Historicist Only isaac newton on the apocalypse

[victorinus]

I would not have any discouraged by the difficulty & ill success that men have hitherto met with in these attempts. This is nothing but what ought to have been. ffor it was revealed to Daniel that the prophesies concerning the last times should be closed up & sealed untill the time of the end: but then the wise should understand, & knowledg should be increased. Dan 12.4, 9, 10. And therefore the longer they have continued in obscurity, the more hopes there is that the time is at hand in which they are to be made manifest. If they are never to be understood, to what end did God reveale them? Certainly he did it for the edification of the church; & if so, then it is as certain that the church shall at length attain to the understanding thereof. I mean not all that call themselves Christians, but a remnant, a few scattered persons which God hath chosen, such as without being led by interest, education, or humane authorities, can set themselves sincerely & earnestly to search after truth. For as Daniel hath said that the wise shall understand, so he hath said also that none of the wicked shall understand.
(could not split this)

 

[Razare]

I think newton was one of the first to want to apply Daniel's 70th week to the time of the end.

We can believe the apostles thought this too, but you wont find it in scripture, other than Revelation is a 7 year period very plainly.

 

[victorinus]

I think newton was one of the first to want to apply Daniel's 70th week to the time of the end.

We can believe the apostles thought this too, but you wont find it in scripture, other than Revelation is a 7 year period very plainly.

I don't understand the 70th week -
nor do I understand how "Revelation is a 7 year period"

 

[Razare]

Newton practiced alchemy and dabbled in dark teachings .... he was a false prophet
... and He was not a Bible prophet

If you associate much with God, it's very easy to fall into false teachings.

For every revelation from God you get, the devil gets that much more interested in tempting a person away from the truth.

Before I was a Christian, God gave me a dream vision that was very real. He told me something in it. Then afterward, the devil came and I became demon possessed.

Plus, most of Christianity throughout history has been a demonic religion to some degree. Baptizing babies? That's doctrines of demons. Free masonry ties? Doctrines of demons.

So we can clearly see demons operating inside many parts of the "Christian church" today. It's not surprising even.

Even people who I listen to teachings about, I believe some of their experiences may have come from demons, and I don't hold it against them. I don't hold it against them because it's happened to me even. A demon would come and tempt me with some thoughts, I would get off-course and then have to later repent and get back on-course.

Where ever knowledge is imperfect, and that incorrect knowledge is believed and acted upon, you have a deceptive/demonic thought in operation. Humility is saying, "I don't know" when you don't know, and "I do know" when you do know based on God's word correctly understood.

So most Christians today are failing in this area in many ways... so throwing Isaac under the bus is kind of like hindsight is 20/20.

 

[Razare]

I don't understand the 70th week -
nor do I understand how "Revelation is a 7 year period"

https://www.blueletterbible.org/comm/newton_isaac/prophecies/daniel10.cfm

"Know also and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to cause to return and to build Jerusalem, unto the Anointed the Prince, shall be seven weeks. The former part of the Prophecy related to the first coming of Christ, being dated to his coming as a Prophet; this being dated to his coming to be Prince or King, seems to relate to his second coming. There, the Prophet was consummate, and the most holy anointed: here, he that was anointed comes to be Prince and to reign. For Daniel's Prophecies reach to the end of the world; and there is scarce a Prophecy in the Old Testament concerning Christ, which doth not in something or other relate to his second coming. If divers of the antients, as [g] Irenaeus, [h] Julius Africanus, Hippolytus the martyr, and Apollinaris Bishop of Laodicea, applied the half week to the times of Antichrist; why may not we, by the same liberty of interpretation, apply the seven weeks to the time when Antichrist shall be destroyed by the brightness of Christ's coming?" - Isaac Newton

Daniel's 70 week prophecy is from Daniel 9:

v24 - “Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,

Most everyone agrees that these 70 weeks, were weeks of years. They correctly date the coming of Christ the first time around, but getting the dates spot-on is difficult... it's the case that purely from historical records, I do not believe anyone can prove an exact match or disprove that match. But for those who accept scripture, scripture is the proof there was a match.

Now some say the 70th week occurred when Christ came and it was finished, but others like me and Isaac believe, the final week... 70th week relates to the time of the end.

Why do we think this?

“Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;

7 + 62 = 69 weeks

God intentionally splits the weeks according to specific events which will transpire. After 7 weeks of years an event happens. Then after 62 weeks of years, another event happens. Then there remains 7 years to fulfill the finalization of the prophecy.

