making a new Ark.

What did they use for an Ark in the Second Temple? The Holy of Holies was empty.

As the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia tells us, at the time of Ezekiel:

"There was then no Ark of the Covenant, but Jewish tradition relates that the blood of the great Day of Atonement was sprinkled on an unhewn stone that stood in its place. In Herod's temple ... The holiest place continued empty."
--International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

Link
Holy of Holies in the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia.


Jesus seems to have indirectly referred to the Holy of Holies being an empty room in Matthew 23: 16-22. Here He is criticizing the Pharisees for swearing on the Temple and on the altar in the Temple. He does not mention swearing on the Ark. No one made that mistake because they knew there was no Ark in the Temple.

Where does this leave us? Modern day Jews cannot build another Ark. Jewish scripture doesn't leave any wiggle room, and there is the precedent of the Second Temple. A new Ark wasn't made then, so one won't be made now.

There are several reasons that few Jews are interested in building a new Temple. In Old Testament times, most families owned animals, even if that wasn't their main business. Sacrificing animals at the Temple in gratitude to God, or by way of asking forgiveness, made sense to people. But how many Jews own sheep today? Jews have done without animal sacrifice for almost two thousand years and few want to bring it back.

If it were possible to make a new Ark and place it in a new Temple, that could be a matter of national and religious pride. Without an Ark, it may not be worth the trouble.

 

[Dale]

Here is another source on the Second Temple not having the original Ark or any other Ark.
Emphasis added.

Quote

Some of the original artifacts from the Temple of Solomon are not mentioned in the sources after its destruction in 597 BCE, and are presumed lost. The Second Temple lacked the following holy articles:

The Ark of the Covenant containing the Tablets of Stone, before which were placed the pot of manna and Aaron's rod

• The Urim and Thummim (divination objects contained in the Hoshen)
• The holy oil
• The sacred fire.

In the Second Temple, the Kodesh Hakodashim (Holy of Holies) was separated by curtains rather than a wall as in the First Temple. Still, as in the Tabernacle, the Second Temple included:

• The Menorah (golden lamp) for the Hekhal
• The Table of Showbread
• The golden altar of incense, with golden censers.
• According to the Mishnah (Middot iii. 6), the "Foundation Stone" stood where the Ark used to be, and the High Priest put his censer on it on Yom Kippur.
  

The Second Temple also included many of the original vessels of gold that had been taken by the Babylonians but restored by Cyrus the Great. According to the Babylonian Talmud (Yoma 22b), however, the Temple lacked the Shekinah, the dwelling or settling divine presence of God, and the Ruach HaKodesh, the Spirit of Holiness, present in the first.

End Quote

Link
TheJewish Temples

 

[tampasteve]

I am pretty confident that the lack of the Ark is not the driving issue for most Jewish people. They mostly all believe that the second Temple did not have the Ark, so a third would not need it either. I agree overall with what you have written, but I am not sure what you are driving at. Most Jewish people either believe the religion has grown past the need for a Temple, and indeed the synagogue has replaced it (such as Reform Judaism) or believe that a Temple should be rebuilt, but that the Messiah will need to be the one to do this (such as in most Orthodox Jews) because of a number of reasons.

 

[bèlla]

Have you ascertained their interest through firsthand discussions? Or is your idea based on something you’ve read or heard elsewhere?

 

[TreWalker]

Have you ascertained their interest through firsthand discussions? Or is your idea based on something you’ve read or heard elsewhere?

Exactly. It's merely anecdotal pondering. I kept seeing what Jews are supposed to believe or stand for without personal understanding of the actual communities.

 

[TreWalker]

The Jewish Law allows a new Temple to be built, but a Third Temple may not be politically possible. There would be an international backlash. Very few Israelis are interested in the project, either as a matter of national pride, or as a matter of religious practice.

With Hashem all things are possible.

Jews have done without animal sacrifice for almost two thousand years

See?
Israel’s rejection of the Torah (or our Messiah) does not result in God’s rejection of Israel as the chosen people. In the end they will return. And that will result in greater riches and life from the dead. There is a time coming when the Jewish people will return to the Torah, and receive their Messiah. In fact it has already begun. Messianic Judaism is evidence of this.

 

[Dale]

Have you ascertained their interest through firsthand discussions? Or is your idea based on something you’ve read or heard elsewhere?

I look at newspapers from Israel almost every day. Israel does have religious political parties, Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox but rebuilding the Temple isn't part of their platform. If even the Ultra-Orthodox aren't interested in rebuilding the Temple, then it won't happen.

 

[Dale]

I am pretty confident that the lack of the Ark is not the driving issue for most Jewish people. They mostly all believe that the second Temple did not have the Ark, so a third would not need it either. I agree overall with what you have written, but I am not sure what you are driving at. Most Jewish people either believe the religion has grown past the need for a Temple, and indeed the synagogue has replaced it (such as Reform Judaism) or believe that a Temple should be rebuilt, but that the Messiah will need to be the one to do this (such as in most Orthodox Jews) because of a number of reasons.

