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Featured Is there really a Rainbow Bridge in heaven?

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by ChristianForCats, Mar 19, 2019.

  1. His student

    His student Active Member

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    "NothingIsImpossible told you, "I seen you mentioned in your first topic on here you have been a christian for two years. One think you need to learn is be careful of becoming "holier than thou". While its great when someone is saved, they often get so excited that they rush into any conversation and often don't realize how they are coming off."

    "section9+1" told you, "It is a mystery, but one that we need not go to extremes to defend or deny. It's not worth standing either way on this and judging everyone else's faith according to this topic. It's peripheral and not a crucial issue. Christians have enough doctrinal issues to chew on with each other as it is. So don't get too whacked out over it."

    That's all good advice brother.

    When you're a fairly new "theologian" as you are - it is best to read and listen for a while before being so dogmatic about controversies that you come across as judgmental.

    I remember that early on I felt I knew everything there was to know about certain doctrines. While people were likely more than willing to discuss ideas with me in a civil manner - my know it all attitude turned them off and they simply withdrew from discussions with me on certain subjects.

    Like most prideful people are want to do - I thought they had withdrawn because I had won the argument. Several times in the future I changed my view on those subjects I had been so dogmatic about. It was only then that I realized the true reason some people gave up on me. I had brought it on myself.

    Because I learned valuable lessons from my bad attitude I'm going to spend a few minutes with you here even though you are extremely irritating as many others will quite gladly tell you.

    Don't blow the opportunity to make this a "teaching moment". :) Listen carefully and perhaps you'll learn a few things from someone who has been a serious student of the scriptures for over 6 decades now. This will be my last post to you unless you admit you are wrong and come off with a better attitude in general.

    I don't mind leading a new believer through a few basic concepts. In fact - it's my pleasure at least until they show themselves unwilling to listen and learn. Hopefully that won't prove to be the case here. If it is - you'll be on your own.

    Please don't be such a wise acre.

    Yes - I read them. I read them in context and I compared them with other related scriptures as any good theologian should do.

    The passage from Revelation is quite obviously referencing events on this present earth and not on either the partially restored earth in the Millennium or most certainly not on the new earth.

    The two passages from Isaiah are also obviously not referencing the new earth. We know this because the Revelation passage as well as both Isaiah 11 and Isaiah 65 mention the sea and even animals in that sea.

    The new earth will have no sea.

    This present earth (with it's seas) will be done away with and there will be a completely new earth just as there will be a completely new Heaven.

    "But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men." 2 Peter 3:7

    "The Lord is not slow to fulfill His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar, the elements will be dissolved in the fire, and the earth and it's works will not be found. Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to conduct yourselves in holiness and godliness…" 2 Peter 3:9-11

    "Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea." Revelation 21:1
    God did not say there would be animals on the new earth, the new Heaven and most certainly not fish under the non existent sea on the new earth.
    Now you know.
    Oh come now - literal horses in Revelation with the anti-Christ riding one, death riding another, famine riding another and Jesus riding another with warriors following after Him riding literal horses? I suppose next it'll be up to believers who have only wood, hay, and stubble to show for their lives to come behind and pick up all the poo.
    Nonsense - the New Jerusalem comes down out of Heaven and rests on the new earth. You're saying they just sort of morph together?:scratch:

    If you were to say that the new earth will be "paradise" to us or some such thing - it would be a different story. But you are not saying that. You are saying that Heaven and earth will be the same thing.
    No kidding. Everyone knows that.
    No - they do not.

    Look - you aren't the first one to refer to Heaven when you're really talking about the new earth.

    Randy Alcorn is a long time friend of mine of nearly 40 years. I respect him very much and have learned a great deal from him over the years. He has written many books among which is the best selling "HEAVEN" which you could say is considered by many to be the last word on the subject.

    He talks about the future lives we will live - and he talks about them being on the new earth even though the book is supposedly all about "Heaven". There is scant reference in the book to the new Heaven as such. Everyone knows what he is talking about when he talks about the earth and Heaven as if they were the same thing. That's because he makes it clear from the start that there is a difference.

    But you are not near the theologian that Randy is and you should not conflate the two concepts in your mind.

    You have already shown us - with your mistaken references to Revelation and Isaiah as having to do with the new earth - that you have not yet equipped yourself with enough practice and experience in the principles of systematic theology to take such liberties here or anywhere else.