Jesus Christ may allude to this split when he quotes Isaiah.

Luke 4 - and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written: "The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor." |stop!| Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him.

Where Christ rolled up the scroll and stopped, there is a division in the Isaiah prophecy.

to proclaim the year of the LORD's favor and the day of vengeance of our God, to comfort all who mourn, - Isaiah 61:2

I am no longer sure I buy-into Daniel's 70th week being the timeline of 7 years in Revelation, because it doesn't really matter to line the two up like that. The 70th week being fulfilled doesn't eliminate the 7 years in Revelation.

7 years in Revelation because:

And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth."

1260 = 3.5 years... but God recognizes time according to OT tradition by 7 year periods, so 3.5 is a split in the middle of 7 years.

But in the seventh year the land is to have a year of sabbath rest, a sabbath to the LORD. Do not sow your fields or prune your vineyards. - Leviticus 25:4

8 ‘And you shall count seven sabbaths of years for yourself, seven times seven years; and the time of the seven sabbaths of years shall be to you forty-nine years. - Leviticus 25:8

So dividing up time into 7 year periods in the Bible is what you do, basically. It's how the document works.

 

[victorinus]

So most Christians today are failing in this area in many ways... so throwing Isaac under the bus is kind of like hindsight is 20/20.

hindsight would make you a historicist -
why would a historicist throw newton under the bus?

 

[victorinus]

Much more are we to be cautious in giving a double mystical sense. There may be a double one, as where the heads of the Beast signify both mountains & Kings Apoc 17.9, 10.

 

[victorinus]

Untitled Treatise on Revelation (section 1.2)

Position 4 being the same with the harlot's Beast, & with the fourth Beast in Daniel, & with the legs of Nebuchadnezzar's Image, & with the apostate Church of the latter times prophesied of by Saint Paul.
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He was from his rise out of the sea until he received his mortal wound, & ceased to be while he lay dead, & ascended out of the bottomless pit at his resurrection; for ascention out of the bottomles pit signifies not only the rise of a temporal kingdom but moreover the bringing up some fals infernal religion with that thing which ascends Fig & therefore must here be applied to the setting up the Beast's religion & so agree to his resurrection which introduced it.
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I should now proceed to show that the Religion of the Beast is Christianity corrupted, but in order thereto it will be convenient to prove first that
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There was to be a general Apostacy in the visible Church
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13. The Beast is the universal visible Church in that state of Apostacy which was to happen in the latter times.
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14 This Beast is the same with the 4th Beast in Daniel.

 

[Straightshot]

"I am no longer sure I buy-into Daniel's 70th week being the timeline of 7 years in Revelation, because it doesn't really matter to line the two up like that. The 70th week being fulfilled doesn't eliminate the 7 years in Revelation"


Understanding the 70 weeks of years decreed for Israel is paramount for the prophecy teacher, and you have done and excellent job of presenting it

I would suggest that the tribulation period will last for 2550 says .... the additional 30 days is added in Daniel 12:11

This period of 30 days is for the battle of Armageddon to take place .... and then the Lord will appear upon the earth

 

[victorinus]

Untitled Treatise on Revelation (section 1.3)
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I should now proceed to describe the fall of this Babylonian Kingdom
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These are the reasons by which I here understand the harlot of Babylon by Tyre
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Arg: 5. The harlot of Babylon was to be forgotten or left desolate seventy yeares immediately before her reign.
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2 They are contemporary & not successive Kings ffor this also the horns of a Beast imply when they appear together, as is evident by Daniel's vision of the Ram & Goat.
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Object. If the Heads of the Beast be distributions of him according to the seales, then six of those seales were opened in Saint Iohn's time, which is to make him prophesy of things past. For when he wrote the Apocalyps he said of the heads that five are fallen & one is ch 17.10

Resp. This expression is not to be referred to the time of writing the Apocalyps but to the timewhich was looked upon as present in the vision: For thus in many other places things are spoken of as past or present becaus past or present in the visions though to come in Saint Iohn's time.
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by describing the Beast which he saw, to be like a Leopard, & his feet as the feet of a Bear & his mouth as the mouth of a Lyon, ch 13.2. ffor these three being the Beasts by which the three first Kingdoms were represented in Daniel, the naming of them all in this description of the Beast by Saint Iohn seems to be on purpose to point at the vision of Daniel & insinuate the correspondence between the two Prophesies.


