Is there salvation in Mary?

[Daniel Marsh]

”There is no one, O Most Holy Mary, who can know God except through thee; no one who can be saved or redeemed but through thee, O Mother of God; no one who can be delivered from dangers but through thee, O Virgin Mother; no one who obtains mercy but through thee, O Filled-With-All-Grace!”
--Saint Germanus of Constantinople, Patriarch of Constantinople

http://whitelilyoftrinity.com/saints_quotes_mary.html


”It is impossible to save one's soul without devotion to Mary and without her protection.”
--Saint Anselm, Archbishop and Doctor of the Church

”Not only do they offend thee, O Lady, who outrage thee, but thou art also offended by those who neglect to ask thy favors . . . He who neglects the service of the Blessed Virgin will die in his sins . . . He who does not invoke thee, O Lady, will never get to Heaven . . . Not only will those from whom Mary turns her countenance not be saved, but there will be no hope of their salvation . . . No one can be saved without the protection of Mary.
--Saint Bonaventure, Cardinal-Bishop and Doctor of the Church

”We may seek graces, but shall never find them without the intercession of Mary.”
--Saint Cajetan, Founder of the Theatines

 

[TaylorSexton]

"Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).

 

[ViaCrucis]

”There is no one, O Most Holy Mary, who can know God except through thee; no one who can be saved or redeemed but through thee, O Mother of God; no one who can be delivered from dangers but through thee, O Virgin Mother; no one who obtains mercy but through thee, O Filled-With-All-Grace!”
--Saint Germanus of Constantinople, Patriarch of Constantinople

http://whitelilyoftrinity.com/saints_quotes_mary.html


”It is impossible to save one's soul without devotion to Mary and without her protection.”
--Saint Anselm, Archbishop and Doctor of the Church

”Not only do they offend thee, O Lady, who outrage thee, but thou art also offended by those who neglect to ask thy favors . . . He who neglects the service of the Blessed Virgin will die in his sins . . . He who does not invoke thee, O Lady, will never get to Heaven . . . Not only will those from whom Mary turns her countenance not be saved, but there will be no hope of their salvation . . . No one can be saved without the protection of Mary.
--Saint Bonaventure, Cardinal-Bishop and Doctor of the Church

”We may seek graces, but shall never find them without the intercession of Mary.”
--Saint Cajetan, Founder of the Theatines

I'm generally wary of long list of unsourced quote mines on the internet. The quotes from Anselm, Bonaventure, and Cajetan all represent rather late medieval Marian devotion; I am more interested in the quote attributed to St. Germanus. Western, Roman, hyperdulia is a well noted phenomenon, one that has received plenty of criticism from both Protestant and Orthodox circles; which is why I am curious about the source for the Germanus quote. Chiefly because I suspect the Germanus quote might be in the context of Mary's role as Theotokos, I have noticed that Eastern devotion to the mother of God is usually Christocentric, which is what appropriate Marian reverence should be. Veneration for the Blessed Virgin and the rest of the saints must ultimately be rooted and based in the glory of Christ.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Stillicidia]

No

 

[All4Christ]

I'm generally wary of long list of unsourced quote mines on the internet. The quotes from Anselm, Bonaventure, and Cajetan all represent rather late medieval Marian devotion; I am more interested in the quote attributed to St. Germanus. Western, Roman, hyperdulia is a well noted phenomenon, one that has received plenty of criticism from both Protestant and Orthodox circles; which is why I am curious about the source for the Germanus quote. Chiefly because I suspect the Germanus quote might be in the context of Mary's role as Theotokos, I have noticed that Eastern devotion to the mother of God is usually Christocentric, which is what appropriate Marian reverence should be. Veneration for the Blessed Virgin and the rest of the saints must ultimately be rooted and based in the glory of Christ.