    You need to take the time to "study to show yourself approved" - and remember in the future what the Lord warns us about.

    "Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment." James 3:1.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
  2. NothingIsImpossible

    NothingIsImpossible Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. As Matthew 7:6 says "Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces."
     
  3. DM25

    DM25 Active Member

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    Why are you being so literal? When people think of "heaven" they think of paradise and our eternal home. So yeah new earth will be heaven for us. That's what we have to look forward to. Will be able to have access to the new third heaven? Sure, maybe, but that's not where we will spend most of our time working for the Lord, that will be on new earth. So yeah new earth is heaven for us. When I say "heaven" I refer to new earth. But EVEN the third heaven, Jesus comes down with a horse. So even that proves there are animals in the third heaven too. This whole "metaphorical" argument just sounds like a major cop out. I have no idea why or for what reason. Just because animals aren't as important as humans, doesn't mean they don't get to heaven. They were still created by God and God saw his creation and said it was "good".

    I would appreciate you guys stop attacking me personally and stick to the argument at hand. I'm not insulting anyone personally here or making it personal. I hate when people do that, that's called straw man. Attacking the person rather than the facts and argument. Please be respectful. I don't look for flaws in you as a person, or how long you are a Christian. I simply look at your argument and argue that with scripture to prove it isn't right which I did.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
  4. DM25

    DM25 Active Member

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    That verse is metaphorical, and it's obvious. It does not say God's creations are bad. God literally looked at his creation and said it was "good". He never called his creation of animals bad.
     
  5. His student

    His student Active Member

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    :wave:
     
  6. NothingIsImpossible

    NothingIsImpossible Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  7. usexpat97

    usexpat97 kewlness

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    This is a sensitive subject for me. I pray with all my heart there is a RB. I think a good God has a surprise waiting for us. However, the guy in "Heaven Is For Real", when he had his NDE, he said there were lots of animals in Heaven.
     
  8. chilehed

    chilehed Veteran

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    This is a really important distinction that you need to understand: what you say a verse means isn't necessarily the same as what the verse actually says. No one here has disagreed with the latter, only the former.

    Look, we just had to put down a very sweet nine month old puppy. Like, two hours ago. We're heartbroken. I'd love to think that she'll be waiting for me in heaven, and it seems to me that, however wonderful heaven is, puppies couldn't do anything but make it better.

    But that doesn't mean that they will be there, or that heaven would be better with them.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
  9. DM25

    DM25 Active Member

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    That's not even funny. It seems you just don't like to be proven wrong and use memes and straw man instead of actual arguments... That looks bad on your part just FYI.
     
  10. chilehed

    chilehed Veteran

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    Actuall, that's called the ad hominem fallacy. The straw man fallacy is when you misrepresent your opponent's argument, and attack the misrepresentation.
     
  11. chilehed

    chilehed Veteran

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    Yes it was.
     
  12. NothingIsImpossible

    NothingIsImpossible Well-Known Member

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    Since most everyone has said your wrong then it makes no sense to say I did it because I was proven wrong. Also your committing Argument From Fallacy:

    Argument from fallacy is the formal fallacy of analyzing an argument and inferring that, since it contains a fallacy, its conclusion must be false. It is also called argument to logic (argumentum ad logicam), the fallacy fallacy, the fallacist's fallacy, and the bad reasons fallacy.

    Since this is my last post to you I'll say you have been given lots of good advice by people on how to act as a new christian but you continue to remain hostile and believe to be holier than everyone. Correction and reproof are part of the bible. If one cannot accept such things then you can't grow as a christian.

    I understand you have OCD and other issues. And maybe its why you are responding how you are. If this is the case perhaps it is best to respond anymore. Sometimes you just gotta say "Lets agree to disagree" and move on. Which is what I am doing now.
     
  13. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    Our hope in the resurrection of the dead and the life of the Age to Come is that God cares about His creation and isn't going to let it all fade away. Will our beloved pets be there? It's unknown. But there's nothing wrong with hope. I hope that my dog will be with us in that future world, I love her to pieces.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  14. usexpat97

    usexpat97 kewlness

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    Personally I believe that all sentient life is eternal. The body dies, but the life doesn't. It wasn't made that way. The special-case for human beings has more to do with their capacity to sin; not the eternality of their life. Sometimes with my dog, I even doubt the former.
     
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