Is there salvation in Mary?

[Goatee]

I agree it is the same thing.

Fixed. lol

 

[Grafted In]

I don't believe you have the authority to edit my post.

Do it again and I will report you.
What you did was a lie and you know it.
And I'm certain God did not overlook it.
If your position is so weak that you choose to sin against God in an attempt to prove your position, something is wrong.

 

[Goatee]

I don't believe you have the authority to edit my post.

Do it again and I will report you.
What you did was a lie and you know it.
And I'm certain God did not overlook it.
If your position is so weak that you choose to sin against God in an attempt to prove your position, something is wrong.

Blimey! Chill out! It was a joke!!!!

Sorry if it upset you buddy.

 

[Goatee]

Not the same thing.

Same from where i am sitting etc.

 

[All4Christ]

Even though I respect the right for anyone to believe anything they want, I still must whole heartedly object to any adoration that goes beyond simple respect, which is in my opinion is 'worship', Even the Lord Himself did not pedestal Mary above any other disciple when He gave the 'who is my Mother' teaching in Matthew 12:46-50 . To me it is clear that to Him it is very important that we as Christians are and remain on the same level. Otherwise we spin off into strange worship like the people did with the snake staff in the OT. I am confident that if possible Mary herself would reprove her worshippers if she was able.

It is respect, and yes, honor as well, but not adoration. I believe many do not understand the intent or mindset behind Orthodox Christians. I didn't understand before I attended an Orthodox church and learned not just through books, but also through experience.

I understand your viewpoint. I just know from experience that the mindset is different than what I used to think.

So FTR, I agree that adoration is for God alone.

As St John of Damascus explained:

“Abraham bowed down to the sons of Hamor, men who had neither faith nor knowledge of God, when he bought the double cave intended to become a tomb. Jacob bowed to the ground before Esau, his brother, and also before the tip of his son Joseph’s staff. He bowed down, but he did not adore. Joshua, the son of Nun, and Daniel bowed in veneration before an angel of God, but they did not adore him” (On the Divine Images, page 19).

A related quote from the same person

“I do not adore the creation rather than the Creator, but I adore the one who became a creature, who was formed as I was, who clothed Himself in creation without weakening or departing from His divinity, that He might raise our nature in glory and make us partakers of His divine nature. . . .

“Therefore I boldly draw an image of the invisible God, not as invisible, but as having become visible for our sakes by partaking of flesh and blood. I do not draw an image of the immortal Godhead, but I paint the image of God who became visible in the flesh, for if it is impossible to make a representation of a spirit, how much more impossible is it to depict the God who gives life to the spirit?” (On the Divine Images, pages 15, 16).

 

[Thursday]

I would tend to agree with you, but much popular Marian devotion goes well beyond what's in the Catechism (indeed, to my untutored eyes, much popular Marian devotion seems to contradict the Catechism).

I'm sure there are abuses out there, especially among some areas of the world where Catholic teaching has been combined with other religions.

 

[Thursday]

Even though I respect the right for anyone to believe anything they want, I still must whole heartedly object to any adoration that goes beyond simple respect, which is in my opinion is 'worship', Even the Lord Himself did not pedestal Mary above any other disciple when He gave the 'who is my Mother' teaching in Matthew 12:46-50 . To me it is clear that to Him it is very important that we as Christians are and remain on the same level. Otherwise we spin off into strange worship like the people did with the snake staff in the OT. I am confident that if possible Mary herself would reprove her worshippers if she was able.

Do you call Mary blessed? If not ,why not?

Do you accept her unique role in salvation history? If not, why not?

 

[tz620q]

It would be safe to say that most people probably care very little for "whats on the books" within Rome, as we are more concerned with what we hear on a regular basis from the average Roman Catholic; it matters very little even if their worship of Mary is performed through ignorance.

So you have a choice, either be part of the group that cares little for whats on the books or address the actual teachings of the Catholic Church. You have many average Catholics on here telling you to not judge someone by outside appearance, since you do not know what is in their hearts when they bow to pray. Now you can keep making apocryphal comments on what you have seen and saying that true Catholicism is what you observe or you can take a leap of faith and address us trying to understand our viewpoint from within our faith rather than being opposed to it.

 

[Thursday]

It would be safe to say that most people probably care very little for "whats on the books" within Rome, as we are more concerned with what we hear on a regular basis from the average Roman Catholic; it matters very little even if their worship of Mary is performed through ignorance.

Mary is not worshiped by Catholics. (there may be some abuses in third world nations but the Church can't be responsible for all abuses)

Can you site a real world example from "the average Roman Catholic"?

