Historicist Only isaac newton on the apocalypse

[victorinus]

Best I can do is link to Wikipedia here.

I am sorry that is the best you can do
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I have read all of his stuff on the apocalypse and have not seen anything like that
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even if I did, that would not diminish my respect for all of his writings
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I do not agree with a lot of it
-but-
I don't let something I may find in wikipedia prevent me from looking for the truth

 

[victorinus]

As a Catholic, how do you feel about Newton's notion that the Papal Office is the fulfilment of the Biblical predictions about Antichrist?

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20 years ago farrakhan referred to the pope as a harlot on tv
-which-
started my investigation to prove him wrong
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I was able to do that
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does that answer your question?

 

[ken777]

I am sorry that is the best you can do
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I have read all of his stuff on the apocalypse and have not seen anything like that
-and-
even if I did, that would not diminish my respect for all of his writings
-and-
I do not agree with a lot of it
-but-
I don't let something I may find in wikipedia prevent me from looking for the truth

Wikipedia serves as a good starting point to further inquiry by following up the references for those who have an interest.

 

[victorinus]

"And therefore the longer they have continued in obscurity, the more hopes there is that the time is at hand in which they are to be made manifest. If they are never to be understood, to what end did God reveale them?"
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good question

before we were so rudely interrupted, we were talking about why God would reveal something to us that was not to be understood as suggested by the great newton
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it's about time
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there is a time for every purpose
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every purpose has its time

 

[victorinus]

"Let me therefore beg of thee not to trust to the opinion of any man concerning these things, for so it is great odds but thou shalt be deceived. Much less oughtest thou to rely upon <2r> the judgment of the multitude, for so thou shalt certainly be deceived. "
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many have been deceived

 

[victorinus]

"But search the scriptures thy self & that by frequent reading & constant meditation upon what thou readest, & earnest prayer to God to enlighten thine understanding if thou desirest to find the truth. Which if thou shalt at length attain thou wilt value above all other treasures in the world by reason of the assurance and vigour it will add to thy faith, and steddy satisfaction to thy mind which he onely can know how to estimate who shall experience it."
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good advice

 

[victorinus]

"That the benefit which may accrew by understanding the sacred Prophesies & the danger by neglecting them is very great & that the obligation to study them is as great may appear by considering the like case of the Iews at the coming of Christ. "
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the jews are still looking
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the futurists have a similar problem

 

[victorinus]

"For the rules whereby they were to know their Messiah were the prophesies of the old Testament. And these our Saviour recommended to their consideration in the very beginning of his preaching Luke 4.21: And afterward commanded the study of them for that end saying, Search the scriptures for in them ye think ye have eternall life, and these are they which testify of me: & at another time severely reproved their ignorance herein, saying to them when they required a sign, Ye Hypocrites ye can discern the face of the sky but can ye not discern the signes of the times And after his resurrection he reproved also this ignorance in his disciples, saying unto them, O fools & slow of heart to beleive all that the Prophets have spoken!"
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we are also supposed to watch
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Blessed is he that watcheth

 

[victorinus]

"And If God was so angry with the Iews for not searching more diligently into the Prophesies which he had given them to know Christ by: why should we think he will excuse us for not searching into the Prophesies which he hath given us to know Antichrist by? For certainly it must be as dangerous & as easy an error for Christians to adhere to Antichrist as it was for the Iews to reject Christ. And therefore it is as much our duty to indeavour to be able to know him that we may avoyd him, as it was theirs to know Christ that they might follow him."
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it is also our duty to watch

 

[victorinus]

"Thou seest therefore that this is no idle speculation, no matters of indifferency but a duty of the greatest moment. Wherefore it concerns thee to look about thee narrowly least thou shouldest in so degenerate an age be dangerously seduced & not know it. Antichrist was to seduce the whole Christian world and therefore he may easily seduce thee if thou beest not well prepared to discern him. But if he should not be yet come into the world yet amidst so many religions of which there can be but one true & perhaps none of those that thou art acquainted with it is great odds but thou mayst be deceived & therefore it concerns thee to be very circumspect."
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how will you know the antichrist?