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PROP. IX.
The Kingdom represented by the Dragon & Beast is the same with the fourth Kingdom in Daniel represented by the dreadfull Beast with great iron teeth, as also by the iron leggs of Nebuchadnezzar's Image. And the two horned Beast is the same with the little horn of that dreadfull Beast.
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Object 2. Before the pouring out of the Vials Saint Iohn saw them that had gotten the victory over the Beast ch 15.2, And therefore the Beast existed before the first Vial & consequently before the first Trumpet.
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Secondly although the rising of the beast out of the sea, becaus it expresses only the rise of a temporal kingdom without respect to religion be not inconsistent with the things described in that seal, nor with those in chap 12.10 coincident to it; yet his ascention out of the pit implying the rise of a new infernal religion must needs so soon as that religion is grown to any considerable degree of maturity put an end to those things & with them to that seale & so begin the next.

 

[victorinus]

untitled treatise on revelation (section 1.4) -
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And consequently the Beast whose horn this is must last till the day of judgment, & so can be no other then the Roman Kingdom.
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Considering therefore that the horsmen are the four first of the seven Kings
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This first King therefore is to be interpreted of our Saviour a single person: but
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final shutting up of the Temples by Gratian & Theodosius
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change of religion in the end of the year 380,
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for I suppose this sealbegan at the change of religion which Theodosius began to work in December or as Socrates writes in November 26 A.C. 380
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Sea of Glass mingled with fire
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Oracle
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Chrysostome
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The third Rider has a pair of Ballances in his hand
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This is the history; & now for the application of it to the Prophesy:

 

[victorinus]

untitled treatise on revelation (section 1.5) -
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Now of these two parts it's plain that the western must be the Beast
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Now as the Beast thus rose both in a civil & religious respect, so he received his mortal wound inboth respects. ffor when Constantius invaded & conquered the western Emperour Magnentius, he not only made the western Empire cease for a time but supprest its religion too
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[victorinus]

untitled treatise on revelation (section 1.6) -
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this Trumpet has another remarkable character, the fall of a great star
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untill at last A.C. 476
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I have now done with the wars of the 4 first Trumpets
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[victorinus]

untitled treatise on revelation (section 1.7) -
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I have now done with the wars of the first four Trumpets
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The conditions of the fift Trumpet are these 1. It is to begin with the rise of a new fals religion: ffor this the ascention of any thing out of the bottomless pit implies.
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to express the ceasing of fals religions for a 1000 years
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. There have been since the writing of the Apocalyps but two notable new fals religions of large extent & long duration, the Roman & the Mahometan.
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The affinity between the Turks & Saracens is sufficiently conspicuous
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both being also of the same religion.

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[victorinus]

untitled treatise on revelation (section 1.8) -
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Thus did this Emperor weild the great sword & take peace from the earth
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And the next is the numerousness of the Turkish Armies
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[LastSeven]

Are all these excepts from Newton? Seems kind of random.

 

[victorinus]

Are all these excepts from Newton?

yes but they are not random -
you can't ignore newton if you are obsessed with the apocalypse -
for me it is a difficult read but I didn't want to miss anything -
-so-
I captured some parts of each of the 8 sections to help me and anyone else who might be interested -
my primary interest is how he sees islam
-that is section 7-

 

[victorinus]

"Thus the ten horned beast is said to rise out of the bottomless pit (chap 11.7. & 17.8) becaus he was to rise together with the great Antichristian Apostacy."
-here newton ties it all together
"And so in chap 20 to express the ceasing of fals religions for a 1000 years & afterds their springing up again, the Dragon is said to be cast into the bottomles pit that he should deceive the nations no more till after the 1000 years & then to be let out again to deceive them."

 

[keras]

Too bad Newton couldn't spell very well!
It was impossible for Newton, however hard he studied, to come to the truth of God's plans for the last days.
Daniel 12:9...the Words are to be kept secret and sealed until the time of the end.
He lived too early and only now are a few people, NOT the learned and wise: Matthew 11:25, beginning to understand the truths of the Prophetic Word. To the vast majority, it will all happen as a surprise.

 

[victorinus]

It was impossible for Newton, however hard he studied, to come to the truth of God's plans for the last days.

it may be impossible to understand
-but-
one thing should be clear
-we need to watch