 

[Hallstone]

Do you call Mary blessed? If not ,why not?

Do you accept her unique role in salvation history? If not, why not?

I personally believe that Mary is among the blessed in Heaven, but I also believe that she is not above them, nor would she care to be. I would go so far as to say that any religion that tries to pedestal a human being no matter who they are or what they've done, that religion has over-stepped their role, and has become presumptuous, and cultish. Christ is the Head of the Church, and all the saints are below Him but no Saint is above another as far as hierarchy, because their is no hierarchy, just Love and Respect. Those who seek position claim spiritual dominance, and that is Satanic, and always has been.

 

[Thursday]

I personally believe that Mary is among the blessed in Heaven, but I also believe that she is not above them, nor would she care to be. I would go so far as to say that any religion that tries to pedestal a human being no matter who they are or what they've done, that religion has over-stepped their role, and has become presumptuous, and cultish. Christ is the Head of the Church, and all the saints are below Him but no Saint is above another as far as hierarchy, because their is no hierarchy, just Love and Respect. Those who seek position claim spiritual dominance, and that is Satanic, and always has been.

God chose Mary. She is the spouse of the Holy Spirit, the daughter of God the Father, and the mother of God the son.

If you don't believe that she is uniquely honored by God then there is nothing more we can discuss.

 

[Hallstone]

God chose Mary. She is the spouse of the Holy Spirit, the daughter of God the Father, and the mother of God the son.

If you don't believe that she is uniquely honored by God then there is nothing more we can discuss.

Mary would reprove you herself for making her out to be more than she is to support your hierarchical structure. Spiritual eminence only belongs to One, and He does not share it. Pedestals are for Pagans.

 

[Goatee]

Mary would reprove you herself for making her out to be more than she is to support your hierarchical structure. Spiritual eminence only belongs to One, and He does not share it. Pedestals are for Pagans.

Mary has come forward to real people as documented down through history.

 

[Thursday]

Mary would reprove you herself for making her out to be more than she is to support your hierarchical structure. Spiritual eminence only belongs to One, and He does not share it. Pedestals are for Pagans.

Mary is queen mother of heaven given that she is the mother of the King.

Mary is the mother of all who follow Christ. You dishonor the mother of Christ at your own peril

 

[ViaCrucis]

It's a little hard to have a conversation when one side wants to insist the other believes and does things they don't believe and don't do.

Here's a revolutionary idea, want to know what Catholics and Orthodox believe about Mary and how they understand the concept of veneration? Ask.

And maybe ask without trying to force a bunch of Hislopian nonsense. Also, maybe open a history book.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Monk Brendan]

Mary would reprove you herself for making her out to be more than she is to support your hierarchical structure. Spiritual eminence only belongs to One, and He does not share it. Pedestals are for Pagans.

Until then, is it right for YOU to reprove him for her? That is not the Christian way, and you know it. If
antletems is insulting her, it is for HER to reject or reprove, and not you. Let him alone

 

[jerry kelso]

Mary is queen mother of heaven given that she is the mother of the King.

Mary is the mother of all who follow Christ. You dishonor the mother of Christ at your own peril

thursday,

1. Mary is the earthly mother of Christ who is the King of Glory.
Mary is not the mother of all who follow Christ concerning redemption as seemingly implied. Redemption is only a work of Christ.

2. Mary or any other saved person should equally not be dishonored at all for God is no respector of persons.

3. Mary should be honored because of being faithful to God and his calling as being the vessel used by God to bring the Messiah to fruition because it was the jewish nation's calling to bring the Messiah to fruition to begin with.

4. Mary is to be respected but not in the context of having anything specific to the working of the working of redemption which was only accomplished through the work of Christ on the cross and there is no other name by which one can be saved.

5. Mary recognized she was honored by the Lord to birth the son who was to be the deliverer of Israel and salvation for all mankind. At the same time she never elevated herself above any other person that had been, would be or will be a willing vessel. Jerry Kelso

 

[jerry kelso]

Salvation can only come via God. Mary, Our Holy Mother, intercedes for us to Her Holy Son.

antletems,

1. What scripture do you use to show Mary intercedes for us to Jesus specifically in order to be saved? Jerry Kelso

 

[Goatee]

Until then, is it right for YOU to reprove him for her? That is not the Christian way, and you know it. If
antletems is insulting her, it is for HER to reject or reprove, and not you. Let him alone

Excuse me!!!!

I am not insulting Mary!!!!!! I love Our Blessed Mother!!!

 

[Goatee]

antletems,

1. What scripture do you use to show Mary intercedes for us to Jesus specifically in order to be saved? Jerry Kelso

Mary interceded at Cana.