You mentioned something of considerable importance in your post. Religious Jews usually believe that the coming Messiah would have to be the one to rebuild the Temple. They do not feel competent to tackle the project themselves, the initiative has to come from God. That's why the rebuilding of the Temple is something that probably won't happen.

 

[TreWalker]

I look at newspapers from Israel almost every day. Israel does have religious political parties, Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox but rebuilding the Temple isn't part of their platform. If even the Ultra-Orthodox aren't interested in rebuilding the Temple, then it won't happen.

The orthodox are not a political party in and of themselves, they are religious sects within Israel. The Shaas party promotes religious conservatism and Mizrahi ultra's interests. They are against Jews being on the Temple mount because they don't know exactly where it is, which causes them angst about clean and unclean land, and priests. Can't put the Temple on a grave....

If you read the news you'd be aware that the current Israeli elections are unprecedented. The Shaas are loosing power and Yisrael Beiteinu (Avigdor Lieberman) is threatening to shift his support to the Blue and White leaving Likud hanging and floundering for seats.

The only thing I can agree with is that the Zehut (those who desire the temple rebuilt) has little chance of being supported in the current elections. But after a war with Iran which is highly probable who knows who will be left standing.

 

[tampasteve]

You mentioned something of considerable importance in your post. Religious Jews usually believe that the coming Messiah would have to be the one to rebuild the Temple. They do not feel competent to tackle the project themselves, the initiative has to come from God. That's why the rebuilding of the Temple is something that probably won't happen.

As a side bar, it is not really accurate to imply that Reform Jews are not "religious". While their take on Judaism may differ from Orthodox, many are certainly "religious Jews". Otherwise yes, I am of the stance that the Temple will not be build until the Messiach (Yeshua) comes.

 

[BABerean2]

While Israelis could build a new Temple, if they wanted to badly enough, they cannot make a new Ark.

Do you understand counterfeiting, and deception?

Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

.

 

[TreWalker]

As a side bar, it is not really accurate to imply that Reform Jews are not "religious". While their take on Judaism may differ from Orthodox, many are certainly "religious Jews". Otherwise yes, I am of the stance that the Temple will not be build until the Messiach (Yeshua) comes.

Agreed, yet I find it very interesting how other Jews contemplate this. Some believe the third temple is already built and in heaven waiting to come down. And some believe if Hashem waits long enough it means he desires human effort to bring it about. An interesting read Which comes first; Messiah or the Temple

 

[Dale]

As a side bar, it is not really accurate to imply that Reform Jews are not "religious". While their take on Judaism may differ from Orthodox, many are certainly "religious Jews". Otherwise yes, I am of the stance that the Temple will not be build until the Messiach (Yeshua) comes.

I did not mean to imply that Reform Jews are not religious. I was contrasting the religious Jews in Israel with secular Jews in Israel. Secular Jews certainly are not interested in building a new Temple.

 

[keras]

The Ark and the other Temple furnishings were hidden by Jeremiah, as recorded in 2 Maccabees 2:4-8.....hidden in a cave near Mt Nebo. In the latter days the Lord will show His people where they are and they will adorn the new Temple.

Many prophesies confirm the new Temple, to be built by the Lord's faithful Christian peoples, His Israelites from every race, nation and language.
After Jesus Returns, people from all the nations will come to worship King Jesus there. Zechariah 14:16-21

 

[BABerean2]

Many prophesies confirm the new Temple, to be built by the Lord's faithful Christian peoples, His Israelites from every race, nation and language.

That temple is found below, and is described by a man who visited the 2nd Jewish temple.

1Pe 2:4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
1Pe 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
1Pe 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
1Pe 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

.

 

[keras]

That temple is found below, and is described by a man who visited the 2nd Jewish temple.

The fact that we Christians are the 'living Temple' of God during this Church age, is correct.
This truth does not preclude a future physical Temple, God wanted 2 Temples in the past and He does not change.
Paul made it perfectly clear in 2 Thess 2:4, that there has to be a new Temple in Jerusalem before Jesus Returns.

 

[Andrewn]

In the latter days the Lord will show His people where they are and they will adorn the new Temple. Many prophesies confirm the new Temple, to be built by the Lord's faithful Christian peoples, His Israelites from every race, nation and language.

Isn't what you wrote against the Bible?

Rev 21:22 I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

Paul made it perfectly clear in 2 Thess 2:4, that there has to be a new Temple in Jerusalem before Jesus Returns.

I think there is enough evidence in the NT that the new Temple is the Church.

 

[keras]

Isn't what you wrote against the Bible?