 

[victorinus]

" Consider also the instructions of our Saviour concerning these latter times by the Parable of the Fig-tree. Now learn a parable of the Figtree, saith he: When his branch is yet tender and putteth forth leaves, ye know that Summer is nigh. So likewise ye when ye see these things know that it is near even at the doors. — Watch therefore for ye know not what hower your Lord doth come. Wherefore it is <4r> thy duty to learn the signes of the times that thou mayst know how to watch, & be able to discern what times are coming on the earth by the things that are already past. If thou doest watch thou mayst know when it is at the door as a man knows by the leaves of a figtree that Somer is nigh."
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I love the the fig tree thing
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are you watching?

 

[victorinus]

"be able to discern what times are coming on the earth by the things that are already past"
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this bears repeating
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the historicists don't try to predict the future based on their interpretation of prophecy
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our job is to watch what has already happened
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try to make sense of it

 

[victorinus]

"Consider also the designe of the Apocalyps. Was it not given for the use of the Church to guide & direct her in the right way, And is not this the end of all prophetick Scripture? If there was no need of it, or if it cannot be understood, then why did God give it? Does he trifle? But if it was necessary for the Church then why doest thou neglect it, or how knowest thou that thou art in the right way, and yet doest not understand it?"
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this reminded me of something augustine wrote
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"What then, Brothers, shall we keep silence?
Why then read it if only to keep silence about it?
Or why hear it if it is not to be explained?
But also,
why explain it if it is not to be understood?"

 

[victorinus]

"Lastly consider the Blessing which is promised to them that read & study & keep the things which are written in <5r> this Prophesy. Blessed is he that readeth & they that hear the words of this Prophesy & keep the things which are written therein, for the time is at hand, Rev. 1.3. And again to reinforce the invitation to take these things into consideration, the same Blessing is repeated in Ch 22.7"
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don't forget - Blessed is he that watcheth - 16:15

 

[victorinus]

"[They will call thee it may be a a Bigot, a Fanatique, a Heretique &c: And tell thee of the uncertainty of these interpretations, & vanity of attending to them: Not considering that the prophesies concerning our Saviour's first coming were of more difficult interpretation, and yet God rejected the Iews for not attending better to them."
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there are many different interpretations
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who is to say which one is correct?

 

[victorinus]

" And whither they will beleive it or not, there are greater judgments hang over the Christians for their remisness then ever the Iews yet felt. But the world loves to be deceived, they will not understand, they never consider equally, but are wholly led by prejudice, interest, the prais of men, and authority of the Church they live in: as is plain becaus all parties keep close to the Religion they have been brought up in, & yet in all parties there are wise & learned as well as fools & ignorant."
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Untitled Treatise on Revelation (section 1.1)

 

[victorinus]

newton knew that the answers can be found in history
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you have to look to find them

 

[keras]

newton knew that the answers can be found in history
-and-
you have to look to find them

The answers are found in the Bible.
All that must happen in our future is written in plain sight, but they were not able to be discerned by Newton or anyone before now. Daniel 12:9

 

[victorinus]

The answers are found in the Bible.
All that must happen in our future is written in plain sight, but they were not able to be discerned by Newton or anyone before now. Daniel 12:9

how will you know when it does happen?
are you that confident in your interpretation?
do you realize how many other interpretations there are?

 

[keras]

how will you know when it does happen?
are you that confident in your interpretation?
do you realize how many other interpretations there are?

There are practically as many interpretations of the end times prophesies, as there are Christians. God has allowed this confusion in order to test the faith of every believer.
It is plain from Isaiah 61:2b and Luke 3:17, that the next prophesied event will be the Lord's Day of wrath by fire, that every person alive will experience. Luke 21:35, Revelation 6:12-17
This worldwide disaster will set the scene for all the things to follow, leading up to the Return of Jesus for His Millennium reign.