-CryptoLutheran

Agreed. When the focus on the Theotokos is Christocentric - it puts everything into the right place. That's why we rarely refer to her as Mary. I think Luther had a pretty good quote about that concept, though I don't have it handy right now.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I'm generally wary of long list of unsourced quote mines on the internet. The quotes from Anselm, Bonaventure, and Cajetan all represent rather late medieval Marian devotion; I am more interested in the quote attributed to St. Germanus. Western, Roman, hyperdulia is a well noted phenomenon, one that has received plenty of criticism from both Protestant and Orthodox circles; which is why I am curious about the source for the Germanus quote. Chiefly because I suspect the Germanus quote might be in the context of Mary's role as Theotokos, I have noticed that Eastern devotion to the mother of God is usually Christocentric, which is what appropriate Marian reverence should be. Veneration for the Blessed Virgin and the rest of the saints must ultimately be rooted and based in the glory of Christ.

-CryptoLutheran

This author,
Hail Holy Queen!: An Explanation of the Salve Regina
By St. Alphonsus Liguori gives the same explanation, but does not put the quotes in context. https://books.google.com/books?id=n...med but through thee, O Mother of God&f=false

But this Mary devotion page quotes without context too.
http://www.catholictradition.org/Mary/mary18a.htm

 

[Daniel Marsh]

St. Germanus: Today she who will receive the Holy of Holies . . .


“Today she who will receive the Holy of Holies, that is the Christ, through the sanctification of the Holy Spirit is, through an even greater sanctification, placed in the Holy of Holies with holiness and majesty.”

— St. Germanus of Constantinople, First Homily on the Presentation

This entry was posted in Sayings from Saints, Elders, and Fathers, St. Germanus of Constantinople and tagged Annunciation, Entrance of the Theotokos Into the Temple, Holy of Holies, Theotokos, Theotokos in the Holy of Holies on December 10, 2013 by .
St. Germanus . . . it is there in this holy sanctuary of grace that Mary is offered to stay there indefinitely.
“There where only the High Priest may enter, and then rarely: only once a year, it is there in this holy sanctuary of grace that Mary is offered to stay there indefinitely. Who has ever heard anything similar? Who has ever seen or heard, now or formerly, that a woman was introduced into the intimacy of the Holy of Holies, and that it was in this place, almost inaccessible even to men, that she lived and ate. Is this not a striking demonstration of the strange magnificence of which her womb would be the object? Is it not a manifest sign, a irrefutable proof?”

— St. Germanus of Constantinople, Second Homily on the Presentation

http://www.orthodoxchurchquotes.com...rs-and-fathers/st-germanus-of-constantinople/

 

[Daniel Marsh]

The quotes I gave are from a catholic site.

 

[Raggedyman]

"Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).

But doesn't Calvin say you can't be saved in Jesus name if you are not elect
Might As well turn to Mary, God doesn't really care for you if you do or dont

 

[Daniel Marsh]

who is calvin? For God so loved the world....

 

[Biblicist]

who is calvin? For God so loved the world....

Now that's a question that I would never expect to come across! Is your question a serious one or are you maybe being intentionally flippant?

 

[All4Christ]

”There is no one, O Most Holy Mary, who can know God except through thee; no one who can be saved or redeemed but through thee, O Mother of God; no one who can be delivered from dangers but through thee, O Virgin Mother; no one who obtains mercy but through thee, O Filled-With-All-Grace!”
--Saint Germanus of Constantinople, Patriarch of Constantinople

http://whitelilyoftrinity.com/saints_quotes_mary.html


”It is impossible to save one's soul without devotion to Mary and without her protection.”
--Saint Anselm, Archbishop and Doctor of the Church

”Not only do they offend thee, O Lady, who outrage thee, but thou art also offended by those who neglect to ask thy favors . . . He who neglects the service of the Blessed Virgin will die in his sins . . . He who does not invoke thee, O Lady, will never get to Heaven . . . Not only will those from whom Mary turns her countenance not be saved, but there will be no hope of their salvation . . . No one can be saved without the protection of Mary.
--Saint Bonaventure, Cardinal-Bishop and Doctor of the Church

”We may seek graces, but shall never find them without the intercession of Mary.”
--Saint Cajetan, Founder of the Theatines

I'd want to see the sentences before and after with St Germanus' quote. I could see him referencing something like "through her yes", but not stating that Mary holds a role like Co-redemptrix. In the EO, it always points towards Christ, even if the reading without context seems otherwise.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Now that's a question that I would never expect to come across! Is your question a serious one or are you maybe being intentionally flippant?

serious

 

[Goatee]

Salvation can only come via God. Mary, Our Holy Mother, intercedes for us to Her Holy Son.