Rev 21:22 I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

Rev 21:22 will happen after the Millennium.
What I write, I support with scripture.

I think there is enough evidence in the NT that the new Temple is the Church.

Correct, for now; we Christians are the Spiritual Temple of God.

But there will be a physical Temple in Jerusalem, before Jesus Returns. The Anti-Christ will sit in it and declare himself to be god.

 

[klutedavid]

Many of the theories about the meaning of Revelation and other Biblical prophecies that we see on Christian Forums assume that the Jewish Temple will be rebuilt in Jerusalem. It is possible for Jews to rebuild the Temple. If they do, it will be called the Third Temple. The Temple standing at the time of Christ was the Second Temple. The Jewish Law allows a new Temple to be built, but a Third Temple may not be politically possible. There would be an international backlash. Very few Israelis are interested in the project, either as a matter of national pride, or as a matter of religious practice.

While Israelis could build a new Temple, if they wanted to badly enough, they cannot make a new Ark. The original Ark made at the time of Moses has been lost, it was destroyed. I have run into CF posters who become testy if you say that the Ark no longer exists, but it is settled history. Jeremiah referred to the loss of the Ark.

"In those days, when your numbers have increased greatly in the land,” declares the Lord, “people will no longer say, ‘The ark of the covenant of the Lord.’ It will never enter their minds or be remembered; it will not be missed, nor will another one be made."
Jeremiah 3:16 NIV

Here Jeremiah either predicts the destruction of the Ark, or it has already happened. Jeremiah predicts that memory of the Ark will fade and it will become ancient history. Why didn't the Israelites make a new Ark to replace the one lost to a foreign enemy? Making a new Ark according to the directions laid down in Exodus might seem straightforward. In Exodus 31, God tells Moses that He has chosen Bezalel and Oholiab to make the Ark and other furnishings of the Tabernacle. Bezalel was the master craftsman and Oholiab was his associate, or assistant.

Then the Lord said to Moses, 2 “See, I have chosen Bezalel son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah, 3 and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with wisdom, with understanding, with knowledge and with all kinds of skills— 4 to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver and bronze, 5 to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts. 6 Moreover, I have appointed Oholiab son of Ahisamak, of the tribe of Dan, to help him. Also I have given ability to all the skilled workers to make everything I have commanded you: 7 the tent of meeting, the ark of the covenant law with the atonement cover on it, and all the other furnishings of the tent— 8 the table and its articles, the pure gold lampstand and all its accessories, the altar of incense, 9 the altar of burnt offering and all its utensils, the basin with its stand— 10 and also the woven garments, both the sacred garments for Aaron the priest and the garments for his sons when they serve as priests, 11 and the anointing oil and fragrant incense for the Holy Place. They are to make them just as I commanded you.”
Exodus 31: 1-11 NIV


God commanded that the Ark be made by Bezalel and Oholiab. When these two men passed away, there was no way to follow God's commands in making a new Ark.

What did they use for an Ark in the Second Temple? The Holy of Holies was empty.

As the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia tells us, at the time of Ezekiel:

"There was then no Ark of the Covenant, but Jewish tradition relates that the blood of the great Day of Atonement was sprinkled on an unhewn stone that stood in its place. In Herod's temple ... The holiest place continued empty."
--International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

Link
Holy of Holies in the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia.


Jesus seems to have indirectly referred to the Holy of Holies being an empty room in Matthew 23: 16-22. Here He is criticizing the Pharisees for swearing on the Temple and on the altar in the Temple. He does not mention swearing on the Ark. No one made that mistake because they knew there was no Ark in the Temple.

Where does this leave us? Modern day Jews cannot build another Ark. Jewish scripture doesn't leave any wiggle room, and there is the precedent of the Second Temple. A new Ark wasn't made then, so one won't be made now.

There are several reasons that few Jews are interested in building a new Temple. In Old Testament times, most families owned animals, even if that wasn't their main business. Sacrificing animals at the Temple in gratitude to God, or by way of asking forgiveness, made sense to people. But how many Jews own sheep today? Jews have done without animal sacrifice for almost two thousand years and few want to bring it back.

If it were possible to make a new Ark and place it in a new Temple, that could be a matter of national and religious pride. Without an Ark, it may not be worth the trouble.

A second temple in Israel?

Sport, social media, travel, fashion, streaming, Uber, e.t.c. That younger generation that is taking the reins of power is not Torah literate as they have other things on their mind.

Christianity is in decline around the world and Judaism is also in decline.

Every year that passes the odds of a second temple become even more remote.

 

[Andrewn]

But there will be a physical Temple in Jerusalem, before Jesus Returns. The Anti-Christ will sit in it and declare himself to be god.

Do you expect Christ to destroy the temple or to continue temple service in the millennium? I've heard both views.