 

[Raggedyman]

who is calvin? For God so loved the world....

Yes, who is Calvin
For God so loved the world

 

[All4Christ]

Yes, who is Calvin
For God so loved the world

There were three main theologians at the beginning of the Christian Reformation movement: Luther, Calvin, and Zwingli. Zwingli helped form the movement that Anabaptists came from, Calvin helped form what now is known as Calvinism, and Luther helped form Lutheranism. The TULIP theology framework is one of his most well known contributions to the Reformed Protestant movement.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Calvin
http://www.reformed.org/calvinism/

I highly recommend learning more about the history of the church, especially concerning the origins of your tradition (Anabaptist), if you haven't already done so. Learning where we come from is very important.

 

[All4Christ]

Now that's a question that I would never expect to come across! Is your question a serious one or are you maybe being intentionally flippant?

Sometimes Christians haven't studied other denominations beyond their own - though Calvin certainly is one of the most well known...

 

[Raggedyman]

There were three main theologians at the beginning of the Christian Reformation movement: Luther, Calvin, and Zwingli. Zwingli helped form the movement that Anabaptists came from, Calvin helped form what now is known as Calvinism, and Luther helped form Lutheranism. The TULIP theology framework is one of his most well known contributions to the Reformed Protestant movement.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Calvin
http://www.reformed.org/calvinism/

I highly recommend learning more about the history of the church, especially concerning the origins of your tradition (Anabaptist), if you haven't already done so. Learning where we come from is very important.

Thanks
I was just implying as Daniel Marsh had
Calvin is a nobody compared to Christ, Calvins beliefs are nothing next to Christs message of love

Thnks anyway, appreciate your time

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Why quote them just to disprove them ?

This author,

But this Mary devotion page quotes without context too.

 

[ViaCrucis]

There were three main theologians at the beginning of the Christian Reformation movement: Luther, Calvin, and Zwingli. Zwingli helped form the movement that Anabaptists came from, Calvin helped form what now is known as Calvinism, and Luther helped form Lutheranism. The TULIP theology framework is one of his most well known contributions to the Reformed Protestant movement.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Calvin
http://www.reformed.org/calvinism/

I highly recommend learning more about the history of the church, especially concerning the origins of your tradition (Anabaptist), if you haven't already done so. Learning where we come from is very important.

Just as a correction: Zwingli was a Reformed theologian, thus a Calvinist (strictly speaking) but whose Eucharistic theology was further afield than Calvin's (Calvin's Eucharistic theology regarded the presence of Christ in a spiritual sense in the faith of the believer; whereas Zwingli promulgated the teaching known as Memorialism, thus denying the presence of Christ altogether).

Menno Simons is usually regarded as one of the chief founders of the Anabaptists, as Simons came to believe that paedobaptism was incorrect and he and his followers had themselves re-baptized.

Most significant in differences between Zwingli and the Anabaptists is the Zwingli was highly critical of the Anabaptist's rejection of infant baptism.

The most obvious influence that Zwingli had was on John Knox, a Scottish reformer and founder of Presbyterianism.

Where Luther found certain irreconcilable differences with Calvin, but could still more-or-less respect him; Luther found Zwingli's theology downright unacceptable and accused the Zwinglians of being "fanatics", famously saying, "I would sooner drink pure blood with the Pope than mere wine with the fanatics!"

-CryptoLuthearn